12 die in van, truck crash in Chaiyaphum province

[Tomtomtom69]

R.I.P. to victims and condolences to families and friends. Unfortunately not the first and not the last of tragic, fatal road accidents in Thailand.

Looking at all the mess, the lax safety regulations, the masses of unserviced and road-unworthy vehicles, the aggressive and relentless behaviour of mini van, taxi, lorry and bus drivers, the brain- and fearless crack-addicted "Wai Loon" on their pimped up Honda Clicks, bad or damaged road lighting and road markers, etc. it is no wonder that Thailand - with 72 road fatalities per day - is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to traffic death toll statistics.

As far as I can see, only education can solve the problem. In Europe, in the 70s it was quite easy - a few shocking videos and photos and people would step on the brakes. But how should such a method work with a population that is as heavily into Gore and Splatter as a kid is into candy??? If you show them a few cracked open heads of motorcyclists who refused to wear a helmet, you'll get "Oohs, and aaaahs!" instead of one of them saying, "Naa, I don't want anything like this happening to me, rather drive careful and wear a helmet." Most feel invincible and think, "Won't happen to me anyway."

Perhaps increasing fines tenfold and cracking down hard on Thai bikers and motorists, as hard as they deal with foreigners without work permit or visa, might solve the problem? But this country obviously got other priorities, i.e. showing foreigners that they are 2nd and 3rd class citizens on a daily basis, and (most importantly) opposing and demonstrating against whom or whatever is governing the country at any given moment...

I don't want to go off topic but I think you're hearing too much scaremongering about the fines for working without a work permit. Illegal workers such as Burmese, if they have 10,000 Baht as a bribe are often let off (often their employers will pay this). I'm sure that if that's the only offense (and in all likelihood most people working without a work permit are never caught anyway) they will be given this option by corrupt police/immigration officers.

It's the same on the roads. Pay a bribe and the police will quickly overlook what you just did and thus no attempt has been made to "correct" your behavior. I even heard a rumor once about jail time if you can't produce a valid driver's license. Well if that were enforced a good proportion of Thai drivers will have spent a few days in the slammer. However, clearly that was just a baseless rumor or it's never been enforced.

I know for a fact that such a rule exists in Vietnam and China for driving without a LOCAL license, meaning even a valid international or foreign permit won't be enough. Even there, most of the time you'd probably be able to get away with not having a license, especially if you can pay a bribe, which is much larger than what would be demanded in Thailand. However, those communists are much better at scaring their citizens than the Thais are. So I do believe that there have been Vietnamese and Chinese motorists (possibly including some foreigners) who've seen the inside of a local jail merely for being caught driving without a local driver license.

[Tomtomtom69]

The English in the headline would lead one to believe Vietnam is now uninhabited.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

No, but it's kinda curious to read about Vietnamese traveling in large numbers in a minivan in a rural part of Thailand as one does not normally hear much about Vietnamese in Thailand, except for the few ethnic Vietnamese (who are now Thai citizens) who live next to the Lao border or those Vietnamese on group tours to Paragon or Pattaya. Even more sad when they all die in a crash like this.

Also, it's probable that these workers were working illegally in Thailand. Thailand does not have a special category working visa for Vietnamese, unlike for Burmese, Lao and Cambodian workers. That means that unless their factory or wherever they worked had hundreds of Thais working for them, I can't imagine the 4-1 Thai-foreigner worker ratio being met, given that there were 13 Vietnamese in the van. That would have meant a total of 65 people, including 52 Thais would have had to been employed for them to be legal - however, I have seen few enterprises in Thailand with that many foreigners, particularly from one country (Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar exempted as they have different restrictions) working for one company. Typically a given Thai based enterprise with say 65 employees might hire 2-3 foreigners, perhaps 4-5 depending on the nature of the business and work tasks required, but not up to 13, even if they were legally allowed to do so.

[Tomtomtom69]

16 people in a van?

Vietnamese tend to be smaller physically than westerners. Not impossible to cram 16 in the van.

