Work Permit, No Degree

[pastafarian]

Not correct! Most labor offices will not issue a work permit unless you have a Teacher License or waiver letter and the TCT (Thai Teacher's Council) usually only give those to applicants that have at least a degree. The words 'most' and 'usually' should be noted.

you can not get a work permit without a degree.....

[attrayant]

People like you are the reason Thailand is way behind in teaching the Thai children English. The Thai government needs to seek out and recruit truly qualified natural English teachers from the US, England, Canada, Austrailia, etc.

You sure are throwing a lot of mud there. Having a degree does not necessarily mean a person is qualified to teach in any subject. Conversely, there are people who are excellent teachers, tutors, trainers, instructors, etc. who have no degree at all. When you get up into teaching advanced literature and written composition, I will agree that the degree becomes somewhat more desirable. But that piece of paper in somebody's hand is absolutely NO guarantee that they have the skills and experience that an employer needs.

The problem is that Thai employers, not being native English speakers themselves, are in a poor position to evaluate an applicant's abilities. Therefore they look at the only thing they can assign value to: education credentials. This unfortunately prevents some - perhaps not a lot - but some qualified people from getting teaching positions.

Bottom line: Thailand needs real teachers to teach English to their kids and Thai teachers!

Young kids (5-6 years or so) don't need teachers. They need only exposure. By the time I started first grade, I was speaking better English than most Thais ever will no matter how good their teachers are. This is because I had early conversational exposure before I even began formal language learning in grade school. If Thai kids could have some casual exposure to native English speakers during their formative years, they would be speaking English naturally by the age of 8 or 10. Thailand is missing a golden opportunity by forbidding its large expat community from giving simple language exposure to Thai kids while they're young.

Edited June 23, 2014 by attrayant

[jjablonsky]

You don't have a degree, which means you are not a teacher. How in the world do you realistically expect to be a good teacher in Thailand. Certified quality teachers spend thousand of hours preparing themselves to be a teacher. Being a good teacher in extremely difficult at best even for a truly qualified person. People like you are the reason Thailand is way behind in teaching the Thai children English. The Thai government needs to seek out and recruit truly qualified natural English teachers from the US, England, Canada, Austrailia, etc. The should provide incentives like a decent salary, housing, motorbike to entice quality people to come. The USA has is doing this currently with Chinese and Spanish speakers from China and Mexico. I am really tired of people who think teaching kids is easy or that they can do it without any kind of training. Bottom line: Thailand needs real teachers to teach English to their kids and Thai teachers!

I agree 100%. Teaching in your home country is difficult enough for a qualified teacher’s. I have taught for over fifteen years before teaching English here and though I enjoy it very much it does have its challenges.

The Thai children deserve every advantage they can get. So don’t blow it for them by teaching a subject you are not qualified to teach yet alone qualified to teach anything, to children who speak a language you can not understand or speak. Unlike America or Great Brittan the children are not completely segregated here. At a private school (which usually pays better) you will find yourself in overcrowded classrooms 40-60 students possibly.

The children will generally be a mix of motivated children who really want to learn English to children who think you should screw off. You will generally have very bright and gifted children mixed in with children with learning disabilities to Autistic children as they all attend the same school generally they are simply called (special). You will be resented by most of your fellow teachers for making more money than them (even though they don’t have to spend 15-20 thousand baht every 90 days, to leave the country and come back in, something they just don’t get) so don’t expect a lot of help from them. Discipline for the children is almost unheard of and then you will have the language and custom difficulty.

So before coming to a foreign country thinking you can teach everybody your language make sure that indeed you can.

Also before going to China for your dream job, make sure the job is secured before you get there. Once there you will find the Chinese govt. Is not as gracious with unqualified teachers. They expect results and if yours are not up to snuff you will find yourself on the other end of the boot.

[NoshowJones]

I don't know about Chaing Mai. but here in the sticks I taught for three years and had no problem getting a work permit with only a TEFL certificate. Your appearance is just as important as your ability to teach, and like me you could lose your job if a Filipino with a degree comes along and does your job for a lot less than you.

