Thai rice scandal: More rice missing from storage

[Local Drunk]

If some seriously highly positioned government officials don't go to prison this, it will all be a worthless time wasting effort.

No greng jai on this one.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Local Drunk

[Robby nz]

Maybe you don't understand what plernwhale meant. He meant that they were missing rice stock found in Nakorn Si Thammarat, province of the Dem stronghole and home to Suthep. Think he is right to say that missing rice and could be crime in all red and yellow territories.

Was it not an investigaton of ex. government rice storages.

Yes, agreed "missing rice ...could be crime in all red and yellow territories" . Stock checks apparently are of government storage depots only. Can't see how you can imagine that Suthep can be involved in rice missing, apart from your obvious red leanings.

The vast majority of the rice is in privately owned warehouses that are contracted to the government, in several stories on this topic the companies that own the warehouses are named (see BKK post now).

Most every country in the world keeps a store or its principal grain to see it through in case of an emergence, this is usually about equal to a years supply, this is a revolving stock and is only kept for a few years before replacement so there is always fresh grain should it be needed.

This is usually kept in purpose built silos that keeps it in optimum conditions, this is the case in Thailand.

As the silos were already stocked with the normal rice stocks the rice pledged under the scheme had to be stored in warehouses that were never intended for long term storage of perishable produce, therefore the pledged rice is not stored under optimum conditions.

We see in some reports that silos are being inspected as well as warehouses and if I remember correctly one silo is said to be under suspicion for being stocked with the wrong grade of rice.

There were stories of Govt money being given to private companies (individuals) to build new warehouses to hold the increasing stocks, another thing that will no doubt be part of the eventual investigations.

Remember at one time they were looking at a warehouse at Don Muang airport as an option for a store.

[p_brownstone]

I had a delivery boy come in (empty handed) several months ago and hand my cashier a bill for goods. She paid him and I clearly heard him say in thai "The farang hasn,t a clue what we are up to" ! A very common scam in this country, and isn,t it strange that a certain family,s wealth increased by 300-400%

And what exactly did you do?

Is the Cashier still working for you?

Patrick

Edit to add;

Actually, sure that's BS - if you could understand your Cashier when she spoke Thai to the Messenger then it's fairly obvious she would know that you could understand what she was saying to the Messenger.

Patrick

P.S. to add

You heard this ....... and still let your Cashier pay?!

B.S. x 2

Patrick

Edited July 7, 2014 by p_brownstone

[Thai at Heart]

Maybe you don't understand what plernwhale meant. He meant that they were missing rice stock found in Nakorn Si Thammarat, province of the Dem stronghole and home to Suthep. Think he is right to say that missing rice and could be crime in all red and yellow territories.

Was it not an investigaton of ex. government rice storages.

Yes, agreed "missing rice ...could be crime in all red and yellow territories" . Stock checks apparently are of government storage depots only. Can't see how you can imagine that Suthep can be involved in rice missing, apart from your obvious red leanings.

The vast majority of the rice is in privately owned warehouses that are contracted to the government, in several stories on this topic the companies that own the warehouses are named (see BKK post now).

Most every country in the world keeps a store or its principal grain to see it through in case of an emergence, this is usually about equal to a years supply, this is a revolving stock and is only kept for a few years before replacement so there is always fresh grain should it be needed.

This is usually kept in purpose built silos that keeps it in optimum conditions, this is the case in Thailand.

As the silos were already stocked with the normal rice stocks the rice pledged under the scheme had to be stored in warehouses that were never intended for long term storage of perishable produce, therefore the pledged rice is not stored under optimum conditions.

We see in some reports that silos are being inspected as well as warehouses and if I remember correctly one silo is said to be under suspicion for being stocked with the wrong grade of rice.

There were stories of Govt money being given to private companies (individuals) to build new warehouses to hold the increasing stocks, another thing that will no doubt be part of the eventual investigations.

Remember at one time they were looking at a warehouse at Don Muang airport as an option for a store.

