Legal buisiness against Illegal

[Loles]

Like most i recommend to stay out of other peoples affairs. He may be operating illegally but with the blessing of the proper authority. This could backfire on you as legal people can get scrutinized more then illegals.

This is the point.

[realenglish1]

Why stir the bees nest You may found out that nest has Killer Bees

[KarenBravo]

There are some actions that you are morally obliged to dob people in for.

This ain't one of them.

[Lostpack3t]

Leave it be if you are unsure is my advice as you would not have the experience to deal with it successfully.

Business here is very very different to business 'at home' especially any business operating any kind of night life.

If it is a going concern, then I would recommend you discuss it with your BIB contacts. They can find out who is taking care of the other operation. They and your friend can not step on the wrong toes. What goes around comes around and you never know for sure who knows what (and who).

[godden]

Go on dob him in, dog eat dog.

[henksteeghsth]

Wen you talk about illegal bars, i think wen the close all the bars who don`t have the proper paperwork

there are still plenty bars to go to and those (proper) bars can make more money because the get more

people in and the prices don`t gp up

[crazykopite]

To survive in the Kingdom it is a case of keeping your head down and minding your own business by doing that you should have a long and peaceful life !!, enough said !

[ggt]

Please do report the businesses you believe to be illegal...make sure everyone knows that you turned them in...then report back to Thaivisa your experiences...

[harrry]

Before you do anything just think if you would do the same in your own country in a similar situation.

[Tony125]

MYOB Leave it be.

[KarenBravo]

I reminded him we had the same boss, and he wouldn't have a job tomorrow if he assaulted me.

Queen Betty?

[Old Croc]

I reminded him we had the same boss, and he wouldn't have a job tomorrow if he assaulted me.

Queen Betty?

I had in mind the PM.

[Noi657]

All I'll say is this.... Nobody likes a grass!

[CMCMANGOMAN]

As my old grandmother would say, mind your own bees wax kiddo.

[joshstiles]

you should screw him over.....slit his throat. It's kill or be killed in this world. go for it. or do you want us to think you are some kind of nice guy? yeah....

[Valentine]

I had a similar conversation with a guy a while ago. He has a small guest house with bar, restaurant and motorbike hire.

It's a very small operation, but the principles would be the same.

I must mention, he is single, so there is no Thai girlfriend or wife to "hide behind" in the business.

He bought the guest house but has no work permit etc etc. He lives here on a retirement visa. He employs two Thai staff full time.

He does not do obvious things that are banned for foreigners, like serve food and drinks, however, he pays utility bills, plays the sport and music he wants, pays the monthly "tea money" and he keeps "the books" and does very minor maintanence jobs Eg. changes light bulbs. He also does some shopping for the business - sometimes small things, sometimes large appliances like air conditioners.

The staff carry out his instructions and any questions from a customer or supplier is referred to him, directly.

In my opinion, he is "managing" the business, and just also happens to be the owner.

I think you would find, a very high percentage of small businesses, particularly bars, across Thailand, are "run" the same way. The owner is the manager, but sits on the customer side of the bar, instructing staff.

The guest house owner basically told me, why would he get a work permit that doesn't allow him to do anymore than what he currently does, which is all that is needed to be done by him, and which seems to be acceptable to Thai authorities? He said there would be extra costs for him and he would have to hire two more Thai staff. He said his business could not support four Thai staff.

When I put to him, "But you are obviously working, couldn't you be arrested?" His reply, with a smile, was something along the lines of, "No. The Thai's are working here. I'm just the owner keeping an eye on my business." Of course, my reply was, "Well, keeping an eye on your business is still work, isn't it?"

Anyway, the conversation went in circles for a while and never really stopped going in circles until the subject changed.

In my opinion, to the strict letter of Thai Law, anyone actively making day to day operational decisions in relation to a commercial premises in Thailand, is 'working" and those decisions could be as simple as telling a Thai staff member to "put the Singha beer on the top shelf of the fridge" or "move that table and overs over there."

So, there are thousands of "owners" working illegally here because there is no reason for them to become legal as there is no benefit for them to do so. In fact, their business would be financially penalised for them doing so and the business can not justify having four Thai staff.

So, if all of these people were to be arrested, most of the bars and small hospitality businesses would shut down, as they are not large enough to justify four Thai staff and a work permit and you can't do the work that is required in that business anyway.

In answer to your question, I would leave it be, sleep well at night being legal and concentrate my efforts on improving my business to the point where it overtakes those working illegally.

