Poll shows junta’s rice farmer payment outstanding performance

[rubl]

Now just for the fun of it with all the history rewriting we've seen today. From last year, as late as November.

"BANGKOK, Nov 23 - The Commerce Ministry stood firm that it has enough budget to subsidise the rice pledging plan which needs a circulating fund of Bt500 billion"

http://www.mcot.net/site/content?id=5290341a150ba0576b00032b

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/683698-thai-finance-ministry-baac-has-sufficient-funds-for-rice-subsidy/

or September 2013

"“They try to please voters to keep their popularity,” said Somjai Phagaphasvivat, a political science lecturer at Thammasat University in Bangkok. “But they create fiscal problems which may explode sooner rather than later if the global economy faces a serious downturn.”"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-22/thai-farmers-hooked-on-subsidies-test-yingluck-southeast-asia.html

and

"Luck Wajananawat, president of the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC), which funds the scheme, said the government had spent 667 billion baht ($21.3 billion) on buying rice since the scheme began.

...

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has said the government was not considering further loans because it would have enough money from selling rice from its stocks to fund the scheme."

http://www.newsdaily.com/asia/8195696bc44347d02931d7419ae766ab/thailand-may-need-fresh-funds-to-keep-rice-scheme-going

or from May 2013:

"The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) may ask the government to expand the 500-billion-baht revolving fund for financing pledging schemes if the amount proves insufficient, says president Luck Wajananawat. Of the half a trillion baht, 410 billion has been derived from money borrowed by the BAAC but guaranteed by the Public Debt Management Office, while 90 billion has been funded by the BAAC itself. The entire revolving fund costs the government 3% in interest on average. Mr Luck said almost all of the 410 billion baht has been spent, and what is left may be inadequat..."

http://www.thailandnews.net/index.php/sid/214461604/scat/f90d16c28a9b5294

[White Tiger]

I've noticed a lot of fields in the area where I live, that in previous years have been planted with rice, are this year being planted with sugar cane.

I'm not willing to speculate on the reason(s) for that switch by the farmers. There could be lots of reasons.

But if the pattern I see here is repeated throughout the country then it seems to me there will be plenty of sugar cane when the harvest is in, and nothing like as much rice, compared to previous years. Other things being equal, the laws of supply and demand suggest some changes in the price of rice (and sugar cane) will result after harvest time.

Just saying. Anyone else noticed farmers in their area switching to other crops, away from rice?

[Emster23]

I would like to see how poll question was phrased. That can impact responses you know. Maybe something like "Do you like getting money from the government? Yes or No"

[djjamie]

Now just for the fun of it with all the history rewriting we've seen today. From last year, as late as November.

"BANGKOK, Nov 23 - The Commerce Ministry stood firm that it has enough budget to subsidise the rice pledging plan which needs a circulating fund of Bt500 billion"

http://www.mcot.net/site/content?id=5290341a150ba0576b00032b

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/683698-thai-finance-ministry-baac-has-sufficient-funds-for-rice-subsidy/

or September 2013

"“They try to please voters to keep their popularity,” said Somjai Phagaphasvivat, a political science lecturer at Thammasat University in Bangkok. “But they create fiscal problems which may explode sooner rather than later if the global economy faces a serious downturn.”"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-22/thai-farmers-hooked-on-subsidies-test-yingluck-southeast-asia.html

and

"Luck Wajananawat, president of the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC), which funds the scheme, said the government had spent 667 billion baht ($21.3 billion) on buying rice since the scheme began.

...

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has said the government was not considering further loans because it would have enough money from selling rice from its stocks to fund the scheme."

http://www.newsdaily.com/asia/8195696bc44347d02931d7419ae766ab/thailand-may-need-fresh-funds-to-keep-rice-scheme-going

or from May 2013:

"The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) may ask the government to expand the 500-billion-baht revolving fund for financing pledging schemes if the amount proves insufficient, says president Luck Wajananawat. Of the half a trillion baht, 410 billion has been derived from money borrowed by the BAAC but guaranteed by the Public Debt Management Office, while 90 billion has been funded by the BAAC itself. The entire revolving fund costs the government 3% in interest on average. Mr Luck said almost all of the 410 billion baht has been spent, and what is left may be inadequat..."

http://www.thailandnews.net/index.php/sid/214461604/scat/f90d16c28a9b5294

Brilliant. You can use my facts if I can use yours?

