Bodies of three missing teens found in West Bank - reports

[webfact]

Bodies of three missing teens found in West Bank - reports

JERUSALEM - Israeli security forces on Monday found the bodies of three teenagers who went missing in the West Bank earlier this month and confirmed them as the Israeli seminary students sought since June 12, Israeli media said.

Al Jazeera television, quoting Israeli sources, also reported that the bodies had been found and said the inner Israeli cabinet was to hold an emergency meeting later in the evening.

Israel has accused the Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas, which has its power base in the Gaza Strip, of being behind the abduction of the teenagers. Hamas has neither confirmed nor denied involvement.

Israel sent large forces to areas of the West Bank to look for Gil-Ad Shaer and U.S.-Israeli national Naftali Fraenkel, both 16, and Eyal Yifrah, 19. The three went missing near a settlement in the occupied West Bank.

Full story: http://www.enca.com/bodies-three-missing-teens-found-west-bank-reports

-- eNCA 2014-07-01

[phantomfiddler]

Get out the umbrellas, there will be a few flying missiles over this one

[kamahele]

This is a terrible tragedy for the parents of these teenagers. I hope they find the killers and bring them to justice. I have had my concerns / opinions over the handling of this situation by the Israeli government. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist organization, however, did the Israeli government jump the gun in blaming them without evidence and then running roughshod through the countryside, arresting people with no evidence of wrong doing and destroying personal property? Normally the MO of Hamas is to take hostages and hold them until they get a deal to release Palestinians in Israeli jails. In this case, they didn't gloat about the kidnapping and the victims were killed. The death of these boys would be no good to Hamas. Splinter group? Independents? Crime gone wrong?

[Somtamnication]

And hundreds of Palestinians joined in the search for these teens. But Israel will overlook that.

[webfact]

Israeli air strikes after bodies of kidnapped teens found
Hazem Bader

Halhul: Two men named by Israel as prime suspects in the kidnapping and death of three teenagers had their homes destroyed, Palestinian witnesses said.

Marwan Qawasmeh and Amer Abu Eishe remain at large but witnesses said troops blew up their homes early on Tuesday.

Israel found the bodies of three missing teenagers on Monday, accusing Hamas of their murder and vowing to make the Islamist movement pay.

"This evening, we found three bodies and all the signs indicate that they are the bodies of our three kidnapped youngsters," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told ministers during an emergency session of his security cabinet on Monday.

"They were kidnapped and murdered in cold blood by human animals," he said. "Hamas is responsible and Hamas will pay."

Full story: http://www.theage.com.au/world/israeli-air-strikes-after-bodies-of-kidnapped-teens-found-20140701-zsrvv.html


-- The Age 2014-07-01

[SOTIRIOS]

........Hamas DENIED involvement........

[Ulysses G.]

And hundreds of Palestinians joined in the search for these teens. But Israel will overlook that.

Do you have any evidence of that? I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I can't find any confirmation. I did find reports that rocks and firebombs were thrown at the Israeli searchers by Arabs.

There are some reports in Israel that they weren't actually hitchhiking. They were at a bus stop and helping an Arab boy whose car broke down. They helped push the car, apparently, at which point they were ambushed and kidnapped

[Ulysses G.]

........Hamas DENIED involvement........

Can't blame them for lying trying, but it won't help them in the end.

[amerasian]

Only blood gets respect

[Suradit69]

The thai army should blow up the houses of the terrorists down south, like the Israelis are doing. That would make family members think twice about hiding and sheltering terrorist sons and nephews etc.

Yes nothing like a little collective punishment to demonstrate the moral high ground. If the Israelis do it, it must be OK.

Collective punishments

Article 33. No persons may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.

Pillage is prohibited.

Reprisals against persons and their property are prohibited.

Under the 1949 Geneva Conventions, collective punishment is a war crime. By collective punishment, the drafters of the Geneva Conventions had in mind the reprisal killings of World War I and World War II. In the First World War, during the Rape of Belgium, the Germans executed Belgian villagers in mass retribution forresistance activity. In World War II, the Germans carried out a form of collective punishment to suppress resistance. Entire villages or towns or districts were held responsible for any resistance activity that occurred in them.^[3] The conventions, to counter this, reiterated the principle of individual responsibility. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) Commentary to the conventions states that parties to a conflict often would resort to "intimidatory measures to terrorize the population" in hopes of preventing hostile acts, but such practices "strike at guilty and innocent alike. They are opposed to all principles based on humanity and justice."

Additional Protocol II of 1977 explicitly forbids collective punishment. But as fewer states have ratified this protocol than GCIV, GCIV Article 33 is the one more commonly quoted.

