Westerners Don't stick up for each other

[GOLDBUGGY]

Yah! And sometimes a sharp word from a cooler head in a brawl can get you a kick in the Balls or a punch or empty bottle of beer over the Head to! I am not sure I understand your post or what you expected to hear here? This should be obvious to you!

What I will tell you is that I don't get mixed up with angry drunk men back home, (or especially Women) like I am sure most of the other poster here don't either. So why would I do that here? I did not come to Thailand to fight or flex my muscles! I also don't need 6 shots of whiskey, or 10 bottles of Beer (Courage) to do that either when I have to. In all my time here I have never seen a Farang attacked by a Thai for No Reason! Understand this last statement!

Most of the trouble I have seen here involving Westerners was in arguments over refusing to pay the Check Bin, The Bar Girl, or other Bills like Hotel or Taxi. As most long time Farangs will tell you this has serious consequences here and far more serious than back home. I can also tell you from experience that after living here quite a few years I have never had a problem with prices, when I asked the cost first, or ever been cheated on my Check Bin, after drinking in countless Bars. Shorted on Drinks? Sure! But never ever the Check Bin!

So please let me see if I understand Your Post now. You are discussed at most other Farangs here because they don't stand up for another Farang (whether he is White, Brown, Black, or Yellow) for being so drunk he can hardly walk, but is now in an argument with a Thai because he refuses to pay for all the drinks he had. Sure! To tell you the truth Friend, I have been drunk here many times to but always paid my Check Bin and never had any problems. One of the Girls even walked me home. So I would stand up for the Thai if I felt I had to stand up at all!

I to am very discussed and ashamed also! At Westerners who come here and create problems for themselves and everyone else around them, as it makes me look bad. Guilty only by Association of being a Farang! At least 5 times I can think of I have given the price of a good meal or a package of cigarettes at the airport here, to other Farangs on their last Dollar and heading home. If they get into trouble I would help. But I do not help others who go looking for trouble! Here or at Home.

[sustento]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

You make a good example...

You demonstrate a post-modern, egalitarian paradigm; the kind of thinking which has gained a strong hold in the mind of developed-nations' populations.

However; many westerners are living in SE Asia to escape that whole stream of thought.

Slightly ironic that you try to keep your egalitarian paradigm alive in Thailand... especially when, as a race, we are a minority and are often the subject of discrimination ...in a culture, which itself, doesn't promote those egalitarian values which you hold onto.

I would suggest that westerners should show more solidarity... not only as a stepping-stone, or base, for sticking-up for egalitarian values, but also, because we are a minority yet subject to institutionalized discrimination.

What rubbish. "Post modern,egalitarian paradigm?" And this, boys and girls, demonstrates the obvious danger of small minds in a collision with big ideas. Thanks for the laughs.

Many westerners come to SE Asia to escape pompous, self-serving, xenophobic racists that spout nonsense and attempt to impose their constipated world-view on everyone. "We" aren't a minority until you define "we" and I refuse to be lumped together with others based on race or nationality or otherwise to be subject to discrimination that you seem to want to impose on me. There is certainly no "we" involved with me and people who think like you.

"not only as a stepping-stone, or base"

If you hunger for solidarity with others you consider in some way superior (such as the drunks cited in the O/P), then stay at home, put on a hooded costume and burn crosses on lawns in your own neighborhood. Just be careful of open flames with all the alcohol soaked brains in your cabal.

Wot 'e said

[sustento]

Reading these reponses to Random Sand's posts I feel sad because there are - as usual - so many abusive things dumped on the man. He brought up a valid point. Yet there were some pertinent responses and i would like to add my 2 cents woirth;: first thing is that, not matter how stongly you relate to Thai people as people just like the rest of us, they relate to you -farang - as something alien. Thai people do not help Thai people when they are in trouble. They watch them drown; they watch them burn or bleed at the side of the road - they take pictures. And they gather around like wolves smelling blood when they see someone doing harm to someone - when they see it is safe to join in the destruction.

You obviously hang around with a different bunch of Thais than I do.

