Missing activist's wife turns to junta for help

[Lite Beer]

CRIME
Missing activist's wife turns to junta for help
Thanapat Kitjakosol
The Nation

Pinnapa Preuksapan visits the Royal Thai Army headquarters yesterday to call on the National Council for Peace and Order to help find her husband, a prominent Karen activist who has been missing since April.

BANGKOK: -- DNP claim that Karen felled trees dismissed; Billy's disappearance put down to video clip

The wife of a prominent Karen activist, missing since April 17, has called on the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) to help find her husband.

Pinnapa Preuksapan submitted a petition yesterday addressed to NCPO chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha via Colonel Anucha Chumkham, who heads the Army's PR Division.

"There is no progress with the investigation into his disappearance," she lamented.

Pholachi "Billy" Rakchongcharoen was last seen with the chief of Kaeng Krachan National Park in Phetchaburi before he mysteriously disappeared.

Separately, Kriangkrai Cheechuang of the Karen Network for Culture and Environment yesterday dismissed a claim by the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation (DNP) that Karen people had been cutting down trees in the forest with automatic saws.

"The Karen do not have such heavy equipment," he said.

Meanwhile, in a move to have the case ready for consideration by the Special Case Committee next week, officials from the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) went to Kaeng Krachan to gather more information about the Karen-Thai people's plight and Billy's disappearance.

This follows the release of a video clip showing Kaeng Krachan National Park officials allegedly felling trees filmed by Billy before he disappeared.

In another report, the Protected Areas Regional Office 3 has said it will set up a committee to look into the alleged logging in a week.

Billy reportedly wanted to use this clip as evidence of officials' abuse of authority to back his allegation that park officials were forcing 20 Karen families living in upper Bang Kloy to move to lower Bang Kloy in July 2011. The area in question was incorporated in Kaeng Krachan National Park in 1981.

Then-Kaeng Krachan park chief Chaiwat Limlikhitaksorn has denied using "heavy" techniques and insisted that the Karen encroached upon the forest.

Surapong Kongchanthuk from the Lawyers' Council of Thailand, meanwhile, confirmed that Billy had indeed taken the clip, which showed men wearing T-shirts that are reportedly only issued to park officials felling trees.

He said Billy always carried the clip in a USB flash drive and had copied it and photos onto a computer at home, which were later forwarded to him by Pinnapa. Inquiries by the lawyer's team confirmed that park officials' illegal logging, he said, adding the clip might have had something to do with Billy's disappearance.

"I can't confirm if the officials knew about Billy having the clip before he disappeared," he said.

Investigation into Billy's disappearance has been slow and, so far, no charges have been filed. So the council called on the DSI to take up the case of Billy going missing and the violation of Bang Kloy residents' rights.

"We want the police and the DNP to look into the logging allegation as well as other incidents that stemmed from conflicts between the Karen villagers and park officials," he said.

Pinnapa said she was certain Billy's disappearance stemmed from the help he had extended to the upper Bang Kloy villagers, adding that the Karen would feel unsafe if Chaiwat remained in Phetchaburi.

DSI officials have been working with local police to look up case reports, and contacted the lawyers' team and TV news stations for the photos and video clip. They have also found images showing logs being transported out of the park area.

Pol Lt-General Kornwat Parnprapakorn, chief of the DSI special operation division, said DSI officials should be able to table all facts about Billy's disappearance and alleged human-rights violations to the Special Case Committee for consideration next week.

Saratcha Suriyakul na Ayudhaya, director of the Protected Areas Regional Office 3, said that though the clothing of the individuals in the clip suggested they were park officials, the office-assigned committee still had to determine if the action was a legal move or a deliberate violation of the law.

Park regulations allow officials and state agencies to utilise fallen trees to repair state property, he said. However, if they were found to have processed logs without permission or for official use, then they would be punished severely and their supervisor at the time would also be held accountable.

Saratcha said police had discovered some phone records before and after Billy disappeared, which may help with the investigation.

Meanwhile, Wut Boonlert, coordinator of the Western Thailand NGO, said the conflict in Kaeng Krachan stemmed from the state agency's failure to implement the forest-management policy, and moves by Billy and villagers to protect their rights. He said the state agency needed to adjust its attitude and approach, citing Thung Yai Naresuan Wildlife Sanctuary as an area where five or six communities live harmoniously with wildlife.

-- The Nation 2014-06-21

[thumper101]

Sorry Chaiwat, but it looks like your end is going to arrive quite soon. Seeing as you were the last person to see Billy having had him arrested and detained which you claim was only for questioning.... But now nobody has seen him since.

