Top Malaysian court dismisses divisive 'Allah' case

[webfact]

Top Malaysian court dismisses divisive 'Allah' case

Putrajaya (Malaysia) (AFP) - Malaysia's highest court on Monday dismissed a bid by Christians for the right to use the word "Allah", ending a years-long legal battle that has caused religious tensions in the Muslim-majority country.

The Catholic Church had been seeking to reverse a government ban on it referring to God by the Arabic word "Allah" in the local Malay-language edition of its Herald newspaper.

But a seven-judge panel in the administrative capital Putrajaya ruled a lower court decision siding with the government stood.

"It (the Court of Appeal) applied the correct test, and it is not open for us to interfere," chief justice Arifin Zakaria said. "Hence, the application is dismissed."

S. Selvarajah, one of the church's lawyers, said the decision meant the end of the court case.

"It's a blanket ban. Non-Muslims cannot use the word," he told AFP.

Outside the court, which was cordoned off, about a hundred Muslim activists shouted "Allahu Akbar" or "God is great", and held banners that read "Uniting to defend the name of Allah" ahead of the verdict.

The dispute first erupted in 2007 when the Home Ministry threatened to revoke the publishing permit of the Herald for using the Arabic word in its Malay-language edition.

The church launched a court case to challenge the directive, arguing "Allah" had been used for centuries in Malay-language Bibles and other literature to refer to "God" outside of Islam.

But authorities say using "Allah" in non-Muslim literature could confuse Muslims and entice them to convert, a crime in Malaysia.

An appeals court last October reinstated the ban, overturning a lower court's 2009 ruling in favour of the church that had led to a spate of attacks on houses of worship.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-06-23

[NeverSure]

Thank Allah my country's constitution guarantees freedom from the government establishing an official religion, guarantees the right to practice or abstain from practicing any religion of choice. Freedom to mouth off about it...

Freedom of speech, freedom to peaceably assemble, freedom of the press...

<snip>

[ourmanflint]

The continuing fall of Malaysia into a sharia state is frightening. What has happened there in the past 20 years in very sad indeed

[Chao Lao Beach]

All it takes in to get the oil companies to invest in altivinte fuels and the middle east will go back to the sand pit and self destruck in an internal religous "civil" war.

Anyway, where's my beer

We made our own mess though

Edited June 23, 2014 by Chao Lao Beach

[Porkster]

I refuse to work in Malaysian waters due to their "ramming their religion down your throat" attitude!

"You're disrespecting our religion" they say!

"You're disrespecting my diet and the my choice of food" I say!

Funny enough though... I worked offshore of Qatar and on board the rig they had pork! I mean real proper pork!

How ironic from a Muslim state that's just a stones throw away from Mecca. No pun intended...

So when the rig owner sticks the middle finger up to halal they WILL just suck it up when they have no choice and need their oil to pay off the western politicians...

Separate dining rooms though which suited us whities just fine [emoji106]

Edited June 23, 2014 by Porkster

[Porkster]

ah, such a peacefull religion, they could start killing people not agreeing with them or starting wars ...

What do you mean? COULD?????

[Porkster]

Search YouTube for Pat Condell

You'll love him and want to shake his hand

Sir Pat Condell [emoji120][emoji120][emoji120]

[metisdead]

A post containing a racist comment has been removed as well as the posts quoting that post.

[Emster23]

Thank Allah my country's constitution guarantees freedom from the government establishing an official religion, guarantees the right to practice or abstain from practicing any religion of choice. Freedom to mouth off about it...

Freedom of speech, freedom to peaceably assemble, freedom of the press...

<snip>

that's what you think

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/29/only-in-america-50-banned-words/

Oh please.... education boards may go over board, but this has to do with minors, which is different than adults rights. Hopefully ACLU can sort it out. Freedom of press also does not mean it is okay to distribute kiddie porn etc. Being able to find a few exceptions does not negate the vast majority of the time when there is Freedom of speech, freedom to peaceably assemble, freedom of the press...

Islam should have taken out trademarks on name "Allah". Insipid fools are the most dangerous kind.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Emster23

[kamahele]

Stupid. As others may have already said, Allah is not a name. It means "God". How can one religion make a claim to a word? Forget I asked.

[Scott]

Off-topic and offensive posts along with replies have been removed.

