Questions on the crackdown

[BlueEasySleep]

They could make the same bank requirements for under 50s as they do for over 50s. I don't see that as making any sense.

They have decided that they will welcome retirees who have enough pension income or savings to live here, as a retiree.

It is perhaps hard for them to grasp that there may be under 50's who are already financially sound and no longer wish to work.

At what age do you think a retirement visa / (dosser visa ) should be obtainable? 49, 39, 29, 19 or 9?

As I said before, it should be available to anyone with enough money to support themselves without working.

Sent from my GT-I8552B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mojaco]

They could make the same bank requirements for under 50s as they do for over 50s. I don't see that as making any sense.

They have decided that they will welcome retirees who have enough pension income or savings to live here, as a retiree.

It is perhaps hard for them to grasp that there may be under 50's who are already financially sound and no longer wish to work.

At what age do you think a retirement visa / (dosser visa ) should be obtainable? 49, 39, 29, 19 or 9?

As I said before, it should be available to anyone with enough money to support themselves without working.

Sent from my GT-I8552B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sometimes for my "retirement" extension they stamp in my passport Chai Chiwit Ban Bplai which (loosely translated I believe" is "Using the end of one's life" or "At the end of one's life". If this is the intent of the "retirement extension" then a young person wouldn't want to be in such a state, would they? :-)

[MrWorldwide]

Reminds me of the infamous 'Suspected Hippy In Transit' stamp allegedly used in Singapore some years back. Apparently it was a badge of honor for the scruffier travellers of the day to have a Singaporean SHIT stamp in their passport.

[garydubbs]

Desirable long term guests in any country should be:

1. Those who have expertise in business/science/etc and can fill positions of professional need. This would include English teachers.

2. Those who have money and want to spend it, regardless of their age. This would include those who spend money on education.

agree but i fail to see your point?

1 is welcome but must apply for work permit

2 is welcome but must apply for ED visa

[simon43]

Other than teaching, often, a foreigner will need a degree to justify his/her employment over that of a Thai for the same job.

Sorry - I made a typo - 'will' should be changed to 'may'.

In the case of teachers, the requirement for a degree, professional licencing etc is a requirement of the professional body for teachers, not a requirement by immigration. That body can also issue short-term waivers for teachers (Thai and non-Thai) who do not yet have a degree.

A school can choose to ignore the requirements of the professional body, but it would be hard to get away with this over a long period, unless you work in Nakon Nowhere.

Other employment sectors also impose additional requirements, over and above what immigration imposes. For example (AFAIK), doctors are required to pass a written exam in Thai language. That explains why you see very few foreign doctors practicing in Thailand.

In fact, for employment in many other sectors that are open to non-Thais, the professional body overseeing that sector can impose additional qualification requirements for their members, to be applied to both Thai and foreigners.

Want to be the manager of a restaurant or hotel? No WP unless you have a degree in hospitality, (that would 'screw' me since my MSc in space technology is a 'universe' away from hotel management).

So don't assume that meeting the visa requirements to work in Thailand automatically entitles you to a WP in your chosen profession - there are many ways to discriminate against foreign employment without changing the immigration rules or law.

The easiest way to severely limit foreign employment in favour of Thais? Require the member of that employment sector to pass a written test in Thai.

Don't assume that it won't happen.....

Edited July 3, 2014 by simon43

[BlueEasySleep]

Desirable long term guests in any country should be:

1. Those who have expertise in business/science/etc and can fill positions of professional need. This would include English teachers.

2. Those who have money and want to spend it, regardless of their age. This would include those who spend money on education.

agree but i fail to see your point?

1 is welcome but must apply for work permit

2 is welcome but must apply for ED visa

2 is not welcome unless they are 50.

[garydubbs]

Desirable long term guests in any country should be:

1. Those who have expertise in business/science/etc and can fill positions of professional need. This would include English teachers.

2. Those who have money and want to spend it, regardless of their age. This would include those who spend money on education.

agree but i fail to see your point?

1 is welcome but must apply for work permit

2 is welcome but must apply for ED visa

2 is not welcome unless they are 50.

sorry, 2a is welcome and can spend some of their money on a thai elite card, 2b can spend money on education by applying for an ED visa and appropriate school/university

life gets a lot easier when we conform to the rules rather than trying to make the rules conform to us

[JDGRUEN]

It wasn't that long ago that the retirement rule was reduced from i think 60yrs of age

to 50yrs, so in actual fact it's been made easier to retire in Thailand.

