Thai Military continues to inspect rice in silos and warehouses nationwide

[EyesWideOpen]

You do realise that moving vast amounts of rice involves a vast amount of people? From the Yardmen all the way down to the lorry drivers,You think that the Military can't simply arrest and "question" the warehouse owners, and foremen and truck drivers and not get them to "spill the beans" ?

What if some of the rice never existed in the first place? The truck drivers and foremen wouldn't know about that.

That is what my best guess is, that a lot of the rice simply never existed.

Think that is the best way to scam the system. It will be interesting if we

ever hear the actual result of this audit. They may just be quietly brought

in, ill gotten gains clawed back from them, and sent on their way. Just have

a feeling that publicly bringing all these people forward will make Thailand

look bad just by the incredible scope of what happened...

[Thai at Heart]

It's not as big a job as people think.

Even 1 million tonnes in 50KG sacks and say 50 sacks on a palette.

If a counting team was 800 strong, that is only 500 palettes to count per man.

If these are stacked three palletes high and stacked in rows of say 20 deep... It can literally take one man with a calculator a few hours to count out a massive warehouse. I have done many stocktakes in my time and i know it can be done quickly with just a single product on site.

They will have the numbers in within weeks.... The bigger job is reconciling everything down, putting a big red circle around all the bits that don't make sense... then rounding up all the people to explain what each discrepency means.

Of course you may fine when they try to ask questions, for various reasons... people are not availabe as they are out of the country 'on business'.

However.... It is not all about counting rice...

The biggest question the military should be asking... is 'please justify the expences and how it adds up to 70% - 80% of the entire rice scam budget'.

What was the last budget?... 250 Bn baht and only managed to pay farmers 50 Bn before the money was gone?????

That is the elephant in the room my friends, and I can't believe the military are not going down this route to get the real big fish at government level.

First of all, its not palletised.

Its in enormous stacks of thousands of sacks. Then there is paddy, and finished rice with the yield and moisture to consider.

I have no doubt they will have mixed crop years and qualities. All the good stuff with have been sold already, and there will be an enormous mush mash of years and qualities left.

Then of course, who is going to break down these enormous stacks to see what is in the middle. I am no expert but looking at these stacks, they appear to be at least 75x75x20 =112 k sacks. They are huge, and they claim there are 10,000,000 TONNES. At 50kg etc etc. Now go into a warehouse and prove that every stack isn't 70x70x18

There is little chance they will get within 10% accuracy if the storage has been set up to deliberately hide a fraud.

[Thai at Heart]

You do realise that moving vast amounts of rice involves a vast amount of people? From the Yardmen all the way down to the lorry drivers,You think that the Military can't simply arrest and "question" the warehouse owners, and foremen and truck drivers and not get them to "spill the beans" ?

What if some of the rice never existed in the first place? The truck drivers and foremen wouldn't know about that.

That is what my best guess is, that a lot of the rice simply never existed.

Think that is the best way to scam the system. It will be interesting if we

ever hear the actual result of this audit. They may just be quietly brought

in, ill gotten gains clawed back from them, and sent on their way. Just have

a feeling that publicly bringing all these people forward will make Thailand

look bad just by the incredible scope of what happened...

Absolutely. Then it is just a paper chase.

If that is what has been done, it will never be found. Don't forget, the govt buys paddy not finished rice.

Paddy rice yields anything from 55 to 70%. Now tell me 10% cant just disappear with the stroke of a pen.

[Stradavarius37]

Whole lotta farang speculating on this thread - none of you knows anything that's going on here - just wait and see.

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[Morch]

800 people at it sounds much better than the 100 mentioned in previous report, And nice going with the guard and locks.

I don't think they can be expected to find every lost grain of rice, imaginary or otherwise - but enough that they find where

the bulk of it went, for it to be a job well done.

[Fat Haggis]

Whole lotta farang speculating on this thread - none of you knows anything that's going on here - just wait and see.

