British goiverment Visa RANT

[Frank James]

Sounds very similar to the process for getting a tourist visa to the US. Any little thing they can snag you on, they will. The solo interview can be very intimidating for a Thai person, and it seems unreasonable that they don't allow the spouse to at least sit in.

Take her to Bali, it's much nicer.

[wooloomooloo]

The OP still hasn't clarified, but I'm certain that the interview wasn't an interview with an Embassy representative but merely the appointment at VFS to hand over the application and provide biometrics.

The OP is being more than a little mischievous in this regard.

[NoshowJones]

A technical knock-out of the worst kind. Having noticed the front page copy of your bank book missing, the interviewing officer could have at least have asked your wife if she had the original on her or whether you, presumably sitting a short distance away outside, could have provided it.

I know how it feels, because I've been there to. You have my sympathy, but don't let it put you off taking your wife to the UK some time. It is a great country, still, despite the some of the unfortunate people who are its representatives overseas.

A great country???????? Well , suppose it is if you are mega rich, and don't have to walk the streets at night.

[thaimite]

The OP still hasn't clarified, but I'm certain that the interview wasn't an interview with an Embassy representative but merely the appointment at VFS to hand over the application and provide biometrics.

The OP is being more than a little mischievous in this regard.

As stated I was not allowed in.

However my wife told me they asked her a few basic questions, looked at her paperwirkl and told her they would be in touch in 43 to 4 weeks unless we wanted to pay a significant extra amount for a speady refusal.

There was no mention of her being fingerprinted or other biometrics being taken, so I by my understanding this would class as an interview.

[Donutz]

I admit that the oversite of my name on the bank statements was my fault but the covering letter did clearly state that was what was provided. I would hardly call that a tardy application.

I was well aware of the British Government's attude to h9oliday visa applications from a Thai and did attempt to employ the services of an agent but despite writing to a few offering to use their services non replied.

At the end of the day it appears that the embassey looks for any excuse to deny an application and unless you can second guess all their questions you are screwed.

It's was an error on your side but it's rather silly that the embassy won't give people the oppertunity to hand in additional documentation (and delay the decision by say 2 more weeks maximum), or appeal for free and hand in the missing documentation... Or provide some actual service (outsourced to VFS...) by scanning through the documents there and advice about documents that seem to be missing from the application and correct the mistake before the application is accepted... Better yet, direct applications at the embassy so people can actually talk to someone that is trained and ontop of current visa procedures so the customer can be given solid feedback (or simply be given a warning that " you may submit this but some documents seem to be missing you so may wish to correct that first"). Especially of there is not some sort of checklist provided by the embassy to make sure you provide all the evidence you are required to have (thus the visa application mostly being about if said evidence is sufficient enough to see of the trip is affordable, genuine and the applicant is likely to return back home in time).

It will not help your mood to discover (as I did last week) that it is far easier for a European with a Thai wife to visit the UK than it is for a British citizen with a Thai wife to do so.

They can enter under EU citizen's rights rather than the usual immigration regulations.

Last time I checked Brits were Europeans too. And as an EU citizen, the freedom of movement rights apply to UK citizens aswell. Sadly EU freedom of movement rights do not apply to one's own country. A Brit can can his family with minimum hassle and for free to say France, and a Frenchy to the UK. But a Frenchy to France or a Brit to the UK, nope... Understandable if it comes to immigration and wishing to put some safeguards to explotation of the rules (relations of convienance simply to immigrate more easily for instance), though IMHO for both holiday and settlement it shouldn't be too hard to bring family over to your own or any EU country. As a save guard restrict access to the social wellfare system at first, together with the rule of " not being a burden on society" such a liberal law should make it quite easy for families to be together aslong as they aren't bothering anyone.

The OP has some valid points. A while back the guidelines were fairly specific in what information was required but it was altered and now they effectively say to submit what you think necessary.

The other point , and the one that really niggles is in fact the application process. The application is there for anyone travelling to UK from Thailand and everyone is treated the same, a bit over the top when it comes to the spouse of a UK national.

Look at the Schengen visa, the application is 4 pages as opposed to 9 pages for the UK. If the Schengen applicant is the spouse and they are travelling together, you only have to answer about 30 percent of the application. About all that is required is marriage certificate, return air ticket and an itinerary. There is no need for bank statements or travel insurance and the visa is free.

It is something that the UK Border Agency really need to address.