Then this information and video clip surfacing.

It is all pretty damning evidence that is building up here.

Chaiwat clearly has had him murdered because he was in possession of enough rope to hang him and his department with.

It's a pity for Chaiwat that the PTP are out, there goes any protection he may have had from above.

Looking forwards to reading about his life sentence.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Sorry Chaiwat, but it looks like your end is going to arrive quite soon. Seeing as you were the last person to see Billy having had him arrested and detained which you claim was only for questioning.... But now nobody has seen him since.

Then this information and video clip surfacing.

It is all pretty damning evidence that is building up here.

Chaiwat clearly has had him murdered because he was in possession of enough rope to hang him and his department with.

It's a pity for Chaiwat that the PTP are out, there goes any protection he may have had from above.

Looking forwards to reading about his life sentence.

Also, suddenly the DSI are active.

[FangFerang]

"This follows the release of a video clip showing Kaeng Krachan National Park officials allegedly felling trees filmed by Billy before he disappeared."

What a perfect scam -- have foxes watch the hen house, then kill anyone who might prove it.

Worse, deforestation makes flooding intensify and kills Thai people vicariously.

This is a blatant misuse of power that was using the troubles of a neighboring nation as a cover story.

Not just bad form -- WORST form.

ASEAN is not going to like this...at all. There are lots of implications, and all of them are awful

Please remove this player from the game. Forget the paper tiger of a five year ban...make him plant trees as a full time job for twenty years.

Edited June 21, 2014 by FangFerang

[Robby nz]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Sorry Chaiwat, but it looks like your end is going to arrive quite soon. Seeing as you were the last person to see Billy having had him arrested and detained which you claim was only for questioning.... But now nobody has seen him since.

Then this information and video clip surfacing.

It is all pretty damning evidence that is building up here.

Chaiwat clearly has had him murdered because he was in possession of enough rope to hang him and his department with.

It's a pity for Chaiwat that the PTP are out, there goes any protection he may have had from above.

Looking forwards to reading about his life sentence.

Also, suddenly the DSI are active.

Only one guess as to why and no prizes given.

[EricBerg]

RIP Billy.

So far there's much progress in the anti-corruption fight. I hope Billy's wife and family get the answers they are seeking so they can continue with life.

The rats must be punished. Lock up Chaiwat.

[dukechance]

Sueb Nakhasathien. R.I.P.

[wandasloan]

Sorry Chaiwat, but it looks like your end is going to arrive quite soon. Seeing as you were the last person to see Billy having had him arrested and detained which you claim was only for questioning.... But now nobody has seen him since.

Then this information and video clip surfacing.

It is all pretty damning evidence that is building up here.

Chaiwat clearly has had him murdered because he was in possession of enough rope to hang him and his department with.

It's a pity for Chaiwat that the PTP are out, there goes any protection he may have had from above.

Looking forwards to reading about his life sentence.

Heh. This reminds me of the idiots voters who elected Thaksin in the first election of the millennium. They were thrilled to elect a man who finally would bring action, hard justice to the country - a neo-Sarit dispensing justice with a flick of the hand. Kind of like some people (no names) view Gen Chayuth.

Then, you could have gone to interview all those victims of their own 2001 votes 45 days ago about what they did and how they feel about it. They were camped out in Lumpini Park expressing their buyers' remorse.

You are building yourself up for a very disappointing reality check. A re-watch of the entire "Yes Minister" should be mandatory for all foreigners right now. Because that's where Chaiwat prospers, not in any party or politician (or general). And that is where he will continue to prosper and Billy's family will never see justice, just like the screwed-over, victimised families of all the other activists murdered in Thailand - some of them by the military but almost all of them very protected, just like Chaiwat.

Sarit, remember, is the man who cleaned up corruption in Thailand with a series of public executions, extra-judicial killings and summary justice. That's why there's no corruption any more and the civil service is clean and never would protect a scummy murderer or national park timber rapist in their midst.

.

[khunken]

Sorry Chaiwat, but it looks like your end is going to arrive quite soon. Seeing as you were the last person to see Billy having had him arrested and detained which you claim was only for questioning.... But now nobody has seen him since.

Then this information and video clip surfacing.

It is all pretty damning evidence that is building up here.

Chaiwat clearly has had him murdered because he was in possession of enough rope to hang him and his department with.

It's a pity for Chaiwat that the PTP are out, there goes any protection he may have had from above.

Looking forwards to reading about his life sentence.

Heh. This reminds me of the idiots voters who elected Thaksin in the first election of the millennium. They were thrilled to elect a man who finally would bring action, hard justice to the country - a neo-Sarit dispensing justice with a flick of the hand. Kind of like some people (no names) view Gen Chayuth.

