South Thailand border crossings reports problems to enter with 60-days tourist visas "TR60"

[LivinLOS]

Coming in and out with a 30 day exempt entry with your schedule will not be a problem. You should note I wrote in and out. You are not an out and back in a short period of time. You are spending more time out of the country than in the country.

Is one way it might be.. However he is clearly using the 30 day visa exempt entry for purposes other than tourism. Something that would concern me.

Maybe less of a risk on 90 day rotations, but those on lesser ones its an issue that is very possible.

Actually I am a tourist for the 1 month in 4 that I am here, but I can also see why immigration might raise their eyebrows. It's a little grey.

So you dont have a home or apartment etc ??

In that case showing hotel booking and the like wlll strongly back up the tourism angle. I more mean the guys with homes, wives, cars etc here for a years, but on 30 days because it fits thier in and out lifestyle. I really dont see how they dont fall foul of this 'not tourist' aspect.

[Cam Khao]

Coming in and out with a 30 day exempt entry with your schedule will not be a problem. You should note I wrote in and out. You are not an out and back in a short period of time. You are spending more time out of the country than in the country.

Is one way it might be.. However he is clearly using the 30 day visa exempt entry for purposes other than tourism. Something that would concern me.

Maybe less of a risk on 90 day rotations, but those on lesser ones its an issue that is very possible.

Actually I am a tourist for the 1 month in 4 that I am here, but I can also see why immigration might raise their eyebrows. It's a little grey.

So you dont have a home or apartment etc ??

In that case showing hotel booking and the like wlll strongly back up the tourism angle. I more mean the guys with homes, wives, cars etc here for a years, but on 30 days because it fits thier in and out lifestyle. I really dont see how they dont fall foul of this 'not tourist' aspect.

I stay with family while I am here, that's when I'm not touring around Thailand. So yes, I usually have a couple of hotel bookings as well before I get here, depending on my plans for the month. Off to Koh Chang tomorrow! I hope the rainy season doesn't arrive now!

[LivinLOS]

Coming in and out with a 30 day exempt entry with your schedule will not be a problem. You should note I wrote in and out. You are not an out and back in a short period of time. You are spending more time out of the country than in the country.

Is one way it might be.. However he is clearly using the 30 day visa exempt entry for purposes other than tourism. Something that would concern me.

Maybe less of a risk on 90 day rotations, but those on lesser ones its an issue that is very possible.

That is your opinion because you know what he doing.

It would certainly not appear that way to an immigration officer. He is somebody that can travel around for a few months and then come to Thailand and spend a month.

There are people from within the region that make regular trips here just for the weekend and accumulate a lot of exempt. entries. Tourist or not?

They just don't want people living here full time on exempt entries.

Not for the oil guys I mention.. 5 or more years,.. in and out 6 7 8 times a year.. 100's of stamps..

They are not going to look at each stamp and see its seperated by a 28 rotation.. They will just see a passport full of such stamps and say "not tourist"

We will see.. However I have said all along this back to back part isnt going to be the only determining aspect. I think a lot of oil guys will be going for the Elite 5 years shortly.

[Pralaad]

It's worth remembering that possession of a visa does not guarantee the holder admission to the country, it simply allows the holder to present themselves to an Immigration Officer at the border, and it's the IO who makes the decision as the whether you will be allowed to enter.

This happens in most, if not all, countries in the world where a visa is required. However in most, and again if not all, countries, for a visa holder to be refused entry the IO would need to make a case to their superior officer.

I sincerely hope that Joe is correct in his view, and I suspect he is, that those with re-entry permits would have no problem.

I share the view expressed by others that this is a hair trigger reaction by some IO's who are not fully conversant with the rules or maybe scared of their own shadow, or maybe even demonstrating their power.

But in most if not all countries they have a review and verification and appeal process. At the moment in Thailand you are at mercy of one with no way to review or appeal

There is certainly a review, verification and even an appeal process here. If writing about being denied entry it would go up a level or possibley two before you were denied, If only two you could ask for it to be taken to a higher level.