[fvw53]

One thing is sure Jesus did not use the Germanic word "God or Gott or Gud" or the words use in Greek and Latin languages "Zeus, Deus, Dieu, Dios.."....

Jesus spoke Aramaic in this language the name Allah was used.

May-be those idiot Malaysians judges think that Jesus was an American?

[tingtongteesood]

Who cares, god, allah and whatever other names you want to give it are just story book characters anyway...

[Yann55]

Bigotry, intolerance and narrow-mindedness are a plague in every religion, and the hateful comments that pop up within seconds whenever a post relating to Islam appears on this forum is ample proof that intolerance is not one-sided.

In any case, the basis of this controversy is incorrect.

The word for God in Bahasa Melayu (or Malay, the national language of Malaysia) is Tuhan, not Allah. Allah is the Arabic word used within the scope of Muslim practise all over the word, because the Q'ran was written in Arabic, therefore considered sacred. Arabic Christians do use the word Allah, which comes from the Aramaic word Alaha (Elohim in Hebrew), but that's because they are Arabs so it's entirely logical. The majority of Christians in Malaysia are of Chinese descent which can hardly be labelled 'Arabic'. The other Christian groups are mostly 'ethnic tribes' who were converted by Christian Missionaries in Sarawak and Sabah (the Malaysian part of Borneo), white people who stayed on after Independance (1957), or more recent Western expats. I strongly suspect, however, that the ones who insist on using the word 'Allah' and who thus started this 'gale in a glass of water' are newly arrived, fundamentalist Christians from the US.

So... if some Christians priests in Malaysia insisted on using the word "Allah" they were being deliberately manipulative, and if they pretend otherwise, it's pure hypocrisy (munafik in Malay). The problem is clearly not a vocabulary issue, therefore the Muslim's reaction may be excessive, bigotted and silly but it is nevertheless understandable.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Yann55

[HerbalEd]

One thing is sure Jesus did not use the Germanic word "God or Gott or Gud" or the words use in Greek and Latin languages "Zeus, Deus, Dieu, Dios.."....

Jesus spoke Aramaic in this language the name Allah was used.

May-be those idiot Malaysians judges think that Jesus was an American?

I think he is an American. He immigrated didn't he?

[HerbalEd]

Bigotry, intolerance and narrow-mindedness are a plague in every religion, and the hateful comments that pop up within seconds whenever a post relating to Islam appears on this forum is ample proof that intolerance is not one-sided.

In any case, the basis of this controversy is incorrect.

The word for God in Bahasa Melayu (or Malay, the national language of Malaysia) is Tuhan, not Allah. Allah is the Arabic word used within the scope of Muslim practise all over the word, because the Q'ran was written in Arabic, therefore considered sacred. Arabic Christians do use the word Allah, which comes from the Aramaic word Alaha (Elohim in Hebrew), but that's because they are Arabs so it's entirely logical. The majority of Christians in Malaysia are of Chinese descent which can hardly be labelled 'Arabic'. The other Christian groups are mostly 'ethnic tribes' who were converted by Christian Missionaries in Sarawak and Sabah (the Malaysian part of Borneo), white people who stayed on after Independance (1957), or more recent Western expats. I strongly suspect, however, that the ones who insist on using the word 'Allah' and who thus started this 'gale in a glass of water' are newly arrived, fundamentalist Christians from the US.

So... if some Christians priests in Malaysia insisted on using the word "Allah" they were being deliberately manipulative, and if they pretend otherwise, it's pure hypocrisy (munafik in Malay). The problem is clearly not a vocabulary issue, therefore the Muslim's reaction may be excessive, bigotted and silly but it is nevertheless understandable.

How ironic that Islam declare there is but one god, but in Malaysia you can't call your Christian god the same name as the Muslim god.

Edited June 23, 2014 by HerbalEd

[Credo]

Well, I for one, seldom use any reference to Allah, in or out of Malaysia.

[OnTheRun]

I refuse to work in Malaysian waters due to their "ramming their religion down your throat" attitude!

"You're disrespecting our religion" they say!

"You're disrespecting my diet and the my choice of food" I say!

Funny enough though... I worked offshore of Qatar and on board the rig they had pork! I mean real proper pork!

How ironic from a Muslim state that's just a stones throw away from Mecca. No pun intended...

So when the rig owner sticks the middle finger up to halal they WILL just suck it up when they have no choice and need their oil to pay off the western politicians...

