Interim government by September

[smedly]

Thailand averages a coup every 5/6 years. This one is no different and will yet again only temporarily silence the will of the people.

They have tasted democracy and free elections so trying to impose a chinese style of appointed rulers is unlikely to be sustainable.

Farangs here bang on about Thai corruption as if it is something special and use it a an excuse to support totalinarism when in fact their home countries are no better. Everything in Italy, the EU farming handouts, US system of lobbying you name it is just a question of money dictating policy and who benefits. Giving the people the vote makes them feel better but alters little. Taking it away, as the junta is doing, just agrivates things. That is the real problem here. Everyone wants a big face and is not content to be the hidden power.

Lets work out the base line for you, then you can comment and perhaps even offer some suggested solutions

1. It is very obvious that Democracy does not work here in it's current guise, of this there is absolutely no doubt - history doesn't lie

2 Several attempts have been made to fix it and failed, we still see the same election abuse - abuse of power - and a government that does not know how to represent all of the people with equal measure, they try to dismantle the institutions that are there to protect democracy and the rule of law, they lie - steal - abuse on every level - the attitude is - we were elected we can do as we like - this concept is fundamentally wrong and is part of the issue

3. We have the constant cycle of banned corrupt people serving their 5 years and getting right back in to start the cycle again

4 We have people in government who are immune to prosecution while in office when they are the very people that should be setting the example

Maybe education is the key - a campaign on TV explaining all the concepts of democracy so that all the people understand including the elected government

In my honest opinion I believe Thailand is not ready for democracy, the structures are not in place to support it and most of all - anyone can be bought including the police and agencies that are there to uphold the law

and lastly - how can any country be run by a criminal living abroad using his considerable wealth to corrupt and influence - a sad state of affairs indeed

My only concern is that General Prayuth will be influenced by International pressure and not take his time and get the job done, Thailand is in a good place right now - take it slowly and do it right

[Chris Lawrence]

Just a small point, called the constitution? Without that nothing will work once the junta is out. The General had a go in 2007? Its a bit early to start singing praise, without seeing the blueprint of how things will work?

Shouting encouragement starts as soon as the gun sounds in the Olympic 100 meters.

It gets more intense throughout until the finish line is past, then mega praise is heard. Lets not get hasty and follow what's happening with relish for now.

Gin, you sound as you are 'head in the clouds' type of person?

[somo]

Thailand averages a coup every 5/6 years. This one is no different and will yet again only temporarily silence the will of the people.

They have tasted democracy and free elections so trying to impose a chinese style of appointed rulers is unlikely to be sustainable.

Farangs here bang on about Thai corruption as if it is something special and use it a an excuse to support totalinarism when in fact their home countries are no better. Everything in Italy, the EU farming handouts, US system of lobbying you name it is just a question of money dictating policy and who benefits. Giving the people the vote makes them feel better but alters little. Taking it away, as the junta is doing, just agrivates things. That is the real problem here. Everyone wants a big face and is not content to be the hidden power.

Lets work out the base line for you, then you can comment and perhaps even offer some suggested solutions

1. It is very obvious that Democracy does not work here in it's current guise, of this there is absolutely no doubt - history doesn't lie

2 Several attempts have been made to fix it and failed, we still see the same election abuse - abuse of power - and a government that does not know how to represent all of the people with equal measure, they try to dismantle the institutions that are there to protect democracy and the rule of law, they lie - steal - abuse on every level - the attitude is - we were elected we can do as we like - this concept is fundamentally wrong and is part of the issue

3. We have the constant cycle of banned corrupt people serving their 5 years and getting right back in to start the cycle again

4 We have people in government who are immune to prosecution while in office when they are the very people that should be setting the example

Maybe education is the key - a campaign on TV explaining all the concepts of democracy so that all the people understand including the elected government

In my honest opinion I believe Thailand is not ready for democracy, the structures are not in place to support it and most of all - anyone can be bought including the police and agencies that are there to uphold the law

and lastly - how can any country be run by a criminal living abroad using his considerable wealth to corrupt and influence - a sad state of affairs indeed

My only concern is that General Prayuth will be influenced by International pressure and not take his time and get the job done, Thailand is in a good place right now - take it slowly and do it right

As I said all your points are equally applicable to Italy. Just swap Taksin for Berlusconi. They have also dabbled with facism as a solution but it didn't work. Democracy for all it's faults does survive because it includes everyone in the decision making process. Corruption exists in all democracies but it is often exposed by the freedom of speach it enshrines. Berlusconi only survived so long because of his control over the media. Coups and juntas also try to control the media ( which is why they hate the internet) and take away that freedom of speach (already limited in Thailand) and make the corrupion invisible which is much worse. Here it takes foreign press to expose the worst cases (slavery in the prawn business in which the armed forces are complicit) Thailand needs more freedom not less.

