Sympathy Or Their Own Fault?

[fakename]

Why dont the guy offer his services to the Merc owner, to pay off the debt? Im sure someone just gave him 8k, he would have a party, be drunk for the rest of the week, then be back in the same situation. Maybe a negative way of looking at things, but thats how I have seen things here for 25 years.

[Thai Travel Bug]

My friend, if you can afford it, give it to him, and if you can really afford it, double it up, just as a once off. It will cleanse the soul, and it will make another's life feel a little more worthwhile. Sometimes we all need a little luck, and it sounds as though this man and his family do need a little luck. If they are salt of the earth, and not purveyors of cheap whisky , why not. If you can that is...

[rhodie]

What will happen if he can't pay? Will he go to jail?

Keep an eye on things and help in that case. After it blows over, see if you can help the guy in some way.

You obviously feel he deserves a bit of luck and I am sure it will make you feel good providing it, as well as, as you say, "making up for some of your sins".

Good luck! tough call.

[belg]

just a question: do you watch them all day long, that you see, they don't eat lunch or dinner or whatever? thais can eat lunch / dinner at very odd times

what you can do is : SPONSOR A SNIP FOR THE GARDENER

64 and with young children and no money !

Edited June 3, 2014 by belg

[TTom911]

OP, I haven't read all these posts because they are many, but if it hasn't been mentioned already...I would give the payment directly to the owner of the Benz and make him sign an affidavit saying that the debt has been paid in full for the benefit of the gardener, then ask the Benz owner to not reveal who paid.

Matthew 6 says: 1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

This way you can make merit (Buddhism) or store up riches in Heaven (Christian)...or whatever else might be motivating you to give, and the gardener will not be back knocking on your door looking for another handout.

Wrong approach to my humble opinion:

- don't patronise the farmer, allow him to save face and "settle his own affairs". Give him anonymously and if he messes it up then you can't do anything about it, it is his very own choice, even a Thai poor farmer is still a grownup and can handle this himself, if you give him the means. Charity is not about getting involved in other peoples business, it is about "helping them to help themselves"

- in short: help (quietly), if you feel like, but DO NOT (!!!) GET INVOLVED otherwise for more reasons than would fit on this page...... !!!

[Somsrisonphimai]

I must say that from a retribution perspective I am thinking that the 8,000THB could cover a lot of my sins over the last 10 years in Thailand!!

On the other hand I don't want the guy thinking that this piece of "good luck" warrants his poor choices in life and then he just carries on being irresponsible.

To be fair I had thought of giving him money in an anonymous way long before this happened becuase its clear they are desperate for money and he is actually a 'salt of the earth" type of guy and always cheerful and friendly despite his lot in life.

Driving a Mercedes Benz does not mean he/she is debt free; that is why 8,000 baht was requested. It is quite possibly that the baby was unplanned and it happened so they must take care of the baby.

OP, if the money is no issue to you, please do help the family. It will benefit you in the future.

[POSA290103]

I must say that from a retribution perspective I am thinking that the 8,000THB could cover a lot of my sins over the last 10 years in Thailand!!

On the other hand I don't want the guy thinking that this piece of "good luck" warrants his poor choices in life and then he just carries on being irresponsible.

To be fair I had thought of giving him money in an anonymous way long before this happened becuase its clear they are desperate for money and he is actually a 'salt of the earth" type of guy and always cheerful and friendly despite his lot in life.

For starters, we've all done stupid and foolish things. Surviving these events should teach us something. Not all of us learn the first time around but the memories are always there. I've been helped out of some of the messes I made in life by others. While it made the recovery quicker and less painful, I do remember the consequences of my actions. Hopefully this person learns the lesson this event is teaching him.

It sure does seem to be making you think! That's probably a good thing ( remembering our sins).

The fact that you took the time to put this question out here for comment makes me believe that you want to help. If you decide to give your assistance to this man I'd bet that YOU will get more out of this than him. If the money isn't a big inconvenience to you I say,"why not". Actually, the more difficult it is, the bigger the reward.