Facts - The PTP's greatest enemy.

Beliefs - Their dearest friend.

[rubl]

Rubi, I didn't say it was a subsidy, I said "it's a subsidy by another name", which is an extremely accurate description.

It's a small subsidy compared to US or EU subsidies. Mr Prayuth has received praise for honouring it. The honouring of it has raised the Thai GDP above the unacceptably low levels incurred by 6 months of insurrection.

I

My dear chap, it wasn't a subsidy. It was a bribe to woo poor farmers who are still poor with the country loosing 700++ billion in three years time.

Now that's not a small 'non-subsidy', that almost 10% extra deficit over the National Budgets of 2011/2012, 2012/2013 and 2013/2014.

The NCPO received praise for quickly solving the non-payment mess left behind by the ThaksinYingluck Administration. Now we still have a 700++ billion deficit guaranteed by the Yingluck Administration. Maybe we can hold that Administration personally responsible?

[ajarnsiam]

Hmm... lol... facts in the realm of 1984 :-) or Brave New World, let me ask again...

What % live here - maybe 30 %

What % fill tax returns here - maybe 1%

What % have personal experience of the Thai rice business - maybe 0.001 %

Where do the rest of you get yr opinions from ?

[ajarnsiam]

Rubi, poverty in Thailand reduced from around 40% in 2000 to around 10 % in 2011, according to world bank figures.

[Gunna]

The class action was yet another attempt to discredit the scheme, not originated by farmers.

Interesting that Mr Prayuth is praised (rightly in my opinion) for making the final payments under PTP's programme. And it is rightly being claimed that this will raise Thai GDP growth to a less unacceptable level after the damage inflicted by 6 months of insurrection. Meanwhile the architect of the programme continues to be vilified in the rightwing press, and by the less informed, and has had her application for witnesses denied. Welcome to 1984.

You maybe in 1984, but most of us have lived here for many years. Of course POO was denied more witnesses who were just being paid for what they were going to say or covering their own miss deeds, or drop her in deeper by saying she didn't know what was going on, which is one of the charges she is facing. The NACC know it is just a stalling tactic for the inevitable guilty verdict

[rubl]

Rubi, poverty in Thailand reduced from around 40% in 2000 to around 10 % in 2011, according to world bank figures.

To stay a bit more on topic: "Poor farmers still poor."

[Hawk]

Yes the Yingluck government tried to pay but the money was blocked, now the general makes merit by finally getting that money released.

But what happens next? Another rice harvest is looming, so what are the farmers going to do?

Rice mountains yet again as Thai rice proves to expensive to be exported? Then what? Revolting farmers.

[ajarnsiam]

Dear Gunna, 1984 is not a year , it's a psychological turning point for fascism, as described by George Orwell, his most definitive experience was not too far from here.

[ajarnsiam]

Rubi, poverty in Thailand reduced from around 40% in 2000 to around 10 % in 2011, according to world bank figures.

To stay a bit more on topic: "Poor farmers still poor."

[ajarnsiam]

How can I stay more on topic, poverty was reduced from 40% to 10 % from 2000 to 2011.

Edited June 21, 2014 by ajarnsiam

[billsmart]

My wife is a rice farmer. She was paid by the government promptly for her 1st crop of the year (khow keng) which was planted in January and harvested and sold in May 2013 and so were all the other rice farmers in our area (Phetchabun). She planted again in June and harvested and sold her second crop (khow homilee) at the end of November 2013. Two weeks later the government was dissolved and the rest is history.

There's no question in any of the rice farmers in this area who was responsible for holding up their payments which took a very large toll on some of them. They blame Suthep.

[djjamie]

My wife is a rice farmer. She was paid by the government promptly for her 1st crop of the year (khow keng) which was planted in January and harvested and sold in May 2013 and so were all the other rice farmers in our area (Phetchabun). She planted again in June and harvested and sold her second crop (khow homilee) at the end of November 2013. Two weeks later the government was dissolved and the rest is history.

