Best beginner's DSLR Kit for around 20K?

[IMHO]

My daughter has decided that she wants a DSLR camera for her birthday next month, but it's something I don't want to spend too much on, just in case it turns out to be an area of interest for her that only lasts a few weeks - the only photography I've seen she's done is selfies on an iphone5

It's also something I know nothing about..

What suggestions can you camera pro's make for a full kit (e.g. body, lens, bag, tripod and SD card) that hits around the 20K Baht mark?

Edited June 22, 2014 by IMHO

[neverdie]

By the sounds of it, you want a DSLR (as that's what you specified), so you need to look around the 'entry kit' levels, which for Nikon would be a D3300, perhaps a twin kit lens set up. The sensor in that Camera is very good, very sharp, actually it's the same sensor as the other DX DSLR's, right up to and including the D7100.

You can get smallish cheap tripods for small DSLR's without much problem, as you can with SD cards and a small bag etc.

I'm not sure if you will get it all for 20k baht, but perhaps you might like to consider 'grey' stuff and save a few dollars.

Sorry, I don't know about Canon or Pentax offerings, no idea but the Nikon D3300 is a great entry level DSLR.

Have you considered a prosumer type level camera, or even a point and shoot, just to see if she's going to stick with it?

[neverdie]

http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=5552&review=nikon+d3300+DSLR+entry+level

[neverdie]

As for the SD card and other gear, consider doing a deal when you shop around.

No need to get a card any bigger than 16 GB, it should be downloaded often, so don't feel the need to waste money on a big card, but get a good brand like sandisk. You don't need the pro level speed card either, you can pick up 16GB from around 400 baht up to and over 2000 baht, stick with the basics, you can always buy more down the track if she kicks off and enjoys it.

IF YOU SHOP AT big department stores you will pay just over 20k baht for a D3300 with single kit lense, however, if you shop around you will do much better.

[IMHO]

In my knowledge-limited research, the D3300, D3200 (old model) and the Canon 100D are the models that seemed to be mentioned the most.

Lazada have the D3200 in a kit for 16K Baht: http://www.lazada.co.th/nikon-d3200-special-set-84284.html

The D3300 as a combo sans tripod for 18K: http://www.lazada.co.th/nikon-dslr-d3300-lens18-55sd-4gbbag-155042.html

and the Canon 100D for 20.5K as a kit: http://www.lazada.co.th/canon-eos-100d-special-set-136434.html

All of them include an 18-55mm lens, so I assume that must be considered a good starting point for beginners?

Any thoughts on these, or suggestions for options I've overlooked?

[IMHO]

Add to the list the Nikon D5200 kit: http://www.lazada.co.th/nikon-d5200-special-set-99355.html?wt_af=th.Affiliate.Vizury.SoQuero&utm_source=Vizury&utm_medium=rtb&utm_campaign=SoQuero

So now we have 3 different screen types: fixed (D3200, D3300), flip-out (D5200) and touch (100D) - any genuine advantage/disadvantage to either type if not taking selfies?

Any comments on which of the 4 models might be best for taking video?

Also, any "must have" accessories these kits do not contain?

If shopping Nikon, is it safe to assume the superseded D5200 is still a better camera than the newer, but lower, D3300? Or as you step up the range are they starting to become less beginner friendly?

Edited June 23, 2014 by IMHO

[sunshine51]

^^^ IMHO....Neverdie has given good info. I'm a Nikon pro user however

I have little knowledge with the Canon beginners kits. As a rule of thumb

with most camera models in the 4 digit range (3300,5000 series etc) as

the numbers increase the beginner friendliness decreases somewhat.

Then again this will ultimately depend on your daughters understanding

of the user manual. BTW these manuals can be daunting even for

experienced users!

If she wants to take selfies with a DSLR then she'll need a camera that

has an LCD which will flip around to the front so she & her friends can

see the shot to be taken.

Nikon's 5000 series do better video than the 3000 series I have been told

however I don't shoot video with a DSLR at all. Best to read up on this

in places like Petapixel or DP review and then there's always Google.

The 18-55mm kit zoom lens from either Canon or Nikon is a very sharp

lens with fast autofocus. It is cheap and surprisingly great. I have one

in my gear bag all the time...just in case a pro lens packs it in. Another

good kit lens along the lines of the 18-55 is Nikons 18-105 kit lens...same

sharpness and quality and cheap too. And a bit better focal length if

your daughter desires a tighter shot.

