Paying your bank to allow you to deposit your money – will you do it?

[midas]

One to be avoided

RBS could fail due to ‘£100bn black hole’ - with British taxpayers in line to lose their entire £45bn stake

“The result has been that, at the time of writing, RBS is probably a worse bank than it was under Fred Goodwin,” Fraser said. “If the right moves are now made, RBS could become a great bank again. If they’re not, I doubt it will even exist in 10 years’ time.

“Whatever happens, it now seems impossible that British taxpayers will ever see a return on their £45.5bn investment in the bank,” he writes in the book.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/rbs-could-fail-due-to-100bn-black-hole--with-british-taxpayers-in-line-to-lose-their-entire-45bn-stake-9466823.html

Edited June 10, 2014 by midas

[midas]

I'm going to buy a mattress with a zipper and zipper lock...a mattress stuffed full of cash gives you a good night's sleep until the burglar wakes you up demanding the key to the mattress lock.

Pib... I have copy rights on this idea of keeping your money under the mattress few days

ago, next time it will cost you royalties.... :-)

Someone has beaten you to it

http://www.cajamicolchon.com/

[midas]

German man locked up over HVB bank allegations may have been telling truth

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/28/gustl-mollath-hsv-claims-fraud

[Naam]

I waited in a Bangkok Bank branch in Pattaya recently to deposit 15.000 Baht in to my account which is not in Pattaya, they then wanted 30 Baht for depositing this money, I told them to get lost, and paid it into my local bank when I got home.

It was not the money, it was the principal. I hate those thieving banks.

right you are! i'm sure your principle gave the thieves a sleepless night

If everyone else had the same principle, it might do something, just like refusing to use your foreign bank card to withdraw money from a thieving Thai bank, and getting it transferred instead.

the principle of a bank is... not to be a welfare institution providing services for free.

[NoshowJones]

I waited in a Bangkok Bank branch in Pattaya recently to deposit 15.000 Baht in to my account which is not in Pattaya, they then wanted 30 Baht for depositing this money, I told them to get lost, and paid it into my local bank when I got home.

It was not the money, it was the principal. I hate those thieving banks.

right you are! i'm sure your principle gave the thieves a sleepless night

If everyone else had the same principle, it might do something, just like refusing to use your foreign bank card to withdraw money from a thieving Thai bank, and getting it transferred instead.

the principle of a bank is... not to be a welfare institution providing services for free.

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

[fletchsmile]

Hypothetically speaking if that came in for Thailand:

A cashier's cheque for a large amount payable and crossed to yourself would maybe be a good option, put in a safe for just under 6 months at a time

For me the answer would be yes I'd hold some cash in a bank for safety and convenience. However, I'd be more likely to invest the rest, which is after all what they would be trying to encourage

Cheers

Fletch

[Naam]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

[NoshowJones]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

Banks in the UK and Thailand are nothing but huge rip off merchants, and when I deal with banks, insurance companies etc, I expect fairness, I am not looking for things for free or welfare services, I don't expect to be ripped off, If I am, I will complain and retaliate anyway I can. Now, can you understand that?

[midas]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

your futile attempt to portray them as a legitimate and ethical business enterprise is no better than putting lipstick on a pig

"Fraud As a Business Model"

Banks won't change until we follow the law and take "prompt corrective action." Banks that committed widespread fraud should be placed in receivership. Bank of America was cited by William K. Black and L. Randall Wray in their October 2010 post as the place to start, and I agree.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janet-tavakoli/fraud-as-a-business-model_b_950806.html

[JesseFrank]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

There is a huge difference between welfare and thieving organisation.

Below clearly shows banks are in the latter category.

Shareholders approve Jamie Dimon’s 74 percent raise

In January, JPMorgan said it paid its CEO a $1.5 million salary and $18.5 million in restricted stock, resulting in a $20 million payday for Dimon. This compensation was for a year when the company agreed to $20 billion in legal payouts, most notably in the form of a $13 billion settlement with the Justice Department over its mortgage lending practices and roughly $1 billion in fines for its "London Whale" trading scandal. The bank also experienced its first quarterly loss in nearly a decade.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-leadership/wp/2014/05/20/shareholders-approve-jamie-dimons-74-percent-raise/

[Gomyway]

How desperate must the Government of Australia be???

