Questions on the crackdown

[BlueEasySleep]

1. I remember the crackdown on land entries in 2011, which was not so long after the reds took over the government. I assumed the two things were related. This recent crackdown began while the reds were still hanging on to power prior to the coup. I wonder if the change in government will mean a change in immigration policy. And with the massive harm done to the tourist industry during the protests and the coup, wouldn't it make sense to relax visa policy rather than crackdown on it? Is there any hope that things will loosen as the government changes, and the current policy changes happening now may soon be lifted?

2. The English teaching industry is heavily dependent on illegal workers. Probably half of them or more do not have work permits. This is even more true outside of Bangkok. This crackdown, if it continues, will thus remove a large amount of teachers from Thailand over the next year or so, as many of them are denied re-entry and desert their positions. With Asean looming and Thailand already far behind in English competency, how does Thailand expect to teach English in schools? Wages never rise, and again with all the political problems, Thailand is not all that attractive for native teachers anymore. What will happen to the teaching industry with half of its teachers gone?

3. I'm curious if anyone knows why over 50 year olds with a pension are welcomed with a special visa, while under 50 year olds with cash are now being asked to leave. What is the rationale? Why is over 50 and foreign desirable for the country?

[Pattszero]

1.) They don't want people living illegally in Thailand.

2.) They don't want people working illegally in Thailand.

3.) They don't want under 50's that can't be bothered getting an appropriate visa living in Thailand.

[glegolo]

3. Maybe because they are NOT taking money from the thais, Which is a way of putting it like thais do... Whenever a falang comes here to Thailand and work, "they take money from Thailand"... They are just not interested to learn, not to gain from other peoples knowledge,, And why should they,, they know everyting already from the very start!!

Glegolo

Edited July 1, 2014 by glegolo

[BlueEasySleep]

They could make the same bank requirements for under 50s as they do for over 50s. I don't see that as making any sense.

[sotsira]

It wasn't that long ago that the retirement rule was reduced from i think 60yrs of age

to 50yrs, so in actual fact it's been made easier to retire in Thailand.

Why 50yrs old, well, they have to draw the line somewhere, and it's unlikely that under 50's

will be wanting to retire anyway, it's just common sense.

As for your other questions, on working illegally, well this is what they want to stop, by

enforcing the rules to make everyone get the correct visas and work permits and then

pay income tax too.

[BlueEasySleep]

It wasn't that long ago that the retirement rule was reduced from i think 60yrs of age

to 50yrs, so in actual fact it's been made easier to retire in Thailand.

Why 50yrs old, well, they have to draw the line somewhere, and it's unlikely that under 50's

will be wanting to retire anyway, it's just common sense.

As for your other questions, on working illegally, well this is what they want to stop, by

enforcing the rules to make everyone get the correct visas and work permits and then

pay income tax too.

Can't anybody retire if they have enough money to support themselves? Why do you need to be a certain age?

You need to have a university degree to get a work permit, and many teachers don't have that. So it's not going to make everyone pay more tax, it's going to force a lot of teachers to leave. Thus leaving many schools with no foreign english teachers. What is the major benefit for the country in that?

[sotsira]

Off coarse you can retire at any age if you have the money, but if under 50yrs you

become the minority and the retirement visa rules are based on the majority.

I think the rule is very lenient by it being set at 50yrs and not higher.

I also don't think that there is any rule that states you need a university degree to

get a work permit, i know a few people with work permits and they certainly don't

have degrees, but they certainly do have to pay income tax.

I have a question for you,

why is it that there are rules on age discrimination in nearly every country in the world?

for many things such as;

driving license

drinking alcohol

smoking

watching movies

marriage

retirement (usually 65yrs in most western countries)

entering certain night clubs

etc etc etc...

[Pattszero]

Number 3 is just the standard impetuous nonsense we see all the time. If you have money and want to live in Thailand under 50, go get the Thai Elite Card - 500,000 baht for five years.

Thailand has exceptionally generous visa options.

[Timwin]

Don't try to make sense of Thailand's visa rules. Those are arbitrary, unfair and xenophobic mess of rules. In the West strict rules make sense because there are benefit seekers costing taxpayer's a lot of money while in Thailand there are no welfare, no social safety net underneath. A lot of people will just take their chances and overstay after August.

Thailand would benefit hugely if the rules were more relaxed Cambodia style for foreigners but that would be a threat to the existing Bangkok elite. So they are not going to change those rules.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Timwin

[Timwin]

Number 3 is just the standard impetuous nonsense we see all the time. If you have money and want to live in Thailand under 50, go get the Thai Elite Card - 500,000 baht for five years.

