A Reminder That Textile Isn't Really a Substitute for Leather

[wantan]

Everyone who goes faster than 130kmh regularly should not wear textile gear. Up to 120kmh its OK imo. But at the end its much better than riding without gear.

My TCX boots are made in Romania.

My RevIt jackets:

TarmacAir is made in China.

Aiwave is made in Vietnam.

But they are "Designed in the Netherlands"

But wait, hey, my ProMo kevlar jeans are made in ITALY. Guess thats the reason for their exorbitant price tag

[Gweiloman]

I think the most appropriate gear to wear boils down ultimately to the individual - the bike they ride and the condition of the tyres, the speeds they ride at, the trip they are making, the weather, the rider's ability to withstand heat, importance of comfort, the rider's own skills including situational awareness, experience, ability to identify hazards etc.

If I'm riding a big bike with a bunch of fast riders where I will have to push harder than I normally would, then I would go the full monty (full leathers, boots etc). If I'm just "touring" and taking it easy, then I will wear my mesh / textile jacket and pants with touring boots. If I'm riding to a friend's a few kms away, then just a mesh jacket, jeans and normal ankle high riding boots. On my PCX around Bkk, just T-shirt, jeans, sneakers (speeds don't go beyond 60 kmh at best, most of the time, just tooting along at 30-40 kmh, I'm constantly slowing down at intersections, high traffic situations, straight up riding, low speed turns).

[HooHaa]

Im trying to figure out why he slid? Just shietty tires?

did you watch the video?

he states his "fookin" peg touched and then the video clearly shows his foot peg hitting the deck and the bike going down.

As for the jacket, it clearly seems to have done its job, you clearly see the handle bar some how got inside the lining and ripped through.

the point is he slid on his arms and hands and those areas of the jacket are clearly intact.

seems to me money well spent.

Edited June 9, 2014 by HooHaa

[brfsa2]

Even with scooter if you have an accident at 60Km/h it can be really bad. it can get really nasty even with jeans only.

My Kevlar raw denim jeans are made in Thailand, Heavy Hardwear. based on Japanese raw. pretty happy with it. haven't washed yet after 40 days

Anybody interested to my buy Scorpion Full leather jacket (it's bloody heavy), XL size, with inner lining it fits ok, but without it, too big for me. (it's for those weighting 90+KG or 1.80m taller)

PM me for details.

I need a smaller jacket.

[wantan]

Even with scooter if you have an accident at 60Km/h it can be really bad. it can get really nasty even with jeans only.

My Kevlar raw denim jeans are made in Thailand, Heavy Hardwear. based on Japanese raw. pretty happy with it. haven't washed yet after 40 days

Anybody interested to my buy Scorpion Full leather jacket (it's bloody heavy), XL size, with inner lining it fits ok, but without it, too big for me. (it's for those weighting 90+KG or 1.80m taller)

PM me for details.

I need a smaller jacket.

You are right to protect your skin on the scooter. I do too. Mostly. OK, at least sometimes

Heavy Hardwear, nice, i will have a look at them.

https://www.facebook.com/heavyhardwear

But why shouldn't i wash them for "at least 6 month"?

Instead they want me to put the jeans into the freezer to stop the smell!

Seems they try to create some kind of cult around their raw jeans...

Is the jacket perforated?

[brfsa2]

Even with scooter if you have an accident at 60Km/h it can be really bad. it can get really nasty even with jeans only.

My Kevlar raw denim jeans are made in Thailand, Heavy Hardwear. based on Japanese raw. pretty happy with it. haven't washed yet after 40 days

Anybody interested to my buy Scorpion Full leather jacket (it's bloody heavy), XL size, with inner lining it fits ok, but without it, too big for me. (it's for those weighting 90+KG or 1.80m taller)

PM me for details.

I need a smaller jacket.

You are right to protect your skin on the scooter. I do too. Mostly. OK, at least sometimes

Heavy Hardwear, nice, i will have a look at them.

https://www.facebook.com/heavyhardwear

But why shouldn't i wash them for "at least 6 month"?