RIP to them all.

van.jpg

In Thailand 12 out of 16 die. In some countries it may have been 50% higher.

That picture of a van is from Cambodia. Vietnamese interestingly do NOT travel on top of vehicles, or even at the back of pickup trucks. They will only travel inside a vehicle, such as a van. Those are things you'll see in Cambodia, Myanmar, India or even Thailand, but you'll never see in Vietnam. You might see 7 people on a motorcycle in rural Vietnam, but you won't see even one person outside on the back of a truck.

[PermaNewb]

To all you folks advocating stricter laws and enforcement, the government and police doing more to save lives, adoption of American or UK or European standards...why do you live in Thailand? Why did you stay here after you visited? Have you forgotten what makes Thailand so wonderful?

You people scare me, it seems like you want to ruin the Thailand that I love...I love the freedom of driving unlicensed, the "fast as you dare" speed limits, the freedom of choice and the knowledge that my choices are directly responsible for any outcome...are you so afraid of being responsible for yourselves that you want to create the same freedomless nanny states that you emigrated from?

I drive exactly like the bulk of Thai drivers out there...as fast as I want, where I want, when I want and how I want...except I do it with awareness...the fact that I can do this without having to be on constant vigil for police is something that I value greatly and wouldn't give it up for anything...

people like you provide me with far more fear than any Thai driver ever could...I've learned to fear those who have no sense of personal responsibility, no ability to make a conscious decision with regards their own personal safety and pass that responsibility to others and then cry bloody murder when they get hurt...

grow up!, be responsible for yourself...and by all means, stop attempting to remove my freedom because of your own inadequacies...

I drive the way I drive and if I die as a result of it, it will be my own fault, not the police nor the governments...and I can live with that!!

[peterpaintpot]

grow up!, be responsible for yourself...and by all means, stop attempting to remove my freedom because of your own inadequacies...

I drive the way I drive and if I die as a result of it, it will be my own fault, not the police nor the governments...and I can live with that!!

This is a typical Thai attitude, Blow you Jack - I'm all right! The reason so many posters despair of the carnage on the roads here is not because we hate Thailand and the Thais, but because we know that we have a responsibility to others, not just ourselves.

You grow up - you irresponsible Git!

[Munger]

3,500 People die everyday on the worlds roads and 50 Million people are injured every year.

To hear ThaiVisa members , one would think accidents only happen in Thailand, more die in USA than Thailand.

USA, with all the brilliant drivers, harsh policing, great roads, hard driving tests, stiff penalties for drink driving, speeding etc, still they rack up horrendous figures, mostly caused by Alcohol and speeding.

Just a reality check lads.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2012/may/02/traffic-accidents-biggest-killer-young-people

Why do the Thai apologists try to defend all the road accidents / deaths, when even the Thais dont want to apologise for stupid driving ?

[PermaNewb]

grow up!, be responsible for yourself...and by all means, stop attempting to remove my freedom because of your own inadequacies...

I drive the way I drive and if I die as a result of it, it will be my own fault, not the police nor the governments...and I can live with that!!

This is a typical Thai attitude, Blow you Jack - I'm all right! The reason so many posters despair of the carnage on the roads here is not because we hate Thailand and the Thais, but because we know that we have a responsibility to others, not just ourselves.

You grow up - you irresponsible Git!

You have no responsibility to others you mingling infant!!

It's that attitude that has made me leave my home country to seek freedom elsewhere...so I come to Thailand and find the personal freedom that every human being should crave only to find you...concerned with my safety to the point you don't want me to do anything that might get me hurt...that you cry out for more rules...more regulations...so as to save me and the poor little ignorant Thais from ourselves...

not content with destroying any semblance of happiness or freedom in the first world you descend on the third world with your superiority complex ready to fix everything you see wrong for the betterment of others...

The only thing wrong that needs fixing is your myopia. Your belief that my life is any concern of yours is simply that...your belief

so kindly go fix your own life and leave mine the hell alone...