Thailand has exceptionally generous visa options.

Bullsh*t. Over 16000 dollars (3225 per year!) wasted while you can get 12 month business visa in Cambodia for 280 dollars.

[Pattszero]

Number 3 is just the standard impetuous nonsense we see all the time. If you have money and want to live in Thailand under 50, go get the Thai Elite Card - 500,000 baht for five years.

Thailand has exceptionally generous visa options.

Bullsh*t. Over 16000 dollars (3225 per year!) wasted while you can get 12 month business visa in Cambodia for 280 dollars.

Go live on Cambodia then - see you later

[BlueEasySleep]

Was hoping for a higher level of discussion.

Just trying to understand thai thinking and the rules.

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[Mario2008]

1 post removed.

No political discussions in the visa forum.

[happynthailand]

just a thought:

you knew the visa rules before you came to Thailand,

if you don't like the vias rules,stay home

don't come to Thailand then start bitching about the visa rules

noboby is makeing you stay here

just my 50stang worth

[MrWorldwide]

Is it just me, or didnt we already discuss this at great length ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/738160-the-options-for-under-50s-who-dont-want-to-work-in-thailand/

At least 4 or 5 other threads currently running that also discuss the options for the under 50 folk but its clear that very few were keen on either the Ed visa or the Elite card but they remain options nonetheless.

[garydubbs]

Number 3 is just the standard impetuous nonsense we see all the time. If you have money and want to live in Thailand under 50, go get the Thai Elite Card - 500,000 baht for five years.

Thailand has exceptionally generous visa options.

Bullsh*t. Over 16000 dollars (3225 per year!) wasted while you can get 12 month business visa in Cambodia for 280 dollars.

you get what you pay for been to phnong phen recently?

[MrWorldwide]

I dont think anyone has been to Phnong Phen. Ever.

[simon43]

You need to have a university degree to get a work permit

Not true. There is no requirement to have a degree to get a WP.

There is a requirement by the Teachers' Council that foreign teachers in schools (not language centres) need a degree (any degree), but that is not a requirement of the Labour Office.

I think many foreign teachers will have a problem getting the correct visa now, - not because they don't have a degree, but because their employer is either ignorant of the WP application/document process, or cannot be bothered to follow that process - think degree-qualified Filipino/a teachers on low salaries.

Other than teaching, often, a foreigner will need a degree to justify his/her employment over that of a Thai for the same job.

[aidenai]

There is a requirement by the Teachers' Council that foreign teachers in schools (not language centres) need a degree (any degree), but that is not a requirement of the Labour Office.

True but there are dependencies. According to the WP.1 and WP.1 documentation, foreign teachers working in basic education, do need a provisional teaching permit or teacher license issued by the Teachers Council of Thailand. Further more, applying for an extension of the permission of temporary stay requires the same.

[sotsira]

Was hoping for a higher level of discussion.

Just trying to understand thai thinking and the rules.

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If you want to understand Thai thinking, it's quite simple,

it's about generating money from foreigners who wish to stay in Thailand long term.

That means paying for the correct visas.

Having sufficient funds in Thailand for visa extensions.(marriage & retirement)

Paying for your work permits.

Paying your income tax.

Paying for the Elite Card, Education or Investment visa.

Only the Visa Exemption entry is free, that's why there is a crackdown on it as it's

only designed for short term stayers up to 15 or 30 days and then to leave the country.

In other words it's utilised mainly by tourists on short holidays to visit, spend their money

and go home.

[JomtienEats]

>3. I'm curious if anyone knows why over 50 year olds with a pension are welcomed with a special visa, while under 50 year olds with cash are now being asked to leave. What is the rationale? Why is over 50 and foreign desirable for the country?

That's a well put question. I suspect it is just an unintended, and maybe unanticipated, consequence of the current crackdown on border-runners. I imagine immigration was hoping they would all pony up for Thai Elite cards, but instead they're applying for Ed Visas . . . so that's seeing a bit of a crackdown too. Most of the targets are under 50 and/or don't have liquid funds, so they can't apply for retirement visas.

From an immigration point of view, a well-heeled 40 year old with a substantial income or wealth is more desirable that a 50 year old with a meagre income or savings . . . but if the 40 year old is so well off, why not buy the 500,000 baht 5yr elite card? Maybe it is a little inflexible - a 100,000/year card would probably see better uptake.