The Schengen application is 2 pages long, the UK application form is just... silly... Also it concerns EU applicants traveling to any EU country then the EU country they are a national of, thus excersizing their freedom of movement. Both the Schengen and UK visa and immigration laws should be in line with this treaty. All that counts is showing that the there is a family relation (passports of both + marriage papers) and making it plausible that the two are traveling together or going to jion eachother. That can be done through a ticket reservation but you aren't obligated to do so, a statement (such as written and signed) from the EU spouse would also be acceptable. Ofcourse if you already have a reservation you can include it to make a more strong application, but if you have no transport reservation that should be fine. No need for any intierary either. Indeed there is no need for bankstatements, Insurance, hotelreservations etc. See more in the " visa's to other countries" section of TV, especially in the stickies about UK and Schengen visas.

[wooloomooloo]

As stated I was not allowed in.

However my wife told me they asked her a few basic questions, looked at her paperwirkl and told her they would be in touch in 43 to 4 weeks unless we wanted to pay a significant extra amount for a speady refusal.

There was no mention of her being fingerprinted or other biometrics being taken, so I by my understanding this would class as an interview.

Where was this appointment/interview, thaimite? Name the building, please.

[wooloomooloo]

Dear Moderator - wouldn't this thread serve more use to the OP and others in the visas to other countries forum? Many thanks.

Edited June 10, 2014 by wooloomooloo

[7by7]

It will not help your mood to discover (as I did last week) that it is far easier for a European with a Thai wife to visit the UK than it is for a British citizen with a Thai wife to do so.

They can enter under EU citizen's rights rather than the usual immigration regulations.

British citizens and their non EEA national family members can, and do, use those same regulations to enter other EEA countries.

For example, those same regulations mean that it is far easier for the Thai wife of a British citizen to enter Germany than the Thai wife of a German citizen.

[Donutz]

Sounds very similar to the process for getting a tourist visa to the US. Any little thing they can snag you on, they will. The solo interview can be very intimidating for a Thai person, and it seems unreasonable that they don't allow the spouse to at least sit in.

Take her to Bali, it's much nicer.

I agree, but I also understand why embassies are reluctant to let the farang partner in: sadly there are chav like gorilla's out there who will cause a lot of trouble even even if they application is ill prepared or not prepared at all. Think "That wife me, we go home, she have passport and ticket, we go next week, give the visa or me will break your bones" type of idiots... Which is most unfortunate for normal, sensable partners who simply wish to be there for emotional support and step (politely and showing understanding) if the visa applicant is confused and doesn't know how to respond durning the application.

Especially if it conerns less common applications such as those EU nationals takign their non EU family to join them, which should be a fast and free application with minimum hassle (close to zero documentation required), but such applications are not common place so embassy staff may acciently (or sadly sometimes on purpose) ask for more then legally required. A polite " excuse me, but that does not aplpy to use, we... blablabla" would be quite handy to ensure a smooth and correct application.

[7by7]

The OP has some valid points. A while back the guidelines were fairly specific in what information was required but it was altered and now they effectively say to submit what you think necessary.

The other point , and the one that really niggles is in fact the application process. The application is there for anyone travelling to UK from Thailand and everyone is treated the same, a bit over the top when it comes to the spouse of a UK national.

Look at the Schengen visa, the application is 4 pages as opposed to 9 pages for the UK. If the Schengen applicant is the spouse and they are travelling together, you only have to answer about 30 percent of the application. About all that is required is marriage certificate, return air ticket and an itinerary. There is no need for bank statements or travel insurance and the visa is free.

The above only applies if the applicant is a qualifying family member of an EEA national; unless they are applying to the country of which the EEA national is a citizen; see my post above.

I do wish people would get their facts right before going of on one!

It is something that the UK Border Agency really need to address

UK Visas and Immigration (not been UKBA for a while) do not set policy, nor do they write the immigration rules.

It is only Parliament who can make changes to them, as they do from time to time.

[7by7]

Marriage certificate etc..

Officially your marriage certificate should be notarised by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

You can try without notarisation, as I note you've already stated that the applicant's appointment is tomorrow. You might get lucky, you might not.

For the Schengen states; yes.

For the UK, a certificate showing the name, address and phone number of the translation bureau used and signed by the translator is sufficient.

