No double standards, NCPO tells police, courts and lawyers

[stefb1964]

ok.... if this also will be applied when 'farangs' are involved

[Roadman]

So you think that the proclamation is the end of it????

Reforms don't start for 3 months... He has already cited that the judiciary is to be overhauled to make it more equal.

I don't know if it's the beginning or the end, of it?

I didn't realize that reforms wouldn't start for another three months.

I was simply inquiring if there were any details, maybe some ideas about how the "judiciary is to be overhauled to make it more equal"?

Clearly you seem to be aware of this reform/initiative, can you share any detail/links? Or should I check back in three months?

General Prayuth has not promised anything overnight. He is talking about 12 - 15 months if things go well.

That is sufficient time for there to be enough cases in front of the courts to determine if justice is being meted in a fair and equal sentence for all. He then has the power via Martial Law to also invite judges to come and see him at Army HQ if they are not sentencing accordingly, as he has to date with all the others who have been routing the system. I somehow think that if a few judges start getting hauled in and their sentencing judged by the Army Court then all of them will be sentencing correctly in short time. A few months of the rich getting the same sentences as the poor will start getting the idea through that equality is being embraced and the old patronage system will start disappearing.

Those who are squealing about the civil liberties that are currently being deprived (especially those squealing from within their all time sheltered university lives) should shut the f..k up and let the General in the real world carry on with the medicine that is being dished. Law and order as one of the corner stones of democracy that is long overdue in Thailand is starting to take hold and it should be pretty obvious that the General has no favorites but a genuine love and empathy for his country and his people.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Roadman

[Roadman]

The general needs to start with bringing Thaksin back to face justice at the end of a rope.

And for those who forgot how to tie the knot.

Disagree. Bring him back by all means to face justice as out of all he has the most to answer for, but having the henchman mentality is no different to the Red Bull heir is rich and should walk free for a few ฿ mentality. The judges need to be judged and the General has that power via the Martial Law Act and his Army Court to do that to get them also on an alignment of decisions that reflect fair and equal justice.

[pisico]

Guess this does not bode well for the Red Bull killer . Think he will be away for a

long long time.....

But, but... if my learned Thai professor is right, then he will get away with murder: literally.

According to him, if the transgressor pays indemnity money to the family of the victim, tradition has it that the family will not press charges.

Therefore, tradition trumps crime, whether intentional, negligent or accidental.

Then, even in that egregious manslaughter by Red Bull heir, Thai style, the law is neutralized. TIT

[Roadman]

In times of yore, there were 'the King's Marshalls', the Highest Authority could call in, to correct very grave situations, where Justice had not been able to be served. I'm not speaking of vigilante, or death squad here, it was a very select small team of very respected men of high honour and skills, some even say they still exist.

Days of Kings, Princess's to be saved, Dragons to be slayed and Knights to behold. You have it all here now. The KIng is obvious, the Princess can be Thailand, the dragon being the scumbag politicians or the patronage system that has allowed these scumbags to flourish - take your pick.

Putting a modern spin on it I see a General who has the balls to say enough is enough at watching his country being ripped apart and away from the basis rules of democracy by scumbags disguised as politicians. In most countries politicians are rated about the equal of used car salesmen, sorry women are equally as bad so share the crap too, so salespersons, but this lot in Thailand take the cake and are lower than snakes bellies. The General has the Highest Authority for this grave situation and it is called the Martial Law Act which he is lawfully following. The Act even if it does give wide yielding powers is his check and balance along to an extent international bodies like the UN and that also is accepting of the toothless criticism of the said UN. Individual countries leaders like the Yanks and their puppy dog heeler the Aussies should also shut up on the basis of their bias and misinformed opinions.

I would think being in the General's boots the ultimate honour that the General would most cherish would be delivering to the 'one' who has reigned over most of this mess in thai history, a Thailand with the foundation stones of democracy secured, if not flourishing, so that 'one' could rightfully when he sits by his Buddha be proclaimed as the Much Loved and Revered 'one' that his General could wish for.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Roadman

[jope]

In times of yore, there were 'the King's Marshalls', the Highest Authority could call in, to correct very grave situations, where Justice had not been able to be served. I'm not speaking of vigilante, or death squad here, it was a very select small team of very respected men of high honour and skills, some even say they still exist.

