What I'd like to see develop in Chiang Rai

[harrry]

The fishing I have seen is often a very social affair with a variety of methods used, nets and rods among them. Sadly you are right that very few get away, but then they restock and do it all again. I keep thinking they won’t catch anything because they cleaned out every last fish, but every time I am wrong, and they continue to catch fish were I thought they were depleted. Go figure.

Fantastic photo! I live in Chiang RaI(city) and have never seen this or the sluice gates at the you pictured.

Where is this exactly?

For the sluice gates look on google earth they show up well.

[boomerangutang]

You jangled my memory, and I now recall seeing a couple of anglers at the outflow of the 11-gate irrigation dam, on the Mae Kok.

I still haven't seen anglers on the Mae Kok proper. I've gone down the Mae Kok several times, twice in boats I made myself. Very little wildlife to be seen, by me anyway. I saw a little water snake once. I'm not trying to find fault, just lamenting the dearth of wild species, particularly mammals.

Once, far off the beaten trail, I met a hill tribe couple which had a couple of baby tree-dwelling mammals - somewhat like a smaller version of a raccoon. I know of a Thai man who keeps about 6 types of little mammals in cages in his back yard. pretty sad place, actually. By the super hwy bridge, there was a sloth bear in a cage, and the Thai owner shooed my away, when I went to take a look. My overall impression: the last whimpers of once-bountiful region.

If Man vs Nature was a football game, the score would be Man 288 - Nature 0

On a political level, have you ever heard of a Thai politician doing or saying anything to tangibly aid the environment? The only environmental policy I can recall from the Yingluck administration was an announcement regarding watersheds. They announced they were rescinding any and all official/gov't protections for watersheds. Given that the Shinawatres are among the largest land developers in Thailand, it makes sense: Take away protection from watersheds (creeks, rivers), so more construction can take place. Savvy business move.

[villagefarang]

The fishing I have seen is often a very social affair with a variety of methods used, nets and rods among them. Sadly you are right that very few get away, but then they restock and do it all again. I keep thinking they won’t catch anything because they cleaned out every last fish, but every time I am wrong, and they continue to catch fish were I thought they were depleted. Go figure.

Fantastic photo! I live in Chiang RaI(city) and have never seen this or the sluice gates at the you pictured.

Where is this exactly?

The small green "d" on the far right of the map is the location of the gates.

Edited July 3, 2014 by villagefarang

[canuckamuck]

Boomerang here is your missing animal list "tigers, cloud leopards, one-horn rhino, hares, turtles, tortoises, deer, bear, pangolins, monkeys (except at a few wats), elephants, crocs."

Let me help you out a bit with this. My hired man ate a tiger last year, but he says they had permission to kill it based on the fact that it killed a villager, but that was n Mae Hong Son not Chiang Rai. We have eaten two clouded leopards in the last 3 years. My father in law is the kind of guy that believes all wild animals are guilty of the crime of being alive. Yes I try to educate him, but he is an angry man who listens to no one. I never saw a Rhino here but I knew someone who said they followed tracks in a park in Sukothai. We eat hares/rabbits occasionally. Don't know which they are, but they are pretty big so I think they are hares. Turtles I have seen. My father in law drilled a hole in the shell of one last year and tied him on a string so he could just make it into our pond. After a few days I let him go, made it look like he got away.

There are no deer in our area, I asked my wife why, because she remembers them from when she was young. She says it is because if anyone saw one they wouldn't sleep until the killed it. I haven't seen any sign of bear, but they are here, I have seen video evidence. About pangolins, I saw a wild one once, but it was in Chonburi. Monkeys we don't have in CR. but there are plenty of monkeys in other places in Thailand. I think there are no wild elephants in CR. And I think the Siamese Crocodile is a coastal inhabitant.

Other animals we have eaten include Palm civets, Giant Flying squirrels (2 varieties) various other squirrels. Mongoose, field rats, assorted small birds of prey, Jungle cocks, multiple types of minnow, eels, snakes, three pet dogs, snails, crickets, cicadas, ant larvae, and fresh water crabs, I have also eaten wild boar, but they have domestic wild boar here, so I don't know if that counts.

On the bright side I have seen a big increase in the quail and mongoose population lately so they are not all disappearing.

