Dowry

[keithkarmann]

I recently posted about Dowry and I have strong feelings against paying dowry so I have come up with an alternative. As I already through my girlfriend pay towards her family I do not want to pay them any extra, which the dowry would be extra money to them. I have been with my girlfriend approaching two years now and can see no reason why we should not make our relationship long term. I plan to put the dowry money towards building my girlfriend a house. The house would be built gradually and any money put towards the house would be money that I could afford to lose. If I look back to before I met my girlfriend I was spending large amounts on beer and women and now my spending has been reduced by 50% due to the stability my girlfriend has brought to my life. The house will be built on land her father owns (but transferred to my girlfriend) and I would have a lease on the land so the house would be in my name. I am over 60 years old and know I will not live forever so in the event of my demise my girlfriend would have a house which she would not get if a dowry was insisted upon.

Has anyone got any positive or negative views on my plans as I can only see it would be a positive move. Yes of course she could dump me after the house was finished but I do not plan to finnish it in a hurry and until it is finished and hopefully beyond I will keep the stability in my life.

Keithkarmann.

[Thighlander]

How many kids does she have? Her first marriage? Don't expect a lot of helpful, polite responses from this bunch. There would still need to be some money shown at the wedding or it would be total loss of face for the Thai family to let their daughter marry a farang. There's millions of them out there, who are only 20 years younger, who wouldn't expect a Baht, and have the wherewithall to not be reliant on foreign bankbook.

Buy a condo in your name; let her stay in it for free, unless she would rather stay with her parents or rent her own place. If she stays with you until death, leave it to her.

[Oscar2]

you would be making a large mistake. at your age, you are being taken for a ride. dowry? i guess you mean sinsod. i don't know anyone, Thai or farang, who has ever paid such a thing. find a lady closer to your own age who likes you for who you are, and not what you can do for her and her family.

how does this relate C.M. anyway?

why do you "pay towards her family already"???

Edited June 9, 2014 by Oscar2

[onthedarkside]

Not CM related. Might be better in the Family Forum ---> moving

[amexpat]

Oscar2, have you ever been to Thailand?

[worgeordie]

you would be making a large mistake. at your age, you are being taken for a ride. dowry? i guess you mean sinsod. i don't know anyone, Thai or farang, who has ever paid such a thing. find a lady closer to your own age who likes you for who you are, and not what you can do for her and her family.

how does this relate C.M. anyway?

why do you "pay towards her family already"???

Yes plenty of suckers have paid sinsod,Like the man said,hes going to build a house,with

money he can afford to loose,which like he said himself,was just going on drink and women,

so just wish him good luck, its his money,his life,if it turns out ok good for him,if he has someone

to take care of him in his old age, better than wasting away in some old peoples home.

regards worgeordie

[zeichen]

Oscar2 BS.

If you actually have lived in Thailand more than a week at a time and have ever met a Thai man, then you have met people who have paid Sinsod. It is not a foreign scam, it is a fact of life.

Money is often for show but sometimes when the family is poor some is kept. As long as you have a good relationship with her family and her, then you can discuss with them and not with strangers on an internet forum.

I do get tired of foreigners bashing other cultures traditions and equating this to buying a wife. I guess that buying a diamond ring for the same amount as most sinsod is ok though.

[northernjohn]

Oscar2 BS.

If you actually have lived in Thailand more than a week at a time and have ever met a Thai man, then you have met people who have paid Sinsod. It is not a foreign scam, it is a fact of life.

Money is often for show but sometimes when the family is poor some is kept. As long as you have a good relationship with her family and her, then you can discuss with them and not with strangers on an internet forum.

I do get tired of foreigners bashing other cultures traditions and equating this to buying a wife. I guess that buying a diamond ring for the same amount as most sinsod is ok though.

Some people know nothing and resent it when you tell them some thing.

I have a friend who got married to a Thai lady. He paid the money. He also paid for the traditional Buddhist wedding. I believe that part was cheap. He also invited every one in the village and the next one over. It was a real pleasure to see. Even though I didn't understand it all. Like pouring water on the ground or the trunk of a big tree.

Bottom line is people line up to tie some string around their wrist and leave a cash offering. I believe it covered the cost of the Sinsod. Here we are 4 years later and they are still happily married.

[Oceanbat]

Oscar2 BS.

If you actually have lived in Thailand more than a week at a time and have ever met a Thai man, then you have met people who have paid Sinsod. It is not a foreign scam, it is a fact of life.

Money is often for show but sometimes when the family is poor some is kept. As long as you have a good relationship with her family and her, then you can discuss with them and not with strangers on an internet forum.