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That sir would include you in speculation are you privvy to what's going on and how they will conduct these checks? Nah, didn't think so

[Robby nz]

I don't think they're inspecting quality, more the quantity

So they are counting bags and not whats in the bags, waste of money. Whats needed is inspections by people with enough knowledge to not only count the bags but also determine which bags must written off, which must be sold asap, which bags can wait longer to be sold etc. There can be rocks inside the bags and it will be counted as rice.

How do you know they are not checking whats in the bags, does it say anywhere in the OP that they are not ?

Have you never seen photos of how the stick a tube in a bag and rice comes out into a tray to be checked for quality and type ?

You are also assuming they do not have people in each team that are rice experts.

Go back and look at just what orgainsations are represented in the teams, in all probability there are rice experts there, they will also have contact with others outside the teams that they can call on for back up if needed.

The teams have all undergone the same training for the inspections, no doubt they will be well briefed on exactly what to look for.

It would also be reasonable to expect that there would be accountants on each team who will be going through the paperwork, as in one part of the team doing the physical inspection of the warehouse while the other goes through the records.

This will not be the end of it only the start, anything the least bit dodgy they will move in on and do a thorough audit.

In one of the OP's on the subject it was said that any discrepancies would be passed on to the NACC for farther action.

[Fat Haggis]

NOBODY should ever accept the handover/takeover of anything on "faith" alone, that's what stock checks and accountability is there for, I don't know how many times I've heard over the years from various people, "trust me, it's all there, just sign here" , or "I'm not going to rip you off, it's all there", "Hurry up and just sign this mate, I've got another delivery to go to"..

Anyone who deals with stocks, and lot numbers knows full well, that everything must be checked, and checked and checked again, I have caused huge ructions in my line of work by refusing to take things over, based on faith, ammunition being one, especially when you're dealing with large numbers, so many times I've refused to sign for stuff, as there was "No way to verify the contents" I've been hauled in front of bosses for being obstructive and they soon clamp their mouth's shut when I ask them if they witnessed the checks, and would they sign on my behalf" I've pissed off mates who simply cannot be arsed doing their jobs, and neglecting their duties, if I'm signing for 10,000 rounds of ammo, I want it counted in front of me... no ifs or buts.. as I've been stung by "work colleagues" in the past, by accepting something in "faith".. who got the shyt for it? me, the last signature received was mine !!

That's why there's procedures in place to follow the physical, paper, and electronic trails. That's why there should have been something similar in place here, that's why you have audits, so that you're in compliance, and are accountable for what you're supposed to have, Thailand and this chaotic and blatant failure of a scheme should have had policies and procedures in place "This is Thailand" simply isn't good enough of an excuse.

These stock checks, if done properly, and efficiently may still take months to complete. Then all the information has to be correlated, then sent to the power that be for action, and then the Investigations can begin in earnest. There's no point in making accusations of theft, unless you have the evidence to prove it, hearsay will simply not work, and once the evidence is there, and if there's a case to be answered, then proceed and convict and punish those responsible.

[moe666]

Are they also going to check the 10 meter high stacks of rice I have seen at warehouses and storage yards on my travels around Thailand

[bangon04]

I don't think they're inspecting quality, more the quantity

Standard work for a lowly private soldier...counting rice grains.

How many grains of rice minimum per sack?

[Fat Haggis]

No need unless you're a right nasty bastard, all you need to do is take a small weight, 1KG for example and count that 3-4 times to get an average number, and then deduct the weight of the bag, tare it, then get the net weight, multiply that by the amount in 1KG by 1000, (if it's in 1 tonne bags) and hey presto.. you have an approximate number of grain per bag!!

but like I said, if you're a right nasty NCO, you would make them count every single grain!! ...twice!!!

[Thai at Heart]

NOBODY should ever accept the handover/takeover of anything on "faith" alone, that's what stock checks and accountability is there for, I don't know how many times I've heard over the years from various people, "trust me, it's all there, just sign here" , or "I'm not going to rip you off, it's all there", "Hurry up and just sign this mate, I've got another delivery to go to"..