Then, you could have gone to interview all those victims of their own 2001 votes 45 days ago about what they did and how they feel about it. They were camped out in Lumpini Park expressing their buyers' remorse.

You are building yourself up for a very disappointing reality check. A re-watch of the entire "Yes Minister" should be mandatory for all foreigners right now. Because that's where Chaiwat prospers, not in any party or politician (or general). And that is where he will continue to prosper and Billy's family will never see justice, just like the screwed-over, victimised families of all the other activists murdered in Thailand - some of them by the military but almost all of them very protected, just like Chaiwat.

Sarit, remember, is the man who cleaned up corruption in Thailand with a series of public executions, extra-judicial killings and summary justice. That's why there's no corruption any more and the civil service is clean and never would protect a scummy murderer or national park timber rapist in their midst.

.

Who is Gen Chayuth?

You never cease to imply and directly accuse the military of any violation of human rights or anything else.

Well this case has nothing to do with the military and many activists have been 'removed' by the police. But that doesn't fit your agenda.

None of the authorities - including the police, military and forestry heads - have a particularly clean record and the police (& DSI) have an appalling record of investigating & charging those involved.

The actions of Chaiwat would make him a prime suspect but he seems to have 'protectors'. I wonder who.

[wandasloan]

You never cease to imply and directly accuse the military of any violation of human rights or anything else.

Well this case has nothing to do with the military and many activists have been 'removed' by the police. But that doesn't fit your agenda.

None of the authorities - including the police, military and forestry heads - have a particularly clean record and the police (& DSI) have an appalling record of investigating & charging those involved.

The actions of Chaiwat would make him a prime suspect but he seems to have 'protectors'. I wonder who.

I probably never will cease. But tomorrow is always another day. They hold complete power. If they cease doing stuff like killing innocent people and selling slaves and trafficking arms and torturing people, I will (possibly) be the first to recognise and praise that. They cease, I cease, count on it. I completely agree with you about the forestry department and national parks department and police (and many other non-military entities), who in their right mind wouldn't?

But it's the military that has full, complete control of lawn forcement. Control is total, 100% in the hands odf the military. They will enforce or they won't, completely binary - and their choice which to choose. I always hope for the best but I don't expect it. The very fact that Chaiwat is returning to his job "in fairness, because of a lack of evidence" while the military is busy worrying about free airline tickets and marked-up hundred-baht bills gives ME an opinion about the junta's law enforcement priorities — and it has nothing to do with the law. How about you?

But come on. Do you actually wonder? Really?

.

[khunken]

You never cease to imply and directly accuse the military of any violation of human rights or anything else.

Well this case has nothing to do with the military and many activists have been 'removed' by the police. But that doesn't fit your agenda.

None of the authorities - including the police, military and forestry heads - have a particularly clean record and the police (& DSI) have an appalling record of investigating & charging those involved.

The actions of Chaiwat would make him a prime suspect but he seems to have 'protectors'. I wonder who.

I probably never will cease. But tomorrow is always another day. They hold complete power. If they cease doing stuff like killing innocent people and selling slaves and trafficking arms and torturing people, I will (possibly) be the first to recognise and praise that. They cease, I cease, count on it. I completely agree with you about the forestry department and national parks department and police (and many other non-military entities), who in their right mind wouldn't?

But it's the military that has full, complete control of lawn forcement. Control is total, 100% in the hands odf the military. They will enforce or they won't, completely binary - and their choice which to choose. I always hope for the best but I don't expect it. The very fact that Chaiwat is returning to his job "in fairness, because of a lack of evidence" while the military is busy worrying about free airline tickets and marked-up hundred-baht bills gives ME an opinion about the junta's law enforcement priorities — and it has nothing to do with the law. How about you?

But come on. Do you actually wonder? Really?

.

Yes I do wonder because I don't know who is protecting him.

The military is NOT in full control of law enforcement. The police still have that power although some individuals are unfortunately being charged in military courts. In some cases the military are accompanying police on raids - and it's working a lot better than when the police were left to their own devices.

I don't have your paranoia about the military and what they are doing is starting at the top (Thai for example), which is the right place to start. We'll have to wait and see if they follow through with staff and politicians' perks on the airline.

I also have enough knowledge of this country to see that as far as executions, torture, planting evidence, extortion and other abuses - that the police here outdo the military in every way.

If you hate the military that much I suppose it follows that you can blame them for not covering every on going problem with law enforcement.

[wandasloan]

Yes I do wonder because I don't know who is protecting him.