Separate dining rooms though which suited us whities just fine [emoji106]

I've just finished working in Malaysia (for some reason admin deleted my post regarding the Malaysian Govt giving money to bumi putras (People of the ground, ie muslims) only. The company I worked for were also contractually obliged to buy every item from a bumi putra registered company, this was at the behest of Petronas. It is rather sad when you see how biased in favour of one section of the community Malaysia has become, however, In despite of all this the local Chinese are far and away the most successful section of the community.

By coincidence I'm now in Qatar as well.

[VINCENT2012]

as some guy said :religion is the opium of the people

[Yann55]

How ironic that Islam declare there is but one god, but in Malaysia you can't call your Christian god the same name as the Muslim god.

... and Christians 'declare' otherwise ?

Edited June 23, 2014 by Yann55

[Yann55]

as some guy said :religion is the opium of the people

'Some guy' was Karl Marx, whose theories, first coined around the middle of the XIXth century, were soon to become another form of religion, but not before they were over-simplified, manipulated and distorted by his good friends Friedrich Engels and Vladimir Lenin.

Interestingly when asked around the end of his life how he would define a 'communist', Marx said 'I don't really know, all I know for sure is that i am not one'.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Yann55

[wwest5829]

Thank Allah my country's constitution guarantees freedom from the government establishing an official religion, guarantees the right to practice or abstain from practicing any religion of choice. Freedom to mouth off about it...

Freedom of speech, freedom to peaceably assemble, freedom of the press...

<snip>

I agree, Neversure, but I am concerned that the vocal minority thinks that the country is only Christian and thus Christian beliefs ( still can't buy alcohol on Sunday) or prayer at government functions is the only right way. Almost as scary as any country defining the use of Allah, God, Yahway, etc.

[rgs2001uk]

How ironic that Islam declare there is but one god, but in Malaysia you can't call your Christian god the same name as the Muslim god.

... and Christians 'declare' otherwise ?

I have no idea, perhaps you could enlighten us and let us know of any Christain country that has in place anything as obnoxious or sectarian and the oppressive "bumi" laws.

Last country I believe to have such laws in place was Sth Africa, world pressure brought an end to the injustices of that country.

I guess the bleeding heart liberals in Hollywood dont see Malaysian injustice as being a cause celebre.

I for one will never fly their airlines again, never mind set foot in their country.

Havent even started on their fascist dictatoship.

http://sarawaknews.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/10-common-features-of-dictatorship-how-many-malaysia-has/

[Porkster]

I refuse to work in Malaysian waters due to their "ramming their religion down your throat" attitude!

"You're disrespecting our religion" they say!

"You're disrespecting my diet and the my choice of food" I say!

Funny enough though... I worked offshore of Qatar and on board the rig they had pork! I mean real proper pork!

How ironic from a Muslim state that's just a stones throw away from Mecca. No pun intended...

So when the rig owner sticks the middle finger up to halal they WILL just suck it up when they have no choice and need their oil to pay off the western politicians...

Separate dining rooms though which suited us whities just fine [emoji106]

I've just finished working in Malaysia (for some reason admin deleted my post regarding the Malaysian Govt giving money to bumi putras (People of the ground, ie muslims) only. The company I worked for were also contractually obliged to buy every item from a bumi putra registered company, this was at the behest of Petronas. It is rather sad when you see how biased in favour of one section of the community Malaysia has become, however, In despite of all this the local Chinese are far and away the most successful section of the community.

By coincidence I'm now in Qatar as well.

Petronas... Just hearing that word makes me shiver... Biased racists and... Racists biasses

Why do all bumi's waddle like penguins? You ever noticed that? Toes pointing out at 45 degrees to each other and that famous bumi waddle... Dah Check! LoL

They didn't derrr check that jacket that fell over in 2006 did they!

My first supervisor job that was! K2... There's another misfit motley crew!

Never will I work for them ever again, haven't done for years and I like to keep it that way...

It's funny to see the mossies go wild in the bars in Songkhla aye!

Anyway... So how's Quatar these days?

Still got the Chinese & Thai working girls in the hotel bars have they?

I'm damned if I can remember that bloody hotel name, I think the nickname was the ally pally or similar....?

Guinness for £4 a pint was a bit much in 2007 though!

[Porkster]

I refuse to work in Malaysian waters due to their "ramming their religion down your throat" attitude!