[JAG]

Love the smell of the Thaksin knob slobbers soiling themselves over having a decent, effective man in charge, because the contrast with their hero couldn't be more striking.

Possibly, but how did it compare with the mess you and your fellow enthusiasts for military government made when you came in your underpants when the coup was declared?

[canuckamuck]

I am impressed with the progress since the coup. There really was no alternative that didn't include eventual war in the streets. Thailand has not allowed the masses the education required to enable wise democratic choices, nor has it allowed the press to speak freely. These two factors were taken advantage of by both sides in the political divide. Because of this, democracy was a pipe dream here. How can the people choose fairly when they are not given the full truth? All along the democratic process has been an illusion.

The best we can hope for here is that the wise choices currently being made continue and a path is made towards free and fully informed choices in the future.

I think elections should be avoided for a few years yet. So an interim government is the only way to keep this country rolling.

[Chris Lawrence]

Thailand averages a coup every 5/6 years. This one is no different and will yet again only temporarily silence the will of the people.

They have tasted democracy and free elections so trying to impose a chinese style of appointed rulers is unlikely to be sustainable.

Farangs here bang on about Thai corruption as if it is something special and use it a an excuse to support totalinarism when in fact their home countries are no better. Everything in Italy, the EU farming handouts, US system of lobbying you name it is just a question of money dictating policy and who benefits. Giving the people the vote makes them feel better but alters little. Taking it away, as the junta is doing, just agrivates things. That is the real problem here. Everyone wants a big face and is not content to be the hidden power.

Lets work out the base line for you, then you can comment and perhaps even offer some suggested solutions

1. It is very obvious that Democracy does not work here in it's current guise, of this there is absolutely no doubt - history doesn't lie

2 Several attempts have been made to fix it and failed, we still see the same election abuse - abuse of power - and a government that does not know how to represent all of the people with equal measure, they try to dismantle the institutions that are there to protect democracy and the rule of law, they lie - steal - abuse on every level - the attitude is - we were elected we can do as we like - this concept is fundamentally wrong and is part of the issue

3. We have the constant cycle of banned corrupt people serving their 5 years and getting right back in to start the cycle again

4 We have people in government who are immune to prosecution while in office when they are the very people that should be setting the example

Maybe education is the key - a campaign on TV explaining all the concepts of democracy so that all the people understand including the elected government

In my honest opinion I believe Thailand is not ready for democracy, the structures are not in place to support it and most of all - anyone can be bought including the police and agencies that are there to uphold the law

and lastly - how can any country be run by a criminal living abroad using his considerable wealth to corrupt and influence - a sad state of affairs indeed

My only concern is that General Prayuth will be influenced by International pressure and not take his time and get the job done, Thailand is in a good place right now - take it slowly and do it right

As I said all your points are equally applicable to Italy. Just swap Taksin for Berlusconi. They have also dabbled with facism as a solution but it didn't work. Democracy for all it's faults does survive because it includes everyone in the decision making process. Corruption exists in all democracies but it is often exposed by the freedom of speach it enshrines. Berlusconi only survived so long because of his control over the media. Coups and juntas also try to control the media ( which is why they hate the internet) and take away that freedom of speach (already limited in Thailand) and make the corrupion invisible which is much worse. Here it takes foreign press to expose the worst cases (slavery in the prawn business in which the armed forces are complicit) Thailand needs more freedom not less.

Somo, I would say corruption is more modern/refined in Western countries, where as Thai corruption starts at a higher level and is somewhat naive and easy to follow. Agree about the junta trying to make itself invisible in its dealings. I believe there was a squabble about purchases the armed service made recently, but that would be hard to find now.