[Robert2006]

I know people that came up from the bottom of their field to acquire formidable skills in their profession without attending college. They organically learned by themselves and developed a high level of performance power in the area of expertise; if you can do the job and you do it well no one can deny that ability and you will be unquestionably a valuable asset.

I have a good friend that is a robotics engineer for Mitsubishi, never went to collage learned mostly from books and the internet, he started at the bottom learning while working for different companies then he opened his own company designing and selling automation machines. Finally he was head hunted by Mitsubishi and given a pay package he couldn’t refuse. They were stunned when they found he only had a high school education but it didn’t matter to them he had the ability they wanted not just a fancy piece of paper, the actual skill.

If you have sufficient desire to become a teacher in Thailand and acquire the skill, no one can stop you from attaining that goal.

[NoshowJones]

You don't have a degree, which means you are not a teacher. How in the world do you realistically expect to be a good teacher in Thailand. Certified quality teachers spend thousand of hours preparing themselves to be a teacher. Being a good teacher in extremely difficult at best even for a truly qualified person. People like you are the reason Thailand is way behind in teaching the Thai children English. The Thai government needs to seek out and recruit truly qualified natural English teachers from the US, England, Canada, Austrailia, etc. The should provide incentives like a decent salary, housing, motorbike to entice quality people to come. The USA has is doing this currently with Chinese and Spanish speakers from China and Mexico. I am really tired of people who think teaching kids is easy or that they can do it without any kind of training. Bottom line: Thailand needs real teachers to teach English to their kids and Thai teachers!

I have come across teachers without degrees, who are better than teachers with degrees in subjects other than English. I would be very surprised if there are many teachers with degrees in English working in government schools.

Teachers with degrees in English are far more likely to be teaching in International schools, or Universities where the salary is much higher.

[NoshowJones]

Without a degree you cannot get a work permit for a regular teaching position. However, you can be hired as a teaching assistant, or there are many schools in rural areas that will hire anyone to teach English if you are a native English speaker, even if you have never been to college or have a TEFL.

Not true, I was hired as an English teacher, not a teaching assistant, with only a TEFL certificate, after I lost my job to a Filipino, I was offered a job in another school, was granted another work permit, then was asked by the Head of the English Dept to pay 3000 Baht for it, I refused as I believe the school should pay it. I have not applied for another job since.

[duanebigsby]

You don't have a degree, which means you are not a teacher. How in the world do you realistically expect to be a good teacher in Thailand. Certified quality teachers spend thousand of hours preparing themselves to be a teacher. Being a good teacher in extremely difficult at best even for a truly qualified person. People like you are the reason Thailand is way behind in teaching the Thai children English. The Thai government needs to seek out and recruit truly qualified natural English teachers from the US, England, Canada, Austrailia, etc. The should provide incentives like a decent salary, housing, motorbike to entice quality people to come. The USA has is doing this currently with Chinese and Spanish speakers from China and Mexico. I am really tired of people who think teaching kids is easy or that they can do it without any kind of training. Bottom line: Thailand needs real teachers to teach English to their kids and Thai teachers!

Utter garbage

.

In Canada, I would be qualified to teach English as a 2nd language after doing a TESL or TEFL at a community centre or college or private language school. If that is good enough for me to teach recent immigrants to Canada English, why is it subpar here?

The reason Thailand is behind?

Classrooms of 50 plus students, only 2 hours of English per week, no discipline in the classrooms, huge emphasis on singing and ceremony, very little on academics.

someone with a TEFL and some experience can be a REAL TEACHER.

Edited June 23, 2014 by duanebigsby

[NoshowJones]

you can not get a work permit without a degree.....

Rubbish. I did.

[NoshowJones]

anything is possible in Thailand

If they are a MOE licensed non-formal school, they are exempt from the TCT teacher license requirements and obtaining a work permit is far easier for them.

As of 3 years ago it is a legal requirement to obtain a teaching licence , non formal schools are except as the poster above states , but to work in any other school you will require a teaching licence and without a degree you will not be allowed to take the Thai Culture course which is the first step in obtaining the teaching licence as you have to provide a degree certificate

That's right, I had to do the Thai Culture course.