Government grabs $360 million from idle household bank accounts

http://moneysaverhq.heraldsun.com.au/news/government-grabs-360-million-from-idle-household-bank-accounts/story-fnkrnsiy-1226950657835

Edited June 13, 2014 by Gomyway

[midas]

How desperate must the Government of Australia be???

Government grabs $360 million from idle household bank accounts

http://moneysaverhq.heraldsun.com.au/news/government-grabs-360-million-from-idle-household-bank-accounts/story-fnkrnsiy-1226950657835

I bet you the banks don't send out any warning letters to give you a last chance to respond before they seize your property

[midas]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

There is a huge difference between welfare and thieving organisation.

Below clearly shows banks are in the latter category.

Shareholders approve Jamie Dimon’s 74 percent raise

In January, JPMorgan said it paid its CEO a $1.5 million salary and $18.5 million in restricted stock, resulting in a $20 million payday for Dimon. This compensation was for a year when the company agreed to $20 billion in legal payouts, most notably in the form of a $13 billion settlement with the Justice Department over its mortgage lending practices and roughly $1 billion in fines for its "London Whale" trading scandal. The bank also experienced its first quarterly loss in nearly a decade.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-leadership/wp/2014/05/20/shareholders-approve-jamie-dimons-74-percent-raise/

Here are just a few more examples of the " improprieties " by banks:

• Funding the Nazis

• Laundering money for terrorists

• Financing illegal arms deals, and funding the manufacture of cluster bombs (and see this and this) and other arms which are banned in most of the world

• Launching a coup against the President of the United States

• Handling money for rogue military operations

• Laundering money for drug cartels. See this, this, this and this (indeed, drug dealers kept the banking system afloat during the depths of the 2008 financial crisis)

• Engaging in mafia-style big-rigging fraud against local governments. See this, this and this

• Shaving money off of virtually every pension transaction they handled over the course of decades, stealing collectively billions of dollars from pensions worldwide. Details here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here

• Artificially suppressing gold prices

• Charging “storage fees” to store gold bullion … without even buying or storing any gold . And raiding allocated gold accounts

• Committing massive and pervasive fraud both when they initiated mortgage loans and when they foreclosed on them (and see this)

• Pledging the same mortgage multiple times to different buyers. See this, this, this, this and this. This would be like selling your car, and collecting money from 10 different buyers for the same car

• Cheating homeowners by gaming laws meant to protect people from unfair foreclosure

• Committing massive fraud in an $800 trillion dollar market which effects everything from mortgages, student loans, small business loans and city financing

• Manipulating the hundred trillion dollar derivatives market

• Engaging in insider trading of the most important financial information

• Pushing investments which they knew were terrible, and then betting against the same investments to make money for themselves. See this, this, this, this and this

• Engaging in unlawful “frontrunning” to manipulate markets. See this, this, this, this, this and this

• Engaging in unlawful “Wash Trades” to manipulate asset prices. See this, this and this

• Otherwise manipulating markets. And see this

• Participating in various Ponzi schemes. See this, this and this

• Charging veterans unlawful mortgage fees

• Helping the richest to illegally hide assets

• Cooking their books (and see this)

• Bribing and bullying ratings agencies to inflate ratings on their risky investments

Edited June 13, 2014 by midas

[NoshowJones]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

There is a huge difference between welfare and thieving organisation.

Below clearly shows banks are in the latter category.