If your judiciary can be bought to have a favourable outcome what does that say to the rest of society? This is where this junta will be assessed as being modern or a throw-back to the 1950's. If the current legal system stays, which has been heavily criticised by western legal analysis, I feel that this situation will be revisited in a few more years. A bit like a groundhog coup?

[smedly]

My final point on this thread and it is something I will repeat for some time on TVF

The changes Thailand needs are massive, I don't think there is one single thing that can be excluded from reforms, this process takes time and is very complex, my only concern is that I think the general is feeling pressure from the international community and seems to want to rush things, I wish he would take a step back and slow down a little, he has massive support from all the Thai people excluding a few who remain defiant at the behest of Thaksins and his payroll

General Prayuth please slow down, this process will take years not months and it needs to be done right this time

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Thailand averages a coup every 5/6 years. This one is no different and will yet again only temporarily silence the will of the people.

They have tasted democracy and free elections so trying to impose a chinese style of appointed rulers is unlikely to be sustainable.

Farangs here bang on about Thai corruption as if it is something special and use it a an excuse to support totalinarism when in fact their home countries are no better. Everything in Italy, the EU farming handouts, US system of lobbying you name it is just a question of money dictating policy and who benefits. Giving the people the vote makes them feel better but alters little. Taking it away, as the junta is doing, just agrivates things. That is the real problem here. Everyone wants a big face and is not content to be the hidden power.

This one is different, but we aren't allowed to talk about why it is different.

PM me if you really don't know.

[somo]

Thailand averages a coup every 5/6 years. This one is no different and will yet again only temporarily silence the will of the people.

They have tasted democracy and free elections so trying to impose a chinese style of appointed rulers is unlikely to be sustainable.

Farangs here bang on about Thai corruption as if it is something special and use it a an excuse to support totalinarism when in fact their home countries are no better. Everything in Italy, the EU farming handouts, US system of lobbying you name it is just a question of money dictating policy and who benefits. Giving the people the vote makes them feel better but alters little. Taking it away, as the junta is doing, just agrivates things. That is the real problem here. Everyone wants a big face and is not content to be the hidden power.

This one is different, but we aren't allowed to talk about why it is different.

PM me if you really don't know.

Maybe not a total groundhog coup as CL amusingly above calls it but the disputes between the two sides have for the past 2 or 3 had the same end game in mind so in that sense this one is more of the same but as time goes by the urgency increases. They all try to ensure the status quo will survive into the next generation and are anti democratic/freedom by nature. However the pressure of globalization and the internet is making it more difficult for ruling minorities to have it all their own way. Ordinary people have become more informed despite all the efforts to keep them in the dark.

[ginjag]

Mobiles-top ups-books-fashion-m/cycles-petrol-NIVEA whitening creams-makeup-7-11 shopping-smokes-drink-toiletries-live alone water/electric-pharmacy-

the list is endless so indirect or direct they all pay tax.

I wonder if you don't have a hairdresser?

Imagine how nice that would be doing all you're writings in a direct talk and also beyond of that it would save you many time you could spend with much more funny things.

And please don't forget the hairdresser really likes talks...

What on earth are you on about ??

My post was a reply that you cut out, for what ?? it told you why I had listed some of the items, because it highlighted how tax is also collected from non tax paying workers.

So easy to understand, but for you ????

[ginjag]

Just a small point, called the constitution? Without that nothing will work once the junta is out. The General had a go in 2007? Its a bit early to start singing praise, without seeing the blueprint of how things will work?

Shouting encouragement starts as soon as the gun sounds in the Olympic 100 meters.

It gets more intense throughout until the finish line is past, then mega praise is heard. Lets not get hasty and follow what's happening with relish for now.

Gin, you sound as you are 'head in the clouds' type of person?

No just elated the Thaksin regime is out on the bin heap.

[pmugghc]

The irony is that without a coup that effectively nullified all existing political process , there are now fewer players to consult and decisions are 'easier'. The general has so far proved to be a man of his word, and has given no indication that he is a power hungry despot. Many Thais like being told what to do and like not having to make big decisions. They learn that from school and other places. So it gives them confidence to see some ONE in charge.