Days of Kings, Princess's to be saved, Dragons to be slayed and Knights to behold. You have it all here now. The KIng is obvious, the Princess can be Thailand, the dragon being the scumbag politicians or the patronage system that has allowed these scumbags to flourish - take your pick.

Putting a modern spin on it I see a General who has the balls to say enough is enough at watching his country being ripped apart and away from the basis rules of democracy by scumbags disguised as politicians. In most countries politicians are rated about the equal of used car salesmen, sorry women are equally as bad so share the crap too, so salespersons, but this lot in Thailand take the cake and are lower than snakes bellies. The General has the Highest Authority for this grave situation and it is called the Martial Law Act which he is lawfully following. The Act even if it does give wide yielding powers is his check and balance along to an extent international bodies like the UN and that also is accepting of the toothless criticism of the said UN. Individual countries leaders like the Yanks and their puppy dog heeler the Aussies should also shut up on the basis of their bias and misinformed opinions.

I would think being in the General's boots the ultimate honour that the General would most cherish would be delivering to the 'one' who has reigned over most of this mess in thai history, a Thailand with the foundation stones of democracy secured, if not flourishing, so that 'one' could rightfully when he sits by his Buddha be proclaimed as the Much Loved and Revered 'one' that his General could wish for.

King's Marshalls? Princesses to be saved?? Knights??? Dragons????

Bloody hell, this forum is getting better by the minute. And I thought it is the year 2014.

But please, continue. A good laugh is always welcome.

[pomchop]

A good start wouldl be the immediate trial of the the "burn Bangkok down" / "bring your petrol bombs" group.

Sure along with the close the airports bunch. No double standards.

[Mab]

Avoiding corruption wont do it because they changed the definition of corrupting. Values shifting.

[Chris Lawrence]

So you think that the proclamation is the end of it????

Reforms don't start for 3 months... He has already cited that the judiciary is to be overhauled to make it more equal.

I don't know if it's the beginning or the end, of it?

I didn't realize that reforms wouldn't start for another three months.

I was simply inquiring if there were any details, maybe some ideas about how the "judiciary is to be overhauled to make it more equal"?

Clearly you seem to be aware of this reform/initiative, can you share any detail/links? Or should I check back in three months?

Yours is a good idea--go and check back in 3 months. for gods sake stop bashing the bloke.

Making a law does not change anything, nor issuing a proclamation, nor flaming someone... reasonable doubt is an indication of both history and the general conditions -- no pun intended. Many would like to see a change in the way the judiciary judges cases (red bull heirs, killers off scot-free because of family, and the list is quite long). Few expect any real result. Right now, this instant, if you have money or access to money you walk, if you are poor no one cares if you talk -- and welcome to your chain gang.

Many would like to see that change. Especially the Thais. But none expect it.

Every coup has failed in its goals. The current leader was part of the last failed coup, as well as Suthep and Abhisit. Note the word failed, and previous so as not to believe the current junta is being criticized.

Unfortunately, there is already one precedent. Abhisit "warned" the general about any amnesty. There was no reply from the junta whatsoever. Who is Abhisit to warn the military, when they are so obviously in control? It makes many people wonder...many who do not hate the general or adore Thaksin...and they wonder 'who is controlling the military'?

The problem is that many basic questions are being raised that have no answers at all.

The sound of silence is not reassuring, as Giman and Sarfunfunkel once said.

I really hope we are looking at change, the Thai people deserve that and need it, some desperately. If history is any indicator, we are only seeing cosmetic reforms and empty words.

I hope I am wrong. I really, sincerely hope I am wrong. The history books suggest my hopes are unfounded.

Well said Fang.

The Judiciary of Thailand (Thai: ฝ่ายตุลาการไทย; RTGS: Fai Tulakan Thai) is composed of three distinct systems: the Court of Justice system, the Administrative Court system and the Constitutional Court of Thailand. The current judicial system is organised in accordance with the 2007 Constitution of Thailand.