[lineofentry]

In my experience over the last four years of visa applications for my wife, Australia (twice)and NZ - can't do enough to help, efficient service and 12 month multiple re-entry granted. in comparison UK (twice)- total negative attitude, did nothing to ease the way, grudging gave up a three month single entry visa each time. I should add I have UK/NZ dual nationality and children living in both countries plus a mother in Australia so all visas were for close family visits. The difference in attitude between UK and Australia/NZ is quite remarkable and I am at a lost to understand it.

Easy Australia and New Zealand are empty, the UK is sinking under the weight.

[lineofentry]

In my experience over the last four years of visa applications for my wife, Australia (twice)and NZ - can't do enough to help, efficient service and 12 month multiple re-entry granted. in comparison UK (twice)- total negative attitude, did nothing to ease the way, grudging gave up a three month single entry visa each time. I should add I have UK/NZ dual nationality and children living in both countries plus a mother in Australia so all visas were for close family visits. The difference in attitude between UK and Australia/NZ is quite remarkable and I am at a lost to understand it.

Easy Australia and New Zealand are empty, the UK is sinking under the weight. Edited June 10, 2014 by lineofentry

[GAZZPA]

Of course IF the UK and every other government posted a list of EXACTLY what documents are required for each type of visa then the problem may not have occurred.

I am sorry if this sounds like common sense but to me it is.

To make it even easier perhaps the UK government could go back to the old system of doing everything in house instead of hiving it off to "save costs".

Erm,, they do,, look it up.

[bifftastic]

To all those who sympathiae, thank you, although I am not really looking for sympathy just a way to vent my anger.

.

To those who state I did not fill out the application correctly, you did not see the application so therefore you have no justification for this claim. I believe it was filled out correctly and the only oversight was mine with the bank statements.

In my defense they were printed from the Kasikorn web site and I did not look at them too closely. My failing eyesight makes it hard for me to read the very small print and I sort of assumed that it would have all infomration there. My bad.

The wedding is the ffirst week of July.

At then end of the day my main complaint must be at the process that does not let me as the husband of the applicant and who is sponsoring her visa have any ability to be at the interview. I know I am by no means the first nor the last to fall foul of the British embassy in this regard. Just let my story be a warning for others.

Firstly, there is no interview.

The process at the VFS centre is just processing of the application, and taking biometric data (photo and fingerprints).

From what you have posted, the only reason the application was denied is that the bank statements didn't have your name on them. Therefore, the requirement that there be enough money available for the trip was not satisfied.

If you submitted a new application with the reasons for refusal of the first addressed, then I'm 99% sure that it will be successful.

I have now completed 4 successful family visit visas for my wife and also helped one other couple who had their first application refused (second one was successful).

The warning that others should take from this, in my opinion, is that you have to do your research before you apply.

Get the advice of those who have successfully navigated this process, and follow it. Carefully making sure that the person making the decision has all the evidence they require. If you do that, they can then tick their boxes, grant the visa, and move on to the next one.

I agree that the VFS centre is very poorly run. My wife was in there for over 3 hours for her last application. I have complained using their feedback system. They have yet to reply.

[7by7]

There is no conspiracy by UKVI nor the UK government to keep visitors, whether they be spouses of British citizens or others, out of the UK.

Neither do UKVI set out to make it difficult; show that you satisfy the criteria and you'll get the visa.

The rules are there for a reason. Two examples:

• to ensure that a visitor can afford the visit and not become a burden upon the taxpayer when their money runs out;
• to try and stop visitors who intend entering the UK as a visitor and then remaining to live there illegally, many of whom are the spouse/partner of a British citizen.

For as long as I have taken an interest (14 years), each year in Bangkok over 95% of UK visit visa applications are successful.

VFS do not, and never have, interview applicants; all they do is take the application, biometrics and fee. If an interview is required, extremely unlikely in a visit visa application, then the interview will be carried out by an ECO at the embassy.

Interviews were more routine when I first became involved in visa matters. In 2000, when it was all done at the embassy, my wife was interviewed for both her visit application and her settlement one. I was not allowed into either and had to stay in the waiting room at the embassy.

With regard to this specific case.

Without seeing the actual refusal notice itself, it is impossible to comment directly on the reasons for refusal.

But the OP gives a big clue when he says there was no name on the bank statements provided.

Without a name, how is the ECO supposed to know who those statements belonged to?

The application form makes it very clear that the onus is on the applicant to ensure all the relevant paperwork has been provided. The ECOs simply do not have the time to chase after applicants who have submitted the wrong document or failed to submit a document or only submitted part of one.

