Top Malaysian court dismisses divisive 'Allah' case

[Kimagure]

So the next time one of these nuts blows himself and everyone else to pieces in a market...

Instead of shouting "Allah akbar!", he should shout, "Allah akbar, copyright Malaysia 2014, all rights reserved!"

Hopefully this will give security personnel a few more seconds to respond.

[Yann55]

Bigotry, intolerance and narrow-mindedness are a plague in every religion, and the hateful comments that pop up within seconds whenever a post relating to Islam appears on this forum is ample proof that intolerance is not one-sided.

In any case, the basis of this controversy is incorrect.

The word for God in Bahasa Melayu (or Malay, the national language of Malaysia) is Tuhan, not Allah. Allah is the Arabic word used within the scope of Muslim practise all over the word, because the Q'ran was written in Arabic, therefore considered sacred. Arabic Christians do use the word Allah, which comes from the Aramaic word Alaha (Elohim in Hebrew), but that's because they are Arabs so it's entirely logical. The majority of Christians in Malaysia are of Chinese descent which can hardly be labelled 'Arabic'. The other Christian groups are mostly 'ethnic tribes' who were converted by Christian Missionaries in Sarawak and Sabah (the Malaysian part of Borneo), white people who stayed on after Independance (1957), or more recent Western expats. I strongly suspect, however, that the ones who insist on using the word 'Allah' and who thus started this 'gale in a glass of water' are newly arrived, fundamentalist Christians from the US.

So... if some Christians priests in Malaysia insisted on using the word "Allah" they were being deliberately manipulative, and if they pretend otherwise, it's pure hypocrisy (munafik in Malay). The problem is clearly not a vocabulary issue, therefore the Muslim's reaction may be excessive, bigotted and silly but it is nevertheless understandable.

Thanks for the input. This issue was disputed by the Catholic Church in Malaysia, so is it accurate to say, "fundamentalist Christians from the US"?

This dispute first erupted in 2007 when Malaysia's home ministry threatened to revoke the Herald's publishing permit for using the Arabic word in its Malay-language edition. In this context your comment that the Malay language term is actually “Tuhan” does raise an interesting point.

I am not suggesting it's fair and reasonable, but a media quote with relevance to the topic.

A government spokesman later clarified: "The ruling only applies to the Herald newspaper's use of the word 'Allah'. Malaysian Christians can still use the word 'Allah' in church."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/world/a/24296585/catholic-church-loses-bid-to-use-word-allah-in-malaysia/

I do find it odd that people refuse to no longer work in Malaysia, but will engage in work that supports the Qatar dictatorship.

Hi and thanks for your input too. Point taken about the Catholic Church in Malaysia and the fact that the controversy is not recent. But you and I both know how fundamentalist Christians mostly (though not only) from the US are active on the terrain, often via NGOs which do a lot of good, albeit with a clear (if discreet) religious agenda in the background. Their missionary strategy is no different from that of Saudi fundamentalists who send Imams with stacks of cash in sensitive areas (Aceh, South Thailand, South Philippines) where they bring a much needed financial and psychological relief while government agencies are busy stuffing the aid money in their pockets.

The topic was in the Bangkok Post this morning, by the way, and they confirm that the ruling is limited to the use of 'Allah' in the newspaper, not in spoken language. The article also stated that 3/4 of the population in Malaysia used the word Allah when referring to God and did not mention the existence of the word Tuhan, sort of implying that Allah is the Malay word. Lol... It's a classic case of subtle distorsion of facts (not necessarily ill-intended, perhaps just ignorant)... as obviously 3/4 of Malaysians use the word Allah because they are Muslim, not because it's the Malay word.

As for the hateful comments about Malaysia and/Muslim people, I will not enter into any form of discussion, because discussion implies the use of rational arguments, and these people are talking with their anger, not their brain.

[Porkster]

I do find it odd that people refuse to no longer work in Malaysia, but will engage in work that supports the Qatar dictatorship.



You only find it odd because you don't know the facts or just didn't read and digest my post.
Try reading it again... However many times it takes you to understand
Qatar dictatorship, Malay dictatorship... It's all the same regime at the end of the day, but Malaysia refuses to admit it and takes offence when we put our foot down, whereas in Qatar they don't try to force it down your throat 24/7, as I said before, especially offshore when on other country's vessels and temporary installations that are NOT halal and refuse to be for instance. Some people just can't operate through the day without bacon on their breakfast plate knowing they're being made to go without little comforts when they're away from home for long periods of time...
The offshore rule has always been "it's your home away from home" and Malaysia needs to learn that other nations have different needs, we all can't/don't want to live your lifestyle.