The Asian Human Rights Commission called the Thai legal system a "mess" and called for a drastic overhaul of Thailand's criminal procedures. It cited the rampant use of forced confessions, and the fact that even a senior justice ministry official admitted that 30% of cases went to court with no evidence. There are no stenographic records kept by the trial court and the record is composed of what the judges decide. It also criticized the judiciary for failing to ensure that trials are conducted speedily. Wikipedia

http://www.business-anti-corruption.com/country-profiles/east-asia-the-pacific/thailand/corruption-levels/judicial-system.aspx

"According to the Investment Climate Statement 2013, Thailand's judiciary enforces property and contract rights effectively. However, it should be mentioned that the legal process is very lengthy. Similarly, the Index of Economic Freedom 2014 notes that the judiciary generally enforces property and contractual rights but that it is vulnerable to political interference. On a positive note, enforcement of bankruptcy judgments has been eased and streamlined since 2004.

Litigants sometimes influence judgments through extra-legal means, including bribes. The Human Rights Report 2013 states that even though the judiciary is generally considered independent, it is subject to corruption and outside influences. Companies need to be aware that decisions by foreign courts are not recognised in Thai courts and thus cannot be enforced. Therefore, disputes that need to be settled in court and recognised in Thailand have to go through the Thai justice system."

If your legal structure is not operating in a fair and transparent way, how is this filtered down? The General being part of the last coup, one would hope this experience will be used to improve the judicial system?

Suthep (the kneecapper) may be the sacrifcial lamb to be put on show. Anyone buy a ticket to his dinner?

Edited June 13, 2014 by Chris Lawrence

[Robby nz]

A good start wouldl be the immediate trial of the the "burn Bangkok down" / "bring your petrol bombs" group.

Careful now...equal justice means that people occupying gov't buildings, blocking peoples right to register to run for office or vote would be called before the bar also. We are to lay these political attacks aside, are we not?

I note that the general has not suggested amnesty for those things or anything else.

Unlike the previous PT Govt who were willing to forget so many things including 25,000 + cases of corruption.

[shaurene]

In a way he is like the Messiah has arrived for Thailand. And some of you Western Countries keep your noses out and learn something.

Go, Go, Go General.

[smutcakes]

Do you not think someone should at least try?

Of course I do.

But surely you understand the difference between making a proclamation, and offering up specific, concrete changes to the Thai judicial system?

I guess my definition of "trying to do something" involves a tad more that issuing a proclamation, and hoping that's good enough.

Of course they should try, they have tried 18 odd times already and also been in power for probably the longest amount of any entity since 1932, but sure this time unlike all the other 17 times will be different.

Look they have managed to work out a 3 trillion infrastructure plan in 3 weeks.

For Christ sake the silliness is out of this world.

They have not "managed to work out a 3 trillion infrastructure plan in 3 weeks."

They have taken advice from the relevant departments and agencies and approved the plan presented to them "In principal"

But that matters not to those who are just in for a bash.

So they have taken the advice of the ministries and ministers of the PTP Govt? Or there own people have carried out these studies in 3 weeks?

I can understand the main infrastructure plan being there, as it has been in the pipeline forever, however the airport/water infrastructure seemingly adding on an extra 1.8 trillion baht?

[smutcakes]

A good start wouldl be the immediate trial of the the "burn Bangkok down" / "bring your petrol bombs" group.

Careful now...equal justice means that people occupying gov't buildings, blocking peoples right to register to run for office or vote would be called before the bar also. We are to lay these political attacks aside, are we not?

I note that the general has not suggested amnesty for those things or anything else.

Unlike the previous PT Govt who were willing to forget so many things including 25,000 + cases of corruption.

I am sure the good general will be all to happy to issue himself and his other lawbreakers an amnesty, as usual.

Will be good to see all the 'anti amnesty' protesters come out then.

[Dap]

And yet again, Impressive!

[Dap]

A good start wouldl be the immediate trial of the the "burn Bangkok down" / "bring your petrol bombs" group.

