ED visa - MOE test after 6 months ?

[MikeN]

I'm just over 6 months into my ED visa, did the 2nd extension the other week. The school office rang me yesterday, saying I have to do a test at Education Ministry. So, I asked a couple of people who have done a full year course and this was news to them. They said, and what I've heard elsewhere, is that you have to do a test if applying for a second years visa ( to make sure you are going to school). I'm not worried about the test itself, (the girl said it was easy ?) more concerned if the office staff actually know what they are talking about.

They seem to have several new girls working in the office, and they have made quite a few mistakes in peoples' paperwork ...forms incomplete when going for extensions, wrong dates, etc. which has wasted peoples time and money when going to Immigration ( I won't name the school, but it is one of the bigger schools in BKK)

So are the girls right, do I have to do a test after 6 months ? anybody done it recently ? (and if so, was it easy ? )

[falang07]

I have never heard of such a thing, after all, you pay for the course so it is your problem if you learn something or no.

[deepcell]

This is totally absurd! Better you change your school if you are having troubles like this. They just want more money!

[apalink_thailand]

I have never heard of such a thing, after all, you pay for the course so it is your problem if you learn something or no.

I would be surprised at all. Abuse of the ED visa is well known so I believe that this sort of initiative has been in the works for a while.

[Riggi]

A test in what subject?

There are foreign students here studying a range of subjects. If it's an international program, all communication will be in English.

Or, does this test only apply to foreign students studying Thai on an ED visa?

[timmyp]

You're talking about the Grade 6 Exam to assess your Thai language skills? No, that is definitely not a requirement by the government (though I don't think it would be inappropriate if it were). As for whether that is something your school came up with as a requirement for those studying there, I can't say. Or maybe they just want you to sign up for their exam-prep course cuz enrollment is low, so they fed you that line.

The exam, incidentally, doesn't have a passing or failing grade like it used to. Now they just give you a score between 1 and 6. I think 3 is the equivalent to what used to be passing.

When I lived in Japan, some schools and some workplaces required that foreigners sit through the language proficiency exam, but it didn't matter what the score was.

If you decide to take the test this year: You have been here for 6 months, so you will have been studying Thai for about 10 months when the exam rolls around? You could get a score of "3" if you study hard (say, 3 hrs class per day, then 2 hrs a day outside class).

I question people who say that the test is easy. I think getting a score of "3" isn't super hard (i.e., what used to be a passing grade), but it still requires substantial studying: Nobody is getting that score without putting in daily time to review in addition to classes. If someone got a 3, then probably most of the answers were guesswork, and their performance on the written section is probably close to incomprehensible.

[davevi]

Sorry to the OP but I can't directly answer the question... But I want to share an important point on this subject I learned about that may come up for those interested in this topic.

A friend was using the ED Visa to continue his stay in Thailand. He chose to extend his stay with an ED Visa to learn Thai in a school in Bangkok.

When he went to the main immigration office at Changwattana he sat down in the officers cubicle, had his paperwork reviewed for his second year extension, and the officer asking him about the fish in the tank in his cubicle. The western student looked at the officer puzzled and said nothing. The officer then promptly denied his extension. The problem? The officer asked him in Thai about the fish in the tank. The "Thai language student" with one year of study could not understand the simple question asked of him in Thai. Extension - Denied.

I can understand the need for Thailand to filter out those using ED to continue their stay in Thailand, but if you use a language school to do this be prepared for the potential of a test, formal or informal.

Also it appears these tests and the strictness of extensions is regional. In Northern Thailand several students from CMU reported last year that local immigration were taking a very close look at any foreigner on an ED Visa to be sure they were actually in school and using the Visa as stated.

[12DrinkMore]

You're talking about the Grade 6 Exam to assess your Thai language skills? No, that is definitely not a requirement by the government (though I don't think it would be inappropriate if it were). As for whether that is something your school came up with as a requirement for those studying there, I can't say. Or maybe they just want you to sign up for their exam-prep course cuz enrollment is low, so they fed you that line.

The exam, incidentally, doesn't have a passing or failing grade like it used to. Now they just give you a score between 1 and 6. I think 3 is the equivalent to what used to be passing.

When I lived in Japan, some schools and some workplaces required that foreigners sit through the language proficiency exam, but it didn't matter what the score was.

If you decide to take the test this year: You have been here for 6 months, so you will have been studying Thai for about 10 months when the exam rolls around? You could get a score of "3" if you study hard (say, 3 hrs class per day, then 2 hrs a day outside class).