[starkey_rich]

oh my ..... what a tragedy .... another one in the LOS , when will it end ?

Don't worry the new tougher driving test came in on June 1st.It's going to stop all the moronic drivers on the road.

It must be the 12 hours driving tuition and the extra questions that is going to do it.

Pathetic.

R.I.P to all who died

[Banzai99]

3,500 People die everyday on the worlds roads and 50 Million people are injured every year.

To hear ThaiVisa members , one would think accidents only happen in Thailand, more die in USA than Thailand.

USA, with all the brilliant drivers, harsh policing, great roads, hard driving tests, stiff penalties for drink driving, speeding etc, still they rack up horrendous figures, mostly caused by Alcohol and speeding.

Just a reality check lads.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2012/may/02/traffic-accidents-biggest-killer-young-people

Why do the Thai apologists try to defend all the road accidents / deaths, when even the Thais dont want to apologise for stupid driving ?

Welcome to a developing nation.

[Munger]

3,500 People die everyday on the worlds roads and 50 Million people are injured every year.

To hear ThaiVisa members , one would think accidents only happen in Thailand, more die in USA than Thailand.

USA, with all the brilliant drivers, harsh policing, great roads, hard driving tests, stiff penalties for drink driving, speeding etc, still they rack up horrendous figures, mostly caused by Alcohol and speeding.

Just a reality check lads.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2012/may/02/traffic-accidents-biggest-killer-young-people

Why do the Thai apologists try to defend all the road accidents / deaths, when even the Thais dont want to apologise for stupid driving ?

Welcome to a developing nation.

That is not a answer to the question. So I will ask again, "why do the Thai apologists try to defend all the road accidents / deaths, when even the Thais dont want to apologise for stupid driving "?

[leggo]

Everybody keeps saying how wonderful the new leaders of this country are ! Well maybe they might think about the law - and by that I mean the everyday laws that affect every day people ! We'll take the new bus laws for example -anyone out there noticed buses being equipped with seat belts, anybody noticed vans driving within the speedlimit, anyone noticed pick ups actually sticking to their lanes!?? Until basic law and order is restored you haven't got my support! It would seem this country is great at making laws and awful at enforcing them!!!

Actually yes, I rode an inter-city bus operated by a private bus operator about 2 weeks ago; the driver walked up & down the aisle requesting everybody fasten their seatbelts, and then checked to see if they'd done so, BEFORE the bus pulled out. 'Don't know if that's the beginning of a trend or not.

I know there are some violators, but the curfew seems to be, by & large, getting enforced (for businesses at least, if not so much for people on the street). There's another thread here somewhere about bar OPENING hours being enforced in Pattaya.

I really doubt Gen Prayuth really cares much about your assessment of his effectiveness in enforcing the laws. Very bold of you to take him on here about it though. 'Luck with that...

Very bold my ass and as to taking him on here about it I think you might be exaggerating just a little bit!

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Banzai99]

3,500 People die everyday on the worlds roads and 50 Million people are injured every year.

To hear ThaiVisa members , one would think accidents only happen in Thailand, more die in USA than Thailand.

USA, with all the brilliant drivers, harsh policing, great roads, hard driving tests, stiff penalties for drink driving, speeding etc, still they rack up horrendous figures, mostly caused by Alcohol and speeding.

Just a reality check lads.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2012/may/02/traffic-accidents-biggest-killer-young-people

Why do the Thai apologists try to defend all the road accidents / deaths, when even the Thais dont want to apologise for stupid driving ?

Welcome to a developing nation.

That is not a answer to the question. So I will ask again, "why do the Thai apologists try to defend all the road accidents / deaths, when even the Thais dont want to apologise for stupid driving "?

What was the question again ?

[edwinchester]

grow up!, be responsible for yourself...and by all means, stop attempting to remove my freedom because of your own inadequacies...

I drive the way I drive and if I die as a result of it, it will be my own fault, not the police nor the governments...and I can live with that!!