I've been scammed and conned not only here but everywhere I've traveled, worked or lived. Experience has kept the damage to a minimum. Too many people focus on the negative and seem to disregard anything good. If I line up all the people I've met in Thailand, the good defintiely outnumber the bad. We have to remember that there are lousy people out there but don't let it stop you from meeting or helping the good ones. This applies to everywhere not just Thailand!

If you want to stay anonymous, you might think about dealing with the car owner directly and ask to keep this between the two of you.

For me the choice is easy and I think you will find it that way also, once you make up your mind. Remember, this isn't about him now; you made it about you. Great topic, Thanks!

[Georgehn]

If you witnessed the accident, that is one thing. 8K baht is probably the deductible or part of it, but it really doesn't amount to much damage at all. If you can find the Mercedes driver, offer 3k baht or half of what they are asking for and explain why you want to do it, and if they laugh you off, walk away from the whole event. No loss, no harm done. You can then perhaps offer the gardener a job to do your lawn care and help him out by paying more than a reasonable labor wage so he can pay off the claim a bit at a time. If he doesn't go for it, then you probably sniffed out a con. Honestly, driving a Mercedes without insurance in Thailand is stupidity.

If you didn't witness the accident, well, then you can still offer him some menial job so that at least he and his family doesn't go hungry. I supported a girl friend and her family a few years back. I don't do that anymore, but I still remain friends with her and her family. It's a hard thing to see, but it's a good thing to know some people really have a soul regardless of the situation.

[Neeeko]

If you have the money to spare, I would do it.

[marko kok prong]

So he had the baby because his mothers ghost told him to,that's about as Thai as you can get.

[Kondiao]

If you are able and willing to help - just because it is the right thing to do then you should do it. Not for the sake of making merit or good karma - not thinking about that rich pubis losing face and retaliating against you or the poor family becoming eternally indebted to you. Considering all the input and judgemental comments that readers have taken the time to share with you. and then ignoring them and making your own decision, and not with the intent to make this old poor man's life right - being aware enough to realize that what you are doing is just an act of human kindness - because you are there. Simply pick up an envelope lying on the street and tell him he must have dropped it; get the man's bank account number and push the buttons on the ATM machine to move B 8,000 to his account - whatever - then let it go.

[ableguy]

Forget it the Benz owners insurance will take care of it, if he does not have first class insurance his problem.

Guarantee the Gardner has none.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

A fight between the heart and the mind.......its your own call.

Who is the daddy of the one year old?

[Naam]

Most likely they are both scamming you. Amazing Gullible Farangs

This is almost certainly true. The penniless gardener and the rich Benz driver got together one afternoon over a beer and thought "what is the best way to scam 8,000 baht out of that stupid farang across the road?" an they came up with this. You have to admire the Thais for their genius.

one has to admire a poor little man like you for coming up with crooked thoughts.

Yeah, you are going to have to run that by me again, cos I haven't a clue what you are talking about

that you don't have a clue is quite obvious

[thhMan]

Ever thought that the Merc owner maybe just as destitute as the Gardner?

I know of a few people who have "things" but not a cent in the bank. I think it was last year a farang and his wife committed suicide on just those grounds.

Just because you drive a merc, doesnt mean you can afford it...

But aside from that, I would go talk to the merc owner and make a private gesture to cover the debt and then let the merc owner talk to the gardner and dissolve the issue.

The issue for you then... will you feel guilty the next time something like this happens and you choose NOT to involve yourself?

[Naam]

A fight between the heart and the mind.......its your own call.

Who is the daddy of the one year old?

that's none of your business nor should you envy the 63 year old father.

[Naam]

Ever thought that the Merc owner maybe just as destitute as the Gardner?

I know of a few people who have "things" but not a cent in the bank. I think it was last year a farang and his wife committed suicide on just those grounds.

Just because you drive a merc, doesnt mean you can afford it...

But aside from that, I would go talk to the merc owner and make a private gesture to cover the debt and then let the merc owner talk to the gardner and dissolve the issue.

The issue for you then... will you feel guilty the next time something like this happens and you choose NOT to involve yourself?

