Foreign teachers in Thailand now need education degree?

[Bernard Flint]

I think it's only right that a teacher of English should have an education degree., just being a native English speaker doesn't make an English teacher. That would be like saying because i can drive a car, that makes me a mechanic.

Dont forget some bars in Bangkok will be empty at weekends, think of them

[lildragon]

I think it's only right that a teacher of English should have an education degree., just being a native English speaker doesn't make an English teacher. That would be like saying because i can drive a car, that makes me a mechanic.

Ok. What if the mechanic didn't have a degree in the field of mechanics. But he did have a certificate in a certain part of car mechanics (like TESOL is here) and he had been doing it for 5 years and learnt more on the job than he could of done in a classroom.

Just boot him out for not having the piece of paper?

[Blindside]

Well, I guess if they want real teachers, then they'll need to start paying real wages.

Absolutely!!!!

90000 ++ at a decent International School

30000 - 42000 average in Thai / EP school

Good luck with that if it is true.

[inutil]

To all the diligent teachers. Sorry dudes.

To the people who made a life here and kinda want to continue but might be locked out? Sorry dudes. *though lets be honest, rules are somewhat guidelines in LOS).

To all the rest: who cares? ESL is a market. You have a hundred other options if youve got a bit of experience and a degree (and a white face, arent fat, look reasonably good and professional in a picture, are preferably female, and between 25-35 years old) this wont even moderately affect you. Youre still in huge demand!

If you sit outside those requirements, you have fewer options, but its like 10-90 instead of 100. If ESL is dead in Thailand, then pack a bag and go find one of the THOUSANDS of jobs currently available in China for example. They arent even picky on the nationality like Korea and Japan. Plenty of recruiters out there will literally take anyone with a pulse. Just tick the immigration boxes and youre a shoe-in. And if youre IN china with a visa... jesus, the competition between schools here is fierce. Its simply a lack of supply of English teachers. They cannot get enough. One of my mates taught in the weirdest ghost city in china: Ordos. A city built in the growth boom for over 1000000 people that ended up with about 50,000. If that job exists, then you can bet your ass that theres opportunities all over the country. Just figure it out. Its not hard. The only hard part is that the visa process can take a month or two and will either necessitate a trip home, or a courier to deal with your documents for you. Have at it dudes, its not all doom and gloom!

[rct99q]

just keep in mind many years ago a person with a high school diploma was the norm for most jobs. i remember ads seeking high school graduates only. today a bs/ba is just really the old high school degree. most if not all high school graduates these days go to university and get a degree. so the flow of acceptable qualified applicants will keep rolling in. i mean really does anybody know of anyone who has finished high school in the past ten years who does not have a university degree in something?

[amse]

Mostly it depends on the school, teaching kindergarten an educational degree isn't required (last time I heard), but also remember not only do you have to show the original degree and transcript, but also a letter from the recorder of the college stateing your documents are for real, plus a home country police document stateing you have no criminal record, also a Thai police document stateing you have no criminal record in Thailand. Many schools wave off most of the above, like for instance Kajonkietsuksa schools in Phuket.

[ggt]

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I am just going to throw this out here and hope I can get some information: I previously had no intention of working in Thailand. My fiance and her family are all professionals and have suggested I teach, in order to at least have some daily occupation and not grow idle. I felt I could offer no real skill, so have remained suspect. I do have two bachelors (BS) and a masters (MS). I did major in English in my undergrad. I suspect the only thing others would be interested in is if I taught English. I have no other English credentials, except book writing.

Can I teach here? Do I have a background that would be useful? Am I approximately qualified as my peers?

YES...to each of your questions!

[ggt]

As a point of reference...I was recruited to teach English at the college level here...some years back...with just a high school education...the fact that I came from an English speaking country...was all that mattered...my how things have changed for the good of the students...

[Kit Wood]

Lets hope that amongst all the different types of qualifications that we are all doing our best, following curriculums, improving our own educations at the same time. If we enjoy what we do and do our best what else is there ?

No need to get too hung up, I enjoy teaching, and only just completed TEFL course here in UK. I will never stop learning.....

[GaryAdriaenssens]

Sir

Your honesty is not a trait on here, well done Sir

If the Amount of english teachers vanish, as you suspect, then it has to be a good thing doesnt it??

Many TV members joke about tefl teachers, under achievers, like the ed visa crew, but it,s true and border runs have reduced, due to clean up,s like this.