This is a typical Thai attitude, Blow you Jack - I'm all right! The reason so many posters despair of the carnage on the roads here is not because we hate Thailand and the Thais, but because we know that we have a responsibility to others, not just ourselves.

You grow up - you irresponsible Git!

You have no responsibility to others you mingling infant!!

It's that attitude that has made me leave my home country to seek freedom elsewhere...so I come to Thailand and find the personal freedom that every human being should crave only to find you...concerned with my safety to the point you don't want me to do anything that might get me hurt...that you cry out for more rules...more regulations...so as to save me and the poor little ignorant Thais from ourselves...

not content with destroying any semblance of happiness or freedom in the first world you descend on the third world with your superiority complex ready to fix everything you see wrong for the betterment of others...

The only thing wrong that needs fixing is your myopia. Your belief that my life is any concern of yours is simply that...your belief

so kindly go fix your own life and leave mine the hell alone...

Unfortunately the personal 'freedom' that you crave results in far too many preventable accidents. My wifes brother was killed by a drunk driver who paid off the police to avoid any responsibility for his actions.

[PermaNewb]

Thailand is what it is...you can either accept it or you can bang on about how you know how much better it could be on an anonymous internet forum that very few Thais actually even know about...

which one makes more sense?

of course there is a third option if it's all too much for one...one can leave and go back to that glorious utopia one came from...you know that place that one uses as a reference when casting judgement on these ignorant little brown people...

Edited June 3, 2014 by PermaNewb

[edwinchester]

Thailand is what it is...you can either accept it or you can bang on about how you know how much better it could be on an anonymous internet forum that very few Thais actually even know about...

which one makes more sense?

of course there is a third option if it's all too much for one...one can leave and go back to that glorious utopia one came from...you know that place that one uses as a reference when casting judgement on these ignorant little brown people...

So where do you suggest my Thai wife and parents in law go? They hate the fact their brother/sons killer was not bought to justice.

[gcbruk]

I had to take a visa run minivan last weekend. Driver certainly overdosing on M150's. Didn't think we would make it at times but... well we did. A twelve hour drive is going to push anyone to the limits. I once did one much longer than that but not day after day after day...

[PermaNewb]

that's their problem isn't it? it's their country, if enough of them want to change it then it will change, if not, then it won't...

but I fail to see how you plan on affecting the situation by posting on this forum...I fail to see the impact of hundreds of people who can't even vote, own property, conduct business or achieve permanent residency here denigrating their hosts day in and day out...

I mean how's that working for ya?

[Banzai99]

that's their problem isn't it? it's their country, if enough of them want to change it then it will change, if not, then it won't...

but I fail to see how you plan on affecting the situation by posting on this forum...I fail to see the impact of hundreds of people who can't even vote, own property, conduct business or achieve permanent residency here denigrating their hosts day in and day out...

I mean how's that working for ya?

[edwinchester]

that's their problem isn't it? it's their country, if enough of them want to change it then it will change, if not, then it won't...

but I fail to see how you plan on affecting the situation by posting on this forum...I fail to see the impact of hundreds of people who can't even vote, own property, conduct business or achieve permanent residency here denigrating their hosts day in and day out...

I mean how's that working for ya?

Yeah, losing a son who clung onto life for a week in icu certainly was their problem as you put it. As was the hospital bill they were presented with. But then again somebody was free to drink drive so it's ok.

Freedom is fine if there is zero impact on others lives but unfortunately recklessness often does impact others with tragic results as my Thai family found out to their cost.

I post on here about my wifes experience as she wants people to know what happened to her family. You should appreciate that as it is called freedom of speech.

[PermaNewb]

you're confusing issues mate...I'm not here to tell you you cannot post whatever you like on this forum...I'm just attempting to understand why so many of the post I read on this forum are denigrating the hosts of the country that the majority of those same posters have chosen to call home.

this forum reads like a prison complaint board...you'd think most of these people are being held here against their will...why all the hate?