Waiting times are sometimes long enough as it is; how much longer would they be if ECOs did do this?

There is a guide to supporting documents on the UKVI website; but as each case is treated on it's own merits the guide is not, and cannot be, definitive. It is up to the applicant to decide which documents they should provide.

From everything the OP has posted, it is obvious that the reason for this refusal was a poorly prepared application.

As for the long wait between the actual appointment time and his wife being seen; as I have said elsewhere such a wait is intolerable and a complaint to VFS should be made.

Edited June 10, 2014 by 7by7

[superal]

Thaimite , you are not alone . I know of 3 other UK guys all of whom have been married for some time and were denied the tourist visa for their Thai wives but even more frustrating was the fact that 2 of the wives had been issued with a visa to the UK with their husbands a couple of years previously . The reasons for refusals was some small ommision or minor error that could have been resolved by email / fax etc .

I also know of someone who paid £2000 to an agency for his wives visa . Did not start off that much money but excuse after excuse and the fee more than doubled for the guaranteed visa .

My personal experience as follows . I felt that I presented an immaculate visa application for my girlfriend . She has her own business and property and all of the supporting documents were within the application . We were refused the visa because the immigration thought there were grounds for her not returning to Thailand despite the fact that she owns business , property and supports her parents .

Did you know that there was a big enquiry some 2 years ago by the UK Border Agency Inspectorate over the visa refusal to Thai ladies with UK husbands .

[theoldgit]

Moved to Visas to other countries, please restrict answers to giving advice to the OP, though most points have already been covered,

[thaimite]

Yes I was in error with the statement copied but the vivetint letter fid clearly state they wrtevmine and aybthe interview which I.wad not allowed to attend my wife did have the actual bank book to show. This was obviously not left with the application. It would have been a simple matter for the person checiingbtje papers to more the amounts and account numbers of the Internet statement and book matched.

sent from my Internet aware non fruity mobile device

[7by7]

<snip>

I also know of someone who paid £2000 to an agency for his wives visa . Did not start off that much money but excuse after excuse and the fee more than doubled for the guaranteed visa .

No agency can guarantee a UK visa.

Any agency which says it can is lying.

If your friend's wife got her visa, advice from the agency may have helped; but they would have had no influence over the ECO's decision. She probably would have got it anyway.

£2000! You're friend was ripped of by the agency.

Unfortunately, tales from people like the OP who seek to blame other's for their mistakes drive people into the arms of unscrupulous agents such as the one you're friend used.

[vogie]

Somebody in your position should never have a problem.

Sounds like your application was tardy and your post suggests a bit of arrogance in the ease with which you expected to get the visa.

You should have sought the advice of friends or looked at the many threads on Thai Visa that cover exactly what is required.

It is no use bleating at the UK government, you are the only person to blame for not satisfying the criteria.

Time and time again members like the Old Git point out that each application has to be treated on its own merits and you need to tick all the boxes for the EO.

BS. Its not arrogant. I have been with my Thai partner for 14 years and married for 9 of those. As a UK citizen I also expect my wife to be able to get a visit visa also. This is not arrogance, its a basic human right. The OP is correctly complaining about the system or lack thereof for recourse or follow up.

I 100% agree with the OP.

I also agree 100%, but if you are not an illegal immigrant the UK does not want to know you!

[wooloomooloo]

Yes I was in error with the statement copied but the vivetint letter fid clearly state they wrtevmine and aybthe interview which I.wad not allowed to attend my wife did have the actual bank book to show.

thaimite, you did eventually state that the ECO also refused the application on reason to return, which is highly pertinent to the refusal and would require addressing in a further application.

As I stated earlier, your wife has an opportunity, if you both so wish, to make a fresh application, particularly under the premium service, which may allow you both to get to the wedding on time. Think about it.

I know many people in the UK with Thai wives and those wives have made many successful applications for visit visas and, in the main, are quite routine, as long as the i's are dotted and the t's crossed.

Edited June 10, 2014 by wooloomooloo

[bobrussell]

95% of visit visas are granted - the ECO has a few minutes per application. Failure to tick all the boxes puts you into the 5% rejection group. You did not tick the boxes!

This is a bureaucratic box ticking exercise and you have to accept that at the outset. The ECO does not have the time, nor the requirement to chase up missing or inadequate paperwork. It is your job to provide what is needed.

The £90 cost gets soaked up in government spending so don't expect value for money or sympathy from HMG, you won't get and they won't care!