Please do not have an issue with me over the eaten animal list. If I had my way not a single one of them would have been hurt. But as I said my father in law is gonna do whatever he feels like doing. And if you stopped him there is still be a majority of village men that think and act exactly the same as him.

​Which is why I feel that without proper education and enforcement, any wildlife reintroduction programs are doomed.

[pomchop]

The Chao Praya in Bangkok seems to be full of big catfish...not that I would want to eat one of them but they seem to flourish there......almost all of the river taxi stops along the Chaoo Praya have vendors selling bags of bread scraps to feed the catfish which number in the thousands.....seems they should/could also flourish in the Mae Kok but if they do I have never seen anyone pull one out....catfish also reproduce quickly and will eat practically anything....of course the problem can be that by stocking rivers with a variety of fish they may well wipe out other species etc. I have no idea of the fish population of the Mae Kok but I suspect it is very very small for such a substantial river....i'd love to fish via rod and reel in the Mae Kok rather than in some fishing park but I highly doubt that you'd catch much of anything. I also don't know the pollution level of the Mae Kok but I would guess it may well be a lot cleaner than the Chao Praya which of course isn't exactly pristine.

[boomerangutang]

Thanks Canuckamuck and others for feedback on this topic. I realize there are still many, particularly hill tribers, who will kill wild animals for food and sport. Our species have a very long history of killing animals. That mental outlook can change for the better, but it won't be overnight. There's a grizzled old American who resides in NE Alaska, tens of miles from anyone else, who spends all his waking hours looking around for wild animals to kill. The yard around his cabin has many carcasses hanging around. That's just one person. Indeed, Alaska used to be crammed with a variety of large fauna, until successive waves of humans came along and sent them to extinction one by one. On a lesser scale, that's what's happening here in central SE Asia.

A Lao family squats on a corner of my rural property. Their friends come visit from Laos. Often they'll put out little hand-crafted traps for small wild animals (medium and large wild animals are already gone). Another neighbor puts out gill nets between trees to trap song birds - probably to sell in markets - for Buddhist merit. ....or maybe to eat, similar to Arabs in the Mediterranean region who will catch any type of bird, large and small, for sport. They'll say it's for food, but it's not really. I would gladly give those types of hunters $1 each to go buy some food at a market, and let the endangered birds fly free, but they wouldn't go for that. It's more fun to kill wild animals and birds.

[Chaiwallah]

The Chao Praya in Bangkok seems to be full of big catfish...not that I would want to eat one of them but they seem to flourish there......almost all of the river taxi stops along the Chaoo Praya have vendors selling bags of bread scraps to feed the catfish which number in the thousands.....seems they should/could also flourish in the Mae Kok but if they do I have never seen anyone pull one out....catfish also reproduce quickly and will eat practically anything....of course the problem can be that by stocking rivers with a variety of fish they may well wipe out other species etc. I have no idea of the fish population of the Mae Kok but I suspect it is very very small for such a substantial river....i'd love to fish via rod and reel in the Mae Kok rather than in some fishing park but I highly doubt that you'd catch much of anything. I also don't know the pollution level of the Mae Kok but I would guess it may well be a lot cleaner than the Chao Praya which of course isn't exactly pristine.

I ate some catfish I bought from a woman who sells curry in the market and developed severe indigestion/heartburn that lasted for days. I've eaten her curries before and the fish was delicious, but the incident made me consider that all pollution here probably makes its way into the rivers where these fish live and so it might not be wise to eat fish that may contain high levels of toxic metals. Any opinions on this?

[villagefarang]

I would be more apt to suspect the food preparation or storage as the culprit in your market case. I am guessing pollution would not have such immediate effects and would be more insidious and cumulative.

That said I am reluctant to eat the fish in our pond because I see what they spray on the fields around us and I am pretty sure a lot of that stuff makes its way into our water and subsequently into our fish. So I look at our fish more as pets and enjoy watching them get bigger rather than eating them.

[Chaiwallah]

I would be more apt to suspect the food preparation or storage as the culprit in your market case. I am guessing pollution would not have such immediate effects and would be more insidious and cumulative.