Must have accessories are very personal so I recommend you get her

whatever camera/lens combination you feel is affordable and toss in

cheap tripod and include a gear bag of sorts so she can carry it around

in. I know it's popular to get a branded gear bag these days as the kids

like to advertise what they're carrying around however....branded bags

(the ones with the makers logo emblazoned on them) are a large flashing

neon sign attracting thieves. The same for branded neck straps for the

camera. Get her a plain one...better yet...get her a rucksack type of camera

bag without any logo on it so it just looks like she's a kid carrying a bog

standard back pack.

Hope this helps you make a choice...PM me if more info needed.

[fimgirl]

You don't say how old your daughter is which would be pertinent I believe. I offered my 13 year old my redundant Canon 5D MK1 and she rejected it as being too big and not "handbag friendly". In the end we (she) chose to take over my Panasonic m4/3rds kit and has been using it extensively for 12 months now. She uses her iPhone for selfies as she always did and the Panasonic for her more adventurous attempts. Both fit in her handbag which seemed to be the critical factor!

Like most of us, if it's an effort to lug it around they ain't gonna use it.

Maybe something to consider.

Edited June 23, 2014 by fimgirl

[sunshine51]

^^^ FG...I bet MJP would like to take that redundant 5D off your hands FOC!!!

Edited June 23, 2014 by sunshine51

[fimgirl]

^^^ FG...I bet MJP would like to take that redundant 5D off your hands FOC!!!

The kid didn't want it so I sold it.

[IMHO]

You don't say how old your daughter is which would be pertinent I believe. I offered my 13 year old my redundant Canon 5D MK1 and she rejected it as being too big and not "handbag friendly". In the end we (she) chose to take over my Panasonic m4/3rds kit and has been using it extensively for 12 months now. She uses her iPhone for selfies as she always did and the Panasonic for her more adventurous attempts. Both fit in her handbag which seemed to be the critical factor!

Like most of us, if it's an effort to lug it around they ain't gonna use it.

Maybe something to consider.

She's turning 17, and I expect she actually wants something that looks the part (you know, with some street cred), not like a toy - On that front, one of the negatives I see against the Canon D100 is it's small size - if it wasn't for it's touch screen and built in beginner's guides it would be out of the running.

I also don't want her thinking that dad cheaped out on her

@All: I'm not spending this kind of money for selfie cam - that's not an obsession I want to foster LOL. The fact the the Nikon has a swivelling screen is seen by me as a con, rather than a pro.. If all she takes with this new camera are selfies, this new camera will quickly become the property of "my selfie" instead

Anyways, so far it seems everyone here prefers Nikon over Canon - is that just one of those things you come to understand after owning a few cameras (e.g. like buying a Mac over a VAIO because you've just learnt the hard way), or is it something to do with price, service and/or accessories?

[sunshine51]

^^^ Both Canon and Nikon are good cameras in all price ranges.

Perhaps it's just a popularity phase at the moment...similar

to smart phones...one usually buys what their friends recommend

and not for the specs.

Edited June 23, 2014 by sunshine51

[neverdie]

You don't say how old your daughter is which would be pertinent I believe. I offered my 13 year old my redundant Canon 5D MK1 and she rejected it as being too big and not "handbag friendly". In the end we (she) chose to take over my Panasonic m4/3rds kit and has been using it extensively for 12 months now. She uses her iPhone for selfies as she always did and the Panasonic for her more adventurous attempts. Both fit in her handbag which seemed to be the critical factor!

Like most of us, if it's an effort to lug it around they ain't gonna use it.

Maybe something to consider.

She's turning 17, and I expect she actually wants something that looks the part (you know, with some street cred), not like a toy - On that front, one of the negatives I see against the Canon D100 is it's small size - if it wasn't for it's touch screen and built in beginner's guides it would be out of the running.

I also don't want her thinking that dad cheaped out on her

@All: I'm not spending this kind of money for selfie cam - that's not an obsession I want to foster LOL. The fact the the Nikon has a swivelling screen is seen by me as a con, rather than a pro.. If all she takes with this new camera are selfies, this new camera will quickly become the property of "my selfie" instead

Anyways, so far it seems everyone here prefers Nikon over Canon - is that just one of those things you come to understand after owning a few cameras (e.g. like buying a Mac over a VAIO because you've just learnt the hard way), or is it something to do with price, service and/or accessories?