Instead they want me to put the jeans into the freezer to stop the smell!

Seems they try to create some kind of cult around their raw jeans...

Is the jacket perforated?

Google for raw denim break-in. or check this page http://www.nudiejeans.com/break-in/ and you will know what it's about,

I've had accidents and I've seen some nasty accidents with scooters at low speed. many in koh chang and phuket.

Even if I ride a few KM, just near home, I will wear some jeans, leather boots and at least some textile jacket.

The leather jacket is not perforated but it has four vertical zippers, 2 in the front for air intake and the other 2 on the back for air to flow out. It's a pretty thick and heavy jacket but still bearable for thai weather.

mine is quite new, I wore it for 3 months.

In this nasty crash the guy got saved really well from his good gear. his bike was totalled, he ended up under the car, but walked out of it (with some help)

His gear was complete and high quality, imagine if he was wearing just jeans, shoes and a textile jacket... oh and an open face helmet.

Edited June 9, 2014 by brfsa2

[Beardog]

That guy on the Yamaha was so lucky not to meet up with a 66 Parklane Mercury Or a similar Couple Deville the same year or he would be fubar from the heavy chrome bumper alone. It paid off to have top gear the heavy pads saved him from some intense heat under the auto.You can see the Huge difference in gear a $200 suit is nothing compared to a full on set like he had on. That is the Main reason I went with the Hein Gerhicke leathers. Used a lot in the Harley circles & most came out of major blowouts in great shape. They are very heavy. I would loose a kilo a day with it on in Thailand but would probably do better than my airless Moto-air (if I zip it up) in a wreck. You sure don't need to be going in the 100's of MPH to get hurt slower speed your materials seem to burn down more in a slow speed scorcher. Is he lucky. Bike does look somewhat saveable . Hope none of us are ever that unfortunate to me a car this way. Damn good thing he ejected from the bike!

[ll2]

I am currently in the market for a new leather jacket and pants. What's the best perforated leather jacket available now without an insulating liner? Cost isn't a priority because the jacket should last me 3 years or so. Safety and breatheability would be the most important factors.

ATF, check Dainese Bangkok and Panda Rider for Revit.

Dainese has 30 to 40 percent discount on some old model - not second hand - full leather suits and sizes are available.

I see prices like 30 k to 45 k on these old discounted models which is really a great bargain. I got my Daniese suit also from one of these discounted old models for half the price before!

Of course they are proper models no problems just old models still all in good condition.

and regarding the video, icon is not best or safest brand out there sure.

It is known mostly with its good value products not the safest or the best.

So, it is not surprising but seeing that jacket dissolve like toilet paper is really shocking.

Edited June 10, 2014 by ll2

[Alwayssunny]

I'm interested to know, why does a bike lose traction like that all of a sudden, was he leaning over too far for the speed he was going? could it have been treadles tires? Was there sand or lose material on the road? or is it just one of those things that happens which can't be explained, glad the rider was okay!!

Does the wearing of all this gear make riders behave as if they are on a race track when in fact they are on public roads?

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Edited June 10, 2014 by Alwayssunny

[wantan]

In this nasty crash the guy got saved really well from his good gear. his bike was totalled, he ended up under the car, but walked out of it (with some help)

His gear was complete and high quality, imagine if he was wearing just jeans, shoes and a textile jacket... oh and an open face helmet.

But imo this is also a good example for someone pushing it to the limit because of good gear. He confused public streets with the race track. Maybe because he knows there are cameras.

So instead of listening to fearmongering i will stick to what Gweiloman said and just ride like a responsible person with proper gear for doing so. If thats too boring for you you need full leather.

I remember when i was young there were these guys who put rollover bars and racing seat belts in their cars. It were always these guys who had the worst crashes and most serious injuries.

[Dakling]

The best riding gear in the world isn't going to help you out if it is in the closet. I would never bother with a full leather set in Thailand unless I was planning on getting a track bike and doing lots of track days. I also don't push it when on Thai roads as things are just too unpredictable here for my taste. I consider my riding style here has casually quick. Usually faster than prevailing traffic but never that close to my limits.

