Health Insurance for Foreigners in Chiang Mai

[Mapguy]

The following post was found today: http://www.chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=4211

It is particularly relevant to Chiang Mai because of the concentration of elderly foreigners in Chiang Mai and the very determined (but disappointing) effort by NancyL and others to work with city and provincial health officials to establish a way for Western foreigners (in particular) to get what is commonly called "30 bhat" health care coverage.

As anyone who has any actuarial or practical sense (which was posted more than once on this topic previously in Chiang Mai TV), the plan as presented in 2013 made no sense at all. Health officials became alarmed, especially at Nakorn Ping Hospital, which was the general Chiang Mai municipal hospital regionally to accpt such patients. Alarmed, the program (adopted within Chiang Mai Province but not univerally in Thailand) was dumped. Its application in the areas was extraordinarily generous if misguided. Most likely it was simply misinterpreted. Refunds were made available locally in the Chinag Mai area to those who signed up with nominal reductions for some application tests and, maybe, some care given.

The initial reasons for possible projection of the initial national plan provincially were apparently a misinterpretation of the substantive intent of the initial government policy, which had nothing to do with covering the expenses of retired elderly farang in the Chiang Mai area from Western countries, as well as some rich Asian countries, but which had to do with immigrant workers from adjacent countries.

Local hospitals in Chiang Mai Province did generally open their doors and were hospitable (as posted often previously in Chinag Mai TV) but shocked by an apparent flood of foreigners who have very serious neglected medical problems and expected treatment at 30 bhat a visit! Obviously, there was entirely too much of a good thing!

Now --- look more broadly --- and consider including short-term tourists in the mix of those covered. That produces a much different pool actuarially, young and frisky as well as older sorts. SO, then, for nominal fees all round, a reasonable program of health care might work out just fine, BUT

Thailand must tighten up its immigration laws considerably or it will be flooded by indigent or near-indigent foreigners, especially the elderly looking for a cheap place to retire from health care-expensive countries. That would really overwhelm Thai health care capacity and, perhaps, reduce the very needed and necessary focus of people who are not refugees from some more-developed economy with much greater resources (Gasp! The "nanny countries.")

[uptheos]

Looking at the consistent times you post, I'm beginning to wonder if it's after the bars close in Chiang Mai, or after getting home from work between 5-30 - 6pm in the UK?

I won't mention how bitter you always sound about elderly people living a great life, cheaply......borders on pathological jealousy.

BTW I'm on my last week of a six week visit to Europe (in case you're wondering about the time of this post).

[Thighlander]

A big part of the Obama "plan" was for the young a healthy to foot the bill for the elderly. The young people didn't fall for it. It's been a complete boondoggle.

Romney wanted to give those over 65 about 7-800 usd per month to opt out of Medicare (which cost the taxpayers quite a bit more than that), and provide for their own care...in Thailand perhaps? The sheeple fell for the "shovel ready jobs" bait, and as a result have their 30something year old kids living with them full time. I noticed the EU countries require people to have 30K Euro in coverage to obtain a visa.....makes sense to me.....A lot of the senior citizens are making a mockery of the financial requirements...it's 65000 per month; not 6500. Clampdown part VI, coming soon to an immigration office near you.

[Dante99]

The news article describes the insurance to be for "foreign visitors", thus it may not be applicable (likely not) to people on annual extensions who are more like residents than visitors. It is further described as "Travel Insurance" which indicates short term. Also the quoted price would be doubtful for an annual policy.

Thus it is doubtful that this new policy will help many of those in need in Chiang Mai. Possible but doubtful.

It may be advisable to close this until details are available to determine its applicability rather than just have another thread based on speculation/wild assed guessing, particularly since the OP is mostly just rehashing history in his largely troll topic.

[amexpat]

Thanks, Thailander. It's sometimes amusing to see what kind of malarky fox news is spewing without having to watch it myself.

[NancyL]

Mapguy -- could you please go on-line, maybe with a IPN if you're in Thailand so TAT thinks you're actually overseas, and research the fine print of that TAT travel insurance policy. If you read the article it seems that it will be available for tourists to buy online or from overseas branches of TAT. I doubt we can get much info from the TAT here in Chiang Mai. It would appear that the program is being offered to counter tourist cancellations because they can't purchase travel insurance because of the current marshal law.

Thighlander -- we can always count on you to try to insert your favorite topics into a thread, no matter how irrelevant or misinformed you are. I knew the Affordable Health Care Act was going to come up in this thread. You never disappoint.

Edited July 10, 2014 by NancyL

[Thighlander]

Thanks, Thailander. It's sometimes amusing to see what kind of malarky fox news is spewing without having to watch it myself.

Perhaps, a look at the "Truth-O-Meter" from one of the most liberal newspapers in the World.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/16/barack-obama/does-paul-ryan-want-turn-medicare-voucher-program/

[NancyL]

Thanks, Thailander. It's sometimes amusing to see what kind of malarky fox news is spewing without having to watch it myself.

Perhaps, a look at the "Truth-O-Meter" from one of the most liberal newspapers in the World.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/16/barack-obama/does-paul-ryan-want-turn-medicare-voucher-program/

Thighlander -- that link does absolutely nothing to support the false assertions you made in post no. 3.