Anyone who deals with stocks, and lot numbers knows full well, that everything must be checked, and checked and checked again, I have caused huge ructions in my line of work by refusing to take things over, based on faith, ammunition being one, especially when you're dealing with large numbers, so many times I've refused to sign for stuff, as there was "No way to verify the contents" I've been hauled in front of bosses for being obstructive and they soon clamp their mouth's shut when I ask them if they witnessed the checks, and would they sign on my behalf" I've pissed off mates who simply cannot be arsed doing their jobs, and neglecting their duties, if I'm signing for 10,000 rounds of ammo, I want it counted in front of me... no ifs or buts.. as I've been stung by "work colleagues" in the past, by accepting something in "faith".. who got the shyt for it? me, the last signature received was mine !!

That's why there's procedures in place to follow the physical, paper, and electronic trails. That's why there should have been something similar in place here, that's why you have audits, so that you're in compliance, and are accountable for what you're supposed to have, Thailand and this chaotic and blatant failure of a scheme should have had policies and procedures in place "This is Thailand" simply isn't good enough of an excuse.

These stock checks, if done properly, and efficiently may still take months to complete. Then all the information has to be correlated, then sent to the power that be for action, and then the Investigations can begin in earnest. There's no point in making accusations of theft, unless you have the evidence to prove it, hearsay will simply not work, and once the evidence is there, and if there's a case to be answered, then proceed and convict and punish those responsible.

Exactly.

At the end of it though, if they bought 20mn tonnes of rice, an acceptable output would be anything from 11mn to 15mn tonnes of processed output, depending on type, moisture , handling and other loss.

Proving there has been fraud is going to be incredibly difficult.

[Ulic]

While the military checks the warehouses have forensic accountants follow the money. Arrest and jail everyone

who has illegally benefited from this program. End of story.

[timewilltell]

Clearly the military knows this program is riddled with corruption and lies. Now just a

matter for them to prove it. Guess with these padlocks, there will be no more late night

shifting of the rice between warehouses... I suspect there may be more than one person

packing their bags and getting ready to leave Thailand. In the past, if you were caught for

corruption, it was a long drawn out process with lots of delays and continuances, ending

up with a tap on the wrist. With Prayuth the Terminator in charge, I think it will be

straight to jail for the culprits, with average Thai people along the side of road cheering....

I would of hoped that the bags used where uniquely tagged anyways to avoid exactly that sort of fraud. Or bound with a unique thread and stamped and the like, damn lets hope they did have some sort of anti fraud measures in place.

I imagine that the warehouses that have been billing the government per bag per month are going to be a bit worried. Especially if they expect some has stolen the stock or if they themselves have been screwing the people of Thailand a bit more.

Wondering if the bags in storage are 50KG bags, anyone know?

You are working from the wrong assumption unfortunately. The scheme was a scheme designed to be corrupt so everything possible was done to hide and obscure whilst sweet talking the farmer about how much he was going to benefit. The usual populist crap served up by politicians who will say anything to get into power yet deliver nothing save to themselves.

It happens the world over of course it's just that here the sweet talking is so jokingly transparent. Never in the field of human history have so many been deceived by so few so obviously!

Along comes the good General with windscreen wipers to clear the field of view a little. Hurrah!

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[timewilltell]

Some believe that the people checking and managing the rice scheme were stupid Thais. I don't think they were stupid, they were simply using their intelligence to hide everything up. The stupidity was in believing they would all get away with it and that the boss would protect them.

The General is not stupid either and has at his disposal people who are well equipped to uncover what has been going on as far as that is possible. Whether the will is there to use forensic accounting to its full extent is another thing as I am sure there were a huge number of people involved to a greater or lesser extent.

The Thai way is to muddle and fluff so as NOT to uncover the truth because its embarrassing and Thais don't like embarrassment any more than anyone else and can handle it much less easily because that is the at Thai culture. That said there are some great things happening in Phuket so maybe this time the clean out will be a little more thorough. We can all hope so for the benefit of the country that we love.