I prefer to wear a mesh jacket, jeans, gloves and boots when riding in Thailand. For me quality gloves and a full face helmet are the most important consideration. I prefer to wear proper boots and bring a change of shoes/flip flops with me as I like to have confident footing on the pegs and levers. I usually wont go for a fully armored boot though as I want to be able to fit the upper boot under a normal pair of jeans. Good gloves and boots also give me a bit better control on the bike as well as offering protection. It is human nature to put your hands out when you fall and hand injuries are incredibly painful and debilitating. So I usually go for the best gloves I can find though I am a bit less concerned about the gauntlet than I used to be. I don't like super short gloves but I don't need full on racing gauntlets that go half way to my elbow either. I think the biggest thing about gloves is that they wear quickly and must be repaired or replaced once the stitching starts to go or palms start to wear out.

Wearing jeans is a compromise because they really don't offer protection other than minor abrasion protection. I have found in my accidents that I have never hurt my knees or lower legs but my hips often take a beating and sliding on those pocket rivets sucks. I just haven't found anything I would actually wear on a regular basis other than jeans. If I am simply going out for a ride I might bother to put on some sort of light weight pants but I would never wear them if I was actually going somewhere to meet people.

As much as we all worry about the high-speed accident and the short stop provided by a concrete power pole, the reality is that most single vehicle accidents will continue to be low to mid speed low sides during everyday riding. Wearing your gear all the time is more important that having the best possible gear but rarely bothering to wear it. For me and my riding style I think comfortable gear that I will actually wear everyday is more important than trying to find the "safest gear". After all in the worst case scenario where you end up under a truck or something, all that fancy leather gear is gonna do is keep the bits together in one place so the road crew has an easier clean up job.

[Alwayssunny]

The best riding gear in the world isn't going to help you out if it is in the closet. I would never bother with a full leather set in Thailand unless I was planning on getting a track bike and doing lots of track days. I also don't push it when on Thai roads as things are just too unpredictable here for my taste. I consider my riding style here has casually quick. Usually faster than prevailing traffic but never that close to my limits.

I prefer to wear a mesh jacket, jeans, gloves and boots when riding in Thailand. For me quality gloves and a full face helmet are the most important consideration. I prefer to wear proper boots and bring a change of shoes/flip flops with me as I like to have confident footing on the pegs and levers. I usually wont go for a fully armored boot though as I want to be able to fit the upper boot under a normal pair of jeans. Good gloves and boots also give me a bit better control on the bike as well as offering protection. It is human nature to put your hands out when you fall and hand injuries are incredibly painful and debilitating. So I usually go for the best gloves I can find though I am a bit less concerned about the gauntlet than I used to be. I don't like super short gloves but I don't need full on racing gauntlets that go half way to my elbow either. I think the biggest thing about gloves is that they wear quickly and must be repaired or replaced once the stitching starts to go or palms start to wear out.

Wearing jeans is a compromise because they really don't offer protection other than minor abrasion protection. I have found in my accidents that I have never hurt my knees or lower legs but my hips often take a beating and sliding on those pocket rivets sucks. I just haven't found anything I would actually wear on a regular basis other than jeans. If I am simply going out for a ride I might bother to put on some sort of light weight pants but I would never wear them if I was actually going somewhere to meet people.

As much as we all worry about the high-speed accident and the short stop provided by a concrete power pole, the reality is that most single vehicle accidents will continue to be low to mid speed low sides during everyday riding. Wearing your gear all the time is more important that having the best possible gear but rarely bothering to wear it. For me and my riding style I think comfortable gear that I will actually wear everyday is more important than trying to find the "safest gear". After all in the worst case scenario where you end up under a truck or something, all that fancy leather gear is gonna do is keep the bits together in one place so the road crew has an easier clean up job.