Why 50yrs old, well, they have to draw the line somewhere, and it's unlikely that under 50's

will be wanting to retire anyway, it's just common sense.

As for your other questions, on working illegally, well this is what they want to stop, by

enforcing the rules to make everyone get the correct visas and work permits and then

pay income tax too.

Can't anybody retire if they have enough money to support themselves? Why do you need to be a certain age?

You need to have a university degree to get a work permit, and many teachers don't have that. So it's not going to make everyone pay more tax, it's going to force a lot of teachers to leave. Thus leaving many schools with no foreign english teachers. What is the major benefit for the country in that?

Why does the USA, UK, Australia etc. make it so difficult to get a visa. Hell I can be in the USA and decide I want to go to Thailand tomorrow and buy a ticket and leave. A Thai cant decide I want to go to the USA tomorrow and buy a ticket and leave. They have to apply for a visa that takes months to just get an interview and then hope and pray they get one. For the most part Thailand has easy visa requirements.

Aside from the answers you have already received on your question... here is my opinion based upon readings of the past 10-15 years... The U.S. State Department is littered with people who firmly believe that any single woman from Asia and/or from one of the former states of the Soviet Union and from other places - want to come to the U.S.A for the sole purpose of finding a husband and that the American husband will mistreat her - abuse her. You think I am kidding - but I am not. The rule makers have their feminist mindset and must defend women worldwide from the ravages of knuckle dragging American men...

[jacko45k]

They could make the same bank requirements for under 50s as they do for over 50s. I don't see that as making any sense.

They have decided that they will welcome retirees who have enough pension income or savings to live here, as a retiree.

It is perhaps hard for them to grasp that there may be under 50's who are already financially sound and no longer wish to work.

At what age do you think a retirement visa / (dosser visa ) should be obtainable? 49, 39, 29, 19 or 9?

As I said before, it should be available to anyone with enough money to support themselves without working.

Sent from my GT-I8552B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, I think Thailand needs to investigate such people, having money is not sufficient.

Particularly where their money is coming from.

Perhaps the Thai people should also be able to specify it themselves too... it is what it is.

[GoonDizzy]

I'm starting to get the hint. I have no issue with stopping border jumpers/deadbeats giving all foreigners a bad name. I just think this hasn't been thought through properly. Or perhaps it has and they just want all of us gone. Example? Let's say you jumped through all of the hoops and get yourself a BA in Education/PGCE/M.Ed (coming next surely). You breathe a sigh of relief. You're good for as long as you like, surely? However, your new boss is an <deleted>. Or the school closes. Whatever. You get a new job offer at another school.

I'm not 100% sure, but it seems the only option of a border run (to cancel visa/work permit in order to get a new one when you re-enter) may be out of the question. Anyone that has taught and changed jobs has had to do this. It is 'technically' possible to change schools without leaving on a WP, but almost impossible in reality. Perhaps I'm wrong and they would allow a visa run if you hadn't done one for years? However, going into Cambodia/Laos or wherever for half an hour may see you refused entry. And Thailand would lose a good teacher. If that were to be the case, they don't deserve them.

Thailand could easily fix this by allowing a transfer of employer on a work permit. There are reasons they won't do this even for those well qualified. They want you to try it out for a few years at the same school and bugger off.

Are Thailand just telling us all to go away without actually saying it, which is typically Thai? To those sneering in a bucket of smugness...you could be next.

[garydubbs]

I'm starting to get the hint. I have no issue with stopping border jumpers/deadbeats giving all foreigners a bad name. I just think this hasn't been thought through properly. Or perhaps it has and they just want all of us gone. Example? Let's say you jumped through all of the hoops and get yourself a BA in Education/PGCE/M.Ed (coming next surely). You breathe a sigh of relief. You're good for as long as you like, surely? However, your new boss is an <deleted>. Or the school closes. Whatever. You get a new job offer at another school.

I'm not 100% sure, but it seems the only option of a border run (to cancel visa/work permit in order to get a new one when you re-enter) may be out of the question. Anyone that has taught and changed jobs has had to do this. It is 'technically' possible to change schools without leaving on a WP, but almost impossible in reality. Perhaps I'm wrong and they would allow a visa run if you hadn't done one for years? However, going into Cambodia/Laos or wherever for half an hour may see you refused entry. And Thailand would lose a good teacher. If that were to be the case, they don't deserve them.