That said I am reluctant to eat the fish in our pond because I see what they spray on the fields around us and I am pretty sure a lot of that stuff makes its way into our water and subsequently into our fish. So I look at our fish more as pets and enjoy watching them get bigger rather than eating them.

Thanks for the response. I didn't mean that I thought the heartburn was from toxic metals, but the incident did make me consider the possible arguments against eating fish here. I've eaten food from food stalls around the country for years and rarely have had a negative experience, though a few instances of sudden bowel evacuation in Bangkok are indelibly and painfully etched in my memory, especially the one time when I disgustingly fouled a lavatory in a wat at perhaps 2AM and opened the door to find a monk outside waiting to use it. . . (I am anonymous on here, right?) Food problems can happen anywhere, but we should use discretion as far as possible. As a general statement, I think Thais are quite clean and careful with their food preparation.

I'd like to add that I've lived here several times for a couple of years each time. The first time was thirty-five years ago when I had the very great fortune to live on Chaweng Beach on Koh Samui for eight months before the island had a road, electricity (except for some gas-powered generators), or drinking water (except for captured rain water), though it did have an "ice factory". I was even employed by the bungalow owner to "ha farang", meet newly -arriving tourists at the harbor or at the train station in Surat Thani, the first foreigner to do this job. (Sigh . . .) Anyway, something that fascinated me was that though refrigeration was perhaps non-existent in Bangkok at the time, animals were brought into the city and butchered at night (by Muslim and Chinese butchers in certain areas in the city and of course the Muslims did not butcher the pigs) and fresh meat was distributed to all the local markets for sale the next day. What a marvel of logistics! I wish National Geographic had done a story about it.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Chaiwallah

[canuckamuck]

Thanks Canuckamuck and others for feedback on this topic. I realize there are still many, particularly hill tribers, who will kill wild animals for food and sport. Our species have a very long history of killing animals. That mental outlook can change for the better, but it won't be overnight. There's a grizzled old American who resides in NE Alaska, tens of miles from anyone else, who spends all his waking hours looking around for wild animals to kill. The yard around his cabin has many carcasses hanging around. That's just one person. Indeed, Alaska used to be crammed with a variety of large fauna, until successive waves of humans came along and sent them to extinction one by one. On a lesser scale, that's what's happening here in central SE Asia.

A Lao family squats on a corner of my rural property. Their friends come visit from Laos. Often they'll put out little hand-crafted traps for small wild animals (medium and large wild animals are already gone). Another neighbor puts out gill nets between trees to trap song birds - probably to sell in markets - for Buddhist merit. ....or maybe to eat, similar to Arabs in the Mediterranean region who will catch any type of bird, large and small, for sport. They'll say it's for food, but it's not really. I would gladly give those types of hunters $1 each to go buy some food at a market, and let the endangered birds fly free, but they wouldn't go for that. It's more fun to kill wild animals and birds.

Those bird guys that charge a fee to release a bird are quite a mystery to me. Why would someone pay a guy to catch birds and put them in a cage, just so you can watch one go free. If you want to see them free, wouldn't it be better to never pay guy so that he will stop catching them? Wouldn't it be better to put up a fuss every time you seen one of those guys, so other people might think about it and condemn the act as well.

Yet everyday there will be some idiots that will give this guy money and think they did some good.

[ajarnsiam]

Thanks Canuckamuck and others for feedback on this topic. I realize there are still many, particularly hill tribers, who will kill wild animals for food and sport. Our species have a very long history of killing animals. That mental outlook can change for the better, but it won't be overnight. There's a grizzled old American who resides in NE Alaska, tens of miles from anyone else, who spends all his waking hours looking around for wild animals to kill. The yard around his cabin has many carcasses hanging around. That's just one person. Indeed, Alaska used to be crammed with a variety of large fauna, until successive waves of humans came along and sent them to extinction one by one. On a lesser scale, that's what's happening here in central SE Asia.

A Lao family squats on a corner of my rural property. Their friends come visit from Laos. Often they'll put out little hand-crafted traps for small wild animals (medium and large wild animals are already gone). Another neighbor puts out gill nets between trees to trap song birds - probably to sell in markets - for Buddhist merit. ....or maybe to eat, similar to Arabs in the Mediterranean region who will catch any type of bird, large and small, for sport. They'll say it's for food, but it's not really. I would gladly give those types of hunters $1 each to go buy some food at a market, and let the endangered birds fly free, but they wouldn't go for that. It's more fun to kill wild animals and birds.