I do get tired of foreigners bashing other cultures traditions and equating this to buying a wife. I guess that buying a diamond ring for the same amount as most sinsod is ok though.

Some people know nothing and resent it when you tell them some thing.

I have a friend who got married to a Thai lady. He paid the money. He also paid for the traditional Buddhist wedding. I believe that part was cheap. He also invited every one in the village and the next one over. It was a real pleasure to see. Even though I didn't understand it all. Like pouring water on the ground or the trunk of a big tree.

Bottom line is people line up to tie some string around their wrist and leave a cash offering. I believe it covered the cost of the Sinsod. Here we are 4 years later and they are still happily married.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Oceanbat]

Oscar2 BS.

If you actually have lived in Thailand more than a week at a time and have ever met a Thai man, then you have met people who have paid Sinsod. It is not a foreign scam, it is a fact of life.

Money is often for show but sometimes when the family is poor some is kept. As long as you have a good relationship with her family and her, then you can discuss with them and not with strangers on an internet forum.

I do get tired of foreigners bashing other cultures traditions and equating this to buying a wife. I guess that buying a diamond ring for the same amount as most sinsod is ok though.

Some people know nothing and resent it when you tell them some thing.

I have a friend who got married to a Thai lady. He paid the money. He also paid for the traditional Buddhist wedding. I believe that part was cheap. He also invited every one in the village and the next one over. It was a real pleasure to see. Even though I didn't understand it all. Like pouring water on the ground or the trunk of a big tree.

Bottom line is people line up to tie some string around their wrist and leave a cash offering. I believe it covered the cost of the Sinsod. Here we are 4 years later and they are still happily married.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Did not pay it and it wasn't expected.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[BB1955]

I think its a great idea , if the family will go along with it . Sounds like they will being the land arrangement . Rather than a lease I would get a usfruct or its called something like that and get it prior to getting married . This gives you total control of the land until you die. But what your doing makes good sense to me anyway . I paid sin sod to the parents felt weard at the time because I had not been in the country much . I also bought them some land which in agreement would be left to my wife . They are both still alive and the land is now in my wifes name .. What does concern me is the fact that you are going to be in very close living status with her family , but that's all a matter of taste . Not every Thai woman gets a house and then dumps her husband throws him out on the street .... When that does happen sometimes theres a pretty good reason ... So not all is Bad in the land of smiles ..

[stoli]

Sinsod is paid all the time. The important thing is for it to be shown at the wedding. Often arrangements are made to show it at the wedding, and then given back to the groom afterwards. Sometimes if the groom does not have the money, the brides parents put up their own money to show at the wedding, and then of course keep it after the wedding. Everyone saves face. Don't let anyone tell you that this does not happen. Believe it or not, just like the rest of the world, some marriages do last forever. Especially when you start in your 60's.

[Loaded]

If she's been married and/or has kids, her parents don't receive a second dowry. However, if a man is old and the woman is still 'marketable' despite previous marriages/children, sponsorship of her and her close family is expected. Sponsorship comes in many forms. What the OP needs to be wary of though is that drops of mercury aren't added to his morning cuppa once the woman has separated him from all his material possessions. he'll be on his own in the village and nobody will give a hoot about him unless he keeps supporting them.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Loaded

[seesip]

Technically you're talking about a "bride price" (paid from groom to bride's family), and not a "dowry" (bride's family to groom).

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Don't marry her, no dowry then.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Sinsod is paid all the time. The important thing is for it to be shown at the wedding. Often arrangements are made to show it at the wedding, and then given back to the groom afterwards. Sometimes if the groom does not have the money, the brides parents put up their own money to show at the wedding, and then of course keep it after the wedding. Everyone saves face. Don't let anyone tell you that this does not happen. Believe it or not, just like the rest of the world, some marriages do last forever. Especially when you start in your 60's.

Sometimes they say they will give the money back, and they don't.

A regular poster on this forum lost 200k that way.

[darren84310]

How many kids does she have? Her first marriage? Don't expect a lot of helpful, polite responses from this bunch. There would still need to be some money shown at the wedding or it would be total loss of face for the Thai family to let their daughter marry a farang. There's millions of them out there, who are only 20 years younger, who wouldn't expect a Baht, and have the wherewithall to not be reliant on foreign bankbook.

Buy a condo in your name; let her stay in it for free, unless she would rather stay with her parents or rent her own place. If she stays with you until death, leave it to her.

Are you trying to get him killed?

[F4UCorsair]

Oscar2 BS.