I mainly suggested D3300 because you specified DSLR & 20k baht. They were they key points I took from the OP.

A big plus of the D3300 IMHO, is it has the same sensor that's in the D7100 and it's very good in conditions of lower light. I think that's an advantage, being able to crank up ISO, adjust settings for ev and white balance and it's a great learning camera. Having said that I've only held one once, but I examined the work coming from it and was pleasantly surprised.

WITHOUT A DOUBT, the best thing you could buy for the daughter in the weeks proceeding the camera purchase is a beginners introduction to DSLR and photography. Not expensive to do so in Bkk and well worth it IMHO.

Don't let her be yet another dummy walking around with a very capable camera, fully set to the auto setting and a sever case of NFI (No f#%^*+ idea).

Photography is a very addictive sport and can be deadly expensive....are u really sure u want to do this ?

[tw25rw]

Personally, I would go mirrorless rather than DSLR.. I always think that the people I see lugging DLSRs around would usually have been better served with something else.

Could get a decent, if slightly outdated, Lumix G series kit for that. Also, there are plenty of good serious compacts around.

[guzzi850m2]

I just bought a Olympus Stylus1, I don't what category you can put it in? Fixed 28-300mm lens, view finder, can shot raw files. It looks like a mini dslr. Okay the screen can't flip up for selfies but only 90 deg. It's a real pleasure to use which is extremly important to me.

Love it so far, dragging around with 2-3 lenses is not for me (anymore). Will fit nicely into a girl/woman bag. video not so good I been told but never tried.

25K baht including a slow 8GB SD card, upgraded to a 32GB black edition SanDisk for 2000.

This is good enough for my use (so far, he-he).

[ETatBKK]

suggest OP planning a window-shopping with daughter, and feeling what's in her mind. a 17 years old girl may have a very different idea for a DSLR than those of us. for instant, she may consider 'being trendy' and 'be with her gang' a far more important factor than the technical performance of the camera.

I often buy photographic gadgets for my nephew and niece ( 16, 15 years old ). too bad these gadgets always end up at the dead drawer.

[IMHO]

You don't say how old your daughter is which would be pertinent I believe. I offered my 13 year old my redundant Canon 5D MK1 and she rejected it as being too big and not "handbag friendly". In the end we (she) chose to take over my Panasonic m4/3rds kit and has been using it extensively for 12 months now. She uses her iPhone for selfies as she always did and the Panasonic for her more adventurous attempts. Both fit in her handbag which seemed to be the critical factor!

Like most of us, if it's an effort to lug it around they ain't gonna use it.

Maybe something to consider.

She's turning 17, and I expect she actually wants something that looks the part (you know, with some street cred), not like a toy - On that front, one of the negatives I see against the Canon D100 is it's small size - if it wasn't for it's touch screen and built in beginner's guides it would be out of the running.

I also don't want her thinking that dad cheaped out on her

@All: I'm not spending this kind of money for selfie cam - that's not an obsession I want to foster LOL. The fact the the Nikon has a swivelling screen is seen by me as a con, rather than a pro.. If all she takes with this new camera are selfies, this new camera will quickly become the property of "my selfie" instead

Anyways, so far it seems everyone here prefers Nikon over Canon - is that just one of those things you come to understand after owning a few cameras (e.g. like buying a Mac over a VAIO because you've just learnt the hard way), or is it something to do with price, service and/or accessories?

I mainly suggested D3300 because you specified DSLR & 20k baht. They were they key points I took from the OP.

A big plus of the D3300 IMHO, is it has the same sensor that's in the D7100 and it's very good in conditions of lower light. I think that's an advantage, being able to crank up ISO, adjust settings for ev and white balance and it's a great learning camera. Having said that I've only held one once, but I examined the work coming from it and was pleasantly surprised.

WITHOUT A DOUBT, the best thing you could buy for the daughter in the weeks proceeding the camera purchase is a beginners introduction to DSLR and photography. Not expensive to do so in Bkk and well worth it IMHO.

Don't let her be yet another dummy walking around with a very capable camera, fully set to the auto setting and a sever case of NFI (No f#%^*+ idea).

Photography is a very addictive sport and can be deadly expensive....are u really sure u want to do this ?

I hear you loud and clear... when she first asked for a DSLR my initial response was "you'd better learn something about them then, because I know nothing"..