[3R1C]

grow up!, be responsible for yourself...and by all means, stop attempting to remove my freedom because of your own inadequacies...

I drive the way I drive and if I die as a result of it, it will be my own fault, not the police nor the governments...and I can live with that!!

This is a typical Thai attitude, Blow you Jack - I'm all right! The reason so many posters despair of the carnage on the roads here is not because we hate Thailand and the Thais, but because we know that we have a responsibility to others, not just ourselves.

You grow up - you irresponsible Git!

You have no responsibility to others you mingling infant!!

It's that attitude that has made me leave my home country to seek freedom elsewhere...so I come to Thailand and find the personal freedom that every human being should crave only to find you...concerned with my safety to the point you don't want me to do anything that might get me hurt...that you cry out for more rules...more regulations...so as to save me and the poor little ignorant Thais from ourselves...

not content with destroying any semblance of happiness or freedom in the first world you descend on the third world with your superiority complex ready to fix everything you see wrong for the betterment of others...

The only thing wrong that needs fixing is your myopia. Your belief that my life is any concern of yours is simply that...your belief

so kindly go fix your own life and leave mine the hell alone...

Brilliant! I will shout you a beer anytime. You get it. Enjoy your freedoms here. Long may they last.

I find Peter-P-Pots comments typical of the indoor-lads who live here because they can no longer enjoy life in their own over-regulated home country, Which in no way deters them from knowing what is best for this country....despite the fact that they "The reason so many posters despair of the carnage on the roads here is not because we hate Thailand and the Thais". Yeah, a freudian slip. He actually did say he hates Thais and Thailand, but that fact is not the reason why he despairs of road carnage...

There were some solid recommendations put forward in this thread. Safety cutoff valves are routinely not installed. That ought to be enforced rigidly at the LTO inspection lanes. Speed-Limiters are another good idea for public transport vehicles, and again could be enforced in vehicle inspections. The comment about a flight-recorder to document over-the-road driver hours was good also, and there are mobile phone apps which cost next to nothing that use the GPS tracking of the phone to log the driver's whereabouts on a map. The company could of course try to subvert these records in the event of a mishap, but the app can be mandatorily sourced from the Ministry of Trans offices, and thus encrypted by the government to deter tampering. Penalties for violations should be something like - government seizure of the vehicle, and a raid on the company fleet, with seizure of all offending vehicles. Money talks.

What will never work: Anything the police must enforce on the road. Anything that requires driver education. Any policy shift that appeals to commercial operators to drive less or take fewer passengers.

I dont know about the rest of you guys, but there is no way I get into a compressed gas vehicle in this country for any reason, after reading this thread. As far as I am concerned this was a valuable heads up.

[edwinchester]

you're confusing issues mate...I'm not here to tell you you cannot post whatever you like on this forum...I'm just attempting to understand why so many of the post I read on this forum are denigrating the hosts of the country that the majority of those same posters have chosen to call home.

this forum reads like a prison complaint board...you'd think most of these people are being held here against their will...why all the hate?

I find the constant denigrating tiresome too so we agree on that but as I accept that my own actions can impact on others we'll have to disagree on an individuals right to enjoy absolute freedom.

[boomerangutang]

16 people in a van?

There are vans which shuttle passengers between Chiang Rai and Mai Sai, about a 1 hour trip. They don't leave the station until fully packed. I prefer the rickety slower bus, as there's a bit of room to move, and if there's a crash, there's a bit better chance of surviving.

[PermaNewb]

fair enough...but I'll still kick you in the nuts if I hear you screaming for more regulations in Thailand...

if everyone agreed with everyone on everything I'd shoot myself...how boring would that be?...

[MikeOboe57]

Great, 14 killed in one single accident and someone praises this country because here you can drive like a brainless loonie and get away with it.

[PermaNewb]

Great, 14 killed in one single accident and someone praises this country because here you can drive like a brainless loonie and get away with it.

what an ill thought out post...you probably thought it was all clever like...