The point I was addressing is the hypocrisy of the typical Malay Islamist... You want to force your views onto others but refuse to accept it the other way around.

Claiming to be a staunch Islamist when evidence proves otherwise yet still trying to convert others that just clearly aren't interested, which the response will always be "you're disrespecting our religion"! Pretty sad and hypocritical.

What goes around comes around, but Malaysia just can't accept that.
An example of this is when we were offshore and having a hard time with the unreliable machinery, the bumi would keep trying to tell me "I have to go and pray now" just because he's a slack muppet (it's a navy term, not a glove puppet before you start jumping up & down on that one)
After emailing my Malay mate in Kuching (a Muslim but admits he's only Muslim by birth, doesn't want to life that lifestyle and can certainly drink most westerners under the table) told me "dude, tell him that work IS pray" , The ball was in my court and I had him sent home/run off just for that reason of using his religion to LIE to get out of some hard work! LoL, quite amusing to see the Haji embarrassed about the whole situation too, he quit out of "loss of face",,, I rest my case.

Just last week I took photos of a Malay (I heard them talking bahasa) Islamic family or group eating in a non halal Burger King, meaning the restaurant was haram, it didn't bother them because they were obviously hungry.
They went straight onto Facebook !

Isn't an Islamist supposed to ensure the food they eat is "kosher" aka halal to keep his faith to Allah?


Whoops! I said it!... I said the "A" word...

So does this mean we have to call it "The A Word" from now on if we're "not allowed" to say Allah now?

The same as black people force us to use "The N Word"

They know what word we mean but we're "not allowed" to say it, even though it derives from the name of an African country, but oh no! It's fine for them to use "The N Word" in everyday life... Yet the moment we use it... up goes the RACIST CARD!
By saying "The N Word" they're putting the word <DELETED> in our heads already so just go ahead and say it already!
Sounds like verging on fascism to me!
Either fascism or just downright immature double standards...

I get sick and tired of hypocrites trying to tell me what I can & can't do, what I can & can't eat and I for one refuse to accept it.

It's my life, my body & nobody's business what I do or eat as long as it doesn't affect anybody else. And that includes people like you and your Islamist group.

If you don't want to eat haram food, then the simple answer is don't eat it, but DON'T try to push your eating disorders onto others and that starts with me!

The same goes for gay sex, I have no problem at all with gay people, what they do doesn't upset me or hurt me and it's non of my business what they do just as long as it doesn't affect me.

I'm not gay, I'm heterosexual, therefore I don't have gay sex because it doesn't appeal to me, but I don't hate gay people or tell them they have to follow me and be heterosexual or they must die! ITS NOBODY'S BUSINESS BUT THEIRS! how simple is that?


Islam should take a leaf out of the homosexual book and place it in the Quran as a guide to individuality and freedom of ones own choices.

Place this leaf on the page of Chapter 9 Verse 123.

[rgs2001uk]

I do find it odd that people refuse to no longer work in Malaysia, but will engage in work that supports the Qatar dictatorship.

You only find it odd because you don't know the facts or just didn't read and digest my post.

Try reading it again... However many times it takes you to understand

Qatar dictatorship, Malay dictatorship... It's all the same regime at the end of the day, but Malaysia refuses to admit it and takes offence when we put our foot down, whereas in Qatar they don't try to force it down your throat 24/7, as I said before, especially offshore when on other country's vessels and temporary installations that are NOT halal and refuse to be for instance. Some people just can't operate through the day without bacon on their breakfast plate knowing they're being made to go without little comforts when they're away from home for long periods of time...

The offshore rule has always been "it's your home away from home" and Malaysia needs to learn that other nations have different needs, we all can't/don't want to live your lifestyle.

The point I was addressing is the hypocrisy of the typical Malay Islamist... You want to force your views onto others but refuse to accept it the other way around.

Claiming to be a staunch Islamist when evidence proves otherwise yet still trying to convert others that just clearly aren't interested, which the response will always be "you're disrespecting our religion"! Pretty sad and hypocritical.

What goes around comes around, but Malaysia just can't accept that.