Not all of us worry about high speed accidents! if you are driving on public roads you should not be traveling at high speeds!! all this gear that is worn is only going to protect you to some degree from abrasion damage, if you hit a car etc at high speed all the expensive gear is not going to save your life, just because you own a big powerful bike and have spent thousands on protection gear it does not mean you can drive like a lunatic on public roads, go to the race track!!

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[Dakling]

I'm interested to know, why does a bike lose traction like that all of a sudden, was he leaning over too far for the speed he was going? could it have been treadles tires? Was there sand or lose material on the road? or is it just one of those things that happens which can't be explained, glad the rider was okay!!

Does the wearing of all this gear make riders behave as if they are on a race track when in fact they are on public roads?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Usually the bike doesn't lose traction all of a sudden as long as you don't go into a full skid. When you approach the limits of traction under proper conditions, the bike should start to very slightly start to drift out from under you and you end up going a bit wider than your intended line. You can usually feel it and sometimes hear the tires whining a bit. While I did ride to my limits on near deserted public roads in Canada when I was younger, I certainly don't recommend it. As far as doing it in Thailand I think you have to be near suicidal. Road surfaces are dodgy at best here and traffic is more than unpredictable. When you watch the pro's race most of their wipe-outs start slow as they begin to lose traction and then suddenly it speeds up and they tuck the front or lose the rear.

When folks lose control dramatically it is usually because you are jerky on the controls, or you if totally misjudge things and significantly exceed to limits of traction for even an instant you will lose grip dramatically and almost instantly. This is because once the tire starts to slide the contact patch transitions from static (not sliding) friction to dynamic (sliding) friction. Dynamic friction is much lower than static friction so once you transition to dynamic you feel like you have zero grip. If you have lots of run out room you can still save it but things get real tricky. This is pretty much why anti-lock breaks have shorter stopping distances.

[Alwayssunny]

I'm interested to know, why does a bike lose traction like that all of a sudden, was he leaning over too far for the speed he was going? could it have been treadles tires? Was there sand or lose material on the road? or is it just one of those things that happens which can't be explained, glad the rider was okay!!

Does the wearing of all this gear make riders behave as if they are on a race track when in fact they are on public roads?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Usually the bike doesn't lose traction all of a sudden as long as you don't go into a full skid. When you approach the limits of traction under proper conditions, the bike should start to very slightly start to drift out from under you and you end up going a bit wider than your intended line. You can usually feel it and sometimes hear the tires whining a bit. While I did ride to my limits on near deserted public roads in Canada when I was younger, I certainly don't recommend it. As far as doing it in Thailand I think you have to be near suicidal. Road surfaces are dodgy at best here and traffic is more than unpredictable. When you watch the pro's race most of their wipe-outs start slow as they begin to lose traction and then suddenly it speeds up and they tuck the front or lose the rear.

When folks lose control dramatically it is usually because you are jerky on the controls, or you if totally misjudge things and significantly exceed to limits of traction for even an instant you will lose grip dramatically and almost instantly. This is because once the tire starts to slide the contact patch transitions from static (not sliding) friction to dynamic (sliding) friction. Dynamic friction is much lower than static friction so once you transition to dynamic you feel like you have zero grip. If you have lots of run out room you can still save it but things get real tricky. This is pretty much why anti-lock breaks have shorter stopping distances.

Can't say I understood your reply 100% as I'm not a racer, never have been and don't want to be especially on Thai roads, a few days ago I was passed by a big biker with all the gear, he passed me doing a crazy speed and on a bend, I don't get it!!

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[RubberSideDown]

Wear what you want, but at least know what you're talking about in regards to it. Of course riding stupidly will increase your chances of having an accident, but these 'I'm a safe rider and can dress to a lower standard' arguments are wrong (in fact, many riders tend to wear better gear as their experience increases as they've seen how bad the roads can be). Unless you have control of not only yourself but also everyone else on the road with you (not to mention the road itself, which can present its own hazards), wearing anything less than leather or thick (500+ denier) cordura (which isn't what mesh jackets are made from) puts you at increased risk as you're wearing lesser protection.