I question people who say that the test is easy. I think getting a score of "3" isn't super hard (i.e., what used to be a passing grade), but it still requires substantial studying: Nobody is getting that score without putting in daily time to review in addition to classes. If someone got a 3, then probably most of the answers were guesswork, and their performance on the written section is probably close to incomprehensible.

"3 hrs class per day, then 2 hrs a day outside class"

"requires substantial studying"

Oh! You mean STUDYING!

I know a couple of people around here on this visa. Even an old guy who cannot scrape together 800,000 for a retirement visa.

​Officially there are three classes each week. But if it is raining, the teacher has some urgent stuff to take care of or the "can't be bothered" syndrome kicks in, or it is a school holiday, they hardly ever attend and are not making any discernible progress. In fact, it is a mirror of the Thai school system.

Maybe to boost their self-esteem the Thais should claim Thailand as the "Hub of Education",

[timmyp]

"3 hrs class per day, then 2 hrs a day outside class"

"requires substantial studying"

Oh! You mean STUDYING!

I know a couple of people around here on this visa. Even an old guy who cannot scrape together 800,000 for a retirement visa.

​Officially there are three classes each week. But if it is raining, the teacher has some urgent stuff to take care of or the "can't be bothered" syndrome kicks in, or it is a school holiday, they hardly ever attend and are not making any discernible progress. In fact, it is a mirror of the Thai school system.

Maybe to boost their self-esteem the Thais should claim Thailand as the "Hub of Education",

I'm talking about what is likely required for a foreigner who wants to take the Grade 6 Exam. I am not talking about the Thai education system for Thai people, so I'm not sure what relevance your comment really has to mine, or to the subject at hand.

Sounds like the people you know were studying at a Thai language school that exists primarily to give people an ED visa, a school knows its students have no interest in learning Thai, let alone taking the Grade 6 Exam. In my Thai classes over the last 3 and half years, I have never had a teacher miss class. Not once.

Some schools,, of course, exist primarily as visa factories, and I suppose the teachers might not be serious about teaching. I don't attend those schools.

I'm going to guess that you don't know much Thai language or about schools Thai schools that are interested in the students learning Thai, and are more interested in just taking a swipe anything Thai? I wonder why you feel the need to make a comment about something you don't know about.

Is this the part where I insert several laughing faces to give my response the appropriate condescending tone?

[MikeN]

You're talking about the Grade 6 Exam to assess your Thai language skills? No, that is definitely not a requirement by the government (though I don't think it would be inappropriate if it were). As for whether that is something your school came up with as a requirement for those studying there, I can't say. Or maybe they just want you to sign up for their exam-prep course cuz enrollment is low, so they fed you that line.

The exam, incidentally, doesn't have a passing or failing grade like it used to. Now they just give you a score between 1 and 6. I think 3 is the equivalent to what used to be passing.

When I lived in Japan, some schools and some workplaces required that foreigners sit through the language proficiency exam, but it didn't matter what the score was.

If you decide to take the test this year: You have been here for 6 months, so you will have been studying Thai for about 10 months when the exam rolls around? You could get a score of "3" if you study hard (say, 3 hrs class per day, then 2 hrs a day outside class).

I question people who say that the test is easy. I think getting a score of "3" isn't super hard (i.e., what used to be a passing grade), but it still requires substantial studying: Nobody is getting that score without putting in daily time to review in addition to classes. If someone got a 3, then probably most of the answers were guesswork, and their performance on the written section is probably close to incomprehensible.

No, it's not the grade 6 exam ..I've seen the school textbooks for that and that's well into the future ! the test is scheduled for some time next month, so it will only be 6 months since I started, and I'm certainly not signing up for any exam-prep course.

I'm pretty sure that the new office staff don't know what they are doing ....last extension time they put the wrong dates on the paperwork so I only got 2 months instead of 3, I did n't even think to check that. I just don't want to waste a day doing something that's not really required just because somebody did n't read some government paper right. hopefully when I go into school next the office manager will be back at work, then I'll ask her.

[silent]

I have never heard of such a thing, after all, you pay for the course so it is your problem if you learn something or no.

Hypothetically, let's wonder if the thought might have occurred that the concept might be a variation of a Farang teaching trick to develop a bit of incentive to learn, in an otherwise different type of corrupt environment.