BTW

To the ed visa crew that actualy have learned to speak/read/write thai, well done, i couldnt learn much, other than basic words,numbers.

But if all the English teachers go elsewhere, is it better to have unqualified native English speakers as teachers, rather than having no one at all?

Just asking like

Most are already unqualified backpacker types!! The real good ones have left for Japan, Taiwan or Korea ages ago!

[mikecat]

I am 62 and have been teaching in Thailand for over 3 years now without a degree but I have been a trainer in both private and public sector and I do have a TEFL. It has been tough going to get a waver from the teachers council thus work permit. I think I am a good teacher, in fact compared to some of the teachers I have seen, both foreign and Thai with degrees, I know i am a good teacher. I am told I am a good teacher by many. However, this does not mean anything to the Teachers council who flounder around coming up with stupid ideas and then changing or cancelling them at a drop of a hat and then reintroducing them again. The Teaching degree is one such plan which as I understand has been put on the back burner. This has not stopped schools using this as a way of getting rid of teachers they dont like or are too expensive. My own suspician is that they are hoping to get rid of all the British, American and Australian teachers so that they can bring in much cheaper English speaking teachers from ASEAN countries with a teachers degree from 2015 onwards. Just a hunch but I bet i am pretty close to the mark. The two points that really annoy me because they make it hard for good EFL teachers like myself is that schools persist on taking on any Tom, Dick and Harry regardless of qualifications or type of visa, just as long as they have a face in the classroom. This sucks for the student, the parents, good teachers who want to teach and the tax payer. Secondly the notion that a degree, be it a teachers degree or any degree is going to get you a good teacher.

Having taught in China I think it is fair to say that the young people there who have learnt English, speak, read and understand the English language better than their counterparts in Thailand. I think this is probably in part at least because the schools take it more seriously. In Thailand, learning English or other foreign activities rate right down the bottom of the list, just about everything is more important.

[KevWaters]

. Salaries are not competitive (out in the sticks in Phrae province, I make 30ish K Baht, and live comfortably, but near any city or tourist center it would be difficult to live on.

I live in Phrae also. Were you part of the group at the Red Head Cafe last Thursday?

This is my second year and the final year that I can have the teachers licence waiver. I'll be returning home next year to do the PGCE

[cardinalblue]

Two comments - age discrimination is rampant here and pretty much can't do anything about it. My guess it exists in all industries as well. My second comment is to the OP - Why would you not send your kid to international school or even bilingual school?

If you taught in the Thai gov system, you should know first hand some of their deficiencies or if you believe these surveys and comparative reports that Thailand ranks near the bottom consistently in the core skills overall and in English in particular....

How are you going to handle your own kid's educational needs while residing in Thailand? Where do you want your child to go to university?

CB

[James999BKK]

I think it's only right that a teacher of English should have an education degree., just being a native English speaker doesn't make an English teacher. That would be like saying because i can drive a car, that makes me a mechanic.

Actually, if you were to use that analogy, it would be more similar to saying that because you can drive a car that makes you able to teach someone else to drive a car, which it does (at least, in the UK it does). Granted it doesn't make you a good instructor but you see what I'm driving at. (excuse the pun)

I agree with you that just being a native speaker doesn't make someone a good English teacher, but neither does simply having an education degree make you a good English teacher. To flip your car analogy on it's head, that would be like saying that because I know how to fix a car that I can teach you to drive, which isn't necessarily true.

To scrap the analogies for a second, all I'm saying is that people who have excellent theoretical knowledge aren't always great teachers, and neither are people who have already learnt the skill that they wish to impart on others. I think that the quality of teachers could be made higher simply by employers conducting a proper western style job interview and also asking candidates to prepare and deliver a demo lesson. If they then considered the outcomes of these tasks and who had performed well in them, possibly even calling back shortlisted candidates for a second interview, it would be possible to wheedle out many of the substandard teachers right at the first hurdle. After this they could offer a good wage on a short probationary period which would then transform into long term contracts with decent pay and clearly stated length, holidays and benefits if the outcome of that probationary period was satisfactory.

But then again I don't have a degree in anything and TIT so yeah, as you were.

[simon43]

I have seen them put a white uniform on the cleaning lady and she is suddenly the school nurse.

Off-topic (slightly).

At a certain 'international school' in Yangon where I work a few years ago as Assistant Principal of adult English language classes, I held the post jointly with the school cook, (because she was related to the school director....).