Naturally, she came back with all sort of suggestions that would have cost 100K+ She also claims to have found a series of instructional videos on YouTube, and this has been something she's been on for 3 months or more now, so I'm hoping that means it's more than just a passing interest.

In any case, I've told her I'm limiting the budget to 20K, JIC it turns out like the ballet lessons she never completed ( I play that card regularly BTW ).. If she shows a genuine, lasting interest along with some skill and dedication to the hobby, I have no problem helping her progress.

Since first posting, I am now narrowing it down to the D3300 or D5200 - the latter seems to have a few features that make it better for video (60fps support, articulating screen, more AF points) - which will suit me better in the case of it becoming a "hand me up" if she loses interest. My other POV is that, whatever it is, the base model in anything usually missing some critical feature and/or is intentionally crippled in some way - but in this case I'm unqualified to understand what that might be.

Any comments on the differences in photo quality and overall still image abilities between these two?

Edited June 23, 2014 by IMHO

[neverdie]

You don't say how old your daughter is which would be pertinent I believe. I offered my 13 year old my redundant Canon 5D MK1 and she rejected it as being too big and not "handbag friendly". In the end we (she) chose to take over my Panasonic m4/3rds kit and has been using it extensively for 12 months now. She uses her iPhone for selfies as she always did and the Panasonic for her more adventurous attempts. Both fit in her handbag which seemed to be the critical factor!

Like most of us, if it's an effort to lug it around they ain't gonna use it.

Maybe something to consider.

She's turning 17, and I expect she actually wants something that looks the part (you know, with some street cred), not like a toy - On that front, one of the negatives I see against the Canon D100 is it's small size - if it wasn't for it's touch screen and built in beginner's guides it would be out of the running.

I also don't want her thinking that dad cheaped out on her

@All: I'm not spending this kind of money for selfie cam - that's not an obsession I want to foster LOL. The fact the the Nikon has a swivelling screen is seen by me as a con, rather than a pro.. If all she takes with this new camera are selfies, this new camera will quickly become the property of "my selfie" instead

Anyways, so far it seems everyone here prefers Nikon over Canon - is that just one of those things you come to understand after owning a few cameras (e.g. like buying a Mac over a VAIO because you've just learnt the hard way), or is it something to do with price, service and/or accessories?

I mainly suggested D3300 because you specified DSLR & 20k baht. They were they key points I took from the OP.

A big plus of the D3300 IMHO, is it has the same sensor that's in the D7100 and it's very good in conditions of lower light. I think that's an advantage, being able to crank up ISO, adjust settings for ev and white balance and it's a great learning camera. Having said that I've only held one once, but I examined the work coming from it and was pleasantly surprised.

WITHOUT A DOUBT, the best thing you could buy for the daughter in the weeks proceeding the camera purchase is a beginners introduction to DSLR and photography. Not expensive to do so in Bkk and well worth it IMHO.

Don't let her be yet another dummy walking around with a very capable camera, fully set to the auto setting and a sever case of NFI (No f#%^*+ idea).

Photography is a very addictive sport and can be deadly expensive....are u really sure u want to do this ?

I hear you loud and clear... when she first asked for a DSLR my initial response was "you'd better learn something about them then, because I know nothing"..

Naturally, she came back with all sort of suggestions that would have cost 100K+ She also claims to have found a series of instructional videos on YouTube, and this has been something she's been on for 3 months or more now, so I'm hoping that means it's more than just a passing interest.

In any case, I've told her I'm limiting the budget to 20K, JIC it turns out like the ballet lessons she never completed ( I play that card regularly BTW ).. If she shows a genuine, lasting interest along with some skill and dedication to the hobby, I have no problem helping her progress.

Since first posting, I am now narrowing it down to the D3300 or D5200 - the latter seems to have a few features that make it better for video (60fps support, articulating screen, more AF points) - which will suit me better in the case of it becoming a "hand me up" if she loses interest. My other POV is that, whatever it is, the base model in anything usually missing some critical feature and/or is intentionally crippled in some way - but in this case I'm unqualified to understand what that might be.

Any comments on the differences in photo quality and overall still image abilities between these two?

If I can be frank with you, I will give you thoughts and other naturally will chime in, as well.

I purposely didnt mention any other cameras, as YOU specified DSLR. I also opted for the 3300 rather than the 5300 to keep you closer to your price point.