We all make our compromises, but I dress for the car that might knock me off my bike, not the slow low-side. If I wear jeans, they're Kevlar-reinforced and I have CE-rated armor under them, and- though I have some quality textile jackets- I almost never wear them in favor of high-end perforated leather (which, if it's properly constructed, offers adequate airflow).

If it's super-hot and you gear downward or you have a massive commute in stop-and-go traffic and just can't take wearing the best protection, that's understandable and we all do what we have to do to get by, but don't rationalize it by talking about your riding style as if that will keep some idiot in a cage from taking you out, because if you're on the road, you're at risk regardless of your speed.

An armored textile jacket is WAY better than nothing (and, in fact, it's good enough to protect you as well as leather in most accidents)- there is a gap that exists between the respective abrasion resistance of leather and textile, though, and while you might be willing to risk an accident that takes you beyond the protection a textile jacket can offer, you'll wish you hadn't if you have the 'big one'. I have worn textile in the past, but I don't think I'll be wearing it again as far as jackets are concerned.

[Alwayssunny]

Wear what you want, but at least know what you're talking about in regards to it. Of course riding stupidly will increase your chances of having an accident, but these 'I'm a safe rider and can dress to a lower standard' arguments are wrong (in fact, many riders tend to wear better gear as their experience increases as they've seen how bad the roads can be). Unless you have control of not only yourself but also everyone else on the road with you (not to mention the road itself, which can present its own hazards), wearing anything less than leather or thick (500+ denier) cordura (which isn't what mesh jackets are made from) puts you at increased risk as you're wearing lesser protection.

We all make our compromises, but I dress for the car that might knock me off my bike, not the slow low-side. If I wear jeans, they're Kevlar-reinforced and I have CE-rated armor under them, and- though I have some quality textile jackets- I almost never wear them in favor of high-end perforated leather (which, if it's properly constructed, offers adequate airflow).

If it's super-hot and you gear downward or you have a massive commute in stop-and-go traffic and just can't take wearing the best protection, that's understandable and we all do what we have to do to get by, but don't rationalize it by talking about your riding style as if that will keep some idiot in a cage from taking you out, because if you're on the road, you're at risk regardless of your speed.

An armored textile jacket is WAY better than nothing (and, in fact, it's good enough to protect you as well as leather in most accidents)- there is a gap that exists between the respective abrasion resistance of leather and textile, though, and while you might be willing to risk an accident that takes you beyond the protection a textile jacket can offer, you'll wish you hadn't if you have the 'big one'. I have worn textile in the past, but I don't think I'll be wearing it again as far as jackets are concerned.

Yes we all wear what we want, I'm not disputing that quality riding gear is better than gear of a lesser quality, I drive at a speed that lessons my chance of a big accident considerably, it's impossible to one day avoid the rear ended accident or someone hitting you from the side but that risk is there for everyone! I am now riding with a Tachai jacket it's no where near the quality of the expensive Alpinestars jackets etc but it's better than a tee shirt, I wear gloves now again they are cheap but will give some protection at the speeds I go, I am now looking into some sort of light weight trousers or maybe jeans again better than shorts, some high trainers that give some protection to the ankles is also on the cards, I drive at 100kph or less, I only drive at 100kph on roads that are clear and I can see a long way in the distance, I consider my gear to be adequate!

Riding style is everything when you are driving on public roads as is wearing the gear you feel comfortable in, if you drive at speed in traffic your chance of an accident is very high, if you drive at high speed on open roads your chance of an accident is higher than someone who drives at 100kph or less! I think I'm correct t in saying the speed limit on Thai main roads is 90kph! that is plenty fast enough on these poorly maintained roads!

Only this morning I had someone cut in front of me at the last second, no,problem I was doing 60kph and stopped safety, anyone going much faster than that would not have been able to avoid the bike with a young couple on it! I certainly told him what a Pratt the was!!

Anyway getting back to one of my quotes, why does a big bike rider feel the need to blast past a slower rider on a bend?