I am a little curious how they can be sure that they qualities have been degraded. I would imagine the crop years would be quite simple because the product degrades over time, but to be absolutely sure that a product has been substituied with lower quality can't be very simple once the product is ove a year old.

[rametindallas]

If I was a rice farmer getting screwed like these farmers were and I had farm loans and I needed to finance next seasons crop, I would have taken as much of what was technically still my rice from any warehouse I could find.

Why is it assumed farmers did not take some of the missing rice stockpiles?

Who could blame them?

And before the accusations fly--I am apolitical and I fully believe much of the rice was fraudulently taken by individuals with no right to it.

Cheers

Why is it assumed farmers did not take some of the missing rice stockpiles?

Because, it the farmer took his rice back, and there was not procedure in place to do that, it would be theft and the warehouse manager or owner or rice mill owner would have reported the theft to the police. The newspapers would have made a big story out of it. Face it. The whole scheme was corrupt in its inception and designed to rape the taxpayer. Please don't try to shift any of the blame to the farmer.

I don't think ClutchClark is trying to shift the blame only pointing out how they would feel in the same position. I don't know if it would be possible to steal the rice back or if it would be theft if they hadn't been paid for it but once the warehouse owners were getting paid the money they may not have been too worried about a bit of rice going missing. It doesn't look as if they expected too close a scrutiny over their rice stocks so I doubt security was too hot.

I agree the farmers are the victims but you can't assume that everyone of them is honest or that all millers or warehouse owners are dishonest. I remember seeing a news item about some farmers boasting how they defrauded the Dems scheme.

If there was any possibility of any farmers having gotten their rice back, the warehouse, rice millers would be pointing the finger, even now, and claiming it was the farmer's fault for the shortfalls the inspectors are now finding. It is ludicrous to think that rich, hi-so rice millers would let lo-so farmers take anything without an accounting, as, though they didn't expect to be scrutinized, they did take measures, e.g. leaving the middle of the pile empty, falsely labeling the grade, and mis-stacking the rice sacks, in case they were given a cursory inspection. It makes no sense for the warehouse/rice millers to let the farmers participate in their level of the scheme as the rice farmers were already benefiting by being paid 40% to 50% above market share for their (sometimes inferior) rice; that would be double-dipping by the farmers.

The scenario that ClutchClark suggested is not reasoned but it does divert from the criminality of the warehouse owners/managers and the rice millers. From reading his posts, I suspect that ClutchClark is a sneaky, Thaksin apologist.

Edited July 7, 2014 by rametindallas

[Robby nz]

Yes, agreed "missing rice ...could be crime in all red and yellow territories" . Stock checks apparently are of government storage depots only. Can't see how you can imagine that Suthep can be involved in rice missing, apart from your obvious red leanings.

Was it not an investigaton of ex. government rice storages.

The vast majority of the rice is in privately owned warehouses that are contracted to the government, in several stories on this topic the companies that own the warehouses are named (see BKK post now).

Most every country in the world keeps a store or its principal grain to see it through in case of an emergence, this is usually about equal to a years supply, this is a revolving stock and is only kept for a few years before replacement so there is always fresh grain should it be needed.

This is usually kept in purpose built silos that keeps it in optimum conditions, this is the case in Thailand.

As the silos were already stocked with the normal rice stocks the rice pledged under the scheme had to be stored in warehouses that were never intended for long term storage of perishable produce, therefore the pledged rice is not stored under optimum conditions.

We see in some reports that silos are being inspected as well as warehouses and if I remember correctly one silo is said to be under suspicion for being stocked with the wrong grade of rice.

There were stories of Govt money being given to private companies (individuals) to build new warehouses to hold the increasing stocks, another thing that will no doubt be part of the eventual investigations.

Remember at one time they were looking at a warehouse at Don Muang airport as an option for a store.

I am a little curious how they can be sure that they qualities have been degraded. I would imagine the crop years would be quite simple because the product degrades over time, but to be absolutely sure that a product has been substituied with lower quality can't be very simple once the product is ove a year old.

I would imagine that in their inspection teams they have included experts in the identification of grades and quality of rice.