[gamini]

This is Thailand many of us come here to get away from western culture. I for one don't susbscibe to your "we and them" culture. I would not lift a finger to help people like you I

[Ulysses G.]

In all my time here I have never seen a Farang attacked by a Thai for No Reason!

Me either. I am not saying that it never happens, but, in my experience, most altercations are caused by farangs - either because they don't understand what is going on here or because they are aggressive weirdos that no one can stand in their own country.

[SaintLouisBlues]

My racial group, right or wrong? I have a friend who routinely loses his temper when confronted with what he perceives as Thai obstructionism. He won't listen to any suggestion that such behaviour does him no good and loses him credibility in the eyes of the Thai. He also goes beserk (he's mid-seventies) when addressed as "Papa". He's living in Thailand but has no interest in things Thai; he's just here for the cheap cost of living and the sex. He speaks Thai execrably, having self-taught solely from his acquaintance with prostitutes. I don't think he's in a minority of one. What would the OP suggest we do with such a person?

Edited June 21, 2014 by SaintLouisBlues

[Stokakrishna]

beau???

[forumuser10]

For the same reason you do not see a Japanese taking the side of the Thai if he is harassed by a German. Just because they come from the same continent does not mean they feel connected with eachother, duh

[louse1953]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

Exactly.I stick up for mates where ever they come from,and occasionally for a damsel in distress.

[louse1953]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

Half of the farang are here on a mental disability. I have come to Thailand many times and only had problems with Taxi drivers on drugs

You may be right,especially the younger ones.When i first moved here the bar owners missus asked my missus what pills i was on.None she replied.Oh,all the others are,for different mental problems and drinking as well.

[louse1953]

Perhaps if the OP provided some background to his origins and previous employments or pastimes one could gain some perspective of what he is really trying to get at?

I stayed two years in Thailand and spent most of my time (80hrs+ week) in my home office; on-line.

Thinking about it; although there are many long term falang residents, there is also a "migratory" falang population composed of those who stay 3 months of the year, holiday-makers, back-packers, etc.

Perhaps this constant fracturing and re-amalgamation of social fabric keeps the individualistic mindset, which we learnt from our native environments, intact. This mindset becomes the "group-think" for one and all.

You have to admit that most migrant populations generally form a common identity and then go on to raise their issues regarding equal rights etc as a group whereas falang in Thailand do not exhibit that behaviour at all.

Farang is not a country nor is it a race.Farang have no common identity besides colour.

[tifino]

you can have white farang, and you can have a black farang, but the thai term is a little different.

Can't recall it at the moment, but the commonality is the cultural similarity of the target culture shared by the black and the white peoples.

heh heh a 'black guava' would look a little off-putting on the dinner plate, all the same...

the 'farang' term is identified, and used not just by the Thai, but also Laos, malay and others. Just spelt a little differently.

[mikecat]

Well there you are, ask a reasonable question regarding an observation and what do you get? A typical selection of put downs from the usual miserable posters on this TV forum. I knew what the responses would be like as soon as I read your post. Guess you wont bother again.

The answer to your question is that you must have come across a fair proportion of the posters during your observations.

[forumuser10]

I saw an old Brit bashing a Thai at Foodland for not understanding his particular favorite type of sallad dressing. I stood up for the Thai, not because I have dark skin, I have white skin, but because the Brit was wrong attacking the Thai

[sustento]

Well there you are, ask a reasonable question regarding an observation and what do you get?

What's reasonable about assuming that just because your skin is the same colour as that of a perfect stranger that you have anything at all in common with them? Do you have anything in common with Albanians or Faroe Islanders?

[mrfaroukh]

Well to be honest the only people who every bothered me in Thailand in the past 5 years were mostly Western people. But you are right too. We should also stand for each other so thai people do not think we are all alone in the foreign country.

[belg]

why would you stick out your next for a stranger, drunk farang while you know that YOU might be the recepient of a knife or a bullet in stead of the cullprit that lost it overhere

[AussieSteve]

Ok here's my view on this, only been here 7 months living with G.F. I have always acknowledged another white face whenever I bump into one at say 7/11 etc. I personally think as a minority group we should recognize that some of us can get into trouble because of misunderstandings of culture or language, and I for one appreciate any help I can get.