Shareholders approve Jamie Dimon’s 74 percent raise

In January, JPMorgan said it paid its CEO a $1.5 million salary and $18.5 million in restricted stock, resulting in a $20 million payday for Dimon. This compensation was for a year when the company agreed to $20 billion in legal payouts, most notably in the form of a $13 billion settlement with the Justice Department over its mortgage lending practices and roughly $1 billion in fines for its "London Whale" trading scandal. The bank also experienced its first quarterly loss in nearly a decade.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-leadership/wp/2014/05/20/shareholders-approve-jamie-dimons-74-percent-raise/

Here are just a few more examples of the " improprieties " by banks:

• Funding the Nazis

• Laundering money for terrorists

• Financing illegal arms deals, and funding the manufacture of cluster bombs (and see this and this) and other arms which are banned in most of the world

• Launching a coup against the President of the United States

• Handling money for rogue military operations

• Laundering money for drug cartels. See this, this, this and this (indeed, drug dealers kept the banking system afloat during the depths of the 2008 financial crisis)

• Engaging in mafia-style big-rigging fraud against local governments. See this, this and this

• Shaving money off of virtually every pension transaction they handled over the course of decades, stealing collectively billions of dollars from pensions worldwide. Details here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here

• Artificially suppressing gold prices

• Charging “storage fees” to store gold bullion … without even buying or storing any gold . And raiding allocated gold accounts

• Committing massive and pervasive fraud both when they initiated mortgage loans and when they foreclosed on them (and see this)

• Pledging the same mortgage multiple times to different buyers. See this, this, this, this and this. This would be like selling your car, and collecting money from 10 different buyers for the same car

• Cheating homeowners by gaming laws meant to protect people from unfair foreclosure

• Committing massive fraud in an $800 trillion dollar market which effects everything from mortgages, student loans, small business loans and city financing

• Manipulating the hundred trillion dollar derivatives market

• Engaging in insider trading of the most important financial information

• Pushing investments which they knew were terrible, and then betting against the same investments to make money for themselves. See this, this, this, this and this

• Engaging in unlawful “frontrunning” to manipulate markets. See this, this, this, this, this and this

• Engaging in unlawful “Wash Trades” to manipulate asset prices. See this, this and this

• Otherwise manipulating markets. And see this

• Participating in various Ponzi schemes. See this, this and this

• Charging veterans unlawful mortgage fees

• Helping the richest to illegally hide assets

• Cooking their books (and see this)

• Bribing and bullying ratings agencies to inflate ratings on their risky investments

Thanks Midas, I just hope Naam reads this.

[topt]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

Banks in the UK and Thailand are nothing but huge rip off merchants, and when I deal with banks, insurance companies etc, I expect fairness, I am not looking for things for free or welfare services, I don't expect to be ripped off, If I am, I will complain and retaliate anyway I can. Now, can you understand that?

I am not sure what you are expecting possum1931? As far as I know I have never been "ripped off" by either my main UK or Thai bank. They have charges for particular situations and whilst I may not like them they are what they are. In your earlier example it is well known (or should be) that some Thai banks charge for out of province withdrawals/deposits. Just because it does not happen in the UK does not make it wrong or right.

If my memory serves me correctly withdrawals from a different bank ATM in the UK used to cost(or maybe it still does) £1.50. In many ways I am amazed that I can do so much without being charged from my UK accounts because of the regulatory and competitive nature of the market place.

I won't comment on Midas's examples suffice to say that I suggest they don't seem to have impacted that much on the average customer and you can probably find equivalents amongst much of big business - Enron for example. I am not condoning any of this but it is what it is and rather than having a hissy fit maybe just try and work out how to make it work for you - up to you

[midas]

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

Banks in the UK and Thailand are nothing but huge rip off merchants, and when I deal with banks, insurance companies etc, I expect fairness, I am not looking for things for free or welfare services, I don't expect to be ripped off, If I am, I will complain and retaliate anyway I can. Now, can you understand that?

I am not sure what you are expecting possum1931? As far as I know I have never been "ripped off" by either my main UK or Thai bank. They have charges for particular situations and whilst I may not like them they are what they are. In your earlier example it is well known (or should be) that some Thai banks charge for out of province withdrawals/deposits. Just because it does not happen in the UK does not make it wrong or right.