Run away from any agency offering guaranteed visas! Good ones may offer a no win, no fee service but they can give a good indication of whether a visa is likely to be granted from an initial meeting.

It is always much more difficult to get a visa to your own country than another Schengen country, presumably because the country can make up its own rules.

VFS does seem to be doing a pretty awful job for some applicants at the moment from comments made here.

Fill in the missing gaps, pay the £90 for a new application with all the required information.

[metisdead]

A post containing stereotyping racial slurs has been removed as well as the removed.

[Beornfrith]

95% of visit visas are granted - the ECO has a few minutes per application. Failure to tick all the boxes puts you into the 5% rejection group. You did not tick the boxes!

This is a bureaucratic box ticking exercise and you have to accept that at the outset. The ECO does not have the time, nor the requirement to chase up missing or inadequate paperwork. It is your job to provide what is needed.

The £90 cost gets soaked up in government spending so don't expect value for money or sympathy from HMG, you won't get and they won't care!

Run away from any agency offering guaranteed visas! Good ones may offer a no win, no fee service but they can give a good indication of whether a visa is likely to be granted from an initial meeting.

It is always much more difficult to get a visa to your own country than another Schengen country, presumably because the country can make up its own rules.

VFS does seem to be doing a pretty awful job for some applicants at the moment from comments made here.

Fill in the missing gaps, pay the £90 for a new application with all the required information.

Do they really only have a few minutes per application? After wrestling with the UKVI over the past few months I am tired of being made to feel like a number, not a human. I've actually filed (and been granted) a Freedom of Information request asking for information about the training and processes behind the dealing of applications. I'm looking forward to reading what they have to say and hope they don't just fob me off with filler.

[bifftastic]

Do the translated documents need to be aproved by a solicitor? I have this head ache to do tomorrow ...

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, they just need to be translated by a third party who can be contacted to verify the translation (I don't think they bother to do this, once they see the stamp from a translation company). There are many translation companies in Bangkok, some of them can be found right next to Ploen Chit BTS station. Usual charge is around ฿300 per document.

[Tony M]

95% of visit visas are granted - the ECO has a few minutes per application. Failure to tick all the boxes puts you into the 5% rejection group. You did not tick the boxes!

This is a bureaucratic box ticking exercise and you have to accept that at the outset. The ECO does not have the time, nor the requirement to chase up missing or inadequate paperwork. It is your job to provide what is needed.

The £90 cost gets soaked up in government spending so don't expect value for money or sympathy from HMG, you won't get and they won't care!

Run away from any agency offering guaranteed visas! Good ones may offer a no win, no fee service but they can give a good indication of whether a visa is likely to be granted from an initial meeting.

It is always much more difficult to get a visa to your own country than another Schengen country, presumably because the country can make up its own rules.

VFS does seem to be doing a pretty awful job for some applicants at the moment from comments made here.

Fill in the missing gaps, pay the £90 for a new application with all the required information.

Do they really only have a few minutes per application? After wrestling with the UKVI over the past few months I am tired of being made to feel like a number, not a human. I've actually filed (and been granted) a Freedom of Information request asking for information about the training and processes behind the dealing of applications. I'm looking forward to reading what they have to say and hope they don't just fob me off with filler.

What exactly is the question you asked ? Please let us know the response when you get it.

[belg]

and she cannot go as a tourist herself , with a tour or group or whatever ?

well, maybe the embassy has empathy what her expat citizens live here every day / 90 days / yearly begging trip to immigration ?

[theoldgit]

Do they really only have a few minutes per application? After wrestling with the UKVI over the past few months I am tired of being made to feel like a number, not a human. I've actually filed (and been granted) a Freedom of Information request asking for information about the training and processes behind the dealing of applications. I'm looking forward to reading what they have to say and hope they don't just fob me off with filler.

They certainly don't have very long to make a decision, that's why imperative that the application, with supporting evidence, is presented in such a way that refusing an application is going to be difficult, they are setting out to refuse applications.

It's worth remembering that if an application is refused, the ECO needs to write a refusal notice, which would stand up to scrutiny, but if they are able to approve the application all they need to do is authorise the issuing of a visa vignette.

Not sure that the training of Entry Clearance Officers would be covered by a FOI request, but you say your request is granted though I suspect it will be pretty generic, but the guidance to ECO's is freely available online.

[7by7]

<snip>

the guidance to ECO's is freely available online.

Click here for the entry clearance guidance for visits.