The idea of sharing, and compromise with people you don't agree with, is alien to thinking here. You 'either agree with me or your dead'. Your right to have a minority viewpoint is not part of the culture. So whatever political system develops now, and I hope it is democratic, it may well be different to a western style democracy, and that's OK - for Thailand. I hope that The general is the person to see this through and also that he is well protected during the process.

Since the General has complete control over all media and does not to want to be questioned, I doubt any proof that contratics his words or deeds could be printed or disscussed .You are more than satisfied to accept his motives and his actions even though any voices to the contrary are being crushed. I wish anyone well trying to improve life for the Thai people. I would like them to do it in a way that can be verified by a free press.

Perhaps there is no hidden agenda, no backroom plot, no secret deals being made, but if there is how could anyone report it ? Is the only option to wholeheartedly accept anything said or done must be good for all and justice is being served, because they say so ? They do have the guns and they are the absolute rule of law so they must be right.I would never say otherwise in this enviorment.

Perhaps there is a hidden agenda for ... bigger things. Perhaps the Thai people agree with that agenda too? Edited June 15, 2014 by pmugghc

[Chris Lawrence]

Just a small point, called the constitution? Without that nothing will work once the junta is out. The General had a go in 2007? Its a bit early to start singing praise, without seeing the blueprint of how things will work?

An interim government I believe will still work under the military - most of the constitution has been suspended while it is rewritten and will most likely remain so

Your point is making the assumption there are rules in place for an interim government to follow - although like the Junta this is broadly true - it is not under any sort of constitution

I think the Junta will still be in the background acting like a Senate to make sure the appointed interim government does as intended

So the simple answer to your small point is - everyone has to trust them

Smedly, I understand what you say. Find it hard to trust'em. Like most consumers I would like to know what I am buying. Hope they have a good go and get it very close to being acceptable to all.

[Local Drunk]

I can't imagine they are thinking of getting rid of village headmen. It would be madness in our village if we didn't have someone here with authority.

They surely must have meant they will not get rid of them.

Get rid of them is exactly what they meant. In this village no one thinks for themselves. They wait for the Kamnan to issue the orders and he waits for the democratically elected MP to tell him what to do. To wit: I'm too stupid to think for myself. I need someone of a HIGHER SOCIAL ORDER to do it for me. I think it's called Thainess.

[englishoak]

On security issue, the head of the National Council for Peace and Order disclosed that since the imposition of martial law, authorities managed to seize 88 war weapons, 1.268 firearms of different types, over 7,000 rounds of ammunition and over 300 grenades and bombs.

Sounds a lot dosnt it ? except when you realise its peanuts in reality those numbers should have more zeros if effective... In England & Wales, the number of just firearms voluntarily surrendered in recent arms amnesty and collection programmes is reported to be 40,507 (2003)

I wish people would stop pretending anything has actually been fixed,it hasnt. There is a huge difference making claims with token efforts and actually long term results...

[Robby nz]

I can't imagine they are thinking of getting rid of village headmen. It would be madness in our village if we didn't have someone here with authority.

They surely must have meant they will not get rid of them.

They did mean not get rid of them, have a look at the chart that has been published you will see that everything in red stays.

Personally I think it is a mistake for at present the provincial governors are appointed by the Government (party in power) and the governors in many cases have the power to hire and fire the village heads.

This means that the village heads have to do what the governors tell them, including how to vote.

So the villagers are controlled by the heads, the heads are controlled by the governors and the governors are controlled by the ruling party.

Therefor the ruling party has control over the people in the village.

Does that sound either democratic or healthy to you ?

consider this ;Make the governors elected by the people.

Replace the village heads with an elected (by the villagers) committee..

Set up a national village fund that the village committees can apply to under certain criteria (health, education etc) for funding for their village or groups of villages in case of a big project (School for example).

The committee must provide a budget and timeframe on application and full accounting on completion.

The fund would have inspectors who would look at any projects applied for and sign off on them when complete.

There would also have to be a process within the system where corruption could be reported at any time without fear and it would be taken seriously.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Robby nz

[Fat Haggis]

What makes you think they'll not vote for the people who are currently in these positions? The Governors, and Headmen?

[canuckamuck]

The headmen are elected.