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Edited June 10, 2014 by Alwayssunny

[Dakling]

If it's super-hot and you gear downward or you have a massive commute in stop-and-go traffic and just can't take wearing the best protection, that's understandable and we all do what we have to do to get by, but don't rationalize it by talking about your riding style as if that will keep some idiot in a cage from taking you out, because if you're on the road, you're at risk regardless of your speed.

Motorcycling is an inherently dangerous activity. I suppose so is getting up in the morning. We all make decisions regarding our personal safety and while I agree that to date nothing has proven more effective for protection than armored full suits for motorcycles most of us don't chose to wear them. For me "the best protection" is the protection I will actually bother to wear. I know myself well enough to know that I would never bother with full gear if I am popping down to the nearest 7/11 for a coke. For me helmet and gloves are pretty much 100% of the time. Boots jeans and a textile jacket are about 80% of the time. I am not deluding myself that this is the safest practice but if I were to switch to a full leather suit instead of jeans and jacket I know the 80% would drop to 60% and for me that is a bigger risk than the reduced protection of the less comfortable gear.

I would argue that riding style is more important than gear though. While it may be true that some accidents are truly unavoidable, riding conservatively will often help you avoid contacting the idiot in the cage that is trying to take you out. I absolutely advocate the best gear available for track use and I always wear full gear (albeit textile jacket and jeans) on any long rides or rides where I will be on a highway. I don't consider that to be "rationalizing" it is simply how I choose to balance my personal safety versus my comfort and convenience.

At the end of the day I personally disagree with the subject line for this thread. For me textile jackets are a perfectly viable substitute for leather in many applications. I would agree that full leather suits are better for track and/or aggressive riding but textile jackets definitely have their place.

[JonnyF]

The best riding gear in the world isn't going to help you out if it is in the closet. I would never bother with a full leather set in Thailand unless I was planning on getting a track bike and doing lots of track days. I also don't push it when on Thai roads as things are just too unpredictable here for my taste. I consider my riding style here has casually quick. Usually faster than prevailing traffic but never that close to my limits.

I prefer to wear a mesh jacket, jeans, gloves and boots when riding in Thailand. For me quality gloves and a full face helmet are the most important consideration. I prefer to wear proper boots and bring a change of shoes/flip flops with me as I like to have confident footing on the pegs and levers. I usually wont go for a fully armored boot though as I want to be able to fit the upper boot under a normal pair of jeans. Good gloves and boots also give me a bit better control on the bike as well as offering protection. It is human nature to put your hands out when you fall and hand injuries are incredibly painful and debilitating. So I usually go for the best gloves I can find though I am a bit less concerned about the gauntlet than I used to be. I don't like super short gloves but I don't need full on racing gauntlets that go half way to my elbow either. I think the biggest thing about gloves is that they wear quickly and must be repaired or replaced once the stitching starts to go or palms start to wear out.

Wearing jeans is a compromise because they really don't offer protection other than minor abrasion protection. I have found in my accidents that I have never hurt my knees or lower legs but my hips often take a beating and sliding on those pocket rivets sucks. I just haven't found anything I would actually wear on a regular basis other than jeans. If I am simply going out for a ride I might bother to put on some sort of light weight pants but I would never wear them if I was actually going somewhere to meet people.

As much as we all worry about the high-speed accident and the short stop provided by a concrete power pole, the reality is that most single vehicle accidents will continue to be low to mid speed low sides during everyday riding. Wearing your gear all the time is more important that having the best possible gear but rarely bothering to wear it. For me and my riding style I think comfortable gear that I will actually wear everyday is more important than trying to find the "safest gear". After all in the worst case scenario where you end up under a truck or something, all that fancy leather gear is gonna do is keep the bits together in one place so the road crew has an easier clean up job.

Not all of us worry about high speed accidents! if you are driving on public roads you should not be traveling at high speeds!! all this gear that is worn is only going to protect you to some degree from abrasion damage, if you hit a car etc at high speed all the expensive gear is not going to save your life, just because you own a big powerful bike and have spent thousands on protection gear it does not mean you can drive like a lunatic on public roads, go to the race track!!