Careful now...equal justice means that people occupying gov't buildings, blocking peoples right to register to run for office or vote would be called before the bar also. We are to lay these political attacks aside, are we not?

I note that the general has not suggested amnesty for those things or anything else.

Unlike the previous PT Govt who were willing to forget so many things including 25,000 + cases of corruption.

I am sure the good general will be all to happy to issue himself and his other lawbreakers an amnesty, as usual.

Will be good to see all the 'anti amnesty' protesters come out then.

"Oh ye of little faith."

[Dap]

Well proclamations are nice, clearly I am in the minority when it comes to understanding the difference between reality and a press release but the Thai judicial system is based on hundreds of years of precedence with a foundation based on Sakdina and one's position in the hierarchy. The legal codifcation of 1805 (Three Seals) is basically made up thousands of scenario, examples on which outcomes could be adjudicated, whereby one's validity was a function of their position in society.

So while proclamation 63/2014 is interesting, it remains challenging to undrstand how a single, simple proclamation can re-jigger a legal system which has existed for a long time, and is tightly knitted into the societal hierarchy.

I would like to consider it a beginning.

With any luck at all ...

[fab4]

Arisman, sometimes known as the monkey on a rope, turned himself I just a couple of days back so he is enjoying the hospitality of the army right now.

I expect the NACC will want to have a word with him about the company that was set up with his wife to act as some sort of a middle man in the non existent G 2 G deal with China, this may be their opportunity.

Hope they don't forget to ask Arisman were he got the money to start his airliner business.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

More BS myths, hoovered up by the usual suspects and regurgitated as TVF Facts

New Gen Airways denies trade ties with Arisman, wife

Bamrung Amnatcharoenrit

The Nation January 8, 2014 1:00 am

New Gen Airways, a new chartered carrier, denied yesterday that it was commercially connected with the politician couple Arisman and Rapipun Pongrueangrong in any form, including management, thereby ending a controversy over the red shirts' involvement as shareholders or nominees.

The airline also ruled out any future joint investment with the couple, saying it had enough capital to operate and expand its business by itself.

"There's no need to have new shareholders to help," executive chairman Pramook Chaiyawan said.

Six key executives from the airline held a press conference to clear doubts from the media. The news of the airline's launch went viral over New Year when Rapipun posted a picture of herself with the airline's aircraft on her Facebookpage along with the message: "Let (me) introduce a new airline to you...but not officially launched...surely you can get (on) soon".

The airline acknowledged that its marketing team had welcomed the couple on their visit, but only as "potential customers" of its charter-flight service.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/New-Gen-Airways-denies-trade-ties-with-Arisman-wif-30223723.html

[fab4]

The general needs to start with bringing Thaksin back to face justice at the end of a rope.

And for those who forgot how to tie the knot.

I know how to work out the drop-lengths too!

You bring the rope, I'll do the maths

In your own words

"What's worse economic crime or inciting acts of violent terrorism and murder"?

[ginjag]

The general needs to start with bringing Thaksin back to face justice at the end of a rope.

And for those who forgot how to tie the knot.

I know how to work out the drop-lengths too!

You bring the rope, I'll do the maths

In your own words

"What's worse economic crime or inciting acts of violent terrorism and murder"?

Coming back to justice ??? the Thaksin drug missing kids ?? BKK siege ?? red paid gangs ??? Red leaders inciting mega violence ???? ok there were minor opposition incidents I say minor if you look at the whole package. and now the ongoing government corruption enquiries. you see it all had to stop. and only the army were in a position to do it---NOT elections. (but doesn't this look nice to print as this is democratic process)

[Stradavarius37]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

That is correct and when one side committed over 90% of the deaths and injuries over the last 6 months, 100% committed voter fraud over the last 12 months and over 90% committed corruption over the last 3 years then one can be guaranteed that the 90% and over will say without a doubt they are being picked on.

I say to them….Don't break they law then.

Reading this post gave me a headache - You can't throw percentages around without labeling them with identifications.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Stradavarius37

[fab4]

The general needs to start with bringing Thaksin back to face justice at the end of a rope.

And for those who forgot how to tie the knot.

I know how to work out the drop-lengths too!