[biggles45]

"but if the 40 year old is so well off, why not buy the 500,000 baht 5yr elite card? "

Perhaps because this is Thailand and what is promised when you pay up means nothing when they have your money. Remember Elite Mark 1.

[paz]

Perhaps because this is Thailand and what is promised when you pay up means nothing when they have your money. Remember Elite Mark 1.

Actually Elite Mk I is in normally honored except minor downgrade in some service. One can come, stay and leave as he/she please.

I have a friend using it, or you can read many threads in this forum.

Edited July 2, 2014 by paz

[ubonjoe]

>3. I'm curious if anyone knows why over 50 year olds with a pension are welcomed with a special visa, while under 50 year olds with cash are now being asked to leave. What is the rationale? Why is over 50 and foreign desirable for the country?

I cannot see that anybody is being asked to leave. They just want people to use visas instead of doing border runs for exempt entries. I think a lot people are making a lot more out of the tightening up of the rules than there really is.

It is still going to be possible to get tourist visas.

[JomtienEats]

"but if the 40 year old is so well off, why not buy the 500,000 baht 5yr elite card? "

Perhaps because this is Thailand and what is promised when you pay up means nothing when they have your money. Remember Elite Mark 1.

Yes, in Thailand, today's elite can be tomorrow's fugitive and vice versa. They'd sell more if they offered it year-by-year, but whoever thought it up wanted all the money at once . . . maybe they didn't expect to be around for too long

[phuketrichard]

You need to have a university degree to get a work permit

Not true. There is no requirement to have a degree to get a WP.

There is a requirement by the Teachers' Council that foreign teachers in schools (not language centres) need a degree (any degree), but that is not a requirement of the Labour Office.

I think many foreign teachers will have a problem getting the correct visa now, - not because they don't have a degree, but because their employer is either ignorant of the WP application/document process, or cannot be bothered to follow that process - think degree-qualified Filipino/a teachers on low salaries.

Other than teaching, often, a foreigner will need a degree to justify his/her employment over that of a Thai for the same job.

not true at all;

MY Cambodian gf got a wp for doing marketing work and does not have a degree.

[knackers6969]

Was hoping for a higher level of discussion.

Just trying to understand thai thinking and the rules.

Sent from my GT-I8552B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Higher level of discussion?? Not on this forum.

It seems there are a group of certain people that abuse and criticize just about every thread. Good luck getting a good conversation going.......You'll probably find out who they are shortly..........

[BlueEasySleep]

Why do under 50 year olds need to pay 500,000 baht for a sketchy "elite" visa that had problems in the past when over 50 year olds only need to make a deposit in a bank that remains theirs?

The rules change every time the government changes. But I'll never understand why being 50 and up is considered an asset, especially given the greater likelihood of needing expensive healthcare services which they may not be able to pay for on a pension.

Some teaching companies and even many schools are incapable or unwilling to provide their teachers with a visa and a work permit. This is not the fault of the teachers, who are then forced to work illegally.

And what about people who work or study, but have a gap between jobs or visas that they'd like to fill with a tourist visa or a 30 day entry? From what I've heard and experienced, many of them will be turned away and barred from re-entering the country to interview for a new job or get the paperwork for a new visa.

I currently have a proper ED visa from a university, and arrived at Suvarnabhumi a couple months ago and was sternly questioned and then passed off to a supervisor because I didn't have my thai university ID card with me in my carryon luggage when returning from a trip to Europe. And I had a very proper ED visa from a government university.

You can't go from a complete free-for-all immigration policy directly to treating foreigners like 9 month pregnant Mexicans.

The idea that we're milking the Thai economy is laughable. I don't think there's a single Westerner in Thailand who's made more money than he's spent.

[LuckyLew]

Was hoping for a higher level of discussion.

Just trying to understand thai thinking and the rules.

Sent from my GT-I8552B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

How about all the teachers band together and find away to get themselves sorted with proper work visas?

Sorry but I do not feel teachers should be given special privelages, if other foreigners need a work permit so should ALL teachers.

If a teacher decides to work without a permit they are breaking the law and shold either refuse the work or move to school that is will to get or assist in getting a visa.

Why do they have these rules? So they know who is in the country, why they are in the country, what they are doing in the country and where in the country they are. Sure the tax income helps too.

[BlueEasySleep]

The amount of money to be gained from income tax revenue is much smaller than the amount of money that will be lost from foreigners going elsewhere.

And both numbers greatly pale in comparison to the amount of money lost in the rice scheme.