Those bird guys that charge a fee to release a bird are quite a mystery to me. Why would someone pay a guy to catch birds and put them in a cage, just so you can watch one go free. If you want to see them free, wouldn't it be better to never pay guy so that he will stop catching them? Wouldn't it be better to put up a fuss every time you seen one of those guys, so other people might think about it and condemn the act as well.

Yet everyday there will be some idiots that will give this guy money and think they did some good.

Yes, I'm one of those idiots, the last time I did this was at the main wat in Phayao at songkhran. I did ask the vendor where the birds came from, she said she bred them.

[ajarnsiam]

Well this thread’s pretty long list of authenticated wildlife sightings (or dinners) gives me cause for rejoicing in, rather than criticism of, the ways of northern Thailand.

I would say, again stating the obvious, that the fact that there are so many very large natural parks, many containing off-limit reserves, is actually a positive indication that successive governments have recognized the non-economic value of such investments (actually there may be other historical reasons, but I don’t want to turn this into a dissertation).

Again stating the obvious, the reasons why Thailand doesn’t have the sort of wildlife policies we see in many of our dev eloped home nations are that firstly, it’s a developing nation and has other priorities, and secondly, many of the indigenous species are alive and well.

I have never known a rural Thai to kill an animal for sport, but that doesn’t mean to say that it doesn’t happen. I think there are a couple of reasons for this: firstly, they prefer food straight from their ancestral environment rather than the battery farm or supermarket (worth reflecting on the fact this has been their ancestral environment since well before the colonization of north America); secondly it’s directly related to their long and deep mixed animist-buddhist roots.

I have known some seriously poisonous and/or lethal animals to be killed for self-defence, but where possible these are eaten rather than wasted.

Most of my food and much of my drink comes straight off the land (the water supply is tested regularly by the way). That doesn’t mean to say that I don’t enjoy good five star international cuisine, but I’ve already experienced that way of life for many years.

I’ve been an expat for many years (though not all in Thailand of course), and I’ve always, without exception, found that approaching it as a learning experience and engaging with the indigenous people is far more rewarding than approaching it from a perspective of assumed first-world superiority and patronizing condescension.

[gerry1011]

WOW.

Someone puts up an interesting point of view (whether you agree with it or not) and gets slammed by some full of himself village idiot with nothing better to do.

Get a life.

Yes, the OP has put up an interesting point of view, but I think you are a bit unfair on the "village idiot". it is people like him who make a lot of topics here on TV worth reading. Instead of being nasty to other posters, maybe you should get a life.

Our "village friend" is probably the poster on here who deserves the most respect.

Compared to other posters who only say "I don't like this I don't like that' usual bla bla bla", his comments are the most enjoyable to read.

If there were more farangs like him in Chiangrai (and less of the other types) I would see it as a very positive "development"...

Apart from that, I do enjoy Chiangrai as it is.

Of all the places I experienced, Chiangrai offers the best quality of life.

But I don't live "in" Chiangrai.

I understand that inside the city some little things could be better... as anywhere else.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[NoshowJones]

WOW.

Someone puts up an interesting point of view (whether you agree with it or not) and gets slammed by some full of himself village idiot with nothing better to do.

Get a life.

Yes, the OP has put up an interesting point of view, but I think you are a bit unfair on the "village idiot". it is people like him who make a lot of topics here on TV worth reading. Instead of being nasty to other posters, maybe you should get a life.

Our "village friend" is probably the poster on here who deserves the most respect.

Compared to other posters who only say "I don't like this I don't like that' usual bla bla bla", his comments are the most enjoyable to read.

If there were more farangs like him in Chiangrai (and less of the other types) I would see it as a very positive "development"...

Apart from that, I do enjoy Chiangrai as it is.

Of all the places I experienced, Chiangrai offers the best quality of life.

But I don't live "in" Chiangrai.

I understand that inside the city some little things could be better... as anywhere else.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree with everything you say Gerry, and there are a few guys just like villagefarang who post here on Thaivisa, I know, I have met them.