If you actually have lived in Thailand more than a week at a time and have ever met a Thai man, then you have met people who have paid Sinsod. It is not a foreign scam, it is a fact of life.

Money is often for show but sometimes when the family is poor some is kept. As long as you have a good relationship with her family and her, then you can discuss with them and not with strangers on an internet forum.

I do get tired of foreigners bashing other cultures traditions and equating this to buying a wife. I guess that buying a diamond ring for the same amount as most sinsod is ok though.

Do you ever tire if Thais bashing western cultures and continuing the anachronistic practice of sinsod, also known as bleeding foreigners?

[Oceanbat]

Don't marry her, no dowry then.

Agree

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ezzra]

The downside of the OP idea that if thing goes sour you can sue for the sin sod back,

but with building a house in lieu of the dowry it will be very hard to retrieve...

[TechnikaIII]

How many kids does she have? Her first marriage? Don't expect a lot of helpful, polite responses from this bunch. There would still need to be some money shown at the wedding or it would be total loss of face for the Thai family to let their daughter marry a farang. There's millions of them out there, who are only 20 years younger, who wouldn't expect a Baht, and have the wherewithall to not be reliant on foreign bankbook.

Buy a condo in your name; let her stay in it for free, unless she would rather stay with her parents or rent her own place. If she stays with you until death, leave it to her.

"If she stays with you until death, leave it to her."

... yes, but don't tell the family this. Deaths can be arranged.

[keithkarmann]

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I think its a great idea , if the family will go along with it . Sounds like they will being the land arrangement . Rather than a lease I would get a usfruct or its called something like that and get it prior to getting married . This gives you total control of the land until you die. But what your doing makes good sense to me anyway . I paid sin sod to the parents felt weard at the time because I had not been in the country much . I also bought them some land which in agreement would be left to my wife . They are both still alive and the land is now in my wifes name .. What does concern me is the fact that you are going to be in very close living status with her family , but that's all a matter of taste . Not every Thai woman gets a house and then dumps her husband throws him out on the street .... When that does happen sometimes theres a pretty good reason ... So not all is Bad in the land of smiles ..

The dowry if paid will be 50,000 baht max, this can be displayed at the wedding. If it is not returned then that would be the end of the relationship. If it is returned to me I would feel confident in our relationship. The 50,000 baht would pay for the start of construction of the foundations after the rainy season this year. The more our relationship developes then the more confident I will feel to put more cash into the house. I am looking to the future and would not consider living permanently in the house for at least another 5 years so there would be no rush to throw a lot of money at the house straight away. One of the reasons for building the house is that I need something to do and I want to build a house in Thailand, how it should be built (in my opinion) and not to Thai standards. The recent earthquake made me feel unsafe in the rented house I am living in, so I would build a house to a higher standard. If everything works out with the relationship and the house I would save about 180,000 baht a year in rent when I eventually move into it. Before we move into the house permanently I can just spend the odd day in it while my girlfriend visits her family.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I think its a great idea , if the family will go along with it . Sounds like they will being the land arrangement . Rather than a lease I would get a usfruct or its called something like that and get it prior to getting married . This gives you total control of the land until you die. But what your doing makes good sense to me anyway . I paid sin sod to the parents felt weard at the time because I had not been in the country much . I also bought them some land which in agreement would be left to my wife . They are both still alive and the land is now in my wifes name .. What does concern me is the fact that you are going to be in very close living status with her family , but that's all a matter of taste . Not every Thai woman gets a house and then dumps her husband throws him out on the street .... When that does happen sometimes theres a pretty good reason ... So not all is Bad in the land of smiles ..

The dowry if paid will be 50,000 baht max, this can be displayed at the wedding. If it is not returned then that would be the end of the relationship. If it is returned to me I would feel confident in our relationship. The 50,000 baht would pay for the start of construction of the foundations after the rainy season this year. The more our relationship developes then the more confident I will feel to put more cash into the house. I am looking to the future and would not consider living permanently in the house for at least another 5 years so there would be no rush to throw a lot of money at the house straight away. One of the reasons for building the house is that I need something to do and I want to build a house in Thailand, how it should be built (in my opinion) and not to Thai standards. The recent earthquake made me feel unsafe in the rented house I am living in, so I would build a house to a higher standard. If everything works out with the relationship and the house I would save about 180,000 baht a year in rent when I eventually move into it. Before we move into the house permanently I can just spend the odd day in it while my girlfriend visits her family.

Sorry Keith, just have to say what is wrong with you?

You are thinking of buying a girlfriend a house, the chances of you living in it after it is built is extremely small.