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I'd agree with a lot of this, wearing the best gear tends to create a false sense of security in some people and may even encourage them to ride faster or take risks based on an incorrect assumption that they can just slide down the road and walk away like a couple of guys in the videos posted. True on a race track most of the time (although there's still risk), but in the real world of cement trucks, walls, pickups coming in the opposite direction etc. even the best gear won't save you.

You've only got to look at the Simoncelli fatality, wearing state of the art gear on a smooth surface and a bike travelling in the same direction as him at near enough the same speed was enough to kill him. Compare that to hitting the front of a truck travelling in the opposite direction or even slamming into a wall, bus stop, central reservation etc. Good gear will help and I wear it, but it's not a free pass to ride how you like.

Nothing wrong with riding fast, but picking your moments carefully is better than assuming your new suit makes your bulletproof. Also a good idea to consider the damage your 200kg bike flying down the road at 100kph+ can do to innocent bystanders.

[Dakling]

Anyway getting back to one of my quotes, why does a big bike rider feel the need to blast past a slower rider on a bend?

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Provided he gave you lots of room and was driving to what he felt were acceptable speeds for the situation I guess I don't see anything wrong with it. Just because someone else is going faster than you it doesn't make them wrong.

I often overtake people at rates of speed significantly higher than the speed at which they are travelling. It don't feel there is anything wrong with this provided I am not crowding them. I have stopped undertaking on the shoulder at high speed though as I find that can often startle the unaware cage rider who hasn't been watching their mirrors. Did it once back in Canada and the guy in the car swerved towards the oncoming traffic and could have had an accident. Clearly my bad on that one.

[Alwayssunny]

Anyway getting back to one of my quotes, why does a big bike rider feel the need to blast past a slower rider on a bend?

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Provided he gave you lots of room and was driving to what he felt were acceptable speeds for the situation I guess I don't see anything wrong with it. Just because someone else is going faster than you it doesn't make them wrong.

I often overtake people at rates of speed significantly higher than the speed at which they are travelling. It don't feel there is anything wrong with this provided I am not crowding them. I have stopped undertaking on the shoulder at high speed though as I find that can often startle the unaware cage rider who hasn't been watching their mirrors. Did it once back in Canada and the guy in the car swerved towards the oncoming traffic and could have had an accident. Clearly my bad on that one.

He didn't give a great deal of room and the noise of his loud exhaust <deleted> the life out of me which could have caused me to react badly, luckily I did see him at the last second so was some what prepared, the bikes behind me were filming him so it was a show for the Camara, just like the video in this thread he could have lost traction and caused a very bad accident, to me it would have been better to wait for a straight bit of road and pass safety, but hey he is now a star to all his mates!!

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[JonnyF]

This is a good example of what I mean...

[Alwayssunny]

This is a good example of what I mean...

Excellent now all we have to do is convince all the big bikers who think it's great and fun to drive at high speeds on public roads!! will they take notice of course they won't!!

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[RubberSideDown]

Well, I'd say the degree of danger between riding a motorcycle in LOS and waking up in the morning is so great that it's kind of reaching to put them both in the same context...

I don't disagree with what you're saying for the most part, but most of my close calls have come in traffic during average, non-aggressive riding (and I- like most riders- am extremely aware of others on the road with me).

As I said, textile is better than nothing (much better) but mesh jackets just don't hold up like leather, and if you have a severe crash, you're potentially risking more serious injury by choosing it over leather. You are indeed rationalizing your choice, though (as am I)- at least you're doing it knowledgeably.

I ride a fast bike and thoroughly enjoy it- I'm very into my gear, and I also make my choices accordingly (not so much with jackets, helmets, or gloves, which are the same regardless- I haven't ridden a meter on my 14R without being geared-up- pads, boots, and pants are chosen according to the ride, though- I also don't ride it to the 7/11, and I take it very seriously)- there was a time when I wasn't so concerned, but my own experiences as well as those of friends and acquaintances changed my mind.