The military is NOT in full control of law enforcement. The police still have that power although some individuals are unfortunately being charged in military courts. In some cases the military are accompanying police on raids - and it's working a lot better than when the police were left to their own devices.

I don't have your paranoia about the military and what they are doing is starting at the top (Thai for example), which is the right place to start. We'll have to wait and see if they follow through with staff and politicians' perks on the airline.

I also have enough knowledge of this country to see that as far as executions, torture, planting evidence, extortion and other abuses - that the police here outdo the military in every way.

If you hate the military that much I suppose it follows that you can blame them for not covering every on going problem with law enforcement.

I'm not sure why I'm doing this. Your's is a silly response. I don't hate the military. My son currently serves in the military. My family has a military tradition. I honour the military. If you think that criticising ill deeds is hatred, ... well, you do. In my worst rant at the most egregious stupidity by a military man I haven't a shred of hatred.

You almost got it, then slipped. The military is in full control of law enforcement. Check out the statement and Order of the three-named coup council when it seized power. The police serve under, and at the pleasure of, the National Council for Peace and Order. The whole country is under martial law. The police have authority as allowed by the NCPO, and are accountable to it.

The Thai Army has killed, tortured and abused more citizens (and completely innocent, submissive foreigners) than any other entity. That's just a fact. And I would not pour water on the police if they were on fire, I actually don't respect the overall police force, taken as a whole. But the army, which I *do* respect, is the biggest killer of Thais in Thai history. There's not a coup in 40 years that didn't end in great bloodshed, with the army killing its own people. I don't like that. I fear for Thailand at that. I PRAY literally that Prayuth is more sane than that - while I also fear he is not. No army worth its name and tradition kills its own citizens, let alone kill them over and over and over so that its general can earn a fifth star as field marshal.

I wake up each day to observe what the army does. When it does good, you may hear it from me first. However the "perks on the airline" are hardly what needs fixing in Thailand. Nor is "fixing" something you do by order and demanding discipline and single, unique thinking. This isn't China and Gen Prayuth isn't Mao. The Thai people even his soldiers that he can order about - and *never* will be no matter his plans to die of old age as Thai prime minister. I only hope he doesn't think they are.

No military dictator of the past has fared well with such top-down discipline, and the Thai people have fared even worse every time.

.

[khunken]

Yes I do wonder because I don't know who is protecting him.

The military is NOT in full control of law enforcement. The police still have that power although some individuals are unfortunately being charged in military courts. In some cases the military are accompanying police on raids - and it's working a lot better than when the police were left to their own devices.

I don't have your paranoia about the military and what they are doing is starting at the top (Thai for example), which is the right place to start. We'll have to wait and see if they follow through with staff and politicians' perks on the airline.

I also have enough knowledge of this country to see that as far as executions, torture, planting evidence, extortion and other abuses - that the police here outdo the military in every way.

If you hate the military that much I suppose it follows that you can blame them for not covering every on going problem with law enforcement.

I'm not sure why I'm doing this. Your's is a silly response. I don't hate the military. My son currently serves in the military. My family has a military tradition. I honour the military. If you think that criticising ill deeds is hatred, ... well, you do. In my worst rant at the most egregious stupidity by a military man I haven't a shred of hatred.

You almost got it, then slipped. The military is in full control of law enforcement. Check out the statement and Order of the three-named coup council when it seized power. The police serve under, and at the pleasure of, the National Council for Peace and Order. The whole country is under martial law. The police have authority as allowed by the NCPO, and are accountable to it.

The Thai Army has killed, tortured and abused more citizens (and completely innocent, submissive foreigners) than any other entity. That's just a fact. And I would not pour water on the police if they were on fire, I actually don't respect the overall police force, taken as a whole. But the army, which I *do* respect, is the biggest killer of Thais in Thai history. There's not a coup in 40 years that didn't end in great bloodshed, with the army killing its own people. I don't like that. I fear for Thailand at that. I PRAY literally that Prayuth is more sane than that - while I also fear he is not. No army worth its name and tradition kills its own citizens, let alone kill them over and over and over so that its general can earn a fifth star as field marshal.

I wake up each day to observe what the army does. When it does good, you may hear it from me first. However the "perks on the airline" are hardly what needs fixing in Thailand. Nor is "fixing" something you do by order and demanding discipline and single, unique thinking. This isn't China and Gen Prayuth isn't Mao. The Thai people even his soldiers that he can order about - and *never* will be no matter his plans to die of old age as Thai prime minister. I only hope he doesn't think they are.

No military dictator of the past has fared well with such top-down discipline, and the Thai people have fared even worse every time.