It must be as disheartening to a Thai teacher trying to teach Thai to Farangs, as it can sometimes be for an English teacher trying to teach the occasional student that really doesn't care if they learn, yet on some occasions, (hypothetically speaking), might be given a passing grade for attendance.

If the Thai teacher were me, (not but some of whom might even rack their brains out in the beginning trying to make a lesson plan to teach the untouchable), I'd be coming up with the same sort of story to see a bit more participation. That's just a shot in the dark though, AND I WOULDN'T BELIEVE A WORD I'VE WRITTEN.

[MikeN]

I have never heard of such a thing, after all, you pay for the course so it is your problem if you learn something or no.

Hypothetically, let's wonder if the thought might have occurred that the concept might be a variation of a Farang teaching trick to develop a bit of incentive to learn, in an otherwise different type of corrupt environment.

It must be as disheartening to a Thai teacher trying to teach Thai to Farangs, as it can sometimes be for an English teacher trying to teach the occasional student that really doesn't care if they learn, yet on some occasions, (hypothetically speaking), might be given a passing grade for attendance.

If the Thai teacher were me, (not but some of whom might even rack their brains out in the beginning trying to make a lesson plan to teach the untouchable), I'd be coming up with the same sort of story to see a bit more participation. That's just a shot in the dark though, AND I WOULDN'T BELIEVE A WORD I'VE WRITTEN.

LOL ... I think that would be a bit too machavellian (?) for a language school to think up. After 6 months I'm the only student left in the class with a 100% attendance record, so I doubt it's some kind of incentivisation (is that a word ? ). Of course being in class does n't mean that every thing sinks into my old and nearly full memory banks and stays there

[phuketrichard]

one would expect after the visa exempt clamp down that the ed visa would be targeted next as it is open for everyone.

I am all for it, if take a course fro 6 months an cant respond to simple questions your obviously abusing the visa

[louse1953]

A test in what subject?

There are foreign students here studying a range of subjects. If it's an international program, all communication will be in English.

Or, does this test only apply to foreign students studying Thai on an ED visa?

How do Muay Thai boxers show their new skills,quick kick in the head,or what!!!

[trigger571]

I took the liberty of asking my school specifically about this yesterday after reading this topic. She flatly denied it and said there have so far been no official requests for this. However, she also stressed that things are changing very rapidly and that an informal interview any time you go for an extension / renewal by the officer could and probably will be applied. A very similar scenario to what davevi above suggested. Of course, if you are genuinely studying Thai, it is nothing to be concerned about. It is however, something to be concerned about by the many, many people who are abusing the system.

[simon43]

I have certainly heard of informal tests where the immigration officer asks questions in Thai. Can't understand them and your extension will be denied...

How they propose to test me (I'm learning Mandarin Chinese) will be interesting

[trigger571]

I have certainly heard of informal tests where the immigration officer asks questions in Thai. Can't understand them and your extension will be denied...

How they propose to test me (I'm learning Mandarin Chinese) will be interesting

Ah! I asked about Thai. There may be different requirements/ procedures for foreign languages then. What I do know for sure is that a clamp down on Ed visa's is imminent following the clamp down on tourist visa's. The reason for this is that many people having problems with the tourist visa's are simply applying for Ed visa's now to try to get around the system. Naturally, a clamp down there is to follow and this has been confirmed y both my school here as well as an acquaintance I have at the Thai Embassy. As I said (and you said in a previous post), nothing to worry about if you are genuinely studying. It's just those abusing the system who need to worry and frankly, this country will be a much better place when cleaned

[MikeN]

I took the liberty of asking my school specifically about this yesterday after reading this topic. She flatly denied it and said there have so far been no official requests for this. However, she also stressed that things are changing very rapidly and that an informal interview any time you go for an extension / renewal by the officer could and probably will be applied. A very similar scenario to what davevi above suggested. Of course, if you are genuinely studying Thai, it is nothing to be concerned about. It is however, something to be concerned about by the many, many people who are abusing the system.

Well that's interesting....she's never heard of it ? Last extension time one of the immigration officers had a bit of a chat in Thai ...."sabai dee mai ? yuu thii nai ?', but this supposed test is a formal one with Ministry of Education. I'm really beginning to think the office girls have mixed me up with somebody else who is finishing their year course and needs to do this test in order to get a new visa. They wanted enough photos of me at the start of course for all the paperwork, for all the extensions, but last extension time (my 2nd) all those photos had gone ..."oh, we must have used them on somebody else" .. ? Huh ???