Ever thought that the Merc owner maybe just as destitute as the Gardner?

yeah right! now i know why my wife is destitute

[BrooklynNY]

If you want to financially cover the punitive damage for the poor man, you make sure that the Mercedes car owner does not know at all about this otherwise they will ask for more from the man which means that you would have to give him more. Be cautious about this.

[oldsailor35]

I would have thought the drivers insurance would cover this kind of accident.

Does this destitute guy own any land, like the land he lives on ?

I know of and have heard of people who live a very moderate existence in small wooden houses built on land which would sell for several million dollars at today's prices.

I am sure that the Mercedes insurance will cover the damage, which is probably about Bht 2000! But this woman is typically hi-so Thai and needs the money for her next shopping trip. Tell her to go get stuffed.

[kennypowers]

Your first instinct was one of human kindness and compassion for another human being, not learned capitalist fascism. Yes he had another kid at 62, but are we to punish him further for being uneducated and misguided?

Of course the Benz owner will take the money, and charge interest on late payments. Most likely he'll borrow from a loan shark and have sleepless nights for the next 3 years. The Benz owner will revel in the lottery of life and assert his higher class position, relishing the opportunity to put the boot in on the poor, brown-skinned gardener.

I've done similar acts of kindness here, and do smaller acts regularly. It doesn't deprive my family, as one poster suggested. No, it rewards us with love, happiness and positivity.

How about this, do you have a PayPal account? We all donate 50 Baht each. It will take 160 people - so easy for ThaiVisa. You then pay the Benz owner directly and tell the gardener it's a present from all of us at ThaiVisa. Who knows, this could be the start of something wonderful. I'm happy to make the first small donation.

Come on guys, 50 Baht! That's not even the cost of a beer!

Let's do it and make this guy's day.

What do you say?

[eastcanje]

I must say that from a retribution perspective I am thinking that the 8,000THB could cover a lot of my sins over the last 10 years in Thailand!!

On the other hand I don't want the guy thinking that this piece of "good luck" warrants his poor choices in life and then he just carries on being irresponsible.

To be fair I had thought of giving him money in an anonymous way long before this happened becuase its clear they are desperate for money and he is actually a 'salt of the earth" type of guy and always cheerful and friendly despite his lot in life.

In your place, I would go ahead and give it to him, whether anonymously, or not. You'll feel good about it, and obviously, you have compassion on this family.

[POSA290103]

Your first instinct was one of human kindness and compassion for another human being, not learned capitalist fascism. Yes he had another kid at 62, but are we to punish him further for being uneducated and misguided?

Of course the Benz owner will take the money, and charge interest on late payments. Most likely he'll borrow from a loan shark and have sleepless nights for the next 3 years. The Benz owner will revel in the lottery of life and assert his higher class position, relishing the opportunity to put the boot in on the poor, brown-skinned gardener.

I've done similar acts of kindness here, and do smaller acts regularly. It doesn't deprive my family, as one poster suggested. No, it rewards us with love, happiness and positivity.

How about this, do you have a PayPal account? We all donate 50 Baht each. It will take 160 people - so easy for ThaiVisa. You then pay the Benz owner directly and tell the gardener it's a present from all of us at ThaiVisa. Who knows, this could be the start of something wonderful. I'm happy to make the first small donation.

Come on guys, 50 Baht! That's not even the cost of a beer!

Let's do it and make this guy's day.

What do you say?

Nice thought Kenny but it would never work on this site or any other for that matter. Bowerboy brought this up and it's up for him to decide how he deals with this.

[bowerboy]

Thanks for all the thoughts and comments guys and it does demonstrate the 50/50 tough call nature of the problem.

I will wait for the further update today on the situation and if it is really as bad as it seems for the Gardener then I will give him the money...

I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter if he uses it to pat the actual debt so long as he doesn't spend it on something useless.

[kennypowers]

Your first instinct was one of human kindness and compassion for another human being, not learned capitalist fascism. Yes he had another kid at 62, but are we to punish him further for being uneducated and misguided?