There's no question in any of the rice farmers in this area who was responsible for holding up their payments which took a very large toll on some of them. They blame Suthep.

"They blame Suthep"

And as you can see from Rubi and my posts that shows the facts the farmers were in fact wrong.

And you have highlighted why reform is needed, because the farmers were lied too yet they blame the people the PTP demonize.

Thank you.

Edited June 21, 2014 by djjamie

[khaowong1]

Poll conducted between June 26-20? Today is June 21... How can the poll be conducted out to the 26th already? Just threw me a curve here..

[ajarnsiam]

Bill, very nice to hear from a real person, and best wishes to you and your family for the new season.

[rubl]

Yes the Yingluck government tried to pay but the money was blocked, now the general makes merit by finally getting that money released.

But what happens next? Another rice harvest is looming, so what are the farmers going to do?

Rice mountains yet again as Thai rice proves to expensive to be exported? Then what? Revolting farmers.

The less informed out in droves tonight it seems.

Read some of the pointers I provided before.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/736332-poll-shows-juntas-rice-farmer-payment-outstanding-performance/page-3#entry8002667

PS no apology required, just try to learn some of the truth

Edited June 21, 2014 by rubl

[rubl]

How can I stay more on topic, poverty was reduced from 40% to 10 % from 2000 to 2011.

The topic is about praise to the NCPO for quickly settling the bills to farmers, some outstanding since maybe a year ago. That would be 2013. The Rice Price Pledging Scheme (RPPS) started 2011-10-07

So tell me how your statement relates to the topic?

[NeverSure]

Rubi, I didn't say it was a subsidy, I said "it's a subsidy by another name", which is an extremely accurate description.

It's a small subsidy compared to US or EU subsidies. Mr Prayuth has received praise for honouring it. The honouring of it has raised the Thai GDP above the unacceptably low levels incurred by 6 months of insurrection.

I

My dear chap, it wasn't a subsidy. It was a bribe to woo poor farmers who are still poor with the country loosing 700++ billion in three years time.

Now that's not a small 'non-subsidy', that almost 10% extra deficit over the National Budgets of 2011/2012, 2012/2013 and 2013/2014.

The NCPO received praise for quickly solving the non-payment mess left behind by the ThaksinYingluck Administration. Now we still have a 700++ billion deficit guaranteed by the Yingluck Administration. Maybe we can hold that Administration personally responsible?

Yes, but what date is that 700 bil? I arrived at that same figure some time ago before the last rice harvest which was also pledged. Numbers were tossed around in the press in the neighborhood of 250 bil, bringing the current total to close to 1 tril baht.

What is your latest number? I know of no significant rice sales that would have reduced that. I believe the government is declining to sell rice lest they be forced to realize the loss on paper. (Mark the rice to market.) As long as they hold it in storage, they can book it at what they paid for it instead of booking the loss.

In any event it is a massive disaster with all of it owed to banks with interest, and no sign of a way to pay it back at today's very low market value. In the meantime it gets older and perhaps spoiled.

[apetley]

Actually the junta just paid the debts that YL had been trying to pay for months, but had been blocked by the "democrats".

I wonder how many posters on this thread live in Thailand, or pay tax here or have any personal experience of rice farming in Thailand. I would guess 30%, 1%, 0.001%

Just about every single person residing in Thailand be they Thai, foreigner, tourist or expat pays tax. When you buy something that is vat/sales tax rated you pay tax, it is unavoidable.

[Chris Lawrence]

Is this a cooking school? They spelt 'Exacutive Administrative Committee' on the web page?

[soalbundy]

Rice farming can't be an easy way to make a living BUT it seems to me that one of the unexpected effects that the failed pledging scheme has had is to put farmers into a ' dependency ' frame of mind where they now expect to be looked after without question.

yeah, let them live in poverty,pesky farmers

[soalbundy]

I've noticed a lot of fields in the area where I live, that in previous years have been planted with rice, are this year being planted with sugar cane.

I'm not willing to speculate on the reason(s) for that switch by the farmers. There could be lots of reasons.