That job didn't end well

[JimMagee]

There are only a small number of postings on Ajarn that are asking for a degree in English or related field. They always ask for the sky, but will accept less. If you have a TEFL and a college degree, you can easily get a teaching job. I have a BS in business, MBA, and a TEFL and am golden, I can teach English anywhere. My schedule is 100% full now and I'm still getting requests for teaching. i have seen English teachers from countries where English is not the native language, who can speak English OK, but their accent is soooo strong, I can barely understand them. But they are teaching English. Many Thai schools are desperate for English teachers that they may hire anyone who meets the minimum standards.

i will ask all English teachers to teach conversational English first, then focus on grammar. Let's get the kids speaking English, then worry about perfecting their English later.

I was able to retire young with a full pension, so I'm lucky, and don't have any issue with the maximum age requirements.

Best retirement, in my opinion, move to Thailand, teach English (having fun doing so), and play golf.

[lildragon]

I think it's only right that a teacher of English should have an education degree., just being a native English speaker doesn't make an English teacher. That would be like saying because i can drive a car, that makes me a mechanic.

Actually, if you were to use that analogy, it would be more similar to saying that because you can drive a car that makes you able to teach someone else to drive a car, which it does (at least, in the UK it does). Granted it doesn't make you a good instructor but you see what I'm driving at. (excuse the pun)

I agree with you that just being a native speaker doesn't make someone a good English teacher, but neither does simply having an education degree make you a good English teacher. To flip your car analogy on it's head, that would be like saying that because I know how to fix a car that I can teach you to drive, which isn't necessarily true.

To scrap the analogies for a second, all I'm saying is that people who have excellent theoretical knowledge aren't always great teachers, and neither are people who have already learnt the skill that they wish to impart on others. I think that the quality of teachers could be made higher simply by employers conducting a proper western style job interview and also asking candidates to prepare and deliver a demo lesson. If they then considered the outcomes of these tasks and who had performed well in them, possibly even calling back shortlisted candidates for a second interview, it would be possible to wheedle out many of the substandard teachers right at the first hurdle. After this they could offer a good wage on a short probationary period which would then transform into long term contracts with decent pay and clearly stated length, holidays and benefits if the outcome of that probationary period was satisfactory.

But then again I don't have a degree in anything and TIT so yeah, as you were.

That would certainly weed out the wasters and separate the wheat from the chaff. The agency that provides for my school doesn't have this process hence why we sometimes end up with idiots that don't care about the job.

No one has posted solid evidence of thia supposed Ed degree requirements as of yet and I simply cannot see the praricalitly of it. Non-high end schools simply cannot afford the wages. Get the wasters out I agree but do something to keep on the decent teachers with experience.

Those saying "Well those are the rules, piss off home" are displaying quite the level of ignorance IMO.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GOLDBUGGY]

This is not likely to ever happen and for the same reasons you suggested. That they are not going to hire Foreign Teachers with a Degree to teach 7 year old kids English and pay them double salary, even if they could get them here for that price. At the University Level a Degree is already required I think. But I also believe you will see changes in the coming years and as I did in Poland over the last 20 years.

Shorty after Poland ceased to be a Communist Country there was a huge gap in English Speaking Citizens. That from being behind the Iron Curtain for so many years I guess. Odd to see huge Bill Boards advertising in English like Marlboro Cigarettes for example, yet very few people could actually read that. Poland like Thailand realized that they needed English Speakers to become competitive.

So about 20 years ago just about any English Speaking Foreigner could get a job there as an English Teacher with no teaching skills required. But today, 20 years later, you could not get a job teaching English even if you are highly skilled. Or very few and for sure a lot less than before. Maybe only in the Country Schools where nobody else wants to go.

The big difference and what I saw there, and what you will see here one day, is adding English to the normal Teacher's Curriculum and providing free English Courses, Training, and Financial Incentives to teachers wanting to learn English on Weekends and Night School. So instead of importing a bunch of high paid Foreign Teachers it became "Teach The Teacher" so to speak. So now most teachers in Poland know English and it is a class no different than Math, or Science for them to teach now. .

[pinkpanther99]

First of all having a teacher's license isn't a new thing. It has been policy for over 6 years. There are several ways to appease this requirement and having a degree in education is one way but not the only way.

Second of all there are many qualified teachers here in Thailand making low wages and are happy. It is giving them a chance to work and live abroad and build some experience to help them get better jobs back home later.