I remember reading that they have been sending samples of anything doubtful away for testing.

I think what they are saying is that the substitution is in the grades of rice rather than quality, although lower grade would also mean lower quality.

For instance in the BKK post it was said that in the middle of a pile of 100% white rice they found sacks of 5% white rice and that some had been mixed with sticky rice.

Mrs has just showed me a photo on facebook of one of the inspection teams in Phatuhm Thani having taken the top layer of sacks off a stack and found a ply floor held up with scaffold.

Seems that round the outside and on top were sacks of rice and in the middle nothing.

If this is true we should be hearing about it in the news tomorrow or the next day.

That's the photo, from Thairath.co.th.

[Robert24]

well the truth is slowly surfacing. I guess more news to come on this. And we know who the warehouse owners and powerful figures were in this scheme.

I suspect that a lot of the 19 million tonne of rice that the previous government valued at 15000 baht/tonne will be lost

a) because it is a lot less than 19 million because some of the rice disappeared or never arrived that are in the books right now

quality of the rice is bad and so even if some of it can still be sold, they price will be very low

c) some of the bags will be filled with rice husk instead of rice

it will be interesting how the government will account/budget for that loss given the high valuation in the books.

[Thai at Heart]

Yes, agreed "missing rice ...could be crime in all red and yellow territories" . Stock checks apparently are of government storage depots only. Can't see how you can imagine that Suthep can be involved in rice missing, apart from your obvious red leanings.

Was it not an investigaton of ex. government rice storages.

The vast majority of the rice is in privately owned warehouses that are contracted to the government, in several stories on this topic the companies that own the warehouses are named (see BKK post now).

Most every country in the world keeps a store or its principal grain to see it through in case of an emergence, this is usually about equal to a years supply, this is a revolving stock and is only kept for a few years before replacement so there is always fresh grain should it be needed.

This is usually kept in purpose built silos that keeps it in optimum conditions, this is the case in Thailand.

As the silos were already stocked with the normal rice stocks the rice pledged under the scheme had to be stored in warehouses that were never intended for long term storage of perishable produce, therefore the pledged rice is not stored under optimum conditions.

We see in some reports that silos are being inspected as well as warehouses and if I remember correctly one silo is said to be under suspicion for being stocked with the wrong grade of rice.

There were stories of Govt money being given to private companies (individuals) to build new warehouses to hold the increasing stocks, another thing that will no doubt be part of the eventual investigations.

Remember at one time they were looking at a warehouse at Don Muang airport as an option for a store.

I am a little curious how they can be sure that they qualities have been degraded. I would imagine the crop years would be quite simple because the product degrades over time, but to be absolutely sure that a product has been substituied with lower quality can't be very simple once the product is ove a year old.

I would imagine that in their inspection teams they have included experts in the identification of grades and quality of rice.

I remember reading that they have been sending samples of anything doubtful away for testing.

I think what they are saying is that the substitution is in the grades of rice rather than quality, although lower grade would also mean lower quality.

For instance in the BKK post it was said that in the middle of a pile of 100% white rice they found sacks of 5% white rice and that some had been mixed with sticky rice.

Mrs has just showed me a photo on facebook of one of the inspection teams in Phatuhm Thani having taken the top layer of sacks off a stack and found a ply floor held up with scaffold.

Seems that round the outside and on top were sacks of rice and in the middle nothing.

If this is true we should be hearing about it in the news tomorrow or the next day.

That's the photo, from Thairath.co.th.

Rice.jpg

Grades are qualities. I suppose one year old 5% looks very different from one year old 10% or broken.

I guess experts can tell

[animatic]

"After finding 90,000 sacks of missing rice at [Pathum Thani] granaries, I have ordered officials to investigate more thoroughly into reasons for the missing rice today," said Deputy National Police Chief Pol General Ake Angsananont.

So they found missing rice?

Seems odd to me.

Not if the writer's english skills were so bad he intended to say:

"... After finding 90,000 sacks of rice missing at [Pathum Thani]... "

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited July 7, 2014 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

Yes, agreed "missing rice ...could be crime in all red and yellow territories" . Stock checks apparently are of government storage depots only. Can't see how you can imagine that Suthep can be involved in rice missing, apart from your obvious red leanings.