An example of this is when we were offshore and having a hard time with the unreliable machinery, the bumi would keep trying to tell me "I have to go and pray now" just because he's a slack muppet (it's a navy term, not a glove puppet before you start jumping up & down on that one)

After emailing my Malay mate in Kuching (a Muslim but admits he's only Muslim by birth, doesn't want to life that lifestyle and can certainly drink most westerners under the table) told me "dude, tell him that work IS pray" , The ball was in my court and I had him sent home/run off just for that reason of using his religion to LIE to get out of some hard work! LoL, quite amusing to see the Haji embarrassed about the whole situation too, he quit out of "loss of face",,, I rest my case.

Just last week I took photos of a Malay (I heard them talking bahasa) Islamic family or group eating in a non halal Burger King, meaning the restaurant was haram, it didn't bother them because they were obviously hungry.

They went straight onto Facebook !

Isn't an Islamist supposed to ensure the food they eat is "kosher" aka halal to keep his faith to Allah?

Whoops! I said it!... I said the "A" word...

So does this mean we have to call it "The A Word" from now on if we're "not allowed" to say Allah now?

The same as black people force us to use "The N Word"

They know what word we mean but we're "not allowed" to say it, even though it derives from the name of an African country, but oh no! It's fine for them to use "The N Word" in everyday life... Yet the moment we use it... up goes the RACIST CARD!

By saying "The N Word" they're putting the word <DELETED> in our heads already so just go ahead and say it already!

Sounds like verging on fascism to me!

Either fascism or just downright immature double standards...

I get sick and tired of hypocrites trying to tell me what I can & can't do, what I can & can't eat and I for one refuse to accept it.

It's my life, my body & nobody's business what I do or eat as long as it doesn't affect anybody else. And that includes people like you and your Islamist group.

If you don't want to eat haram food, then the simple answer is don't eat it, but DON'T try to push your eating disorders onto others and that starts with me!

The same goes for gay sex, I have no problem at all with gay people, what they do doesn't upset me or hurt me and it's non of my business what they do just as long as it doesn't affect me.

I'm not gay, I'm heterosexual, therefore I don't have gay sex because it doesn't appeal to me, but I don't hate gay people or tell them they have to follow me and be heterosexual or they must die! ITS NOBODY'S BUSINESS BUT THEIRS! how simple is that?

Islam should take a leaf out of the homosexual book and place it in the Quran as a guide to individuality and freedom of ones own choices.

Place this leaf on the page of Chapter 9 Verse 123.

Perhaps the person who asked the question could enlighten us and tell us how many years he has spent in each country?

As an atheist the religion is irrelevant to me, its their bloody attitude, a mixture of arrogance and ignorance, they actually believe they are the chosen people.

Ask the Malays what their religion was 1500 years ago, no bloody clue, thats correct they were aboriginies.

Funnily enough the Qataris, Emiraties etc at least have some humbleness.

The Saudis and Kuwaitis, well theats a different ball game.

[rgs2001uk]

Bigotry, intolerance and narrow-mindedness are a plague in every religion, and the hateful comments that pop up within seconds whenever a post relating to Islam appears on this forum is ample proof that intolerance is not one-sided.

In any case, the basis of this controversy is incorrect.

The word for God in Bahasa Melayu (or Malay, the national language of Malaysia) is Tuhan, not Allah. Allah is the Arabic word used within the scope of Muslim practise all over the word, because the Q'ran was written in Arabic, therefore considered sacred. Arabic Christians do use the word Allah, which comes from the Aramaic word Alaha (Elohim in Hebrew), but that's because they are Arabs so it's entirely logical. The majority of Christians in Malaysia are of Chinese descent which can hardly be labelled 'Arabic'. The other Christian groups are mostly 'ethnic tribes' who were converted by Christian Missionaries in Sarawak and Sabah (the Malaysian part of Borneo), white people who stayed on after Independance (1957), or more recent Western expats. I strongly suspect, however, that the ones who insist on using the word 'Allah' and who thus started this 'gale in a glass of water' are newly arrived, fundamentalist Christians from the US.

So... if some Christians priests in Malaysia insisted on using the word "Allah" they were being deliberately manipulative, and if they pretend otherwise, it's pure hypocrisy (munafik in Malay). The problem is clearly not a vocabulary issue, therefore the Muslim's reaction may be excessive, bigotted and silly but it is nevertheless understandable.