[ClutchClark]

They look like they were decent kids, no doubt anger and emotions are running high, but in my country we hold trials and allow the accused and the prosecution to present evidence. If the evidence is sufficient to warrant a conviction then, and only then, do we exact punishment on the guilty party.

That is what we call "The rule of law".

We don't retaliate through sanctioned military force against anyone loosely affiliated with the accused.

That is not justice.

My sympathies to the boys families.

[Ulysses G.]

Huh? Your country sometimes uses drones to take out terrorists - with no trial at all - and that includes your own citizens. The rules are different when it comes to waging war on unlawful combatants.

[Pattszero]

Some crimes seem to sear deeper than others. My first reaction when I saw this headline last night was dread.

This was the act of a psychopath(s) - psychopaths cannot be allowed to run the agenda. It will be better for Israel if the response is legal.

Rise above.

However, I fear an eye for an eye mentality will win out.

[Morch]

Get out the umbrellas, there will be a few flying missiles over this one

The current round of hostilities in the Gaza Strip began a little earlier than the kidnapping.

Mostly they were not related - has more to do with difficulties implementing the unification process between Hamas and

the PA. One of the main issues is that Hamas is broke and cannot afford to pay salaries for its own government and

municipal officers. The PA turned back on an understanding they'll pick the tab and now the situation is a bit in limbo.

This in turn lead to further deterioration of Hamas's hold on things in the Gaza Strip, and traditionally, these setbacks are

compensated by allowing (or taking) a more confrontational stance vs. Israel.

Rockets from Gaza and air raids from Israel been going on for weeks now.

There were (and are) assessments on both sides, since about three months ago that a new round of fighting will take place

this year. More than one factor leading to this, but the kidnapping is just added fuel.

[Ulysses G.]

This was the act of a psychopath(s) - psychopaths cannot be allowed to run the agenda.

The problem is that psychopaths run at least half of the Palestinian government and Israel is pretty sure that they were behind the kidnappings.

[Wat dee]

Sorry to hear about this...Other excuse for Israeli terrorists to destroy Palestinian life's and property. Hope to see the day Palestinians live free in their own country.

[Morch]

This is a terrible tragedy for the parents of these teenagers. I hope they find the killers and bring them to justice. I have had my concerns / opinions over the handling of this situation by the Israeli government. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist organization, however, did the Israeli government jump the gun in blaming them without evidence and then running roughshod through the countryside, arresting people with no evidence of wrong doing and destroying personal property? Normally the MO of Hamas is to take hostages and hold them until they get a deal to release Palestinians in Israeli jails. In this case, they didn't gloat about the kidnapping and the victims were killed. The death of these boys would be no good to Hamas. Splinter group? Independents? Crime gone wrong?

The two kidnapper's identity was apparently known to Israeli security forces within days of the kidnapping. Both were imprisoned in the past for terrorist related actions, and both got Hamas connections (one is certainly a member). While I agree that some of the mass arrests were clearly intended to press the local populace into divulging information - the assertion that all of the actions taken were not based on evidence is incorrect. Most of those arrested were released rather quickly, by the way.

The Hamas is a somewhat fractured organization - the military wing operated pretty independently from the political wing, and is not, in reality, exactly subordinate. In addition, military wing elements in the West Bank sometimes operate independently of the Gaza Strip military wing leadership - as apparently happened with the current case.

Hamas political leadership would not necessarily be immediately privy to details, and in this situation, possible that even the military wing leadership was not in the loop. Contrary to what you posted - that did not stop them from gloating and giving their blessing to the kidnapping.

Guess details would be available when kidnappers will be in custody, but my guess is that they intended to kidnap, with the plan going South.

[chuckd]

This is a terrible tragedy for the parents of these teenagers. I hope they find the killers and bring them to justice. I have had my concerns / opinions over the handling of this situation by the Israeli government. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist organization, however, did the Israeli government jump the gun in blaming them without evidence and then running roughshod through the countryside, arresting people with no evidence of wrong doing and destroying personal property? Normally the MO of Hamas is to take hostages and hold them until they get a deal to release Palestinians in Israeli jails. In this case, they didn't gloat about the kidnapping and the victims were killed. The death of these boys would be no good to Hamas. Splinter group? Independents? Crime gone wrong?