Was it not an investigaton of ex. government rice storages.

The vast majority of the rice is in privately owned warehouses that are contracted to the government, in several stories on this topic the companies that own the warehouses are named (see BKK post now).

Most every country in the world keeps a store or its principal grain to see it through in case of an emergence, this is usually about equal to a years supply, this is a revolving stock and is only kept for a few years before replacement so there is always fresh grain should it be needed.

This is usually kept in purpose built silos that keeps it in optimum conditions, this is the case in Thailand.

As the silos were already stocked with the normal rice stocks the rice pledged under the scheme had to be stored in warehouses that were never intended for long term storage of perishable produce, therefore the pledged rice is not stored under optimum conditions.

We see in some reports that silos are being inspected as well as warehouses and if I remember correctly one silo is said to be under suspicion for being stocked with the wrong grade of rice.

There were stories of Govt money being given to private companies (individuals) to build new warehouses to hold the increasing stocks, another thing that will no doubt be part of the eventual investigations.

Remember at one time they were looking at a warehouse at Don Muang airport as an option for a store.

I am a little curious how they can be sure that they qualities have been degraded. I would imagine the crop years would be quite simple because the product degrades over time, but to be absolutely sure that a product has been substituied with lower quality can't be very simple once the product is ove a year old.

I would imagine that in their inspection teams they have included experts in the identification of grades and quality of rice.

I remember reading that they have been sending samples of anything doubtful away for testing.

I think what they are saying is that the substitution is in the grades of rice rather than quality, although lower grade would also mean lower quality.

For instance in the BKK post it was said that in the middle of a pile of 100% white rice they found sacks of 5% white rice and that some had been mixed with sticky rice.

Mrs has just showed me a photo on facebook of one of the inspection teams in Phatuhm Thani having taken the top layer of sacks off a stack and found a ply floor held up with scaffold.

Seems that round the outside and on top were sacks of rice and in the middle nothing.

If this is true we should be hearing about it in the news tomorrow or the next day.

That's the photo, from Thairath.co.th.

Rice.jpg

Funny this. That is the most professional bit of scaffolding I have ever seen in Thailand

[dru2]

So cronies of Mr. T got paid without producing / selling rice in order to scam Government, sounds great! New method of corruption

Where is your proof that Taksin had anything to do with this scam it could easily have been Suthep and his thugs.Stop blaming the reds.

This must be the joke of the year!

Maybe you don't understand what plernwhale meant. He meant that they were missing rice stock found in Nakorn Si Thammarat, province of the Dem stronghole and home to Suthep. Think he is right to say that missing rice and could be crime in all red and yellow territories.

Maybe you don't understand, Eric. Natthawut is a Nakhon Si Thammarat native, and his best buddy Jatuporn moved there from Surat Thani when he was 8 years old. Suthep has never been associated with Nakhon Si Thammarat - rather Surat Thani. Oh, and palm oil, shrimps, land - not rice. Do try harder if you want to be deemed more credible than the foolish plernwhale.

Edited July 7, 2014 by dru2

[Baerboxer]

Maybe you don't understand what plernwhale meant. He meant that they were missing rice stock found in Nakorn Si Thammarat, province of the Dem stronghole and home to Suthep. Think he is right to say that missing rice and could be crime in all red and yellow territories.

Suthep is from Surat Thani, not Nakhon Si Thammarat.

Nattawut Saikua, on the other hand.....

Would that be the Nattawut of Nattawut transport the company that was reported to be carting truck loads of rice around to unspecified destinations ?

Or the Nattawut who threatened to turn BKK into a sea of flame and would take full responsibility, then was given a cabinet position with the commerce ministry which was in charge of the rice pledging scheme ?

Or are both the same person ?

One and the same - not to forget the same commerce ministry that asserted there was positively and absolutely no rice missing (as Bill Clinton would say " read my lips!); and responsible for all those wonderful lucrative G2G deals that had to be kept top secret at the buyer's insistence.