[NoshowJones]

Not correct! Most labor offices will not issue a work permit unless you have a Teacher License or waiver letter and the TCT (Thai Teacher's Council) usually only give those to applicants that have at least a degree. The words 'most' and 'usually' should be noted.

you can not get a work permit without a degree.....

I suppose it is possible a new rule has come out about not getting a work permit without a degree in the last two years, but I am still in touch with teachers I taught with, and met up with one only a few weeks ago.

If it is impossible to get a teaching job because of new rules, I would think I would have known about it.

[gigman]

You don't have a degree, which means you are not a teacher. How in the world do you realistically expect to be a good teacher in Thailand. Certified quality teachers spend thousand of hours preparing themselves to be a teacher. Being a good teacher in extremely difficult at best even for a truly qualified person. People like you are the reason Thailand is way behind in teaching the Thai children English. The Thai government needs to seek out and recruit truly qualified natural English teachers from the US, England, Canada, Austrailia, etc. The should provide incentives like a decent salary, housing, motorbike to entice quality people to come. The USA has is doing this currently with Chinese and Spanish speakers from China and Mexico. I am really tired of people who think teaching kids is easy or that they can do it without any kind of training. Bottom line: Thailand needs real teachers to teach English to their kids and Thai teachers!

There is a fatal flaw with your line of thinking. The law wants you to have a degree in ANYTHING. Not just teaching. So tell me, how will my graphic design degree make me a better English teacher?

Ohhhhhhh, same thing over and over ......jealousy and nothing more.

If someone have a talent and courage to do the job ....what else we need... There is more bad teachers with degree but nobody wants to mention it.

eg.;

One of my Thai teacher is so good that we really enjoying lessons and we are learning quickly. Last time I dared to ask her if she finished any courses in teaching and she answered ...NO.

Her English is so good and even her accent....... and again she learned English by herself.....She is just very talented lady.I did not dare to ask her age but I think she is below 30....

I do not see the reason to discourage someone who want to work teaching.

Simply why NOT ???

So many famous musicians can NOT read a music chart and they play instruments better then those after schools.....and nobody cares or want to know about it.....

So...welcome mate! ..

p.s

Nobody is perfect and even best teacher can not push someone to learn if he/she is not much interested in learning languages.

Edited June 23, 2014 by gigman

[Scott]

I assist with several schools. We cannot get a work permit without a Bachelor's Degree. To get the Work Permit, you need the Teacher's License and it is the Teacher's License that they won't get.

Does it happen in some places. Yes, it seems to, but it is getting harder and harder.

[Ve37]

You don't have a degree, which means you are not a teacher. How in the world do you realistically expect to be a good teacher in Thailand. Certified quality teachers spend thousand of hours preparing themselves to be a teacher. Being a good teacher in extremely difficult at best even for a truly qualified person. People like you are the reason Thailand is way behind in teaching the Thai children English. The Thai government needs to seek out and recruit truly qualified natural English teachers from the US, England, Canada, Austrailia, etc. The should provide incentives like a decent salary, housing, motorbike to entice quality people to come. The USA has is doing this currently with Chinese and Spanish speakers from China and Mexico. I am really tired of people who think teaching kids is easy or that they can do it without any kind of training. Bottom line: Thailand needs real teachers to teach English to their kids and Thai teachers!

Nice piece. I would extend that, and add that I'd be alarmed having Western non-teachers wanting to teach children in SE Asia,...like the many stories I hear of Westerners at Christian Schools or facilities in Asia, desirous to hang around children. That is not suggesting those with a BA are not ped's,...just look at the % of ped priests.

[Loaded]

Not correct! Most labor offices will not issue a work permit unless you have a Teacher License or waiver letter and the TCT (Thai Teacher's Council) usually only give those to applicants that have at least a degree. The words 'most' and 'usually' should be noted.

you can not get a work permit without a degree.....

Not correct!

You seem to have missed the point I made in the second post on this thread that non-formal schools are not under the auspices of the TCT. Teachers at language schools do not need a teacher license or waiver to obtain a work permit.