(I can't believe I'm getting sucked into responding to this thread which is just a rehash of two vaguely related topics that are favorites of Mapguy and Thighlander!)

[Mapguy]

NancyL is certainly right to point out that there has been concern expressed about travel insurance to Thailand. Some say it is a problem; some say it isn't. I don't know.

What has occurred to me is expanding the pool including short and long-term foreigners together. Unorthodox, perhaps , but it might work. But immigration rules would probably need to be rethought. Some countries have age restrictions on people hoping to resettle in their countries so that their national health insurance systems are not overloaded.

The Thai private hospitals and clinics profit from medical tourism, but those tourists have sufficient money or insurance coverage. The Thai government system doesn't profit, and there must be valid concern about overloading a public system that is still very much in the development stage.

Another aspect of the general problem is the failure of some national systems of rich countries to adequately support their citizens abroad. Great Britain and America come to mind.

[Mapguy]

Oh, my apologies, Uptheos, for being too sleepy to read the post over and correct some awful grammar. Have a good trip! Hope good weather has been following you around.

And my apologies for mistakenly using all capital letters in the topic title.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Mapguy

[quidnunc]

Thanks, Thailander. It's sometimes amusing to see what kind of malarky fox news is spewing without having to watch it myself.

Perhaps, a look at the "Truth-O-Meter" from one of the most liberal newspapers in the World.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/16/barack-obama/does-paul-ryan-want-turn-medicare-voucher-program/

THanks for the link. I went to it. Here's the final line: "For a political discussion aimed at voters rather than policy wonks, we think Obama’s use of the term "voucher" is close enough to earn it a rating of Mostly True."

Which means that Romney's and Ryan's denials were mostly false.

[CharlieH]

Inappropriate posts removed.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710100-pfm-chiang-mai-expats-and-alan-hall/?hl=%2Balan+%2Bhall

[amexpat]

How did post #3 pertain to this topic?

[uptheos]

Oh, my apologies, Uptheos, for being too sleepy to read the post over and correct some awful grammar. Have a good trip! Hope good weather has been following you around.

And my apologies for mistakenly using all capital letters in the topic title.

No problem Mapguy, I would expect nothing less from a struggling English teacher.

[NancyL]

How did post #3 pertain to this topic?

It didn't -- it was just Thighlander doing a rift on one of his favorite topics. He attempted a similar sidebar on another favorite topic, which CharlieH's warning as he deleted it clearly explains. It's a game Thighlander plays -- throw out any topic and he'll manage to work in the Affordable Care Act and the other topic which will soon be deleted.

It means you can believe absolutely nothing he posts if this is his idea of fun.

Edited July 10, 2014 by NancyL

[beau thai]

Hope I am not off topic and incur Nancy's wrath- god forbid!

But while I would like affordable health care here, I can quite understand why it is not available, as the portfolio of so many older people who have, in the main, not paid into 'the system' here, would divert resources from Thai nationals who surely deserve to come first.

Some years ago I was considering Malta as a retirement bolt hole - they had great tax deals and healthcare. But from the small pool of retirees, they suddenly picked up a US$500k healthcare bill for one incoming retiree. Huge money for a small island. Then they started erecting financial fences to ensure it didnt happen again .

I guess we cant expect something for nothing...

[Mapguy]

It is astonishing that no one seems to have anything substantive to say! What's with all the irrelevant discussion of the new American health care scheme and all the personal comments?

There's evidently a health insurance problem for many foreigners in Chiang Mai if the popularity of the short-lived inexpensive 30 bhat scheme in Chiang Mai was any indication. So, what should be done?

[MESmith]

It is astonishing that no one seems to have anything substantive to say! What's with all the irrelevant discussion of the new American health care scheme and all the personal comments?

There's evidently a health insurance problem for many foreigners in Chiang Mai if the popularity of the short-lived inexpensive 30 bhat scheme in Chiang Mai was any indication. So, what should be done?

Allow non working foreigners to join the "social security" that working folk pay into? And, while they're at it, allow non working Thais to contribute.

[roger1999]

Bupa offers a very nice policy (platinum) for about 50,000 baht per year. I only know two other retired guys living in CM besides myself. One has Bupa Platinum and one has no coverage at all.

[beau thai]

Bupa offers a very nice policy (platinum) for about 50,000 baht per year. I only know two other retired guys living in CM besides myself. One has Bupa Platinum and one has no coverage at all.

I am sure that 'very nice platinum policy' will cost more with age-and maybe when they think the risk reward is wrong for them they will elect not to renew. Their prerogative.

[beau thai]

It is astonishing that no one seems to have anything substantive to say! What's with all the irrelevant discussion of the new American health care scheme and all the personal comments?

There's evidently a health insurance problem for many foreigners in Chiang Mai if the popularity of the short-lived inexpensive 30 bhat scheme in Chiang Mai was any indication. So, what should be done?

I suspect the substantive answer you are seeking is that the insurers have done their risk analysis, which is why the premiums for older people are so high. The health insurance problem you describe is surely just that people find the cost of cover unacceptable.