.

You make a lot of claims here, some ok, some spurious and some akin to rewriting history. Call my claim silly and I'll call yours dishonest.

I've read a fair number of your posts on TV and your denial of hatred of the military is completely at odds with your posts. Almost every one is directed at the military to the exclusion of the police or any other culprits. To repeat: the police are far worse than the military in everything they do. That's THE fact.

Over 2,500 summarily executed in Thaksin's 'war on drugs' by the police. Most activists who disappear have police involvement. Extortion - a daily occurrence by the police. Thais in the main are not fearful of the military but they are of the police. I could go on but I doubt if any argument would change your anti-military bias.

I'm not a fan of militaries in any country but I've never been extorted by them here. However it is downright dishonesty to claim that the Thai military have never held a bloodless coup. The last one was bloodless and this one is the same - so far. Your efforts to rewrite the history of the last coup are a sad reflection on your journalistic experience (assuming you are the person who used to write for Database).

Of course the military are in control of the arms of government just like the PTP were. But it is a complete distortion to say that they & only they are in charge of law enforcement - they are not. The police are still going about their normal half-baked duties of clampdowns and selective arrests of some law breakers (as shown in other TV threads).

The current military coup is far from perfect but there are so many problems to be addressed it is ridiculous to expect instant success in resolving everything. They've started well and shown up the previous corrupt lot in a number of areas but there's a long way to go and, no doubt, there will be mistakes, omissions and overbearing no-criticism-allowed styles of governance (not dissimilar to Chalerm, Plodprasop and a few others).

So far I'd give Prayuth an 8 out of 10 for achievements. Deduct 2 for intolerence of criticism and using military courts to try dissenters.

[tingtongteesood]

Wow there really is no pleasing some people. Can you Thaksin fan boys get over it and stop crying like babies ?!?

[wandasloan]

You make a lot of claims here, some ok, some spurious and some akin to rewriting history. Call my claim silly and I'll call yours dishonest.

I've read a fair number of your posts on TV and your denial of hatred of the military is completely at odds with your posts. Almost every one is directed at the military to the exclusion of the police or any other culprits. To repeat: the police are far worse than the military in everything they do. That's THE fact.

Over 2,500 summarily executed in Thaksin's 'war on drugs' by the police. Most activists who disappear have police involvement. Extortion - a daily occurrence by the police. Thais in the main are not fearful of the military but they are of the police. I could go on but I doubt if any argument would change your anti-military bias.

I'm not a fan of militaries in any country but I've never been extorted by them here. However it is downright dishonesty to claim that the Thai military have never held a bloodless coup. The last one was bloodless and this one is the same - so far. Your efforts to rewrite the history of the last coup are a sad reflection on your journalistic experience (assuming you are the person who used to write for Database).

Of course the military are in control of the arms of government just like the PTP were. But it is a complete distortion to say that they & only they are in charge of law enforcement - they are not. The police are still going about their normal half-baked duties of clampdowns and selective arrests of some law breakers (as shown in other TV threads).

The current military coup is far from perfect but there are so many problems to be addressed it is ridiculous to expect instant success in resolving everything. They've started well and shown up the previous corrupt lot in a number of areas but there's a long way to go and, no doubt, there will be mistakes, omissions and overbearing no-criticism-allowed styles of governance (not dissimilar to Chalerm, Plodprasop and a few others).

So far I'd give Prayuth an 8 out of 10 for achievements. Deduct 2 for intolerence of criticism and using military courts to try dissenters.

Since it is the military, specifically the army, that has seized power, abrogated all civil rights and established itself as unique ruler of the country, I'm not sure who else should be criticised.

You ARE a fan of the military in Thailand. You are an unabashed supporter of their seizure of power and the establishment of a dictatorship. I'm not. It's a rather clear distinction.

To compare the political and civil powers of the military today with the Yingluck or any other civilian government is ludicrous. No civilian government has "control" of the country in any manner. That's what politics *is*. The military, as usual, has completely eliminated the supreme law, all civil rights and has full power to order the bureaucracy - which civilian authorities do not.

Do you actually, really believe that Prayuth is subject to removal by a court because he has (already) replaced senior civil servants with family-connected cronies - as Yingluck was?

Now EITHER you are ignoring the actual power of a military dictator which exceeds and supersedes all legal and political restraints OR you really don't understand what has occurred in Thailand with this eleventeenth military takeover.There is no third option.

You've never been extorted by the military. Therefore everything is lovely. Okay. Of course you are not Rohingya or Cambodian. You are not the cousin of a friend of a brother of a man who is suspected of being a southern insurgent. You are not an Akha.