If my memory serves me correctly withdrawals from a different bank ATM in the UK used to cost(or maybe it still does) £1.50. In many ways I am amazed that I can do so much without being charged from my UK accounts because of the regulatory and competitive nature of the market place.

I won't comment on Midas's examples suffice to say that I suggest they don't seem to have impacted that much on the average customer and you can probably find equivalents amongst much of big business - Enron for example. I am not condoning any of this but it is what it is and rather than having a hissy fit maybe just try and work out how to make it work for you - up to you

LOL I don't think anyone is having a “a hissy fit “ as you put it.

But it is worth considering there comes a stage when a service offered by what used to be a highly respected institution changes so much in nature that the risk profile of dealing with them also changes substantially.

Maybe you haven't been ripped off yet, but the ultimate rip-off will be to pay the bank to hold your money but then have the money taken from you through a variety of possible ways, including bail in’s .

And I can't think of any other example to compare with other “ big business “as you are suggesting where you will pay for a service (that service being for them to take care of YOUR MONEY ) but with huge risks growing daily that you will never get your money back

Judge Rules Bank Accounts Not Your Property, Not Responsible If They Lose Your Funds

Former money manager Ann Barnhardt, who in November of 2011 made the decision to cease operations of her brokerage firm and return funds to her customers citing “systemic” problems within the entire financial industry, has issued a new warning about the stability of US banks and the safety of individual deposit accounts.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/warning-get-your-money-out-all-customer-deposits-in-the-united-states-are-now-the-legal-property-of-jp-morgan-goldman-sachs-megabanks_08122012

Edited June 13, 2014 by midas

[SheungWan]

Things are getting out of hand. The idea of having money in the bank is for safe keeping and an interest however small which the bank re-invests for a larger percentage- no problem. But to charge customers for withdrawing their own money plus fees for depositing is now becoming outrageous. Be careful banks or you will find a massive instance of very unhappy customers who will take things in to their own hands, be warned!

If you want a safe-keeping facility then rent a deposit box.

Monies deposited in a bank is not 'your' money. You are a creditor.

A bank is not a piggy bank. If you want a piggy bank, buy one.

[SheungWan]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

Banks in the UK and Thailand are nothing but huge rip off merchants, and when I deal with banks, insurance companies etc, I expect fairness, I am not looking for things for free or welfare services, I don't expect to be ripped off, If I am, I will complain and retaliate anyway I can. Now, can you understand that?

The moaning minnies expecting handouts one way or another for their small deposits. They just don't like getting charges for services. Fine. Then keep it in cash in your apartment security box. Problem solved.

[NoshowJones]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

Banks in the UK and Thailand are nothing but huge rip off merchants, and when I deal with banks, insurance companies etc, I expect fairness, I am not looking for things for free or welfare services, I don't expect to be ripped off, If I am, I will complain and retaliate anyway I can. Now, can you understand that?

The moaning minnies expecting handouts one way or another for their small deposits. They just don't like getting charges for services. Fine. Then keep it in cash in your apartment security box. Problem solved.

What a mentality!!!!!!!

[NoshowJones]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

Banks in the UK and Thailand are nothing but huge rip off merchants, and when I deal with banks, insurance companies etc, I expect fairness, I am not looking for things for free or welfare services, I don't expect to be ripped off, If I am, I will complain and retaliate anyway I can. Now, can you understand that?

I am not sure what you are expecting possum1931? As far as I know I have never been "ripped off" by either my main UK or Thai bank. They have charges for particular situations and whilst I may not like them they are what they are. In your earlier example it is well known (or should be) that some Thai banks charge for out of province withdrawals/deposits. Just because it does not happen in the UK does not make it wrong or right.

If my memory serves me correctly withdrawals from a different bank ATM in the UK used to cost(or maybe it still does) £1.50. In many ways I am amazed that I can do so much without being charged from my UK accounts because of the regulatory and competitive nature of the market place.

I won't comment on Midas's examples suffice to say that I suggest they don't seem to have impacted that much on the average customer and you can probably find equivalents amongst much of big business - Enron for example. I am not condoning any of this but it is what it is and rather than having a hissy fit maybe just try and work out how to make it work for you - up to you

That is your opnion and I respect it, but I have to say you seem the type of person capitalists just love.