What other substantive input are you seeking??

You ask what should be done? I guess we self insure (and pray!) or man-up and pay the premium. They seem to be the only choices

[Dante99]

It is astonishing that no one seems to have anything substantive to say! What's with all the irrelevant discussion of the new American health care scheme and all the personal comments?

There's evidently a health insurance problem for many foreigners in Chiang Mai if the popularity of the short-lived inexpensive 30 bhat scheme in Chiang Mai was any indication. So, what should be done?

What should be done is an absurd question. Who's should? Yours, mine, the government's, God's.......

Everybody simply has to do what they can and if it is not enough, live with the consequences.

[kcore]

I have that policy for 4 years now. Just got my renew notice and new premium is 97k! What now?

[roger1999]

I've had the BUPA platinum policy since 2008, so about six years now. The annual price didn't budge until I hit 50, then it went up a few thousand baht. As long as you sign up before 60 you can continue indefinitely. If you are over 60 or 65 I don't think they will take you on.

I would pay roughly 4.5 times that for coverage in the US.

[roger1999]

I have that policy for 4 years now. Just got my renew notice and new premium is 97k! What now?

Is your agent playing games with you? It's possible. A friend of mine (same age as me) paid 56k for BUPA platinum and I pay 45.6k currently.

[kcore]

I've had the BUPA platinum policy since 2008, so about six years now. The annual price didn't budge until I hit 50, then it went up a few thousand baht. As long as you sign up before 60 you can continue indefinitely. If you are over 60 or 65 I don't think they will take you on.

I would pay roughly 4.5 times that for coverage in the US.

Thanks for that rodger. I am under 60 and agree the increase were minimal every year until this one. I had a surgery of 180k at ram. If they are going to jack the rate due to a large surgery claim in a given year, then i am done with bupa. Will they lower the premimium next year if no claims? What other options do i have? I invested in bupa as my insurance provider based on several factors. Factors that are proving false 4 years later.

[kcore]

I have that policy for 4 years now. Just got my renew notice and new premium is 97k! What now?

Is your agent playing games with you? It's possible. A friend of mine (same age as me) paid 56k for BUPA platinum and I pay 45.6k currently.

I will be having a meeting to discuds this at the office after bhuda days......i have been very happy with bupa until this renewal. My policy also covers my wife so....actually prem was 62k last year. Now 97k for the 2 of us. Ridiculous!

[roger1999]

I've had the BUPA platinum policy since 2008, so about six years now. The annual price didn't budge until I hit 50, then it went up a few thousand baht. As long as you sign up before 60 you can continue indefinitely. If you are over 60 or 65 I don't think they will take you on.

I would pay roughly 4.5 times that for coverage in the US.

Thanks for that rodger. I am under 60 and agree the increase were minimal every year until this one. I had a surgery of 180k at ram. If they are going to jack the rate due to a large surgery claim in a given year, then i am done with bupa. Will they lower the premimium next year if no claims? What other options do i have? I invested in bupa as my insurance provider based on several factors. Factors that are proving false 4 years later.

I'm sorry but I cannot answer your questions. I'd advise you to talk to your agent, or to BUPA directly. But the information you provided is good to know and I will question my agent the next time I see her. So far I have never filed a claim in six years, and I plan to pay myself for any minor medical expenses. While 180k isn't minor, I probably would have paid that myself had I known that the annual fee would go up so much.

For myself, the BUPA insurance is something to be used with something goes very, very wrong.

[Oscar2]

It is astonishing that no one seems to have anything substantive to say! What's with all the irrelevant discussion of the new American health care scheme and all the personal comments?

There's evidently a health insurance problem for many foreigners in Chiang Mai if the popularity of the short-lived inexpensive 30 bhat scheme in Chiang Mai was any indication. So, what should be done?

you can always count on Thighlander to interject some irrelevant info about American health care, politics or American short-term travel insurance companies for Americans which has nothing to do with Thailand.

one idea would be a similar plan to the last one but with more realistic premiums like 12K-20K THB per year depending on age/risk, less for those say 45 or younger.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Oscar2

[Thighlander]

Usually I get paid for teaching Special Ed, but my references to the "new system" in America were due to the OP stating the need to get healthy young people into the pool to reduce the cost for the elderly. That was clearly an underlying theme of ACA. It's absurd reasoning, and the Millennials aren't falling for it. For all those who say my www.hcc.com coverage is not worthwhile; not one has gone to their website and proven that it can't be done for quite a few years....364 days at a time. A recent poster mentioned BUPA...yes, that is true Health Insurance....you have the privilege of getting your premiums jacked by 100% or so if you become ill or make a claim. As far as the Romney Plan...I called it a voucher system, the Washington Post called it a voucher system, and Obama called it a voucher system. Romney/Ryan didn't use the term simply because it is such a buzz word for the Left. Privatization? Can you imagine a private company doing a better job than the government? Fed Ex v. The USPS? Bumrungrad v. any Government Hospital? Here is a new word I would like everyone to learn today: "Sustainability." As in: government safety net programs that operate like pyramid schemes are not sustainable.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Thighlander