I'm not talking about drunks but the everyday situations, maybe not understanding how the BTS or MRT works.

Whenever we see another Farang around where we live or shop my GF always says "look there's your friend", so she expects us to acknowledge who we are.

Often I see replies to these posts from a group of Thai bashes who can't resist the opportunity to put a Thai down.

I have had a lot of help from Thai's; example yesterday went to Pattaya for the day from BKK and dropped my car keys into the water. Result the remote didn't work so I had to open the car with the key. The alarm went off and the by-pass switch didn't work. So there was I and the G.F. her daughter and her friend in this car park with the car alarm screaming. Parking attendant came up, realised the problem went away and came back with a man who immediately know how to stop the noise and got me started.

I think it's an attitude problem that some people have, there are a lot of good people out there of all nationalities, treat everyone as you would like to be treated give respect to them and in most cases you will get it back.

I know some of the posters here will say....... "wait until you've been here 10 years"............ but I really don't think my attitude will change very much.

Guys,...... we should recognize that as a minority group here we should be helpful to each other when needed.

Have a great day, and if you see me in the street give me a smile, it'll make my day.

[soalbundy]

why would you stick out your next for a stranger, drunk farang while you know that YOU might be the recepient of a knife or a bullet in stead of the cullprit that lost it overhere

Splendid isolation,good samaritan's are revered only in the bible,here they end up in the I.C. unit

[joshstiles]

Lawyers!!!!!! Who in their right mind would trust a lawyer in any country to help them. Lawyers are only interested in helping themselves

Sent from my GT-S7270 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[YeaBiGgiEs]

I've noticed this as well and also at times have been guilty of it.

Though I feel that "we" should stick together or fend for eachother when needed, compare notes, share good/bad experiences and assist eachother in whatever we can for the sake of humanity and if not anything more but having come from the same country, HOWEVER the truth of the matter in most cases is that many of us left our home/birth countries because we were not happy for whatever cause/reason. When you travel or move 8000 miles away the last thing/person you want to see or hear from is some needy American, for that matter you could have just stayed put in the USA or whatever your home country is.

We are all here for different reasons and it took a while for me to realize that its almost as if another American is the automatic enemy of which you have no desire to associate with, talk to, assist and let them figure it out for themselves.

[soalbundy]

Lawyers!!!!!! Who in their right mind would trust a lawyer in any country to help them. Lawyers are only interested in helping themselves

Sent from my GT-S7270 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

True in many cases,but let us be fair,who isn't interested in their own well being.They usually do a good job or they,like a bad plumber,would soon be broke for lack of customers.Lawyers,like prostitutes,are as necessary to a city as the sewers.

[louse1953]

you can have white farang, and you can have a black farang, but the thai term is a little different.

Can't recall it at the moment, but the commonality is the cultural similarity of the target culture shared by the black and the white peoples.

heh heh a 'black guava' would look a little off-putting on the dinner plate, all the same...

the 'farang' term is identified, and used not just by the Thai, but also Laos, malay and others. Just spelt a little differently.

You are correct in what you say from a western view point,but i have never heard a Thai call a person of colour from from a western country a farang.They just call them by their colour,which is rather rude,but you try and correct a Thai on that.

[Bigfarang1948]

why would his country of origin have anything to do with it?

You make a good example...

You demonstrate a post-modern, egalitarian paradigm; the kind of thinking which has gained a strong hold in the mind of developed-nations' populations.

However; many westerners are living in SE Asia to escape that whole stream of thought.

Slightly ironic that you try to keep your egalitarian paradigm alive in Thailand... especially when, as a race, we are a minority and are often the subject of discrimination ...in a culture, which itself, doesn't promote those egalitarian values which you hold onto.

I would suggest that westerners should show more solidarity... not only as a stepping-stone, or base, for sticking-up for egalitarian values, but also, because we are a minority yet subject to institutionalized discrimination.

why would I show more solidarity with a western tourist or expat that screws up over a japanese, korean, malay or chinese tourist in the same boat? seems kinda stupid.