You are not someone who thinks it is important for a newspaper to print the truth. You are not a person who thinks Thai Visa should have the right to publish and the right to allow comment on that publishing. You don't feel extorted. Very well then. It's a lovely world and dictatorship is a beautiful system, all based on the fact you haven't (yet) felt any personal pressure over it.

I feel differently about it than you feel. I have been extorted many, many times by this and other military regimes in Thailand. Here is the attitude I do NOT have about it: "I'm all right Jack!"

But please do not start down the "it could be worse" track, not with me. I freely admit and even celebrate that it could be worse. I have personally lived in worse places than Thailand, and there are (and were) many others, just in my lifetime. I lived for an extended period under a dictatorship in another country where, if you and I had this discussion-argument, WE would be imprisoned for such an argument over a political point. So things could be worse, I sure grant you that. They always can be.

But spare me the moral equivalencies, okay? Right now things are pretty bad for Thailand. I don't personally see a way they will get better, any more than the army killing 100 people in 2010 made things better. Certainly they didn't get better by the army killing hundreds of people in 1992 (yes, hundreds, we don't know the number) or the army (Isoc) killing hundreds of people in 1976 or killing hundreds in 1973.

There's no obvious way out of this 2014 dictatorship without more killing. We've had our Black Mays and Black Octobers and another month of it is inevitable. Military dictatorships in Thailand rarely end well and this is the absolutely and horribly wrong move at the wrong time by this incredibly unqualified, wrong man.

I have this horrible, terrible feeling that you and others who feel so warm about being under a military dictatorship. I feel you are going to be blaming others when the inevitable revolt begins to boil. When the army kills the first dissenter, it will be the fault of the dissenter or Thaksin or the bloody red shirts. Or it will be that ridiculous Sondhi and his Maha Chamlong. Or it will be Suthep's fault, him and that other violent monk.

Sorry, it won't fly. People have the right to protest military rule, and the military has NO moral right, none at all, to use capital violence against its citizens for using their natural, God-given rights to speak, dissent, gather and petition for change. The military's job is to protect the borders against foreign invasion. Under a civilian government, there might be a point where the army can play a role in quelling real riots (known as The Abhisit-Suthep Defence, and it has a valid point). But the army has neither legal nor moral authority to strip natural rights and kill people over it. Not in any civilised nation, including Thailand.

All the coming violence, every drop of blood is on the hands of the general and his cronies in their crony-ruled rape of this country. But that is in the future, because of course....

So far I'd give Prayuth an 8 out of 10 for achievements. Deduct 2 for intolerence of criticism and using military courts to try dissenters.

8 of 10? That's all? Don't you understand that stifling dissent and military courts and 3am knocks on the door ARE martial law? That's the entire, whole point of the first month of martial law, is the combination of open and secret intimidation and trying to force 65 million into fearful self-censorship like Thai Visa?

By your own definition and criteria, you should be giving Prayuth 11 out of 10 - maybe a 12. To my somewhat experienced eyes, the first month has been a total, unrivalled success. Compared with 2006, this is a FAR more successful injection of fear, threats, restrained violence, usurpation of civil rights. Even the Facebook stupidity shows the military success at suborning the NBTC and turning it into a quisling.

I award 10 of 10 to Prayuth for a successful implementation of his regime. I award/deduct nothing for his ridiculous giveaways, bread and circuses and for merely repeating the Yingluck example of humiliating Thai International Airways' directors as part of that first-month circus. She did the same thing, you know, he's only copying her.

At this point, I'd have given Sarit, Pibulsonggram, Chuan, Thaksin, Kukrit Pramoj and Yingluck an 8 of 10. Thailand is probably not unique about it (think: the US and the whole world in the first month of Obama) but Thailand ALWAYS gives honeymoons, even when not held hostage at gunpoint. And while being a newly elected PM is pretty easy for a few weeks, being a new dictator is even easier. Yingluck skated over the whole fiasco of the 2011 floods "because she is new at the job". And Prayuth is getting that same treatment. I personally think it's a bug, not a feature — the floods established Yingluck's failure as a leader and everyone gave her a pass on it — but either way it exists and there's nothing to be done about it.

And my final score. I deduct two points - yes 8 of 10 same as you - because of the hints Prayuth has dropped about what he intends to do to destroy basic rights in this country - civil rights and political rights, indoctrination of children, etc. If he actually destroys them, I'll be deducting more. I fear, I truly and viscerally fear that he will succeed.

.

[khunken]

You make a lot of claims here, some ok, some spurious and some akin to rewriting history. Call my claim silly and I'll call yours dishonest.