[Frank78]

Hello mike

I'm afraid it's not, see my last answers in my topic "crackdown on ED visas" A major school I joined apply now the 6 monthes tests.

I took the liberty of asking my school specifically about this yesterday after reading this topic. She flatly denied it and said there have so far been no official requests for this. However, she also stressed that things are changing very rapidly and that an informal interview any time you go for an extension / renewal by the officer could and probably will be applied. A very similar scenario to what davevi above suggested. Of course, if you are genuinely studying Thai, it is nothing to be concerned about. It is however, something to be concerned about by the many, many people who are abusing the system.

Well that's interesting....she's never heard of it ? Last extension time one of the immigration officers had a bit of a chat in Thai ...."sabai dee mai ? yuu thii nai ?', but this supposed test is a formal one with Ministry of Education. I'm really beginning to think the office girls have mixed me up with somebody else who is finishing their year course and needs to do this test in order to get a new visa. They wanted enough photos of me at the start of course for all the paperwork, for all the extensions, but last extension time (my 2nd) all those photos had gone ..."oh, we must have used them on somebody else" .. ? Huh ???

[timmyp]

I was just thinking-- I have had to take monthly "tests" at the Thai schools I have studied at. I think this is a requirement for the school to get approval from the Ministry of Education. The tests are silly easy, it's clearly just a formality we have to go through. The schools keep the tests, and do not return them to us. I assume such records need to be shown to the Ministry of Ed.

So that may be the case with the test that you said your school was saying you had to take.

[MikeN]

I was just thinking-- I have had to take monthly "tests" at the Thai schools I have studied at. I think this is a requirement for the school to get approval from the Ministry of Education. The tests are silly easy, it's clearly just a formality we have to go through. The schools keep the tests, and do not return them to us. I assume such records need to be shown to the Ministry of Ed.

So that may be the case with the test that you said your school was saying you had to take.

I noticed that the paperwork for my visa extension included attendance records and test scores, but we have n't done any tests so that was a figment of their imagination ! This test I'm supposed to do next month is at the Ministry of Ed, not at the school.

there does n't seem to be consistency though ...Frank78 says his school has 6 month tests, trigger571's school said they don't. (but we all know about consistency within the bureaucracy here, don't we).

Edit : after reading frank's other post, now I know Frank's school is the same as mine ...so that is 1 school does, and I that does n't

[timmyp]

I figure that the schools are supposed to show some evidence that tests are being taken to monitor progress. As for whether schools actually do that or not... I imagine the schools that really want to be legitimate probably require tests.

There is a silly-easy interview required at the Ministry of Education to assess your Thai language when you go to extend your visa after 1 year. It's almost insultingly simple, but I guess they want to keep it that way so that everyone passes. I have done it twice. It's just a formality, nobody takes it seriously. I incidentally took it along side a Japanese guy who clearly bombed it, he just didn't have a clue when he was asked, "Do you have any Thai friends?" and "Are you married?" He just started back blankly. The interviewer switched the question to, "What kind of Thai food do you like?" and he was able to list of a couple of popular menu items. The woman asking him the questions smiled, told him his Thai was wonderful, and he got approval to extend his visa for another year.

[ratcatcher]

I have never heard of such a thing, after all, you pay for the course so it is your problem if you learn something or no.

Obtaining an Ed visa is supposed to mean that you attend classes and gain knowledge of the Thai language or are you under the impression that you pay the visa fee then lie on a sunny beach for the rest of the time?

Everybody knows that the Ed visa system has been abused by many as a way to stay for an extended period in Thailand without having a tourist visa. Surely a test of Thai language competence isn't unfair, or is it?

[ubonjoe]

It seems some people are not aware that there are MOE offices in each province that deal with doing the paperwork needed for extensions.. Meaning those they say they did not have to do it for their extension or the school saying they new nothing about could be in a different part of the country.

[NancyL]

Sometimes I think the Immigration officers just have these little chats in Thai to pass the time. I had one when the officer was processing my retirement visa and he realized I could speak a bit of Thai. He asked how I spend my time. I answered that "tuk wan tham kwam saat baan, sak paa, riit paa, tham aahaan" then he started to look alarmed like maybe I was working without a work permit so I quickly added "samrap samee lee gaw rian paasa Thai" with a big smile.

[muckwallet]

I am thinkong about long term stsy. Is ed visa good?

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