Of course the Benz owner will take the money, and charge interest on late payments. Most likely he'll borrow from a loan shark and have sleepless nights for the next 3 years. The Benz owner will revel in the lottery of life and assert his higher class position, relishing the opportunity to put the boot in on the poor, brown-skinned gardener.

I've done similar acts of kindness here, and do smaller acts regularly. It doesn't deprive my family, as one poster suggested. No, it rewards us with love, happiness and positivity.

How about this, do you have a PayPal account? We all donate 50 Baht each. It will take 160 people - so easy for ThaiVisa. You then pay the Benz owner directly and tell the gardener it's a present from all of us at ThaiVisa. Who knows, this could be the start of something wonderful. I'm happy to make the first small donation.

Come on guys, 50 Baht! That's not even the cost of a beer!

Let's do it and make this guy's day.

What do you say?

Nice thought Kenny but it would never work on this site or any other for that matter. Bowerboy brought this up and it's up for him to decide how he deals with this.

Have we all really become that selfish that we couldn't use a little kindness and our supposed intelligence to collaborate. Well, in that case, post this story on a crowdfunding website and send me the link to donate.

[mrowe1973]

My personal opinion is that anyone that drives a Mercedes Benz in Thialand is a complete idiot. Maybe they deserve to be hit and their car damaged. I would wait for them to sort it out and then give the poor man's faimly some money.

[maximillian]

I must say that from a retribution perspective I am thinking that the 8,000THB could cover a lot of my sins over the last 10 years in Thailand!!

On the other hand I don't want the guy thinking that this piece of "good luck" warrants his poor choices in life and then he just carries on being irresponsible.

To be fair I had thought of giving him money in an anonymous way long before this happened becuase its clear they are desperate for money and he is actually a 'salt of the earth" type of guy and always cheerful and friendly despite his lot in life.

Wouldn't suggest to give him money. Not 8k in one sum.

But what can be wrong, giving them some food, fruit and clothing for the kids ?

Little by little. Let your Thai wife do it.

The Benz owner can see to himself how he can get 8k out of this poor fellow.

PaullyW:

Guys like you make me want to vomit.

[POSA290103]

Thanks for all the thoughts and comments guys and it does demonstrate the 50/50 tough call nature of the problem.

I will wait for the further update today on the situation and if it is really as bad as it seems for the Gardener then I will give him the money...

I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter if he uses it to pat the actual debt so long as he doesn't spend it on something useless.

bowerboy, If you give him the money it doesn't matter what HE does with it. You stepped up to the plate and did your part. "Feel good" about your act of kindness. As I wrote earlier, "it's about you now" not him. All the best Brother.

[kingstonkid]

This might sound crazy but why not offer the family jobs. The gardner could do any outside work for you the daughter could clean your house.

Just make it a part of the deal that the kids have to go to school every day.

That after school or on weekends she comes and cleans the house or does odd jobs like laundry.

Do not pay them more than the mother is making though or you may end up supporting them full time

A gift of 8k baht really will not help solve their problem as it will go to a guy that surely does not need it.

I think if you do this it will not only help the family but also if you talk to others like yourself you may be able to get the old guy back on his feet. Also the kids will learn how to work for money and not be bums.

[maximillian]

My friend, if you can afford it, give it to him, and if you can really afford it, double it up, just as a once off. It will cleanse the soul, and it will make another's life feel a little more worthwhile. Sometimes we all need a little luck, and it sounds as though this man and his family do need a little luck. If they are salt of the earth, and not purveyors of cheap whisky , why not. If you can that is...

I cannot agree to this. Imagine, giving him something like 16k, what he might do with it.

As I know Thais, they want to spend the money as quick as possible. They cannot plan for the future.

He might just buy booze, a new TV set or something useless.

Give him things like food, clothes for the kids, school uniform or such.

[Banzai99]

I would do it, Karma will pay you back big time.

There is too much selfishness in this world as it is, I think we all in Thailand own something back as what a great place to live and enjoy and we are getting it for 20% the cost of our own country.

You can't be saying things like that on ThaiVisa, you'll have the perpetual moaners up in arms !