I've read a fair number of your posts on TV and your denial of hatred of the military is completely at odds with your posts. Almost every one is directed at the military to the exclusion of the police or any other culprits. To repeat: the police are far worse than the military in everything they do. That's THE fact.

Over 2,500 summarily executed in Thaksin's 'war on drugs' by the police. Most activists who disappear have police involvement. Extortion - a daily occurrence by the police. Thais in the main are not fearful of the military but they are of the police. I could go on but I doubt if any argument would change your anti-military bias.

I'm not a fan of militaries in any country but I've never been extorted by them here. However it is downright dishonesty to claim that the Thai military have never held a bloodless coup. The last one was bloodless and this one is the same - so far. Your efforts to rewrite the history of the last coup are a sad reflection on your journalistic experience (assuming you are the person who used to write for Database).

Of course the military are in control of the arms of government just like the PTP were. But it is a complete distortion to say that they & only they are in charge of law enforcement - they are not. The police are still going about their normal half-baked duties of clampdowns and selective arrests of some law breakers (as shown in other TV threads).

The current military coup is far from perfect but there are so many problems to be addressed it is ridiculous to expect instant success in resolving everything. They've started well and shown up the previous corrupt lot in a number of areas but there's a long way to go and, no doubt, there will be mistakes, omissions and overbearing no-criticism-allowed styles of governance (not dissimilar to Chalerm, Plodprasop and a few others).

So far I'd give Prayuth an 8 out of 10 for achievements. Deduct 2 for intolerence of criticism and using military courts to try dissenters.

Since it is the military, specifically the army, that has seized power, abrogated all civil rights and established itself as unique ruler of the country, I'm not sure who else should be criticised.

You ARE a fan of the military in Thailand. You are an unabashed supporter of their seizure of power and the establishment of a dictatorship. I'm not. It's a rather clear distinction.

To compare the political and civil powers of the military today with the Yingluck or any other civilian government is ludicrous. No civilian government has "control" of the country in any manner. That's what politics *is*. The military, as usual, has completely eliminated the supreme law, all civil rights and has full power to order the bureaucracy - which civilian authorities do not.

Do you actually, really believe that Prayuth is subject to removal by a court because he has (already) replaced senior civil servants with family-connected cronies - as Yingluck was?

Now EITHER you are ignoring the actual power of a military dictator which exceeds and supersedes all legal and political restraints OR you really don't understand what has occurred in Thailand with this eleventeenth military takeover.There is no third option.

You've never been extorted by the military. Therefore everything is lovely. Okay. Of course you are not Rohingya or Cambodian. You are not the cousin of a friend of a brother of a man who is suspected of being a southern insurgent. You are not an Akha.

You are not someone who thinks it is important for a newspaper to print the truth. You are not a person who thinks Thai Visa should have the right to publish and the right to allow comment on that publishing. You don't feel extorted. Very well then. It's a lovely world and dictatorship is a beautiful system, all based on the fact you haven't (yet) felt any personal pressure over it.

I feel differently about it than you feel. I have been extorted many, many times by this and other military regimes in Thailand. Here is the attitude I do NOT have about it: "I'm all right Jack!"

But please do not start down the "it could be worse" track, not with me. I freely admit and even celebrate that it could be worse. I have personally lived in worse places than Thailand, and there are (and were) many others, just in my lifetime. I lived for an extended period under a dictatorship in another country where, if you and I had this discussion-argument, WE would be imprisoned for such an argument over a political point. So things could be worse, I sure grant you that. They always can be.

But spare me the moral equivalencies, okay? Right now things are pretty bad for Thailand. I don't personally see a way they will get better, any more than the army killing 100 people in 2010 made things better. Certainly they didn't get better by the army killing hundreds of people in 1992 (yes, hundreds, we don't know the number) or the army (Isoc) killing hundreds of people in 1976 or killing hundreds in 1973.

There's no obvious way out of this 2014 dictatorship without more killing. We've had our Black Mays and Black Octobers and another month of it is inevitable. Military dictatorships in Thailand rarely end well and this is the absolutely and horribly wrong move at the wrong time by this incredibly unqualified, wrong man.

I have this horrible, terrible feeling that you and others who feel so warm about being under a military dictatorship. I feel you are going to be blaming others when the inevitable revolt begins to boil. When the army kills the first dissenter, it will be the fault of the dissenter or Thaksin or the bloody red shirts. Or it will be that ridiculous Sondhi and his Maha Chamlong. Or it will be Suthep's fault, him and that other violent monk.