I know so many white guys that have travelled this road and lost the lot.

You are already suspicious about Sinsot requests, you already know what sort of girl she is (20 years younger than you?).

Rent a house, buy a condo in your own name. These are your only sensible choices.

If you are desperate to buy her a house, let her get a bank loan, you make the payments.

What, she doesn't have a job?

Get real man.

Edited June 10, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[stgrhe]

OP, I suppose you would never dream of paying a dowry in your home country if you were to marry a woman there, so why would you give up your cultural values. However, if you insist you dowry payment should not exeed half of what a Thai man would pay under the same cirmunstances for the same woman. The reason for the is that your furture marrige would have to be balanced between your values and your furute wife's; else your marrige will fail to be hamoneous.

Having said that, if you want to start building a house for your woman, fine do so but do not call it a substitute for a dowry.

I strongly believe a good relation meets three important and mutual criterias: 1) Honesty; 2) Respect; and 3) Love. If your wife to be cannot accept the values you bring with you from your own country, you should really reconsider marrying her.

[larsjohnsson]

You are just replacing one bad thing that you didn't like, with another bad thing

[senor123]

Keith, live your life and enjoy it. My missus is 30 years younger than me and has been married before and has kids. We had a Buddhist do in the village, I paid sin sod and for the wedding. The wedding costs were partially offset by the money the guests gave and the sin sod (except 20k baht) was returned to me after the ceremony.

We built a house in the village and I stay there occasionally but I can only stand it for 2 or 3 days max. Nothing is in my name. I have no wish to spend money on a Thai lawyer to claim my legal share of any assets as it would probably cost me more than what I could recover.

There are a miserable bunch of tight &lt;deleted&gt; on here who have probably got the first coin they ever made.

I have been with the missus for 2 years now and had known her for 4 years before that. I am having the time of my life.

Spend what you can afford, enjoy the ride and don't stress about cost recovery. Us older gentlemen are running out of runway, the plane is not going to get air born so enjoy the view from the pilot seat while you can

[bangkoklasse]

Oscar2 BS.

If you actually have lived in Thailand more than a week at a time and have ever met a Thai man, then you have met people who have paid Sinsod. It is not a foreign scam, it is a fact of life.

Money is often for show but sometimes when the family is poor some is kept. As long as you have a good relationship with her family and her, then you can discuss with them and not with strangers on an internet forum.

I do get tired of foreigners bashing other cultures traditions and equating this to buying a wife. I guess that buying a diamond ring for the same amount as most sinsod is ok though.

If comparing it would be like buying an expensive diamond ring to the parents of the girl And have you ever meet anybody doing that?

[kerrysum]

Generally, and mind you this was years ago, if you were the man and had a home, farm, etc. There was no problem with it.... It was sort of a security for their daughter..... But if you did not have such land or property, then you paid the dowry.... It has changed in many ways over the years, and may gotten a little out of hand..... Especially when it involves a foreigner.... Personally I have seen this ideal all over the charts though out the years. Seen some pay so much money, that it astounded me,,,, I guess it comes from the ideals originally of arranged marriages. Just my two cents, and how much is the cost of the house you wish to build? Guess I was brought up to think that people married because of love, and together built a family......

kilosierra

[1FinickyOne]

You are marrying a Thai lady in Thailand and sinsod is part of the tradition here -- just as diamond rings and overly expensive weddings can be in the West in addition to houses, property and vehicles that get split or lost at time of divorce…

The original custom called for you and your wife's family to each appoint a representative to negotiate for you. It keeps the negotiating out of the family [which you will be part of ] - but since this is not done so much anymore, your wife most likely is the one to discuss this with and let her go to the family with your proposal. My wife did. It was very fair and I accepted. Afterwards came the house where we have been living for 10 years now - and which I always consider a gift to her.

There are many many factors that go into the price and many ways that it can be paid, returned, kept, used partially, depending upon the circumstances of all involved and hopefully a fair arrangement for all can be reached, so i am reticent to comment on specifics. The fact that you have been helping her family already is admirable and is/should/will be looked upon favorably. There is no reason that your proposal of building a house could not be part of the deal.

Good luck to you. I am sure things will work well.

PS - I wonder if the situation were reversed and the custom was that the lady had to pay the man, how many of the naysayers about sinsod would not approve of the custom.

[Craig351]

I think sin sot will be a lot less than building a house

But I understand your situation and if that what you want to do ok do it, but there are many better ways to help her and still keep your money

as others here have suggested.

I'm just thinking to myself how much sin sot they want?