But if the pattern I see here is repeated throughout the country then it seems to me there will be plenty of sugar cane when the harvest is in, and nothing like as much rice, compared to previous years. Other things being equal, the laws of supply and demand suggest some changes in the price of rice (and sugar cane) will result after harvest time.

Just saying. Anyone else noticed farmers in their area switching to other crops, away from rice?

I'm switching to planting nothing for the next couple of years. Even with the subsidies and 220 rai of land, after paying for fertilizer,plowing,combine harvester,transport, paying back some loans at the bank,land tax, i was left with a pittance, certainly not enough to live on for a year,thank God for a German pension.

[moe666]

Rice farming can't be an easy way to make a living BUT it seems to me that one of the unexpected effects that the failed pledging scheme has had is to put farmers into a ' dependency ' frame of mind where they now expect to be looked after without question.

Very timely post and I agree. It is easy for a populous to become dependent on government hand outs. Case in point. The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U. S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 47.5 million people. Some of the recipients are fourth generation recipients.

Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U. S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please do not feed the wildlife." Their stated reason for the policy is because “The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves.”

Social democracy and the entitlement mentality have destroyed freedom and social fabric and empowered thieves and rapists of a nation.

.

The usual but how about one of the most important aspects of this program the people who go on food stamps for a short time due to unemployment or some other personal issue. My ex- wife for one before we where married spent a couple of months on the program until she could find a job.

[moe666]

Actually the junta just paid the debts that YL had been trying to pay for months, but had been blocked by the "democrats".

I wonder how many posters on this thread live in Thailand, or pay tax here or have any personal experience of rice farming in Thailand. I would guess 30%, 1%, 0.001%

No, YL was stopped paying the farmers by the law, caretaker government could not create any policy or debt that might impact the next government. Arjan go back to school

[Thanet]

So it's praise to the Prayuth government. Buttttttttttttttttt... How will the people in especially the northeast cast there vote when in about a year from now with elections yet another shinaparty promises them again high riceprices, way above international market price? Memories can be short then.

Time for a new party as the dems prolly will never get foot on the ground up north. Which I can understand.

I think you will find that populist policies like this will be banned by the EC once the next election comes around.

Only if the PT looks like winning ....

[Pimay1]

Rice farming can't be an easy way to make a living BUT it seems to me that one of the unexpected effects that the failed pledging scheme has had is to put farmers into a ' dependency ' frame of mind where they now expect to be looked after without question.

Very timely post and I agree. It is easy for a populous to become dependent on government hand outs. Case in point. The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U. S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 47.5 million people. Some of the recipients are fourth generation recipients.

Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U. S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please do not feed the wildlife." Their stated reason for the policy is because “The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves.”

Social democracy and the entitlement mentality have destroyed freedom and social fabric and empowered thieves and rapists of a nation.

.

Wow, a good'ol American conservative spouting out Fox, Beck, and Limbaugh actually made his way to LOS. Never thought i'd see that since the salt-of-the-earth folk like that tend to stay put and not venture out of the state of their birth for the benefit of the rest of the world i might add.

But i digress. I'm sure you're a rugged individual who got himself up by your own bootstraps and can live off the land and don't need no stinking government to do anything for you. Good on you mate. But for the millions of people who have been driven into poverty by the corporatocracy that have hijaked the America Republic over the last half a century enabled by the politicians corrupted by the unlimited campaign contributions and unwavering votes of the low information American voter (mostly your fellow Fox watchers), the American dream has turned into nightmare. The wealth gap in the US is the largest than in any other industrialized nation. The education spending is way down, while education costs are up thus drastically limiting the options of all but the very wealthy children. The health care costs are through the roof as well as the health spending, but the results are abysmal putting US at the bottom among other idunstrialized nations. The idiotic war on drugs, war on immigrants, and just plain'ol war fabricated and forced on the American people by the said corrupt (mostly Republican) politicians pandering to their low information religious base have drained the treasury, ballooned the national debt, and forced even more people from middle class into poverty. While the top elites made billions playing the games that they wrote the rules for almost bringing down the world's financial system in the process.