Thanks for the input. This issue was disputed by the Catholic Church in Malaysia, so is it accurate to say, "fundamentalist Christians from the US"?

This dispute first erupted in 2007 when Malaysia's home ministry threatened to revoke the Herald's publishing permit for using the Arabic word in its Malay-language edition. In this context your comment that the Malay language term is actually “Tuhan” does raise an interesting point.

I am not suggesting it's fair and reasonable, but a media quote with relevance to the topic.

A government spokesman later clarified: "The ruling only applies to the Herald newspaper's use of the word 'Allah'. Malaysian Christians can still use the word 'Allah' in church."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/world/a/24296585/catholic-church-loses-bid-to-use-word-allah-in-malaysia/

I do find it odd that people refuse to no longer work in Malaysia, but will engage in work that supports the Qatar dictatorship.

Hi and thanks for your input too. Point taken about the Catholic Church in Malaysia and the fact that the controversy is not recent. But you and I both know how fundamentalist Christians mostly (though not only) from the US are active on the terrain, often via NGOs which do a lot of good, albeit with a clear (if discreet) religious agenda in the background. Their missionary strategy is no different from that of Saudi fundamentalists who send Imams with stacks of cash in sensitive areas (Aceh, South Thailand, South Philippines) where they bring a much needed financial and psychological relief while government agencies are busy stuffing the aid money in their pockets.

The topic was in the Bangkok Post this morning, by the way, and they confirm that the ruling is limited to the use of 'Allah' in the newspaper, not in spoken language. The article also stated that 3/4 of the population in Malaysia used the word Allah when referring to God and did not mention the existence of the word Tuhan, sort of implying that Allah is the Malay word. Lol... It's a classic case of subtle distorsion of facts (not necessarily ill-intended, perhaps just ignorant)... as obviously 3/4 of Malaysians use the word Allah because they are Muslim, not because it's the Malay word.

As for the hateful comments about Malaysia and/Muslim people, I will not enter into any form of discussion, because discussion implies the use of rational arguments, and these people are talking with their anger, not their brain.

Great stuff, so you are more than happy to support a fascits regime a la Sth Africa or Nazi Germany, the Nazis tried that 70 years ago and were swept aside, the Sth Africans were brought down by world opinion.

Never mind, allah (holy shit am I as an atheist non Malay allowed to use the word, will there be a fatwa issued?) akbar.

Must be the first time on these forms I have come across a rascist fascit apologist.

[ravip]

May-be those idiot Malaysians judges think that Jesus was an American?

Could we assume this was quoted by a super intelligent being?

[rgs2001uk]

Just remembered before I am accused of being anti Malay.

I know at least three guys married to Malay women, two of these women are working in the medical profession in the UK, earning more than their husbands.

The third lives in Australia, will need to ask the mrs what she is doing now, brilliant woman by the name of Irene, my Ozzy friends who read this will know exactly to whom I refer.

Too be perfectly honest, many of these saps and broken hearted losers who wash up on the shores of Siam who be better served getting a good Malay woman, no sin sot, no monthly stipend to be paid, just honest hard working women with a perfect command of the English language, and skills that mean they will always be employable.

The one thing they have in common, not one of them has anything good to say about their country of birth.

[Porkster]

May-be those idiot Malaysians judges think that Jesus was an American?

Could we assume this was quoted by a super intelligent being?

God was an alien and we all know that deep inside [emoji6]

Chariots of the gods by Erich Avon Daniken

Read that and you'll probably never believe in any religion again, I offer that to you as a choice, I'm not trying to force it upon anyone or claim it is the ONLY answer to humanity, but you WILL believe that there is life elsewhere as the statistics clearly prove.

iF you do read it please take into account that the book was published in 1968, and look how technology has advanced since then.

The universe is ever expanding.

If you PM me I'll tell you where to get the PDF iBook

Sorry to go off topic a bit there but people laugh at others because aliens have never been proven and have only been read about in books etc...

Laughed at by people that believe in a god that has never been proven and has only been read about in books etc...

[Hugh Geen]

"A post containing a racist comment has been removed as well as the posts quoting that post."

This thread has got nothing to do with race. It is concerned with religious and cultural differences.

[i claudius]

I love the add constantly played on true "Malaysa truly Asia" and then goes on about multicultural harmony , you have to laugh ,not a lot of harmony from muslims i fear. they cant even stand each other.