Just a small but important point NKM , a limited company requires 4 Thais , however a limited partnership only requires 2 thai staff and a small.capitalization of the buisiness.

I know a bar owner who has just this , he has a workpermit but as he employs only 2 staff and is not a co.,ltd. he must renew every his non b every 90 days.

So he has decided to follow the rules , has run the bar for many years , so it is possible to keep the buisiness running . So it kind of cancels anyones elses argument who owns / runs a small bar does it not ?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

My Co., Ltd. only has 2 Thai shareholders as the rule has been changed a couple of years ago. When I first opened I needed 7 Thais.

[N47HAN]

I had a similar conversation with a guy a while ago. He has a small guest house with bar, restaurant and motorbike hire.

It's a very small operation, but the principles would be the same.

I must mention, he is single, so there is no Thai girlfriend or wife to "hide behind" in the business.

He bought the guest house but has no work permit etc etc. He lives here on a retirement visa. He employs two Thai staff full time.

He does not do obvious things that are banned for foreigners, like serve food and drinks, however, he pays utility bills, plays the sport and music he wants, pays the monthly "tea money" and he keeps "the books" and does very minor maintanence jobs Eg. changes light bulbs. He also does some shopping for the business - sometimes small things, sometimes large appliances like air conditioners.

The staff carry out his instructions and any questions from a customer or supplier is referred to him, directly.

In my opinion, he is "managing" the business, and just also happens to be the owner.

I think you would find, a very high percentage of small businesses, particularly bars, across Thailand, are "run" the same way. The owner is the manager, but sits on the customer side of the bar, instructing staff.

The guest house owner basically told me, why would he get a work permit that doesn't allow him to do anymore than what he currently does, which is all that is needed to be done by him, and which seems to be acceptable to Thai authorities? He said there would be extra costs for him and he would have to hire two more Thai staff. He said his business could not support four Thai staff.

When I put to him, "But you are obviously working, couldn't you be arrested?" His reply, with a smile, was something along the lines of, "No. The Thai's are working here. I'm just the owner keeping an eye on my business." Of course, my reply was, "Well, keeping an eye on your business is still work, isn't it?"

Anyway, the conversation went in circles for a while and never really stopped going in circles until the subject changed.

In my opinion, to the strict letter of Thai Law, anyone actively making day to day operational decisions in relation to a commercial premises in Thailand, is 'working" and those decisions could be as simple as telling a Thai staff member to "put the Singha beer on the top shelf of the fridge" or "move that table and overs over there."

So, there are thousands of "owners" working illegally here because there is no reason for them to become legal as there is no benefit for them to do so. In fact, their business would be financially penalised for them doing so and the business can not justify having four Thai staff.

So, if all of these people were to be arrested, most of the bars and small hospitality businesses would shut down, as they are not large enough to justify four Thai staff and a work permit and you can't do the work that is required in that business anyway.

In answer to your question, I would leave it be, sleep well at night being legal and concentrate my efforts on improving my business to the point where it overtakes those working illegally.

Just a small but important point NKM , a limited company requires 4 Thais , however a limited partnership only requires 2 thai staff and a small.capitalization of the buisiness.

I know a bar owner who has just this , he has a workpermit but as he employs only 2 staff and is not a co.,ltd. he must renew every his non b every 90 days.

So he has decided to follow the rules , has run the bar for many years , so it is possible to keep the buisiness running . So it kind of cancels anyones elses argument who owns / runs a small bar does it not ?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

My Co., Ltd. only has 2 Thai shareholders as the rule has been changed a couple of years ago. When I first opened I needed 7 Thais.

Was referring to employees not shareholders.

:-)

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JeffreyWitty]

If it's foreigner run/owned - report them.

These are the guys and gals who make life worse for the legitimate types here in Thailand.

If it's a Thai owned/run illegal business - stay out of it.

Having said that - the foreigners who own/run businesses illegally in Thailand - but keep their head down and are not obvious about it - I have no problem with them. Report these guys only if it directly hurts your business.

It may sound heartless, but the more we police our own kind - the better off the legit ones of us will be.

[PiPiFFS]

If it's foreigner run/owned - report them.

These are the guys and gals who make life worse for the legitimate types here in Thailand.

If it's a Thai owned/run illegal business - stay out of it.

Having said that - the foreigners who own/run businesses illegally in Thailand - but keep their head down and are not obvious about it - I have no problem with them. Report these guys only if it directly hurts your business.