[villagefarang]

WOW.

Someone puts up an interesting point of view (whether you agree with it or not) and gets slammed by some full of himself village idiot with nothing better to do.

Get a life.

Yes, the OP has put up an interesting point of view, but I think you are a bit unfair on the "village idiot". it is people like him who make a lot of topics here on TV worth reading. Instead of being nasty to other posters, maybe you should get a life.

Our "village friend" is probably the poster on here who deserves the most respect.

Compared to other posters who only say "I don't like this I don't like that' usual bla bla bla", his comments are the most enjoyable to read.

If there were more farangs like him in Chiangrai (and less of the other types) I would see it as a very positive "development"...

Apart from that, I do enjoy Chiangrai as it is.

Of all the places I experienced, Chiangrai offers the best quality of life.

But I don't live "in" Chiangrai.

I understand that inside the city some little things could be better... as anywhere else.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree with everything you say Gerry, and there are a few guys just like villagefarang who post here on Thaivisa, I know, I have met them.

With words of kindness and appreciation being such a scarce commodity these days let me assure you of my heartfelt thanks for your support and kind words. A little kindness goes a very long way.

[ajarnsiam]

Talking of preservation, there is a large body of opinion that the threat to indigenous languages and lifestyles over the next decade or two could be cataclysmic. Northern Thailand, along with many other rural parts of SE Asia, has many such endangered languages. Maybe this could also be an interesting development for concerned ex-pats.

Re the previous 2 or 3 posts, I hope I will also be allowed the off-topic leeway to suggest that the quality of life as seen from a super-sportscar may be somewhat different from that seen from shanks’s pony or an iden, but depending on how one measures quality of life I’m really not sure which would be better.

[villagefarang]

Throughout history civilizations have come and gone, along with cultures and languages. The winners make the rules while the losers are assimilated, and in the process lose much of their identity, but they also modify the dominant culture in sometimes significant ways.

Even within cultures, differences are discouraged because they lead to conflict. When different cultures bump up against each other, in this ever shrinking world we live in, again there is conflict with fairly predictable results.

Aboriginal people could sometime hold their own against other aboriginal groups, but they stand little chance against the greater numbers and sophistication of the dominant culture. Criminal elements exploit them, religions exploit them, deviants exploit them, governments ignore them and the dominant population only tolerate them at best because they don't fit in.

Some may argue that the best hope for aboriginal people is to become less odd and different, blending in to their surroundings. Others may want to keep them different, as tourist attractions, or for their own selfish reasons. I refuse to take sides, preferring to remain an observer, but I somehow think the ones who drift downstream, making use of the current, will have an easier time of it than the ones who insist on swimming against the current.

As for the other part of your comment, I can’t understand why you felt compelled to go there.

Edited July 5, 2014 by villagefarang

[boomerangutang]

Thanks Canuckamuck and others for feedback on this topic. I realize there are still many, particularly hill tribers, who will kill wild animals for food and sport. Our species have a very long history of killing animals. That mental outlook can change for the better, but it won't be overnight. There's a grizzled old American who resides in NE Alaska, tens of miles from anyone else, who spends all his waking hours looking around for wild animals to kill. The yard around his cabin has many carcasses hanging around. That's just one person. Indeed, Alaska used to be crammed with a variety of large fauna, until successive waves of humans came along and sent them to extinction one by one. On a lesser scale, that's what's happening here in central SE Asia.

A Lao family squats on a corner of my rural property. Their friends come visit from Laos. Often they'll put out little hand-crafted traps for small wild animals (medium and large wild animals are already gone). Another neighbor puts out gill nets between trees to trap song birds - probably to sell in markets - for Buddhist merit. ....or maybe to eat, similar to Arabs in the Mediterranean region who will catch any type of bird, large and small, for sport. They'll say it's for food, but it's not really. I would gladly give those types of hunters $1 each to go buy some food at a market, and let the endangered birds fly free, but they wouldn't go for that. It's more fun to kill wild animals and birds.