You bring the rope, I'll do the maths

In your own words

"What's worse economic crime or inciting acts of violent terrorism and murder"?

Coming back to justice ??? the Thaksin drug missing kids ?? BKK siege ?? red paid gangs ??? Red leaders inciting mega violence ???? ok there were minor opposition incidents I say minor if you look at the whole package. and now the ongoing government corruption enquiries. you see it all had to stop. and only the army were in a position to do it---NOT elections. (but doesn't this look nice to print as this is democratic process)

As usual you missed the point of my post.

[wwest5829]

A good start wouldl be the immediate trial of the the "burn Bangkok down" / "bring your petrol bombs" group.

Careful now...equal justice means that people occupying gov't buildings, blocking peoples right to register to run for office or vote would be called before the bar also. We are to lay these political attacks aside, are we not?

I note that the general has not suggested amnesty for those things or anything else.

Unlike the previous PT Govt who were willing to forget so many things including 25,000 + cases of corruption.

Really 25,000+ cases of corruption? And that is only on the one side? I am not doubting you but I think this does point out a great need in Thailand to sort though cases that have validity and those that are simply politically motivated. Jeez, and I though the U.S. was a litigious society.

[ginjag]

I know how to work out the drop-lengths too!

You bring the rope, I'll do the maths

In your own words

"What's worse economic crime or inciting acts of violent terrorism and murder"?

Coming back to justice ??? the Thaksin drug missing kids ?? BKK siege ?? red paid gangs ??? Red leaders inciting mega violence ???? ok there were minor opposition incidents I say minor if you look at the whole package. and now the ongoing government corruption enquiries. you see it all had to stop. and only the army were in a position to do it---NOT elections. (but doesn't this look nice to print as this is democratic process)

As usual you missed the point of my post.

Sorry, I am so used to you just knocking anything that is not pro Shins.

[billd766]

Do you not think someone should at least try?

Of course I do.

But surely you understand the difference between making a proclamation, and offering up specific, concrete changes to the Thai judicial system?

I guess my definition of "trying to do something" involves a tad more that issuing a proclamation, and hoping that's good enough.

Of course they should try, they have tried 18 odd times already and also been in power for probably the longest amount of any entity since 1932, but sure this time unlike all the other 17 times will be different.

Look they have managed to work out a 3 trillion infrastructure plan in 3 weeks.

Actually it is 2.75 Tr Baht max. Probably less than the PTP would have budgeted and their budget would NOT have included a further 2,2 Tr baht "off the books" loan either.

Transparent auditable fiscal policy is the way to go and NOT the "state secretive" way of the PTP.

[billd766]

A good start wouldl be the immediate trial of the the "burn Bangkok down" / "bring your petrol bombs" group.

Sure along with the close the airports bunch. No double standards.

Possibly along with the man who made an "honest mistake" when declaring his assets in 2001?

[billd766]

A good start wouldl be the immediate trial of the the "burn Bangkok down" / "bring your petrol bombs" group.

Careful now...equal justice means that people occupying gov't buildings, blocking peoples right to register to run for office or vote would be called before the bar also. We are to lay these political attacks aside, are we not?

I note that the general has not suggested amnesty for those things or anything else.

Unlike the previous PT Govt who were willing to forget so many things including 25,000 + cases of corruption.

I am sure the good general will be all to happy to issue himself and his other lawbreakers an amnesty, as usual.

Will be good to see all the 'anti amnesty' protesters come out then.

Why not? Thaksin tried and he IS a convicted criminal fugitive.

Look what that did to the country.

Edited June 14, 2014 by billd766

[fab4]

Of course they should try, they have tried 18 odd times already and also been in power for probably the longest amount of any entity since 1932, but sure this time unlike all the other 17 times will be different.

Look they have managed to work out a 3 trillion infrastructure plan in 3 weeks.

Actually it is 2.75 Tr Baht max. Probably less than the PTP would have budgeted and their budget would NOT have included a further 2,2 Tr baht "off the books" loan either.

Transparent auditable fiscal policy is the way to go and NOT the "state secretive" way of the PTP.