"A Hamas leader praised the kidnappers last week but would “neither confirm nor deny” that his organization was responsible. “Blessed be the hands that captured them,” Hamas’s Khalad Mashaal said, according to the Times of Israel. “This is a Palestinian duty, the responsibility of the Palestinian people. Our prisoners must be freed; not Hamas’s prisoners — the prisoners of the Palestinian people.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/381613/obama-urges-israel-not-destabilize-situation-after-hamas-murdered-teens-joel-gehrke?

...and...

"Israeli forces searched more than 1,000 sites for the missing teenagers, rounding up Hamas and Islamic Jihad suspects as part of the operation. Last week, the Israel Security Agency identified two Hamas operatives from Hebron as key suspects in the kidnappings, Ammar Muhammad Abu Eisha, 33, a locksmith, and Marwan al-Qawasmeh, 29, a barber. Both men allegedly disappeared from their homes on the night of the kidnapping have not been seen since."

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/01/bodies-israeli-kidnapped-teens-found-government-confirms/

[Morch]

And hundreds of Palestinians joined in the search for these teens. But Israel will overlook that.

Abbas's reaction and position to the kidnapping are to be commended. Taking a rather unpopular stand in relation to Palestinian

public opinion is not trivial. Of course there were some political considerations involved, but still - refreshing that people can be

reasonable in this region.

I'm aware that Palestinian security forces helped in action related to the search (a gesture which was actually acknowledged by

the Israeli PM who called to thank Abbas), but not familiar with reports regarding "hundreds of Palestinians" joining the search -

unless this refers to the same. Would appreciate a link/source, if true than indeed deserves more mention.

[capcc76]

The thai army should blow up the houses of the terrorists down south, like the Israelis are doing. That would make family members think twice about hiding and sheltering terrorist sons and nephews etc.

Yes nothing like a little collective punishment to demonstrate the moral high ground. If the Israelis do it, it must be OK.

Collective punishments

Article 33. No persons may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.

Pillage is prohibited.

Reprisals against persons and their property are prohibited.

Under the 1949 Geneva Conventions, collective punishment is a war crime. By collective punishment, the drafters of the Geneva Conventions had in mind the reprisal killings of World War I and World War II. In the First World War, during the Rape of Belgium, the Germans executed Belgian villagers in mass retribution forresistance activity. In World War II, the Germans carried out a form of collective punishment to suppress resistance. Entire villages or towns or districts were held responsible for any resistance activity that occurred in them.^[3] The conventions, to counter this, reiterated the principle of individual responsibility. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) Commentary to the conventions states that parties to a conflict often would resort to "intimidatory measures to terrorize the population" in hopes of preventing hostile acts, but such practices "strike at guilty and innocent alike. They are opposed to all principles based on humanity and justice."

Additional Protocol II of 1977 explicitly forbids collective punishment. But as fewer states have ratified this protocol than GCIV, GCIV Article 33 is the one more commonly quoted.

Sometimes it just ain't about moral high ground, it just has to be done to protect the greater masses and is the thing to do. There is no moral high ground or low ground with these terrorists. They have no morals so morality is not am issue here.

[Morch]

The thai army should blow up the houses of the terrorists down south, like the Israelis are doing. That would make family members think twice about hiding and sheltering terrorist sons and nephews etc.

Yes nothing like a little collective punishment to demonstrate the moral high ground. If the Israelis do it, it must be OK.

Collective punishments

Article 33. No persons may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.

Pillage is prohibited.

Reprisals against persons and their property are prohibited.

Under the 1949 Geneva Conventions, collective punishment is a war crime. By collective punishment, the drafters of the Geneva Conventions had in mind the reprisal killings of World War I and World War II. In the First World War, during the Rape of Belgium, the Germans executed Belgian villagers in mass retribution forresistance activity. In World War II, the Germans carried out a form of collective punishment to suppress resistance. Entire villages or towns or districts were held responsible for any resistance activity that occurred in them.^[3] The conventions, to counter this, reiterated the principle of individual responsibility. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) Commentary to the conventions states that parties to a conflict often would resort to "intimidatory measures to terrorize the population" in hopes of preventing hostile acts, but such practices "strike at guilty and innocent alike. They are opposed to all principles based on humanity and justice."

Additional Protocol II of 1977 explicitly forbids collective punishment. But as fewer states have ratified this protocol than GCIV, GCIV Article 33 is the one more commonly quoted.

Indeed.

Quite obviously, it does not serve as a great deterrent as well.

[Morch]

They look like they were decent kids, no doubt anger and emotions are running high, but in my country we hold trials and allow the accused and the prosecution to present evidence. If the evidence is sufficient to warrant a conviction then, and only then, do we exact punishment on the guilty party.

That is what we call "The rule of law".