So back to the food stamps. As a civilized society and directly in response to the great depressions of 1930's we decided that it is in our collective interest not to have hungry families begging in the streets en-mass. It might reduce property values and all that. Hence the social safety net programs like the food stamps. No program of that scale can be 100% efficient. And yes there always will be people trying to get something for nothing. Just look over the gaggle of bar girls sitting next to you. But food stamps do not destroy freedom. Do you know what does destroy freedom? Lack of affordable education and health care, out of control police state, pervasive unconstitutional surverliance, corrupt political system: exactly the platform of the Republican party supported by the conservatives like you. So do the world a favour, stop writing about things you know nothing about a go catch your dinner.

My dear outre99 thank you for your response. I shall ignore your illiberal rabid degrading supercilious personal attack. I normally do not respond in kind as it serves no purpose except to show my intolerance toward your basic rights to your own beliefs and opinions. Interestingly enough you are the second person who has spewed forth this type of vile pomposity toward me in the nineteen years I have live in LOS. The first person being a young intern at the US Embassy in Bangkok when she asked me sarcastically what someone from Kentucky was doing in Thailand. Oh and by the way I am and have been a registered democrat for the past fifty one years.

But I digress. Part of your post is accurate and part is not. In my opinion the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were mistakes and should not have happened and did add significantly to the federal deficit. As for your statement, “but for the millions of people who have been driven into poverty by the corporatocracy that have hijaked the America Republic over the last half a century enabled by the politicians corrupted by the unlimited campaign contributions and unwavering votes of the low information American voter (mostly your fellow Fox watchers), the American dream has turned into nightmare”, might I remind you that for the past seven years congress has been controlled by the democrats. During this seven year period the federal deficit has increased over seven trillion dollars. All laws, appropriation and spending bills originate in congress. To lay the blame of poverty in America solely at the Fox watchers and low informed religious base speaks volumes about your understanding of the real causes. I am sad to say that since the time of Lyndon Johnson my party, the democrats have created a dependency class of Americans under the guise of government assistance.

Currently over forty nine percent of Americans receive some sort of government assistance. The takers nearly outnumber the producers. When Obamacare is fully implemented Americans earning up to 400 percent of the poverty level will qualify for a federal subsidy to buy health insurance. Now that's a novel idea and a great way to spend my taxes, not. I have no issues with assisting people who truely need assistance including food stamps. As for your statement “As a civilized society and directly in response to the great depressions of 1930's we decided that it is in our collective interest not to have hungry families begging in the streets en-mass. It might reduce property values and all that”, laughable at best. I did not state food stamps destroy freedom. I stated social democracy and the entitlement mentality have destroyed freedom and social fabric which is absolutely true. And thanks for the advice that I should stop writing about things I know nothing about. If I ever consider doing that, hopefully I’ll remember your admonishment. You’re going to have to take care of the gaggle of bar girls for me as I’m just too old to go to bars.

Have a great Sunday and please overlook any typos as Mr. Arthr is paying my hands another visit today.

[Pimay1]

Rice farming can't be an easy way to make a living BUT it seems to me that one of the unexpected effects that the failed pledging scheme has had is to put farmers into a ' dependency ' frame of mind where they now expect to be looked after without question.

Very timely post and I agree. It is easy for a populous to become dependent on government hand outs. Case in point. The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U. S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 47.5 million people. Some of the recipients are fourth generation recipients.

Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U. S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please do not feed the wildlife." Their stated reason for the policy is because “The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves.”

Social democracy and the entitlement mentality have destroyed freedom and social fabric and empowered thieves and rapists of a nation.

.

The usual but how about one of the most important aspects of this program the people who go on food stamps for a short time due to unemployment or some other personal issue. My ex- wife for one before we where married spent a couple of months on the program until she could find a job.

That is one of the basic concepts of the program which is good and has helped many people such as your ex-wife.

[NongKhaiKid]

Actually the junta just paid the debts that YL had been trying to pay for months, but had been blocked by the "democrats".

I wonder how many posters on this thread live in Thailand, or pay tax here or have any personal experience of rice farming in Thailand. I would guess 30%, 1%, 0.001%

No, YL was stopped paying the farmers by the law, caretaker government could not create any policy or debt that might impact the next government. Arjan go back to school

Did the law stop her as far back as Oct last year when the payments first stopped ?