Those bird guys that charge a fee to release a bird are quite a mystery to me. Why would someone pay a guy to catch birds and put them in a cage, just so you can watch one go free. If you want to see them free, wouldn't it be better to never pay guy so that he will stop catching them? Wouldn't it be better to put up a fuss every time you seen one of those guys, so other people might think about it and condemn the act as well.

Yet everyday there will be some idiots that will give this guy money and think they did some good.

I agree somewhat, though I feel the buy-birds-for-release-to-gain-merit vendors will go the way of the pedi-cab and we'll see less of them. I admit, however, that once in a while I'll buy some live turtles at the market, and take them to release in a marsh.

As for talk of what's positive / negative, and what may construed to denigrate Thailand or Chiang Rai or the locals, or whatever. Unflattering missives are, for the most part, meant to be suggestions for improvements. Even in your own house, if you sweep the floor, you're implying that the floor was dusty so it needed improvement by sweeping off the dust. Similarly, if you trim your rose bush, it's not negative action implying that the rose is imperfect. Instead, it's tangible action to try to improve its appearance. Or if a hill triber says something to me in English, and I gently correct a part of her grammar, I'm not putting her down. Whatever I write in this thread, is toward striving for improvements. It's one person's perspective.

Some of the improvements I suggest are very low cost or, in the case of putting trash in receptacles (or even having trash bins in convenient places) ....are essentially free. After the new bridge was built, I made a mention on ThaiVisa about that very dynamic. There was trash strewn around under the bridge. I mentioned it. A week later there were bins and much less trash on the ground. Did I have an effect? I don't know, but it's nice to think that maybe I did.

When I first moved to C.Rai in 1998, I noticed at Tachilek there were vendors' stalls selling tiger and leopard pelts. I took photos (including some very angry-looking venders' mugs), and posted them online with text. this was before Facebook existed. A couple months later: no cat skins on display there, and none since (maybe they're now hidden). Again, did my blurb have any affect? I don't know. But it's too easy for retired middle aged farang to just sit back and veg and say "There's absolutely nothing we can do which will have any affect on what happens in Thailand." Similarly, I have a 72 year old friend from San Diego who has been visiting Thailand twice/year for a half century, and he tells me; "Ken, why do you even write letters to the newspapers? Nothing you say can ever have any affect for change." Why indeed?

[villagefarang]

The why part is easy. It satisfies a personal need of yours and helps to support your own self image. Whether or not there is a measurable effect or outcome is of no real consequence. If it makes you feel good then by all means continue. No matter what you do, there will be those who both agree and disagree, so continue what you are doing.

[ajarnsiam]

VF you recently described yourself as blase, and I certainly wouldn't disagree with you about that. But as a matter of interest, are there any issues that do concern you enough to try to do something about.

I'm away this weekend and won't be online for a few days, so don't take it personally that I don't reply.

[johnmarhall]

VF you recently described yourself as blase, and I certainly wouldn't disagree with you about that. But as a matter of interest, are there any issues that do concern you enough to try to do something about.

I'm away this weekend and won't be online for a few days, so don't take it personally that I don't reply.

• Blase | Define Blase at Dictionary.com

  dictionary.reference.com/browse/blaseแปลหน้านี้

  indifferent to or bored with life; unimpressed, as or as if from an excess of worldly pleasures. Origin: 1810–20; < French, past participle of blaser to cloy, sicken ...
• Urban Dictionary: blasé

  www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=blaseแปลหน้านี้

  blasé. Being uninterested due to the matter being overexposed.(unconcerned). I felt blasé to the fact that I had to clean my room. by Denis Kabistan September ...
• Blasé dictionary definition | blasé defined - YourDictionary

  www.yourdictionary.com › Dictionary Definitionsแปลหน้านี้

  The definition of blasé is showing a lack of excitement about something because it has already become very familiar. An example of blasé is a child celebrity ..

[boomerangutang]

The why part is easy. It satisfies a personal need of yours and helps to support your own self image. Whether or not there is a measurable effect or outcome is of no real consequence. If it makes you feel good then by all means continue. No matter what you do, there will be those who both agree and disagree, so continue what you are doing.

I guess in that philosophical perspective; taking action (including writing letters, etc) is as much a statement as taking no action. Now, we're sounding zen.