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[Ricardo]

No need unless you're a right nasty bastard, all you need to do is take a small weight, 1KG for example and count that 3-4 times to get an average number, and then deduct the weight of the bag, tare it, then get the net weight, multiply that by the amount in 1KG by 1000, (if it's in 1 tonne bags) and hey presto.. you have an approximate number of grain per bag!!

but like I said, if you're a right nasty NCO, you would make them count every single grain!! ...twice!!!

Wouln't military SOPs require them to be whitewashed, afterwards, as well ?

[HUAHIN62]

I don't think they're inspecting quality, more the quantity

So they are counting bags and not whats in the bags, waste of money. Whats needed is inspections by people with enough knowledge to not only count the bags but also determine which bags must written off, which must be sold asap, which bags can wait longer to be sold etc. There can be rocks inside the bags and it will be counted as rice.

How do you know they are not checking whats in the bags, does it say anywhere in the OP that they are not ?

Have you never seen photos of how the stick a tube in a bag and rice comes out into a tray to be checked for quality and type ?

You are also assuming they do not have people in each team that are rice experts.

Go back and look at just what orgainsations are represented in the teams, in all probability there are rice experts there, they will also have contact with others outside the teams that they can call on for back up if needed.

The teams have all undergone the same training for the inspections, no doubt they will be well briefed on exactly what to look for.

It would also be reasonable to expect that there would be accountants on each team who will be going through the paperwork, as in one part of the team doing the physical inspection of the warehouse while the other goes through the records.

This will not be the end of it only the start, anything the least bit dodgy they will move in on and do a thorough audit.

In one of the OP's on the subject it was said that any discrepancies would be passed on to the NACC for farther action.

The article states the following "Officials will soon verify whether or not the area has the 100,000 bags of the rice crop as recorded." From that its clear they are only interested in the quantity, unless the article ommits what you assume will be happening. But as they saying goes assumption is the mother of all ..... If you have ever been involved in counting bags stacked to the roof and tried to verify the weight and quality of the product you will know that to do that for 9 million tons (the estimated total stock) will take months. You must by hand lift off all the bags. test every bags for contents and quality, then weigh it, restack it separate from the unverified bags and then after the process is completed restack the bags again in their original position (then it still leaves open the grading side of the rice = 5% broken, white rice vs Jasmine rice etc). Nine million tons bagged in 50 kg bags = 180 mil bags = a lot of sweat = mai phen rai.

[Robby nz]

See this morning in the BKK Post that they have found that there are 91,000 sacks of rice missing from one warehouse.

Someone has even gone to the trouble of putting up scaffold to prop up the outside layer of sacks to make it look like the warehouse is full.

That is only one warehouse around 1,800 to go.

[iphad]

Whole lotta farang speculating on this thread - none of you knows anything that's going on here - just wait and see.

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that's what farang are good for..speculating

wait & see?....it's better to say the military is stealing the rice,or too lazy to look in bags,or they are protecting the rich now

than wait for any facts. lol

[Thai at Heart]

See this morning in the BKK Post that they have found that there are 91,000 sacks of rice missing from one warehouse.

Someone has even gone to the trouble of putting up scaffold to prop up the outside layer of sacks to make it look like the warehouse is full.

That is only one warehouse around 1,800 to go.

The figures will be all over the place. Question is, did Yingluck steal it?

[Robby nz]

See this morning in the BKK Post that they have found that there are 91,000 sacks of rice missing from one warehouse.

Someone has even gone to the trouble of putting up scaffold to prop up the outside layer of sacks to make it look like the warehouse is full.

That is only one warehouse around 1,800 to go.

The figures will be all over the place. Question is, did Yingluck steal it?

Try not to make yourself look like a fool.

Of course Yingluck didn't steal it but it is missing on her watch.

Remember what the allegation is........ Negligence not theft.