Thailand could easily fix this by allowing a transfer of employer on a work permit. There are reasons they won't do this even for those well qualified. They want you to try it out for a few years at the same school and bugger off.

Are Thailand just telling us all to go away without actually saying it, which is typically Thai? To those sneering in a bucket of smugness...you could be next.

smugness aside in this situation why not travel a little further than the border (sometimes less than a few km!) and apply for a tourist visa. once new employment is sorted go back and get your non-immigrant B. a pain in the ass yes but a reason to go home..?

individuals will have to decide if the lifestyle is worth it

edit: i misread your post, if you already have new school just head for nearest border and get a new B visa, restart the process

Edited July 3, 2014 by garydubbs

[ubonjoe]

If person has been here on a non-b visa or extensions of stay they will be able to still get a a new exempt entry at a border crossing. There are not doing away with all visa exempt entries.

The "crackdown" is for border runners that are trying to stay here full time on exempt entries.

[GoonDizzy]

I'm starting to get the hint. I have no issue with stopping border jumpers/deadbeats giving all foreigners a bad name. I just think this hasn't been thought through properly. Or perhaps it has and they just want all of us gone. Example? Let's say you jumped through all of the hoops and get yourself a BA in Education/PGCE/M.Ed (coming next surely). You breathe a sigh of relief. You're good for as long as you like, surely? However, your new boss is an <deleted>. Or the school closes. Whatever. You get a new job offer at another school.

I'm not 100% sure, but it seems the only option of a border run (to cancel visa/work permit in order to get a new one when you re-enter) may be out of the question. Anyone that has taught and changed jobs has had to do this. It is 'technically' possible to change schools without leaving on a WP, but almost impossible in reality. Perhaps I'm wrong and they would allow a visa run if you hadn't done one for years? However, going into Cambodia/Laos or wherever for half an hour may see you refused entry. And Thailand would lose a good teacher. If that were to be the case, they don't deserve them.

Thailand could easily fix this by allowing a transfer of employer on a work permit. There are reasons they won't do this even for those well qualified. They want you to try it out for a few years at the same school and bugger off.

Are Thailand just telling us all to go away without actually saying it, which is typically Thai? To those sneering in a bucket of smugness...you could be next.

smugness aside in this situation why not travel a little further than the border (sometimes less than a few km!) and apply for a tourist visa. once new employment is sorted go back and get your non-immigrant B. a pain in the ass yes but a reason to go home..?

individuals will have to decide if the lifestyle is worth it

edit: i misread your post, if you already have new school just head for nearest border and get a new B visa, restart the process

You may be correct. Thing is, leaving Thailand for a few weeks and returning could be an issue. I wouldn't feel confident doing it at the moment. The situation was hypothetical by the way, but it is one I could realistically have in the future. If Thailand really wanted us here, they wouldn't make their teachers mess around with borders runs in order to do a much needed job. Not having a go at you btw, I agee with your points. Just ranting a bit. I've got a picture in my head of Ed Norton in American History X saying ''See that? It says ...NOT...WELCOME..''

[GoonDizzy]

If person has been here on a non-b visa or extensions of stay they will be able to still get a a new exempt entry at a border crossing. There are not doing away with all visa exempt entries.

The "crackdown" is for border runners that are trying to stay here full time on exempt entries.

Cheers Joe. I bow down to your superior knowledge. However, I have heard of problems with non B visa runs? Any truth in that?

[ubonjoe]

If person has been here on a non-b visa or extensions of stay they will be able to still get a a new exempt entry at a border crossing. There are not doing away with all visa exempt entries.

The "crackdown" is for border runners that are trying to stay here full time on exempt entries.

Cheers Joe. I bow down to your superior knowledge. However, I have heard of problems with non B visa runs? Any truth in that?

The only thing I have read was at one crossing from Malaysia when people were asked to show money.

If you have valid visa you will not have a problem entering the country.

[BlueEasySleep]

I'm starting to get the hint. I have no issue with stopping border jumpers/deadbeats giving all foreigners a bad name. I just think this hasn't been thought through properly. Or perhaps it has and they just want all of us gone. Example? Let's say you jumped through all of the hoops and get yourself a BA in Education/PGCE/M.Ed (coming next surely). You breathe a sigh of relief. You're good for as long as you like, surely? However, your new boss is an <deleted>. Or the school closes. Whatever. You get a new job offer at another school.