[villagefarang]

VF you recently described yourself as blase, and I certainly wouldn't disagree with you about that. But as a matter of interest, are there any issues that do concern you enough to try to do something about.

I'm away this weekend and won't be online for a few days, so don't take it personally that I don't reply.

The short answer is probably no. I see myself as neither sheep nor shepherd. I am neither authoritarian by nature nor am I easily coerced into doing things I don’t wish to do. I prefer to observe and understand but not interfere or change.

I may not admire the choices made by others but I do not see it as my job to force them to do things my way. As long as I have lived in Thailand I still don’t feel inclined to tell them how to live their lives, just as I would not appreciate others telling me what to do.

[villagefarang]

The why part is easy. It satisfies a personal need of yours and helps to support your own self image. Whether or not there is a measurable effect or outcome is of no real consequence. If it makes you feel good then by all means continue. No matter what you do, there will be those who both agree and disagree, so continue what you are doing.

I guess in that philosophical perspective; taking action (including writing letters, etc) is as much a statement as taking no action. Now, we're sounding zen.

I still think you might find people more responsive if you left out the unnecessary snide remarks about Thais and Chinese. I don’t respond well to irrational and emotionally charged arguments but then again in this modern polarized world those arguments do get a lot of support, just maybe not from the people you want to influence.

[boomerangutang]

Snide, perhaps. It's subjective. Much of how a person reacts to a statement is how that person chooses to field it. And it's largely psychological. I can show a group a pic of a fat girl in a swimsuit waiting for the starting whistle for a swimming race. Half observers might say how frumpy she looks (and/or has no chance of winning), and the other half might say what a great thing that an overweight girl is contesting the race.

I admit I have a less-than-sterling attitude about rich Chinese. It stems, in part, from decades of observations and other things which would take too long to articulate here. We're complicated beings. All of us have reams of experiences behind us. If you want to just hear rosy and/or politically correct reports, then that's your choice. I'd rather hear the frank truth. Granted, on the other side of coin, cynicism can easily get overdone also. Again, that's subjective and many words could be bandied around on that topic also.

[harrry]

Snide, perhaps. It's subjective. Much of how a person reacts to a statement is how that person chooses to field it. And it's largely psychological. I can show a group a pic of a fat girl in a swimsuit waiting for the starting whistle for a swimming race. Half observers might say how frumpy she looks (and/or has no chance of winning), and the other half might say what a great thing that an overweight girl is contesting the race.

I admit I have a less-than-sterling attitude about rich Chinese. It stems, in part, from decades of observations and other things which would take too long to articulate here. We're complicated beings. All of us have reams of experiences behind us. If you want to just hear rosy and/or politically correct reports, then that's your choice. I'd rather hear the frank truth. Granted, on the other side of coin, cynicism can easily get overdone also. Again, that's subjective and many words could be bandied around on that topic also.

I think you will find that most will just say look, there is a swimmer, I hope she does well in the race.

Not everyone stereotypes people. Many take things as they are and give credit where it is due.

[villagefarang]

Snide, perhaps. It's subjective. Much of how a person reacts to a statement is how that person chooses to field it. And it's largely psychological. I can show a group a pic of a fat girl in a swimsuit waiting for the starting whistle for a swimming race. Half observers might say how frumpy she looks (and/or has no chance of winning), and the other half might say what a great thing that an overweight girl is contesting the race.

I admit I have a less-than-sterling attitude about rich Chinese. It stems, in part, from decades of observations and other things which would take too long to articulate here. We're complicated beings. All of us have reams of experiences behind us. If you want to just hear rosy and/or politically correct reports, then that's your choice. I'd rather hear the frank truth. Granted, on the other side of coin, cynicism can easily get overdone also. Again, that's subjective and many words could be bandied around on that topic also.

I still think one can be truthful without the insults. The way something is presented is often as important as what is said. Polite is not necessarily rosy or untruthful. If you want to get something done is helps to be polite.

[rijb]

I’ve noticed that adults who constantly preach morality (and etiquette) are usually trying to compensate for their own weaknesses.

​Is this thread about improving CR or our inner-selves?

Edited July 6, 2014 by rijb

[villagefarang]

Does it have to be one or the other and while we are here what is your contribution to this topic?

[rijb]

Did I hit a nerve?