Firstly I would NOT go, 5200, the 5300 is considerably better, actually with the 5300 you are getting the exact same sensor and No AA filter, as the D7100. Let me tell you the D7100 is sharp, real sharp, good in low lighty and a good camera too. Having said that, I dont like the controls on any of these newer DX cameras, which is why I am lining myself up for my wifes old D300s, despite the fact the sensors are much better in these new 3300,5300 and 7100 cameras. I particularly like wild life and because im hopeless photographer I like the speed and buffer of the D300S, even if its internals arnt as good (its a model released in 2007), so youd expect that. The D300S has full pro controls and drives me nuts.

IMHO, theres not much difference between the 3300 and the 5300, if you are serious beginner you start with one or the other and then throw it away fairly quickly and climb up to a camera that lets you play with the manual settings easily.

If I was you, I would kick her off on the D3300 and start saving for next years D9300 (YET to be released). If the D9300 actually comes to life & is a modern replacement for a serious DX enthusist (ie:D300 replacement) then it will be a full pro layout APS-C camera. Dont get me wrong, the D7000 & 7100 are very good cameras and in the right hands the image out of one of them is going to be much better than my old D300 clunker.

At the end of the day, both the 3300 and 5300 have very limited life for the beginner that starts down the enthusist track. Id save the coin. The articulating screen and all that sort of thing doesnt do much imo, but each to their own. The internals of all these models is very good imo.

Anyway, im not trying to steer you, just here to share ideas and thoughts with. The camera body, is only such a small part of the equation. The glass (lenses) is the most important part of the hardware imo. You cant stick a $2 lense on a $10k usd body and expect sharp pictures. A good lense and a medium range body will blow it away. Its like audio, people put expensive speakers behind a crap source and crap amp, they get crap sound. In that case your much better off with an excellent source, medium amp and medium speakers. You cant improve on a bad source IMHO. Theres also the user, the artistic vision, the training & understanding and so forth. I have no doubt that someone armed with a D3000 can probably take a better picture than me if I had my wifes D3S, the user will always trump the gear imo.

If you end up going down this route,, you may find the daughter wanting something like a D610 as the next camera. Its full frame and a good option after the beginners entry camera.

Sadly, whatever you start with, it will go by the wayside.

There are some other excellent suggestions here about NON DSLR options, something to consider.

CHECK OUT DP REVIEW for fair reviews on D3300 and D5300 and a few of the Cannon and Pentax options. Picking the starting camera is always difficult, 12 or 18 months down the track the daughter will know exactly what she needs and with some proper instruction her only hurdle will be her wallet.

[sunshine51]

^^^ Great points ND...ya beat me to it.

[tw25rw]

It has been said that the best camera is the one you have with you. A DSLR will probably not be carried around that much.

Something like the Fuji X20 would possibly be better for her.

[rhythmworx]

The main things with any camera she will need to learn about is the relationship between shutter speed/aperture and ISO, 3 critical things you need to know to get the photo you have in mind.

I learnt all that on an old Fuji 6MP point and shoot. For the money maybe she would be better with something like a Sony RX100 MK2, quite capable of producing decent bokeh, great in low light, fast aperture f1.8, 30 second max exposure time, very portable.

It's great having a DSLR but if you haven't got it with you when magic moments occur it's almost pointless having one.

If she gets in to photography she can upgrade in the future and have the skills on hand to make best use of a DSLR.

A lot of people (I was one of them) look at some great photo took by an experienced photographer and think "If only I had a DSLR, I could take photos exactly like that", so they go out and buy one and then realise to their disappointment, It's not the camera that makes a great looking photograph. There's a LOT to learn but it's all good fun if you enjoy it and want to push your skills further.

...................................

Although having said all that I feel it is a disservice, there is something satisfying about shooting a DSLR the you don't feel with a P&S camera, you are limited due to less controls too and limited on how far you can push it and learn by trying out new things, using filters etc...

Plus she want's a DSLR so I think that's what you should buy her.

Edited June 24, 2014 by rhythmworx

[rhythmworx]

I would steer away from a flip out screen too, much better to have the convenience of the buttons there instead.

Edited June 24, 2014 by rhythmworx

[neverdie]

^^^ Great points ND...ya beat me to it.

I don't think I could beat you old friend you have much more experience and skill than this old fool.

The OP is about to step off the precipice into the vast world of photography. The entire system is designed by multi nationals to extract money from the consumer & pro alike,

Research & development is expensive, not to mention all the prissy stuff.