Sorry, it won't fly. People have the right to protest military rule, and the military has NO moral right, none at all, to use capital violence against its citizens for using their natural, God-given rights to speak, dissent, gather and petition for change. The military's job is to protect the borders against foreign invasion. Under a civilian government, there might be a point where the army can play a role in quelling real riots (known as The Abhisit-Suthep Defence, and it has a valid point). But the army has neither legal nor moral authority to strip natural rights and kill people over it. Not in any civilised nation, including Thailand.

All the coming violence, every drop of blood is on the hands of the general and his cronies in their crony-ruled rape of this country. But that is in the future, because of course....

So far I'd give Prayuth an 8 out of 10 for achievements. Deduct 2 for intolerence of criticism and using military courts to try dissenters.

8 of 10? That's all? Don't you understand that stifling dissent and military courts and 3am knocks on the door ARE martial law? That's the entire, whole point of the first month of martial law, is the combination of open and secret intimidation and trying to force 65 million into fearful self-censorship like Thai Visa?

By your own definition and criteria, you should be giving Prayuth 11 out of 10 - maybe a 12. To my somewhat experienced eyes, the first month has been a total, unrivalled success. Compared with 2006, this is a FAR more successful injection of fear, threats, restrained violence, usurpation of civil rights. Even the Facebook stupidity shows the military success at suborning the NBTC and turning it into a quisling.

I award 10 of 10 to Prayuth for a successful implementation of his regime. I award/deduct nothing for his ridiculous giveaways, bread and circuses and for merely repeating the Yingluck example of humiliating Thai International Airways' directors as part of that first-month circus. She did the same thing, you know, he's only copying her.

At this point, I'd have given Sarit, Pibulsonggram, Chuan, Thaksin, Kukrit Pramoj and Yingluck an 8 of 10. Thailand is probably not unique about it (think: the US and the whole world in the first month of Obama) but Thailand ALWAYS gives honeymoons, even when not held hostage at gunpoint. And while being a newly elected PM is pretty easy for a few weeks, being a new dictator is even easier. Yingluck skated over the whole fiasco of the 2011 floods "because she is new at the job". And Prayuth is getting that same treatment. I personally think it's a bug, not a feature — the floods established Yingluck's failure as a leader and everyone gave her a pass on it — but either way it exists and there's nothing to be done about it.

And my final score. I deduct two points - yes 8 of 10 same as you - because of the hints Prayuth has dropped about what he intends to do to destroy basic rights in this country - civil rights and political rights, indoctrination of children, etc. If he actually destroys them, I'll be deducting more. I fear, I truly and viscerally fear that he will succeed.

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First - no, I'm not an unabashed or even bashed supporter of the military. They are second to the police in killing and abusing the rights of Thais. I was certainly not a fan of the violence occurring pre-coup and felt that the army was right to step in. The lesser of two evils.

Yes human rights have been restricted but it's a price worth paying to stop the killing of Thais that PTP and it's police did very little to stop. We'll have to wait and see what sort of an administration they set up and how any checks and balances are applied.

It is not ludicrous to compare the powers that PTP gave themselves and the military's power. PTP had total control of the police and no Thai was safe from their selective law enforcement. Actually that's not totally correct - anyone with loads of money had little to fear. One of the primary reforms urgently needed is the RTP and the nepotism, appointment of supporters and buying of positions is somewhere to start. Removal of Thaksin appointees is a good start by the general,

You are not someone who thinks it is important for a newspaper to print the truth. You are not a person who thinks Thai Visa should have the right to publish and the right to allow comment on that publishing.

That extract is pure lies. You don't know me and you are not entitled to put words in my mouth or thoughts in my head. I don't even have to rebut that sort of crap.

You also deliberately misread my comment about extortion. That was purely to point out how the average person here is far more at risk from the police than the army. I wouldn't be writing this if I had an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude. It has made little or no difference to life for a Farang whether it's army, Thaksin, Yingluck or Chavalit rule. I have written condemnation posts about how Thai authorities have dealt with Rohingya refugees so I don't need to be preached at about that.

Yes I'm fully aware of events of 1973, 1976 & 1992 as far as what information is available. I also know that the army didn't kill 100 in 2010. It was around 70 even allowing for considerable doubt over some of the 70. But you do like to distort and embellish 2010 as we've seen.

Yes the army has no right to kill people over human rights and they didn't in 2006 and not so far in 2014 despite your 'knowledge' that they plan to do so. As you don't seem to be able to write truthfully about the past, your efforts to predict their future actions lack any credibility.

BTW neither has the police, hired assassins, phu yai politicians or anyone else got the right to eliminate human rights activists which unfortunately happens no matter who is in charge of running the country.