[1FinickyOne]

In Bkk one night I saw a drunk farang, his friend holding him back as he was trying to start a fight with a Thai motorcycle taxi driver who was sitting calmly. I was walking past with a friend and told him to wait for me. I went to the drunk & his friend and told him to get the guy in a taxi cause getting into a fight was not a good idea...

And, for my attempt to be helpful, the drunk then wanted to fight me. I walked away while he was clawing to get at ME!… My friend laughed and said, now you know why you don't get involved w/drunks…

[Kasset Tak]

I have tried to help other foreigners in need but some times it backfires. And some people I would not lift a finger to help! One example is the foreigner I did see being beaten after he tried to "hire" a 13year old girl. He complained earlier that evening that the girls working in the bar where over 18!

What so many people do is that when they come here they stop using their head or they do something they would never do in their homecountry...

Thailand have a different culture than our home countries, it's not a safe place as it's still a 3rd world country that tries to grow up in many aspects and alcohol and drugs are big problems among the poor majority of the population!

And all of this we need to think of when we are here.

I try to stay out of trouble, I follow the advice I can get from locals and I make sure that people in the community knows me. But on the other hand pujai ban told me that there where another foreigner living in the ampoe but he had already died 4-5 years ago, so now I'm the only "farang"!

Edited June 22, 2014 by Kasset Tak

[natway09]

How can u be "Proud to be white) ? You had nothing to do with it.

Looking around this country & looking at some of fellow "whites" I feel pretty ashamed. Stick up for them?

Better i just look after myself me thinks

[glegolo]

Posted 2014-06-20 07:01:37 RandomSand

I've seen it plenty of times:

Falang in bother, maybe drunk, maybe stressed in a new country, often being taken for a mug by the locals.

Never have I seen any other westerners stick up for each another. I don't necessarily mean getting into brawls... sometimes just a sharp word from a cooler head can turn a situation around.

I think that this is shameful and makes westerners look weak in the eyes of locals. Obviously we look like we share no comradeship; which is patently untrue.

Does anyone feel the same?

-------------------------------------------------

I am sorry to say this, but you are correct to some extent. People, at least many of them, have a huge problem to even nod or say hallo to another falang. So why expect something at all from that kind of humans.....

But happily there are really good falangs out there, people that care, people that even bother to give a smile when meet... But they are few... If it has to do with nationality I dont know, but the worst of them seems to be brits and americans....

If you have a cold human climate at home, you probably bring it here to Thailand sorry to say!!

Glegolo

[villagefarang]

Posted 2014-06-20 07:01:37 RandomSand

I've seen it plenty of times:

Falang in bother, maybe drunk, maybe stressed in a new country, often being taken for a mug by the locals.

Never have I seen any other westerners stick up for each another. I don't necessarily mean getting into brawls... sometimes just a sharp word from a cooler head can turn a situation around.

I think that this is shameful and makes westerners look weak in the eyes of locals. Obviously we look like we share no comradeship; which is patently untrue.

Does anyone feel the same?

-------------------------------------------------

I am sorry to say this, but you are correct to some extent. People, at least many of them, have a huge problem to even nod or say hallo to another falang. So why expect something at all from that kind of humans.....

But happily there are really good falangs out there, people that care, people that even bother to give a smile when meet... But they are few... If it has to do with nationality I dont know, but the worst of them seems to be brits and americans....

If you have a cold human climate at home, you probably bring it here to Thailand sorry to say!!

Glegolo

More often than not, I find a nod is returned. Just the other day we were visiting Central Festival in Chiang Mai and I took seat at Starbucks while my wife did a little shopping.

A guy sat at a nearby table and he looked like he was doing the same thing I was. We acknowledged each others presence but nothing was said. Finally I finished what I was doing on the iPhone and asked him if he was have a good day.

Eventually he moved over to my table and we had a very pleasant conversation until my wife showed up and it was time to leave. I agree you need to be a little bit selective but I don’t find it difficult at all.

As for sticking up for someone I don’t know, a quick assessment of the situation more often than not, has me siding with the Thais involved. Sorry that is just my experience.