First step is too see if the daughter will actually proceed past the 'interested and curious' phase. I would normally suggest a pro-Sumer type camera at that stage, followed by a medium range DSLR and onwards. HOWEVER the OP specified DSLR and he has his reasons.

In such case, I'd go the basic end, as the slight step up won't really lengthen the time spent on the first DSLR. Having said that, perhaps the daughter won't continue down the path and they'll end up with a capable camera that will exceed their skills and expectations for years to come.

I'd rather see the OP spend the extra few hundred buying 1 half decent prime lense for the 3300 & get the camera into Apurture, Manual or shutter speed modes and by playing with a few settings they'll come out with some seriously sharp & encouraging photos & the entire process breeds the experimentation desire to exceed ur last achievement. Simply buying WHATEVER, setting the auto setting and crunching the trigger is mindless stuff.

[neverdie]

It has been said that the best camera is the one you have with you. A DSLR will probably not be carried around that much.

Something like the Fuji X20 would possibly be better for her.

There is certainly some merit there. My wife's old point and shoot bounces around in the glove box, just to that reason. On the flip side, most these kids carry around mobile phones with cameras in them that have more processing power than our old p & s.

Just last week my wife was approached at a lookout by a couple holding a newish Prosumer camera, they wanted help because they couldn't obtain the shot with a subject in the shadow of a mountain and the view below in full sunlight. My wife suggested some settings to use to obtain the shot, however after much a do, none of us could configure the camera. After giving up it took a few dial turns and the pressing of a button then the trigger and the wife will email them the shot. There were other people there, camera flashes going in every direction and not 1 decent photograph amoungst them.

Cameras with digital menus and sub screen after sub screen would send me batty.

The D3300 or Canon/Pentax equivalents are very small imo.

[sunshine51]

^^^ Great points ND...ya beat me to it.

I don't think I could beat you old friend you have much more experience and skill than this old fool.

The OP is about to step off the precipice into the vast world of photography. The entire system is designed by multi nationals to extract money from the consumer & pro alike,

Research & development is expensive, not to mention all the prissy stuff.

First step is too see if the daughter will actually proceed past the 'interested and curious' phase. I would normally suggest a pro-Sumer type camera at that stage, followed by a medium range DSLR and onwards. HOWEVER the OP specified DSLR and he has his reasons.

In such case, I'd go the basic end, as the slight step up won't really lengthen the time spent on the first DSLR. Having said that, perhaps the daughter won't continue down the path and they'll end up with a capable camera that will exceed their skills and expectations for years to come.

I'd rather see the OP spend the extra few hundred buying 1 half decent prime lense for the 3300 & get the camera into Apurture, Manual or shutter speed modes and by playing with a few settings they'll come out with some seriously sharp & encouraging photos & the entire process breeds the experimentation desire to exceed ur last achievement. Simply buying WHATEVER, setting the auto setting and crunching the trigger is mindless stuff.

For the OP...I reckon this is the best deal just in case his daughter changes her mind at a later

stage...http://www.lazada.co.th/nikon-dslr-d3300-lens18-55sd-4gbbag-155042.html

He listed it previously in the thread and even though no tripod is included a set of legs can

always be added later at a very reasonable cost if legs are desired depending on the genre

of photography she pursues. One prime lens would be a great addition however this depends

on dad's finances more than daughters wishes, if she wishes for a prime lens now & I kinda

doubt she does. The 18-55 kit zoom...even though the barrel & bayonet mount are plastic

(hi-impact BTW!), the optics are top shelf and nothing to sneeze at/about. Best thing about

the lens is that it's cheap...$100-$150 so if it gets broken somehow, replacement is also not

a heart/wallet breaker.

A few words to the OP....from a pro....

Start somewhere where you can afford a camera that fits both your daughter's needs/desires

and your wallet. If you pay a little more for the 5000 series or Canon's equivalent in the

beginning and if she looses interest...you have a good camera for yourself to learn with.

Now if it is essential you stick with the 20K Baht limit the go for the D3000 series camera;

it is also a good entry lever jobber for both your daughter and yourself should the situation

dictate you also learning! Or again...Canon's equivalent camera.

Photography begats silly money as one progresses through experience and more advanced

equipment to include many assorted additional photographic items whether they be fast

lenses, lighting kits, better computers etc...etc...etc...it all adds up over time to heaps of

money spent. Even more so when one enters the serious enthusiast and professional

arena where owning 2 cameras and say 6 fast lenses just isn't enough. What is enough?