[wataloada]

deposit (5000$ say) 160000 baht across clearing zones in a thai bank and they will hit you for 180 baht. take it out again and they will hit you again.

[Jip99]

deposit (5000$ say) 160000 baht across clearing zones in a thai bank and they will hit you for 180 baht. take it out again and they will hit you again.

Don't do it then ! Find an alternative or stop whining about it.

Wear a helmet, you don't pay 200 Baht.

Don't run a red light and you don't pay 1,000 Baht.

Buy some Baht, keep it under your mattress and you won't pay bank fees.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed, keep your comments civil when posting please.

[SheungWan]

That is your opnion and I respect it, but I have to say you seem the type of person capitalists just love.

I am reminded of the Alex Glasgow song where the chorus line goes 'As soon as this pub closes, the revolution starts'.

[midas]

Providing services for free???????? just like paying 150 or 180 Baht to draw money from a Thai ATM with your foreign debit card.

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

Banks in the UK and Thailand are nothing but huge rip off merchants, and when I deal with banks, insurance companies etc, I expect fairness, I am not looking for things for free or welfare services, I don't expect to be ripped off, If I am, I will complain and retaliate anyway I can. Now, can you understand that?

The moaning minnies expecting handouts one way or another for their small deposits. They just don't like getting charges for services. Fine. Then keep it in cash in your apartment security box. Problem solved.

I bet JPMorgan Chase & Co were moaning minnies when they had to pay back $389 million in refunds and penalties for illegally charging credit card customers for identity theft protection and other add-on services they didn't receive or authorize.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-mo-jpmorgan-chase-credit-cards-refund-20130919-story.html

[midas]

what part of "not a welfare institution providing services for free" is it you don't understand?

Banks in the UK and Thailand are nothing but huge rip off merchants, and when I deal with banks, insurance companies etc, I expect fairness, I am not looking for things for free or welfare services, I don't expect to be ripped off, If I am, I will complain and retaliate anyway I can. Now, can you understand that?

The moaning minnies expecting handouts one way or another for their small deposits. They just don't like getting charges for services. Fine. Then keep it in cash in your apartment security box. Problem solved.

What a mentality!!!!!!!

I reckon SheungWan is related to Ben Shalom Bernanke

[NoshowJones]

That is your opnion and I respect it, but I have to say you seem the type of person capitalists just love.

I am reminded of the Alex Glasgow song where the chorus line goes 'As soon as this pub closes, the revolution starts'.

Alex Glasgow?? Never heard of him.

[midas]

Spain to create tax on bank deposits.

The link to this El Pais story is below although the original article is in Spanish

While Spain’s economy minister Luis De Guindos proclaimed in the Senate today that bank deposits under EUR100,000 are “sacred”and that “Spanish savers should stay calm,” Spain, it would appear, has changed constitutional rules to enable a so-called ‘moderate’ levy on deposits – as under previous Spanish law this was prohibited. For now, they claim the ‘levy’ will be “not much higher than 0%” and is mainly aimed at regions in Spain that have “made no effort to collect taxes” based on new revenue expectations.

As El Pais reports, the minister of finance and public administration, Cristobal Montoro, defends the need for such a ‘levy’ in their constitution on the basis of standardizing taxes across regions (and is preparing a proposal on the amounts to be paid) and although it would appear that while the European Commission could previously argue that such a ‘tax’ would violate the free movement of capital in Europe, it now leaves the door open to eventually effectively taxing the deposits.

http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2013/03/19/actualidad/1363720713_602578.html

Edited June 28, 2014 by midas

[midas]

Barclays stank: 'Angry' man defecates in bank, departs 'smug'

http://rt.com/news/169396-poo-protest-barclays-bank/

[Naam]

deposit (5000$ say) 160000 baht across clearing zones in a thai bank and they will hit you for 180 baht. take it out again and they will hit you again.

horror!