Thailand salaries aren't really that low for similar positions. China has many jobs paying about 30-40k a month for TEFL positions but they usually add housing and flights. The lower wages in Thailand like 15-20k are way too low but anything above 40k is a reasonable salary.

The problem isn't the availability of teachers it is the mismanagement of them.

Yes, good points made here.

The mismanagement or total lack of any kind of management of foreign teachers was something I experienced too

[pinkpanther99]

It seems from the comments here that Thailand has got a long way to go before it can start demanding people have an education degree to be able to teach English.

I know it was part in jest, but it's quite a valid point, you wouldn't put a white uniform on the cleaning lady and she is suddenly the school nurse. Likewise, you can't turn up wearing overalls with a spanner in your hand and suddenly call yourself a mechanic.

[axact]

Thai schools are finding a great solution to the issues of hiring Farang - Filipinos.

They often have degrees in math, science and education. Most of them speak English quite well to near native. They will work for less, work longer hours and not raise a stink when they are asked to do something beyond their job description.

This is hardly a solution, We employ staff from the local college, English taught by a Fillipino, I cannot understand them & I am English !!! There is a reason they get paid so little, its because like Thais they cannot speak English that English speakers can understand so therefore cannot teach with any compitance.

[nottocus]

This is hardly a solution, We employ staff from the local college, English taught by a Fillipino, I cannot understand them & I am English !!! There is a reason they get paid so little, its because like Thais they cannot speak English that English speakers can understand so therefore cannot teach with any compitance.

Priceless.

[Scott]

It seems from the comments here that Thailand has got a long way to go before it can start demanding people have an education degree to be able to teach English.

I know it was part in jest, but it's quite a valid point, you wouldn't put a white uniform on the cleaning lady and she is suddenly the school nurse. Likewise, you can't turn up wearing overalls with a spanner in your hand and suddenly call yourself a mechanic.

Actually, no, I wasn't jesting.

[TPI]

wheat from chaff comes to mind go get the quals then come back by that time the mass repatriation will have subsided

then plenty of jobs for all fully qualified at the correct salaries because simply supply and demand balance itself in the favor of the skilled

I think that you've got the cart before the horse! There are plenty of job vacancies because there are not enough "qualified " teachers to fill them!

In Thailand about 2000 students in every university graduate in Mass Communications! By your logic everyone of them should be able to find a job!

While unqualified teachers are just that, they are at least keen and train themselves to teach effectivly, otherwise how could they hold down their positions?

Better someone who is keen rather than a "time server" who expects the money because they have a piece of paper!

[TPI]

. Salaries are not competitive (out in the sticks in Phrae province, I make 30ish K Baht, and live comfortably, but near any city or tourist center it would be difficult to live on.

I live in Phrae also. Were you part of the group at the Red Head Cafe last Thursday?

This is my second year and the final year that I can have the teachers licence waiver. I'll be returning home next year to do the PGCE

I'm a Phraeite as well, any chance of a general get together?

[kingstonkid]

First of all having a teacher's license isn't a new thing. It has been policy for over 6 years. There are several ways to appease this requirement and having a degree in education is one way but not the only way.

Second of all there are many qualified teachers here in Thailand making low wages and are happy. It is giving them a chance to work and live abroad and build some experience to help them get better jobs back home later.

Thailand salaries aren't really that low for similar positions. China has many jobs paying about 30-40k a month for TEFL positions but they usually add housing and flights. The lower wages in Thailand like 15-20k are way too low but anything above 40k is a reasonable salary.

The problem isn't the availability of teachers it is the mismanagement of them.

The low salaries of Thailand are ok if you want to live like a backpacker for a year or two and forgo little luxuries.

The Thai government are certainly keeping out more mature teachers who would come if salaries were reasonable.

In my opinion, insisting on a degree before teaching here is over the top. There are a great many graduates in a range of disciplines whose grammar and punctuation leaves a lot to be desired. To have at least TEFLA training is essential. The rest will come with experience

There are experienced English teachers in this country, but no degree, and their expertise is lost. Go to China or Malaysia and listen to the number of people around you who can speak English. It's their second language.

OK I am an older teacher. First i will clarify that I do not do it for the money. I am retired and do it for pocket money and to stop the boredom.

That being said if you look at the living conditions and cost of living here in Thailand and compare it to where you come from you are actually getting paid pretty good money.

Let's face it no one comes to Thailand to get a job as a teacher as the primary reason unless they are a young teacher that needs some street cred back home.