We don't retaliate through sanctioned military force against anyone loosely affiliated with the accused.

That is not justice.

My sympathies to the boys families.

Patently untrue. Drone attacks?

I do not condone collective punishment. It is evil and pretty useless.

I also doubt that you have a clear idea in regards to lack of evidence, in this case.

That it is not a prefect (or even anything remotely close to perfect) just situation is true.

[Morch]

This was the act of a psychopath(s) - psychopaths cannot be allowed to run the agenda.

The problem is that psychopaths run at least half of the Palestinian government and Israel is pretty sure that they were behind the kidnappings.

Eye for an eye advocates are in presence on both sides.

Some even say that eye for an eye is sissy, and that eyes should be poked preemptively.

Crazies everywhere.

[Steely Dan]

The mother of one of the prime suspects denied his involvement, but went on to say if he was involved she would be proud of him till her dying day. And if her house is bulldozed terrorist sympathizers and their liberal enablers will squeal 'collective punishment'. There are many millionaire mansions in the Gaza Strip belonging to their leadership, personally I would turn them all into rubble.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Morch]

The mother of one of the prime suspects denied his involvement, but went on to say if he was involved she would be proud of him till her dying day. And if her house is bulldozed terrorist sympathizers and their liberal enablers will squeal 'collective punishment'. There are many millionaire mansions in the Gaza Strip belonging to their leadership, personally I would turn them all into rubble.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

What would demolishing her house achieve?

Not as if this form of collective punishment has been proven to bear exceptional results.

People aren't deterred by this, just makes them more determined and instils hatred for future generations.

As for going after leadership, and people/facilities directly involved - yes.

Makes more sense and much more effective. Harder to do though.

[Steely Dan]

How can you instill any more hatred in someone who celebrates murder of children? As I stated target the houses of the Hamas leadership, they are the ones responsible for the endemic hatred of Jews caused by their insane ideology and broadcast through their media. And yes we do agree on targeted measures.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ClutchClark]

They look like they were decent kids, no doubt anger and emotions are running high, but in my country we hold trials and allow the accused and the prosecution to present evidence. If the evidence is sufficient to warrant a conviction then, and only then, do we exact punishment on the guilty party.

That is what we call "The rule of law".

We don't retaliate through sanctioned military force against anyone loosely affiliated with the accused.

That is not justice.

My sympathies to the boys families.

Patently untrue. Drone attacks?

I do not condone collective punishment. It is evil and pretty useless.

I also doubt that you have a clear idea in regards to lack of evidence, in this case.

That it is not a prefect (or even anything remotely close to perfect) just situation is true.

I never suggested there was a lack of evidence--simply that it was never presented to a Court.

I am confident that Israel had collected evidence just like they had found out the location of the bodies.

As for drone attacks...yes, please forgive me, sometimes my mind takes me back to an America with values that no longer exist. We do have drone attacks today. I find them as distasteful as this action by Israel...except in about 10% of the cases.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Morch]

How can you instill any more hatred in someone who celebrates murder of children? As I stated target the houses of the Hamas leadership, they are the ones responsible for the endemic hatred of Jews caused by their insane ideology and broadcast through their media. And yes we do agree on targeted measures.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I do not refer to a specific instance of collective punishment/house demolition. Aside from the moral issue, there is little evidence to support that these actions carry substantial gain in either combating terror or changing the mindset of the population.

There are good reasons for the Palestinian to hate the Israelis, and that is not something that's going to go away anytime soon. If bulldozing a house does not help much in the present, but practically guarantees the impossibility of attitude change (small as it may be) - it might not be the best policy.

[simple1]

How can you instill any more hatred in someone who celebrates murder of children? As I stated target the houses of the Hamas leadership, they are the ones responsible for the endemic hatred of Jews caused by their insane ideology and broadcast through their media. And yes we do agree on targeted measures.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I do not refer to a specific instance of collective punishment/house demolition. Aside from the moral issue, there is little evidence

to support that these actions carry substantial gain in either combating terror or changing the mindset of the population.

There are good reasons for the Palestinian to hate the Israelis, and that is not something that's going to go away anytime soon.

If bulldozing a house does not help much in the present, but practically guarantees the impossibility of attitude change (small as

it may be) - it might not be the best policy.

Have a read of an article "searing hypocrisy of the west" concerning the Israeli / Western response to the murdered teenagers. Even though you may not / will not concur with a number of the statements, it's worth reading as it goes give a good insight to a Palestinian Muslim POV.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-searing-hypocrisy-of-the-west/article6163918.ece

[Aussieroaming]

3 dead kids...what heroes