[NewMind]

I know people that came up from the bottom of their field to acquire formidable skills in their profession without attending college. They organically learned by themselves and developed a high level of performance power in the area of expertise; if you can do the job and you do it well no one can deny that ability and you will be unquestionably a valuable asset.

I have a good friend that is a robotics engineer for Mitsubishi, never went to collage learned mostly from books and the internet, he started at the bottom learning while working for different companies then he opened his own company designing and selling automation machines. Finally he was head hunted by Mitsubishi and given a pay package he couldn’t refuse. They were stunned when they found he only had a high school education but it didn’t matter to them he had the ability they wanted not just a fancy piece of paper, the actual skill.

If you have sufficient desire to become a teacher in Thailand and acquire the skill, no one can stop you from attaining that goal.

I agree with you on that, but keep in mind that such examples are rare, and exceptional; i.e., not common.

A degree matters most these days, and particularly that too-- in a relevant field.

Teaching English is not a joke. A maths teacher may not be able to teach English and vice verse unless she has a good command over the language (subject). Students should be taught how to avoid grammatical errors from the very beginning of their lessons. Children might risk learning poor or bad English, for which they would perhaps need to struggle in their entire future lives.

This would be a mistake to assume that all native speakers are good teachers, while at the same time, its a misconception that all good English teacher must be natives.

You can't blame the system. They can't really evaluate your skills unless you show some competence.

[punkfutures]

I never got a college degree however I would like to teach English (in Thailand).

Anyone making inquiries about this DONE TO DEATH topic and is incapable of doing basic internet searches is simply not intelligent enough to a teacher.

I have done ample internet searches. You cherry picked one sentence from my much longer query and lashed out about it. If you have nothing to contribute, perhaps ply your tirade elsewhere.

[punkfutures]

Not correct!

You seem to have missed the point I made in the second post on this thread that non-formal schools are not under the auspices of the TCT. Teachers at language schools do not need a teacher license or waiver to obtain a work permit.

Thanks for this. I appreciate this specific answer.

[Oishii]

A degree does not make you a teacher in any field, unless it is a teaching degree.

Experience and training can make you an excellent teacher.

I taught for 25 years of my working life.

For 10 years I taught people to drive. I took training for this and was very respected in London as a top class teacher in this field.

I also taught health and safety for the British Safety Council and taught prospective security officers to the level required to gain their security licence.

I have a degree, but didn't gain this until after I retired. I have a BSc in Graphic Design. I did this because I have always had an interest in graphic design and it has been a hobby of mine for a very long time.

I know a couple of people employed in Thai schools to teach English, who have no degree. One of them doesn't even have a TEFL qualification, but like me, he has experience in teaching in other fields.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Robert2006]

I know people that came up from the bottom of their field to acquire formidable skills in their profession without attending college. They organically learned by themselves and developed a high level of performance power in the area of expertise; if you can do the job and you do it well no one can deny that ability and you will be unquestionably a valuable asset.

I have a good friend that is a robotics engineer for Mitsubishi, never went to collage learned mostly from books and the internet, he started at the bottom learning while working for different companies then he opened his own company designing and selling automation machines. Finally he was head hunted by Mitsubishi and given a pay package he couldn’t refuse. They were stunned when they found he only had a high school education but it didn’t matter to them he had the ability they wanted not just a fancy piece of paper, the actual skill.

If you have sufficient desire to become a teacher in Thailand and acquire the skill, no one can stop you from attaining that goal.

I agree with you on that, but keep in mind that such examples are rare, and exceptional; i.e., not common.

A degree matters most these days, and particularly that too-- in a relevant field.

Teaching English is not a joke. A maths teacher may not be able to teach English and vice verse unless she has a good command over the language (subject). Students should be taught how to avoid grammatical errors from the very beginning of their lessons. Children might risk learning poor or bad English, for which they would perhaps need to struggle in their entire future lives.

This would be a mistake to assume that all native speakers are good teachers, while at the same time, its a misconception that all good English teacher must be natives.

You can't blame the system. They can't really evaluate your skills unless you show some competence.