[ClutchClark]

If I was a rice farmer getting screwed like these farmers were and I had farm loans and I needed to finance next seasons crop, I would have taken as much of what was technically still my rice from any warehouse I could find.

Why is it assumed farmers did not take some of the missing rice stockpiles?

Who could blame them?

And before the accusations fly--I am apolitical and I fully believe much of the rice was fraudulently taken by individuals with no right to it.

Cheers

If the farmers had done that what do you think they were going to do with it ?

They have no way to either store or sell tons of rice, just not possible.

And how were they going to identify their rice after it had been milled and stored with everyone elses in a warehouse ?

Robby, I am not saying they took back their own rice. I don't know what means they had to sell it.

All I was saying is I have read rice is missing. I have read people blaming different parties...rightfully so.

I only wondered if farmers might have taken some of it--because in their shoes, I would have. Because in their shoes, I would have dine whatever is necessary to keep up my farm payments and been ready to plant this seasons crop.

Thats all.

In my opinion, in most of the "cases" of missing rice - it was never delivered, just receipted as delivered so "someone" could claim payment at a later stage from the good old PTP scam system - nudge, nudge - wink wink.

Hence the need for PTP wanting to borrow 2 trillion bht for a suspect rail project - a lot of the money was needed to cover the rice scam and could have been easily syphoned off.

Thanks.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory baiting post has been removed as well as a reply.

[Robby nz]

Maybe you don't understand what plernwhale meant. He meant that they were missing rice stock found in Nakorn Si Thammarat, province of the Dem stronghole and home to Suthep. Think he is right to say that missing rice and could be crime in all red and yellow territories.

Suthep is from Surat Thani, not Nakhon Si Thammarat.

Nattawut Saikua, on the other hand.....

Would that be the Nattawut of Nattawut transport the company that was reported to be carting truck loads of rice around to unspecified destinations ?

Or the Nattawut who threatened to turn BKK into a sea of flame and would take full responsibility, then was given a cabinet position with the commerce ministry which was in charge of the rice pledging scheme ?

Or are both the same person ?

One and the same - not to forget the same commerce ministry that asserted there was positively and absolutely no rice missing (as Bill Clinton would say " read my lips!); and responsible for all those wonderful lucrative G2G deals that had to be kept top secret at the buyer's insistence.

A question must therefor be asked as to how a company belonging to a cabinet member of the commerce ministry could be involved in the transportation of rice within a scheme under the auspices of said miistry.

Surely this must be some sort of conflict of interest for even if there was a contract put up for tender a cabinet member would have inside information which would give them an unfair advantage over others.

Come in NACC.

Or should that be the PSACC the Public Sector Anti-Corruption Commission.

Yes there is such a thing and in the 2012 National anti corruption commission transparency index of Govt departments it came in bottom with a score of only 27.6 out of a 100.

That's right, in 2012 the Public Sector Anti-Corruption Commission was considered to be the most corrupt government entity.

However it is now under new management, go to BKK Post and search for Public Sector Anti-Corruption Commission and look at a story : Graftbuster Prayong empties the rubbish.

Hopefully Khun Prayong can a lot closer to 100 than the previous boss.

Edit to remove link, sorry mods didn't realize it was a link.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Robby nz

[Bernard Flint]

Not read all posts, as i am sick to death of know alls here.

How simple can it be, without pages of red/ yellow/Suthep/Thaksin crap, and plenty of pontificating by so called clever members

Who ever is responsible should be jailed, as agreed by the laws of Thailand, 20 years/ 5 years, the laws of Thailand not what some bm thinks it should be..

[pitrevie]

I think it would be far easier to ask the question is there any of the rice left that the Thai government actually paid for or has it all gone.

[siampolee]

pitrevie post # 107

I think it would be far easier to ask the question is there any of the rice left that the Thai government actually paid for or has it all gone

Perhaps we should ask.the question, is there any poitician left in Thailand who was paid for the rice the government supposedly purchased or have all those politicians gone ?