The surface of public roads is just as hard and abrasive as that of the track- the best protection is the same in both areas- make your choices as you need to and do what works best, but if you put in enough miles sooner or later you'll probably get taken out. I haven't touched the pavement in more than a decade, but I still gear up as if that ride will be the one that breaks my streak- I don't want to end up saying I should have worn my better kit- no argument that the gear in your back is way better than the gear at home in your closet that you never wear, though.

It's also not about riding fast- that has nothing to do with the relative merits of particular types of gear- the worst I ever got hurt was a low-speed slide on a scooter, where I walked away uninjured from other get-offs where I was properly geared-up.

Edited June 10, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[Gweiloman]

I have to say that for a change, I am really enjoying this thread. All the debates being put up on all sides are thoughtful, considerate and sincere. No one is trying to run anyone else down (yet). Instead, good, meaningful exchange of ideas, thoughts and opinions.

Kudos!! Keep it going.

[ll2]

I agree with many ideas here.

we are all individuals so it is up to us to calculate the risks we get.

Plus it is not so hard to find the balance on comfort and safety.

You can get a mesh - cordura/leather jacket or pant instead of full leather. Personally I do this way while commuting and of course wear my leathers while tracking.

Still, I believe the riders ride ATGATT all the time apart from 7 or talat Kao runs for a km are the ones got bad accidents in their lives lets say the ones got a hard lesson on this.

Or the ones do not want to take unnecessary risks just bc weather is hot and you sweat.

Or the ones that want to ride until they are hundred years old without going into a grave or complaining about an aching leg or a.s bone!

I always repeat this sentence like a parrot here and don't mind repeating it again.

'it is sweat or bleed' , and as a rider, please choose one.

Moreover, you can be the most conservative rider in this world still you never know. You can lose the front end suddenly or a car can take you or you can get a wobble. Statistics state that most of the accidents are happening on familiar roads or while you are close to your home.

It is plain over confidence to say I am riding conservatively and nothing happens to me. Riding not more than a certain speed will not be helping you either as low speed accidents happen more and road rash is road rash. A 15 kph accident might give you nice tattoos! You can brag about them later if you want after painful skin drafts though!

Never forget, only 'god' does not fall. Rest fall one way or another!

And if you are not prepared when this happens, you bleed.

Edited June 10, 2014 by ll2

[Gweiloman]

Excellent now all we have to do is convince all the big bikers who think it's great and fun to drive at high speeds on public roads!! will they take notice of course they won't!!

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Anyone who thinks it's great and fun to drive at reckless speeds is an idiot. However, reckless does not necessarily equate to high speeds. Conversely, high speeds does not necessarily mean reckless, even on public roads. It all depends on the situation and circumstances prevailing at that time.

Then again, high speeds means different things to different riders. You can be sure that a rider like Marc Marquez is in better control of his bike at 300 kmh than I am at 150 kmh.

Just because someone overtakes you at what you consider as a reckless move might not in reality mean that.

[ubonjoe]

A post with snipped quotes that changed the context of them has been removed along with a reply to it and subsequent bickering has been removed.

[seedy]

My father bought a 45 cu in Indian just after WW2, never saw the bike - just pictures of him on it.

I asked him why he had so many chrome studs on his jacket, many on the arms, shoulders, back.

He said they were there to allow you to slide on the pavement after you went down. You could tell the older bikers, they had many studs ground down from sliding.

[mania]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKLYrG7_oYk#t=95

[Alwayssunny]

Brilliant if you intend sliding down the road for a couple of minutes which would mean you were driving at Mach 2!! do these leathers prevent broken bones? would they protect you if hit head on by a car or bus? personally I will continue driving at a reduced speed and wearing my minimal gear!! it's certainly not wrong wearing that suit, how hot would that be in this country?

This suit would be essential if you are a racing driver driving on a racing track but surely it's not needed on public roads where the speed limit is 90kph?

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Edited June 11, 2014 by Alwayssunny