I'm not 100% sure, but it seems the only option of a border run (to cancel visa/work permit in order to get a new one when you re-enter) may be out of the question. Anyone that has taught and changed jobs has had to do this. It is 'technically' possible to change schools without leaving on a WP, but almost impossible in reality. Perhaps I'm wrong and they would allow a visa run if you hadn't done one for years? However, going into Cambodia/Laos or wherever for half an hour may see you refused entry. And Thailand would lose a good teacher. If that were to be the case, they don't deserve them.

Thailand could easily fix this by allowing a transfer of employer on a work permit. There are reasons they won't do this even for those well qualified. They want you to try it out for a few years at the same school and bugger off.

Are Thailand just telling us all to go away without actually saying it, which is typically Thai? To those sneering in a bucket of smugness...you could be next.

Yes this is my point.

If you try to re-enter Thailand on a tourist visa or visa exempt while having a previous non-B working visa in your passport, you're going to be accused at passport control of coming back to Thailand to work illegally.

If you were working a few days ago, why do you have a tourist visa now? You're not a tourist.

This may deny re-entry to people legitimately working who are changing jobs but whose new job hasn't had enough time to sort out their paperwork yet. Or people who want to quit a job and interview to find a new one. Or maybe your visa ends April 2 but you can't get a new non-B until your new school opens in mid May.

Over the next year there may be 200,000 english teachers streaming across the border into cambodia carrying satchels filled with dry erase markers.

[BlueEasySleep]

If person has been here on a non-b visa or extensions of stay they will be able to still get a a new exempt entry at a border crossing. There are not doing away with all visa exempt entries.

The "crackdown" is for border runners that are trying to stay here full time on exempt entries.

Cheers Joe. I bow down to your superior knowledge. However, I have heard of problems with non B visa runs? Any truth in that?

The only thing I have read was at one crossing from Malaysia when people were asked to show money.

If you have valid visa you will not have a problem entering the country.

3rd time I'm saying this:

I re-entered the country recently with a valid ED visa from a government university and had a problem.

He accused me of working and demanded I show my university ID card. Then passed me on to a supervisor for greater scrutiny.

[ubonjoe]

3rd time I'm saying this:

I re-entered the country recently with a valid ED visa from a government university and had a problem.

He accused me of working and demanded I show my university ID card. Then passed me on to a supervisor for greater scrutiny.

Did you have a new single entry non-ed visa you had just gotten at an embassy or consulate?

Or did you have a multiple entry non-ed visa?

Or did you have an extension of stay from immigration?

There have been reports in the past of people being questioned when they had a multiple entry ED visa.

[BlueEasySleep]

3rd time I'm saying this:

I re-entered the country recently with a valid ED visa from a government university and had a problem.

He accused me of working and demanded I show my university ID card. Then passed me on to a supervisor for greater scrutiny.

Did you have a new single entry non-ed visa you had just gotten at an embassy or consulate?

Or did you have a multiple entry non-ed visa?

Or did you have an extension of stay from immigration?

There have been reports in the past of people being questioned when they had a multiple entry ED visa.

Single one year entry. Re-entry stamp. I was flying back after being in Europe for 3 weeks.

[ubonjoe]

3rd time I'm saying this:

I re-entered the country recently with a valid ED visa from a government university and had a problem.

He accused me of working and demanded I show my university ID card. Then passed me on to a supervisor for greater scrutiny.

Did you have a new single entry non-ed visa you had just gotten at an embassy or consulate?

Or did you have a multiple entry non-ed visa?

Or did you have an extension of stay from immigration?

There have been reports in the past of people being questioned when they had a multiple entry ED visa.

Single one year entry. Re-entry stamp. I was flying back after being in Europe for 3 weeks.

So you had an extension of stay (it is not a visa) with a re-entry permit.

You must of gotten an officer that was having a bad day. It is unusual for them to pull people aside that are on extensions.

But they did allow you to enter after you talked to a supervisor. I guess the advice would be have your ID card with you next time.

[BlueEasySleep]

I've paid more to my school than the elite card costs. You'd think I could get in the country without hassle.

[BlackJack]

Was hoping for a higher level of discussion.

Just trying to understand thai thinking and the rules.