The High Speed train part of the infrastructure project was quoted at 1 trillion baht. That would leave 1.2 trillion baht of the original PTP Plan and would mean that the junta are aiming to spend approx. 1.5 Billion baht on the "extras" they have added.

The budget for 2015 has already been agreed at 2.575 trillion so where is this extra money going to come from?

On the state economy, Gen Prayuth instructed state agency executives to spend money on projects during the 2015 fiscal year, starting October 1, in line with the NCPO’s strategic plans.

The order was made after NCPO approved state budget expenditure for fiscal 2015 totalling Bt2.575 trillion, an increase of Bt50 billion from the current fiscal year.

It is estimated that state revenue for fiscal 2015 would be Bt2.325 trillion, so the budget for fiscal 2015 would have a deficit amounting to Bt250 billion.

http://www.namnewsnetwork.org/v3/read.php?id=MjcxNzAy

The proposed PTP 2.2 trillion Baht Infrastructure project was not secretive and would have been subject to public and parliamentary scrutiny

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/734028-ncpos-economic-board-approves-3-trillion-baht-infrastructure-projects/?view=findpost&p=7968440

[Bangel72]

The last six months no matter what your views on it seem to have been void of rationality, common sense and reasonable thinking not only about the day your action takes place but also the consequences of that action.

The 'no double standards' statement if they can follow through on it is the single most important, highest value thing anyone can do at this point in time.

Leave the past and your prejudices behind, any mention of sides, or even comments on being red or yellow or anything else make you part of the problem, I am not talking about amnesty here purely moving on and let others deal with past, if the no double standards is honest you are free to unload your prejudice baggage.

[transam]

I hope they are saying, "Nobody can buy their way out of shit"...................

[billd766]

Of course they should try, they have tried 18 odd times already and also been in power for probably the longest amount of any entity since 1932, but sure this time unlike all the other 17 times will be different.

Look they have managed to work out a 3 trillion infrastructure plan in 3 weeks.

Actually it is 2.75 Tr Baht max. Probably less than the PTP would have budgeted and their budget would NOT have included a further 2,2 Tr baht "off the books" loan either.

Transparent auditable fiscal policy is the way to go and NOT the "state secretive" way of the PTP.

The High Speed train part of the infrastructure project was quoted at 1 trillion baht. That would leave 1.2 trillion baht of the original PTP Plan and would mean that the junta are aiming to spend approx. 1.5 Billion baht on the "extras" they have added.

The budget for 2015 has already been agreed at 2.575 trillion so where is this extra money going to come from?

On the state economy, Gen Prayuth instructed state agency executives to spend money on projects during the 2015 fiscal year, starting October 1, in line with the NCPO’s strategic plans.

The order was made after NCPO approved state budget expenditure for fiscal 2015 totalling Bt2.575 trillion, an increase of Bt50 billion from the current fiscal year.

It is estimated that state revenue for fiscal 2015 would be Bt2.325 trillion, so the budget for fiscal 2015 would have a deficit amounting to Bt250 billion.

http://www.namnewsnetwork.org/v3/read.php?id=MjcxNzAy

The proposed PTP 2.2 trillion Baht Infrastructure project was not secretive and would have been subject to public and parliamentary scrutiny

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/734028-ncpos-economic-board-approves-3-trillion-baht-infrastructure-projects/?view=findpost&p=7968440

Wow, quoting yourself now.

The previous PTP government has had a very poor record of financial accountability and transparency it its life (i.e. none). After 3 years they could not account for the first years rice scheme accounts let alone the 2nd and 3rd years. Follow that with the flood relief funds of 350Bn baht and all the rest of the scams they have run,

On numerous occaisons they said there was money to pay the rice farmers but they still never paid them. They lied from day one of their term and now the independent auditors are looking deep into what has happened to ALL the funds.

NOTHING the PTP ever did was open to public scrutiny and they obfuscated (much as you do) when they were subject to parliamentary scrutiny. Do you remember the Amnesty bill that was changed midway and tried to get rammed through at 4.30 am one morning? Or perhaps the president of the lower house refusing to let the Democrats have their turn to speak on many occasions? I and many others do.