It may sound heartless, but the more we police our own kind - the better off the legit ones of us will be.

These are the guys and gals who make life worse for the legitimate types here in Thailand.

An often used piece of BS that in my experience of working here many years has never had any effect on my permit.

Could you explain just how this actually makes life worse for those taking the legal route ?

[LivinginKata]

Removing all the off topic posts.

[starkey_rich]

Just wondering .

How many Thai's do you know who work legally,pay taxes ect

[nedkellylives]

Just wondering .

How many Thai's do you know who work legally,pay taxes ect

You could ask the same question of non Thais as well

The answer would be from my experience, not many, not what they should be paying for sure

[PiPiFFS]

Most of the Thai's I know don't pay taxes. It seems the Thai's generally avoid paying as much tax as they can. Should we start reporting them to the taxman as well as the odd Farang doing the same ?

[N47HAN]

Just wondering .

How many Thai's do you know who work legally,pay taxes ect

Not really the point , they have rules for foreign buisinesses that we should abide by , some chose not too and some do.

The Thais may do as they wish and as an expat my opinion is we should never interfere , however if foreign owned and one buisiness is paying accountants , taxes , income tax etc etc it easily reaches 20 to 30 thousand baht monthly and one is not and they are competing for the same customers is the status quo in the current climate going to stay the same or is the temptation to report them getting greater ?

Thankfully for me just the nature of my buisiness it would be impossible to operate illegally , however for many buisinesses here its all too easy to operate illegally.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[LivinginKata]

Just wondering .

How many Thai's do you know who work legally,pay taxes ect

You could ask the same question of non Thais as well

The answer would be from my experience, not many, not what they should be paying for sure

Fact of the matter is that many Thais do not earn enough money to go over the threshold of the tax free limit. Not exactly sure but the tax allowance is somthing like 14,000 baht/month. Not exactly a surprise that many don't pay taxes.

[nedkellylives]

Just wondering .

How many Thai's do you know who work legally,pay taxes ect

You could ask the same question of non Thais as well

The answer would be from my experience, not many, not what they should be paying for sure

Fact of the matter is that many Thais do not earn enough money to go over the threshold of the tax free limit. Not exactly sure but the tax allowance is somthing like 14,000 baht/month. Not exactly a surprise that many don't pay taxes.

I agree as far as most Thais are concerned but i have met some who would make the average expat here look poor

, but there are a lot of non Thais who earn more than14K and do not declare it, best of luck if you can get away with it

Very easy to do here from what i have been told by people in business

Edited June 3, 2014 by nedkellylives

[NamKangMan]

Just wondering .

How many Thai's do you know who work legally,pay taxes ect

Not really the point , they have rules for foreign buisinesses that we should abide by , some chose not too and some do.

The Thais may do as they wish and as an expat my opinion is we should never interfere , however if foreign owned and one buisiness is paying accountants , taxes , income tax etc etc it easily reaches 20 to 30 thousand baht monthly and one is not and they are competing for the same customers is the status quo in the current climate going to stay the same or is the temptation to report them getting greater ?

Thankfully for me just the nature of my buisiness it would be impossible to operate illegally , however for many buisinesses here its all too easy to operate illegally.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I have no doubt the margins in business are going to get tighter and tighter here in the future, and the illegals v legals will be on an increasingly unlevel playing field in business.

You mention the "temptation to report them getting greater" but have you considered the temptation to become illegal greater than remaining legal?

[surangw]

Leave it be !

and keep in mind the persons you would be reporting this to probably are aware of the situation, and are likely to be getting a cut of the money, ( or will be once the confront the person) and you will be know to the person too.

[stevehaigh]

my friend on one of the islands has a small restaurant run by his wife (cook, clean, take orders, etc). he sometimes helps out waiting tables and brining drinks to customers. its only the 2 of them, they turnover maybe 4000/day on a good day and probably make about 1000 baht on that.

how could someone like that do it legally? whats the min cost to set up and run a legal business employing one farang here?

[NamKangMan]

my friend on one of the islands has a small restaurant run by his wife (cook, clean, take orders, etc). he sometimes helps out waiting tables and brining drinks to customers. its only the 2 of them, they turnover maybe 4000/day on a good day and probably make about 1000 baht on that.

how could someone like that do it legally? whats the min cost to set up and run a legal business employing one farang here?

Exactly. If the operation is small, there is a financial disincentive to become legal.