I do agree with you, and I did not mean to imply that a degree is not important tool. However this gentleman doesn’t possess a degree nevertheless he certainly can marshal the formidable tool of desire to acquire the skill and achieve his goal. If his desire is strong enough he will achieve the level of competence required to become an English teacher and be rewarded for the possession of that valuable skill with employment.

The English proficiency of the Thai’s is a direct reflection of the importance they put in achieving competency, the short answer is they don’t really want it. They attach more pain to the process of learning it than to the pleasure of being able to speak the language.

[brucetefl]

Its not that complicated.

My undergraduate degrees were in Economics and International Relations. Lets stick to that for now.

Undoubtedly my Econ professors had spent less than 2 years of part time study (45 credits towards the major + related) gaining their BS in Economics. Total study time estimate, inside class and out, MAXIMUM 6,000 hours. Then they gained a PhD, that took them probably 8 hours a day x 200 days per year x 3 years to get their PhD. And with this they became literally the highest possible level of expert on Economics. Total study time, 5,000 hours.

Now lets say I am a high school graduate.

The average american watches 5 hours of TV per day. All in English of course. 32,850 hours of English exposure.

K through 12, 6 hours of classes per day, all in English, 15,600 hours of english classroom instruction.

We will ignore conversing with family and friends.

Your average 10 year old kid in the US who picks up a book once in a while is fairly fluent at English. Far, far more competent than all but a handful of the top Thai English teachers in Thailand.

The reason TESOL courses are so helpful is that it takes something you already know pretty darn well (English) and teaches you some simple techniques that can allow you to be an effective teacher.

And some of the WORST teachers I have ever encountered are the MA's in Edu who think they actually can teach...

the percentage of teachers who have more than a four-week course and teaching is probably less than 5 percent, excluding people from the Philippines of course.

I have a bachelor's degree and a master. None of the teachers who taught me my bachelors or masters degrees had formal training in education. But yet I learned anyway. Isn't that amazing?

No, they had formal graduate and post-graduate training in the discipline of your degree program. Barring special circumstances, they had master's degrees in that discipline when you earned your bachelor and doctorates in that discipline when you earned your master.

How is it you think that compares to a lack of an education degree--or a simple bachelor's degree, as is accepted here in Thialand--for primary and secondary school education?

[pastafarian]

On this subject it is worth mentioning what happened at my neighbour's kid's school.

Two teachers that worked there for a number of years, very competent from what he said and well liked by the kids, recently had to leave as weren't approved for another waiver letter from the TCT. Their replacements are a couple of young American kids travelling the world after recently graduating from university, they plan to teach for 1yr only then move on. According to his kid they are useless, the girl has ended up crying in some classes as can't control the students and the guy just shouts at them. No teaching experience, no work/life experience but the TCT are happy for them to teach Thai students instead of experienced, competent people with years of work experience, one ran his own furniture company and the was a manager at BT.

Really is a sorry state of affairs when this is what is happening, doesn't benefit the Thai youth at all by enforcing this rule as hundreds, probably thousands, of experienced and competent teachers are having to stop and being replaced by kids with no abilityor desire to teach. Hiring backpackers also prevents the continuity that a student/teacher relationship requires.

[Scott]

I would not necessarily hold the TCT responsible for a school making poor choices in who is hired.

I have a couple of young, inexperienced teachers as well, but with a little bit of guidance and help they are headed in the right direction. Turning them loose on the students without some supervisory oversight would have been a disaster waiting to happen.

[pastafarian]

I would not necessarily hold the TCT responsible for a school making poor choices in who is hired.

I have a couple of young, inexperienced teachers as well, but with a little bit of guidance and help they are headed in the right direction. Turning them loose on the students without some supervisory oversight would have been a disaster waiting to happen.

But that is my point Scott. In many places in Thailand, especially up-country where we are, there aren't that many suitable native English speakers applying for jobs so schools often have to hire unsuitable applicants while releasing perfectly competent and experienced teachers because the TCT won't approve them. There are a number of schools here still without foreign teachers even though the new term started over a month ago.