Sent from my GT-I8552B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

its only when you do it that you will understand

[MrWorldwide]

Filed my application for the first 90-day extension at Jomtien this morning and she told me to come back at 3pm to pick up my passport. I'm currently stateless - a red square with a number on it and nothing else - but anyone who can honestly fill in 6 hours walking around Jomtien without once entering a bar is a better man than I. Even back in my apartment off Pattaya Klang I'm somewhat over it, but compared to the Vientiane visa run this is a piece of cake.

I'm going to post in more detail about my experience this morning if I get the extension - if not, I'll post re my new home in Cambodia

[hawker9000]

It wasn't that long ago that the retirement rule was reduced from i think 60yrs of age

to 50yrs, so in actual fact it's been made easier to retire in Thailand.

Why 50yrs old, well, they have to draw the line somewhere, and it's unlikely that under 50's

will be wanting to retire anyway, it's just common sense.

As for your other questions, on working illegally, well this is what they want to stop, by

enforcing the rules to make everyone get the correct visas and work permits and then

pay income tax too.

Can't anybody retire if they have enough money to support themselves? Why do you need to be a certain age?

You need to have a university degree to get a work permit, and many teachers don't have that. So it's not going to make everyone pay more tax, it's going to force a lot of teachers to leave. Thus leaving many schools with no foreign english teachers. What is the major benefit for the country in that?

Why does the USA, UK, Australia etc. make it so difficult to get a visa. Hell I can be in the USA and decide I want to go to Thailand tomorrow and buy a ticket and leave. A Thai cant decide I want to go to the USA tomorrow and buy a ticket and leave. They have to apply for a visa that takes months to just get an interview and then hope and pray they get one. For the most part Thailand has easy visa requirements.

So why not go find www.usavisa.com and post this there? What's it got to do with visas in Thailand?

[paz]

3rd time I'm saying this:

I re-entered the country recently with a valid ED visa from a government university and had a problem.

He accused me of working and demanded I show my university ID card. Then passed me on to a supervisor for greater scrutiny.

Actually you did not said what the problem was about. That is can happen to anyone (except those having a working visa and permit). I have got asked once on the occasion of traffic infraction. Maybe they think you say will yes and they make a nice catch. Politely stick to your guns and that will be it.

[paz]

I've paid more to my school than the elite card costs. You'd think I could get in the country without hassle.

Really? 1 yr school for ED visa can be less than 25K Bt. Elite card start 500K for 5 Yrs, that is 4 times more expensive.

[BlueEasySleep]

I've paid more to my school than the elite card costs. You'd think I could get in the country without hassle.

Really? 1 yr school for ED visa can be less than 25K Bt. Elite card start 500K for 5 Yrs, that is 4 times more expensive.

I'm getting a degree.

[paz]

I'm getting a degree.

Good, you should be happy about the big savings you're making compared to higher education in a western country.

[BlueEasySleep]

I'm getting a degree.

Good, you should be happy about the big savings you're making compared to higher education in a western country.

I am. But unhappy about the lower quality of education.

[GoonDizzy]

If person has been here on a non-b visa or extensions of stay they will be able to still get a a new exempt entry at a border crossing. There are not doing away with all visa exempt entries.

The "crackdown" is for border runners that are trying to stay here full time on exempt entries.

Cheers Joe. I bow down to your superior knowledge. However, I have heard of problems with non B visa runs? Any truth in that?

The only thing I have read was at one crossing from Malaysia when people were asked to show money.

If you have valid visa you will not have a problem entering the country.

3rd time I'm saying this:

I re-entered the country recently with a valid ED visa from a government university and had a problem.

He accused me of working and demanded I show my university ID card. Then passed me on to a supervisor for greater scrutiny.

Seems a surprise to be targetting those doing a degree or masters. If that becomes a common theme, people can't keep burying their heads in the sand.

Not all, but many will be studying to meet the MOE requirements and work legitimately in Thailand at a later date. To get on their backs seems harsh, but it is what it is. First we had degrees (apart from an Education degree) not being applicalble for Work Permits when waivers end. Many weren't aware of this as they didn't look on sites like this or their school/Moe/Imm never told them. Next, the Visa run crackdown. An Ed Visa crackdown seems to be gathering pace. So what's next?

Perhaps marriage visas? Retirement visas? I'm talking about the amount of cash you have in those instances. It seems as though they're going for a new 'target' every few months at the moment.

Maybe this will blow over. I'm certainly not planning anything long term in Thailand from here on in. Just a feeling a I have.