Seeing as Thailand has one of the worst road fatality records in the world it would stand to reason that the brainless loonies are indeed not getting away with it...

evidently some of the brainless loonies are not driving around Thailand, but are in fact posting nonsense on this very forum...

Edited June 3, 2014 by PermaNewb

[MikeOboe57]

Great, 14 killed in one single accident and someone praises this country because here you can drive like a brainless loonie and get away with it.

what an ill thought out post...you probably thought it was all clever like...

Seeing as Thailand has one of the worst road fatality records in the world it would stand to reason that the brainless loonies are indeed not getting away with it...

evidently some of the brainless loonies are not driving around Thailand, but are in fact posting nonsense on this very forum...

So you didn´t write this:

it seems like you want to ruin the Thailand that I love...I love the freedom of driving unlicensed, the "fast as you dare" speed limits, [...]

I drive exactly like the bulk of Thai drivers out there...as fast as I want, where I want, when I want and how I want...except I do it with awareness...the fact that I can do this without having to be on constant vigil for police is something that I value greatly and wouldn't give it up for anything...

Some time ago a girl also loved "the freedom of driving unlicensed" and "the ´fast as you dare´ speed limits". She killed 9 people in a minivan with her Honda and got away with a 2 yr suspended sentence. Another guy also enjoyed the "fast as you dare" speed limits and not "having to be on constant vigil for police". As a result one officer ended up in the radiator of his Ferrari. After paying a token sum to the victim´s family he just left the country - end of story. And there are similar stories all over the internet.

I really don´t care if you splatter your brain on some Thai road because you drove "as fast as I want, where I want, when I want and how I want", However as there is a high probability that you will be taking some innocent third party with you I consider your post disturbing and your proclaimed driving style reckless and irresponsible.

But I could of course be wrong and you are the reincarnation of Jochen Rindt and Ayrton Senna combined and rightfully have nothing but mild contempt for our mediocre driving skills.

[PermaNewb]

Nice try mate...but if I recall she was texting and he was drunk and high on coke...

I remember back when I was an idiot in my home country and denigrating the drivers of Asia...you know the usual numpty thought process...Those Chinese can't drive...after spending 7 years driving in China and now 5 years driving in Thailand I realized who it is that can't drive...

In the west we drive fast as we believe our rules and regulations will save us...most western drivers are asleep at the wheel, practically unconscious and blissfully unaware of what's going on around them...we don't slow down at crossroads as we believe the other guy will follow the rules and not pull out in front of us...that unwavering trust is what causes most accidents...how many times have you heard the excuse for a collision in the west "I didn't even see him".

The average speed is considerably less in Asia, sure there is the odd numpty who drives like a maniac(like me) but the bulk of drivers here drive much slower than we do back home. Trust me, I know as most Thai drivers drive me crazy with how slowly they drive. The difference is that there are no rules here to trust, anything and everything can occur on these roads and that makes your average Asian driver about 10 times more aware of what's happening around him than your average western driver.

An intelligent person will observe his surrounding and attempt to understand where he is and adapt accordingly...your average idiot will observe his surroundings and if what he sees doesn't fit with what he knows he'll pull his hair out trying to change it to suit his needs...or worse yet will continue to operate with the mindset that the whole world works the same as it does where he comes from...

The latter is evidenced by the number of falang killed on the roads of Phuket every year...but somehow the Thais get blamed for this...<deleted>?!

In the west the onus is on the other guy to follow the rules so we don't have an accident...In Asia the onus is on me to avoid a collision...so if I come here with my western mindset and attempt to apply it to Thai roads, I shouldn't expect to last 3 minutes out there...

it is what it is...adapt or die...up to you...

[Clutch]

When I have to unfortunate task of catching one of these death traps I prefer to sit in the front so I can give a backhander when the driver nods off.

[PermaNewb]

that makes a lot more sense than stewing in the back taking notes so you can post about on this forum later...