That's personal OP and differs between photographers depending on what they mainly

shoot.

For example...in today's digital arena if one photographs wildlife for a profession one needs

fast (f2.8 or less) telephoto lenses mounted onto camera bodies that process all those one's

& zero's fast and can process these quickly with no bottlenecks at the buffer. So one is

looking at camera bodies that start at around $6000 and lenses that start at around $10000

(say for Nikons 400mm f2.8 telephoto), and one will want at least 2 or 3 of these camera bodies

with other telephotos from 200mm...to the sky's limit...all at f2.8. The dosh starts to become

similar to the GNP of planet Earth.

Zoom lenses are great and always getting beter as technology advances, however...

nothing beats a good set of prime lenses...lenses of a fixed focal length hence no

zoom capability....and when one uses primes one zooms with their feet. Good prime

lenses are very expensive...more expensive than the most expensive zoom lenses

in most cases. Best reason for having a set of good prime lenses...they produce a

sharper image...for starters that's all you need to know.

As Neverdie stated R & D costs heaps of money and the makers want to recover that

asap if not sooner and yes...you are about to take a leap off that cliff...but you will

have a safe landing with minimal structural (read financial) damage by getting your

daughter what she wants. Not what other people are mentioning you should get her

instead. You can also eliminate a lotta grief by taking her to a camera shop and

allowing he to see the "prosumer" point n shoots, the mirrorless cameras and many

others and letting her have an instore play with each. Who knows...maybe a prosumer

point n shoot (Canon G16 and others) or a mirrorless DSLR (Panasonic GH4 etc)

may be her fav flavour after all. But if it's a traditional DSLR...you can't go wrong with

either Canon or Nikon comparable models.

Let her know the budget if she doesn't already know & take her to the camera shop....

Even if it is to be a surprise...just don't tell her you're going until y'all walk in the front

door!

Good luck.

Edited June 25, 2014 by sunshine51

[IMHO]

Wow, thanks for all the great insights.

The big take-out was the simple fact that what I'm actually talking about buying is something that's heading one of two ways - something that either doesn't get used, or something that she grows out of so quickly it really doesn't matter what it is, so long as it's a good enough introduction to the hobby to give her a fair chance of deciding if it's really her "thing" or not..

So no need to take "one step up, half a step down" with the D5200 - from what you guys are saying she would find the limits of that just as quickly as the D3300 anyway.

As for P&S vs DSLR, she is quite adamant she wants a DSLR - she has several devices for basic P&S photography already, if it doesn't come with all of the controls to manipulate it's almost certainly going to fall short of her expectations/ambitions.

[tw25rw]

if it doesn't come with all of the controls to manipulate it's almost certainly going to fall short of her expectations/ambitions.

Not only DSLRs come with all the controls.. Just don't get her a basic auto-everything camera. DSLRs have certain advantages, but certain disadvantages as well.

[ETatBKK]

would really like to hear from IMHO, his daughter's un-box experience of the new DSLR, and also her learning experience 3 months after !

enjoy the good fun with the new camera, both the dad and the daughter !

[sunshine51]

if it doesn't come with all of the controls to manipulate it's almost certainly going to fall short of her expectations/ambitions.

Not only DSLRs come with all the controls.. Just don't get her a basic auto-everything camera. DSLRs have certain advantages, but certain disadvantages as well.

Every camera, of any type, that has ever been manufactured, has it's advantages and

it's disadvantages. Polaroids were fun back in the day, for "instant" photos but they also

had other usages...one important use was a final lighting check for the subject to be

photographed before exposing either large format or medium format film stock. This

applied to both indoor studio shots and outdoor landscape shots. Aerial cameras which

use 6", 8" or 10" & sometimes 12" film are great for aerial shots but FA else. An MF

camera, even todays digital jobbers are great for many things but near worthless for

news work. P & S cameras are great for grab shots (happy snaps in pubs etc) but

not so great when you desire a different exposure or DoF...unless you change that

in post processing. The old Fuji & Kodak throwaway cameras of the 80's & 90's were

great for general happy snaps if one didn't want or couldn't carry an slr with them...if

one knew how to use these cameras...eg...work within the camera's limitations. All

cameras have their plusses & minusses....just depends on ones pocket book thickness

when making that purchase...it doesn't mean a cheap camera isn't any good. It just

means that fancy jobber can come at a later date when the user is more confident.