"You're disrespecting our religion" they say!

"You're disrespecting my diet and the my choice of food" I say!

Funny enough though... I worked offshore of Qatar and on board the rig they had pork! I mean real proper pork!

How ironic from a Muslim state that's just a stones throw away from Mecca. No pun intended...

So when the rig owner sticks the middle finger up to halal they WILL just suck it up when they have no choice and need their oil to pay off the western politicians...

Separate dining rooms though which suited us whities just fine [emoji106]

I've just finished working in Malaysia (for some reason admin deleted my post regarding the Malaysian Govt giving money to bumi putras (People of the ground, ie muslims) only. The company I worked for were also contractually obliged to buy every item from a bumi putra registered company, this was at the behest of Petronas. It is rather sad when you see how biased in favour of one section of the community Malaysia has become, however, In despite of all this the local Chinese are far and away the most successful section of the community.

By coincidence I'm now in Qatar as well.

.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Porkster

[Scott]

I don't know what happened to your post. It has NOT been deleted. Perhaps you didn't hit 'post' or perhaps your computer timed out. Here's a little hit to prevent problems in the future

.10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy. Members should not block contact with moderators or administrators. Doing so will result in suspension.

[Emster23]

I like what George Bush 2.0 is said to have said: "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me". Or the Bard "What's in a name? A rose by any other trademarked name will get pants sued off". Numerous religions have tried to take patents out on God. Problem is you have to submit a working model.....

[smotherb]

One thing is sure Jesus did not use the Germanic word "God or Gott or Gud" or the words use in Greek and Latin languages "Zeus, Deus, Dieu, Dios.."....

Jesus spoke Aramaic in this language the name Allah was used.

May-be those idiot Malaysians judges think that Jesus was an American?

Nah, I think he's a Mexican. I spent 10 years in the middle east, never once did I meet a local named Jesus. Yet, when I went to Mexico, I met Jesus everywhere.

[cocopops]

The whole idea of intelligent adults arguing over this kind of thing in a modern day courtroom with straight faces is just surreal on so many levels...

[simple1]

Bigotry, intolerance and narrow-mindedness are a plague in every religion, and the hateful comments that pop up within seconds whenever a post relating to Islam appears on this forum is ample proof that intolerance is not one-sided.

In any case, the basis of this controversy is incorrect.

The word for God in Bahasa Melayu (or Malay, the national language of Malaysia) is Tuhan, not Allah. Allah is the Arabic word used within the scope of Muslim practise all over the word, because the Q'ran was written in Arabic, therefore considered sacred. Arabic Christians do use the word Allah, which comes from the Aramaic word Alaha (Elohim in Hebrew), but that's because they are Arabs so it's entirely logical. The majority of Christians in Malaysia are of Chinese descent which can hardly be labelled 'Arabic'. The other Christian groups are mostly 'ethnic tribes' who were converted by Christian Missionaries in Sarawak and Sabah (the Malaysian part of Borneo), white people who stayed on after Independance (1957), or more recent Western expats. I strongly suspect, however, that the ones who insist on using the word 'Allah' and who thus started this 'gale in a glass of water' are newly arrived, fundamentalist Christians from the US.

So... if some Christians priests in Malaysia insisted on using the word "Allah" they were being deliberately manipulative, and if they pretend otherwise, it's pure hypocrisy (munafik in Malay). The problem is clearly not a vocabulary issue, therefore the Muslim's reaction may be excessive, bigotted and silly but it is nevertheless understandable.

Thanks for the input. This issue was disputed by the Catholic Church in Malaysia, so is it accurate to say, "fundamentalist Christians from the US"?

This dispute first erupted in 2007 when Malaysia's home ministry threatened to revoke the Herald's publishing permit for using the Arabic word in its Malay-language edition. In this context your comment that the Malay language term is actually “Tuhan” does raise an interesting point.

I am not suggesting it's fair and reasonable, but a media quote with relevance to the topic.

A government spokesman later clarified: "The ruling only applies to the Herald newspaper's use of the word 'Allah'. Malaysian Christians can still use the word 'Allah' in church."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/world/a/24296585/catholic-church-loses-bid-to-use-word-allah-in-malaysia/

I do find it odd that people refuse to no longer work in Malaysia, but will engage in work that supports the Qatar dictatorship.

Edited June 24, 2014 by simple1