If you stay away from the bars every night 30-40k a month should keep you very happy. If it does not then you really need to look at your lifestyle. Thai teachers make a hell of a lot less as also most Thais do and they live well.

I am sure no matter what people were paid there would still be people complaining.

As to the certification yes you need a degree to get a work permit in most cases. that is relatively easy to do if you want to put in the time and effort at a Thai university.

[inutil]

Sorry dude, youre not.

If you look at it as a job to PAY you a salary and build a career off of, youre getting paid a pittance of what you can get in almost every other market. Thailand is fun. If you have a pension or retirement, its probably a barrel of laughs, but if this is your career, sorry, but no.

There are jobs that pay you well in the LOS but they arent really govt jobs, and certainly not before you get a teaching license. 30,000 is fine for someone with a nest egg, but its not great for someone in the prime of their career wasting their time living pay cheque to pay cheque (or saving meager amounts every month missing out on all the fun that Thailand offers them). Its all about perspectives and as a teacher, the pay simply isnt enough. Im not saying its not enough for a retiree looking to stave off the boredom, but for someone looking to fund further education (to repair the damage caused by years of tefl - genunely sad but true), further training (to keep yourself competitive in the market), or a life after TEFL, Thailand isnt even in the top 10 vis a vis pay, conditions, and job satisfaction. Money CAN be made in Thailand, but its in privates and international schools (or blind luck and/or longstanding connections). Its there for the taking, you can be on a comfortable salary (whereas in somewhere like Korea wages will cap out at 2.5 mill usually), but its the exception rather than the rule.

Good luck though. Im not dogging on anyone who puts in the effort. It can reward you. But for most teachers, its 30-36,000 in a public school with no pay during vacations which is WAY below what they can get in other countries assuming theyre young and have a degree. Throw in a PGCE or any genuine teaching qualification (not tefl/celta) and its obviously way too low.

Edited June 11, 2014 by inutil

[Denim]

Sir

Your honesty is not a trait on here, well done Sir

If the Amount of english teachers vanish, as you suspect, then it has to be a good thing doesnt it??

Many TV members joke about tefl teachers, under achievers, like the ed visa crew, but it,s true and border runs have reduced, due to clean up,s like this.

BTW

To the ed visa crew that actualy have learned to speak/read/write thai, well done, i couldnt learn much, other than basic words,numbers.

But if all the English teachers go elsewhere, is it better to have unqualified native English speakers as teachers, rather than having no one at all?

Just asking like

It's a myth to assume that you need native speakers to teach English. You don't. What Thailand really needs is a decent and well thought out national curriculum for English plus well trained Thai teachers for the lower levels. Smaller class sizes would also help. However , since this is Thailand and common sense will never prevail , Thais will continue to assume English can only be taught by native speakers.

[MarkCyr]

If the government goes through with this, it will actually be a good thing. If suddenly there is a huge shortage of teachers, the industry will have no choice but to offer competitive salaries and decent work schedules. And when you pay qualified people a professional wage, you are more likely to get professional behavior and results.

This is not to say that people without qualifications can't be great teachers. On the contrary. Teaching is more about your attitude and willingness to connect than it is about qualifications. But if wages go up, then those who wish to teach in Thailand can go the extra mile to get qualifications, and then live much more comfortably in Thailand when they start working.

[SlyAnimal]

The government won't make it a requirement to have a BEdu, if they did they'd need to adhere to the same standard for Thai teachers as well.

But what they might do, is replace the Teacher's licence tests (which seem to have been scrapped, grrr I only had 2 left) with a 1 year course (Similar to a Diploma in Teaching) which people need to do on weekends. That's what many Thai teachers currently do, and I'd imagine that if they bring in a change this would be the change.

The only thing probably stopping them, is that they'd need to ensure courses were available on weekends in English and Chinese (Since Chinese teachers would need to do it as well). But that'd be difficult to setup due to a shortage of Thai teachers who are qualified + speak English/Chinese well enough. Instead they'll be looking at other options (rather than every weekend) for foreigners, maybe a 2-4 week intensive course in Bangkok or something during October/April.

That's just my opinion, not necessarily based on anything I've heard etc.

As for whether any changes are a good/bad thing, I think they'd be good changes for places like Phuket/Bangkok/Pattaya where schools have a lot of choice between teachers, but often simply pick the youngest/most handsome rather than a teacher who's actually going to be a decent teacher. But in the countryside, there's not as much choice, and if they make the requirements for teachers more strict, then the choices get even slimmer.