In fact, working within the camera's limitations and knowing the limitations of the camera

being used is what really maters in the end. Everything else; higher DR, better lenses,

better LL performance, low high ISO noise etc...etc...etc...is just additional meat in a

sandwich. One pays heaps of dosh in any currency for the best specs available in

whatever format they use...however...instead of always harping specs one should be

out shooting...regardless of what type of camera they have. Experience doesn't come

from a book or Youtube...it comes from getting out there and taking pix...and making

mistakes to learn from.

Canon & Nikon cameras aren't always auto everything unless the user sets this function

and never moves the dial or presses the button for other settings such as aperture,

shutter & ISO and get the thing off P (program) too. It is fine to start on "auto" or "P" to

learn framing but that's about it. After a new user is satisfied they can at least frame a

shot it's time they try the other settings. Mistakes WILL happen...but these days one

doesn't have to have film processed to find out their mistakes...they'll get that instantly.

Whether they get fed up or continue is completely up to them...and nobody else.

Hopefully they continue & become avid photoigraphers IMO.

[neverdie]

Wow, thanks for all the great insights.

The big take-out was the simple fact that what I'm actually talking about buying is something that's heading one of two ways - something that either doesn't get used, or something that she grows out of so quickly it really doesn't matter what it is, so long as it's a good enough introduction to the hobby to give her a fair chance of deciding if it's really her "thing" or not..

So no need to take "one step up, half a step down" with the D5200 - from what you guys are saying she would find the limits of that just as quickly as the D3300 anyway.

As for P&S vs DSLR, she is quite adamant she wants a DSLR - she has several devices for basic P&S photography already, if it doesn't come with all of the controls to manipulate it's almost certainly going to fall short of her expectations/ambitions.

For me, when it comes to Canon, Pentax or Nikon Cameras the important thing for me (read us) was to have a look into the crystal ball and see where we might head in the future. One you invest into one of the BRANDS, it becomes expensive to change completely and head for another brand further down the track.

For me, it was obvious, I'm an idiot, I can't even use the beginners camera to its full potential, but unfortunately for me (read bank account), the wife is very astute and showed potential right from the get go. I had to make a decision about brand, so I examined the future possibilities. I should point out, prior to DSLR, the wife was shooting Pentax P&S cameras, as well as one of my older film Nikon cameras.

After careful consideration I decided to go with Nikon because I really like their upper ranges of Lenses. I shopped by the 'holy trinity' of lenses, being Nikons or should I correctly say, Nikkors 14-24, 24-70 & 70-200mm lenses. I decided these (at the time) would be great investments (investment is a poor choice of word, but I use it anyway). After deciding on those lenses and a few F2.8 prime lenses, I then shopped for the body. Initially I ended up picking the D90 (even though the 14-24 wasn't really going to work with it) but I later settled for the D300. The D300 is arguably one of the very best DSLR's made by Nikon, I didn't realise it at the time but this camera became our anchor bit of camera kit. The wife's since had the D700 & D3S and I've also bought a DX wide lense 10-24 to go on the D300s. It works well but churns out fairly ordinary work when compared side by side with the 14-24 on the larger camera.

I never went for the kit lenses or so e of the other DX options and whilst I'm not putting them down, I'm certainly glad I missed that step because it ultimately saved me money.

A anyway, the purpose of all this waffle was to say, pick your brand carefully, it may well save you down the track.

I chose Nikkor lenses, as IMHO, they offered the best weather sealing and build qualities, not to mention, the quality and sharpness of picture they provide. I bought new gear from an Authorised Nikon dealer and have never had a problem with any of the lenses.

The only gear related problem I have had was the rubberised grip in the D300 started coming away from the body when the camera was about 5 years old, had about 100k shutter movements on it and it had bounced half way around the world in everything from bikes, cars, boats, camels, helicopters and planes. It's been in blizzards and heat waves, it's been drenched in the rain and through the most spectacular dust storms. Nothing phases it. For these reasons and these reasons alone, Nikon & Nikkor get the thumbs up from me.

Another consideration you might want to make is to get a R Rapid camera strap, certainly offers a secure, strong and comfortable way of carting your camera around.

http://www.blackrapid.com

Best of luck IMHO, let us know how you go with it all.

Edited June 26, 2014 by neverdie