You are correct , however you can do all of the above once you are back home , while say in Oz you can do all of the above while with immigration at the border.

Then you can also file an appeal once you are back home.

Furthermore in country like Oz , if you do not speak English they bring in someone to translate .

In Thailand you can not appeal at the border, you can not ask for review at the border, officers do not call your wife's or friends or landlords and most certainly do not bring in someone to translate.

From the reports, you get a no , may be get sent to see senior officer and this is it

[Cam Khao]

Coming in and out with a 30 day exempt entry with your schedule will not be a problem. You should note I wrote in and out. You are not an out and back in a short period of time. You are spending more time out of the country than in the country.

Is one way it might be.. However he is clearly using the 30 day visa exempt entry for purposes other than tourism. Something that would concern me.

Maybe less of a risk on 90 day rotations, but those on lesser ones its an issue that is very possible.

That is your opinion because you know what he doing.

It would certainly not appear that way to an immigration officer. He is somebody that can travel around for a few months and then come to Thailand and spend a month.

There are people from within the region that make regular trips here just for the weekend and accumulate a lot of exempt. entries. Tourist or not?

They just don't want people living here full time on exempt entries.

Not for the oil guys I mention.. 5 or more years,.. in and out 6 7 8 times a year.. 100's of stamps..

They are not going to look at each stamp and see its seperated by a 28 rotation.. They will just see a passport full of such stamps and say "not tourist"

We will see.. However I have said all along this back to back part isnt going to be the only determining aspect. I think a lot of oil guys will be going for the Elite 5 years shortly.

I agree with you entirely, hence my initial concern of having problems during the next 2 years before I can move back to LOS full-time again on a proper extension.

Even coming in to the country last week I had a backup plan in case they turned me away at swampy. I shall have one every time I fly in now just in case.

[AYJAYDEE]

It's worth remembering that possession of a visa does not guarantee the holder admission to the country, it simply allows the holder to present themselves to an Immigration Officer at the border, and it's the IO who makes the decision as the whether you will be allowed to enter.

This happens in most, if not all, countries in the world where a visa is required. However in most, and again if not all, countries, for a visa holder to be refused entry the IO would need to make a case to their superior officer.

I sincerely hope that Joe is correct in his view, and I suspect he is, that those with re-entry permits would have no problem.

I share the view expressed by others that this is a hair trigger reaction by some IO's who are not fully conversant with the rules or maybe scared of their own shadow, or maybe even demonstrating their power.

american border guards can and do turn people back at the border on their own authority!

[trd]

How many times did so many on here say 'no one with a valid visa was going to have problems' despite the immigration boss being very clear about this included them ??

Lets see how those oil workers do next shall we.. Those who believe they can continue to live in thailand on 30 day stamps simply because they are not back to back are far mreo hopeful than I.

Yep, I lost count of the number of times I read "Go and get a proper visa and you will be fine."

And then this.

A tourist visa is not the proper visa for people that live here

Well if that's true, what about my case. I have two used double entry tourist visas in my passport including 30 day exemptions to extend the tourist visas by an extra month which I got from return trips to Singapore by air. I am now on my third double tourist visa and just did a return trip and came in to Phuket airport a few days ago with yet another 30 day exemption on the last leg of this visa.

I am going back to the UK in a few weeks to stay for 3 weeks and will apply for one entry tourist visa. When I get back I will apply for a retirement extension of stay and transfer the 800K I need to seed for 2 months. Now you say that a tourist visa is for tourism, but immigration told me to get a tourist visa and convert it to an "O" when I get back to go the retirement route.

Given the current climate and the history of my passport, what should I do to avoid any potential problems when I go through immigration on my return

Edited July 10, 2014 by trd

[Essex Exile]

How many times did so many on here say 'no one with a valid visa was going to have problems' despite the immigration boss being very clear about this included them ??

Lets see how those oil workers do next shall we.. Those who believe they can continue to live in thailand on 30 day stamps simply because they are not back to back are far mreo hopeful than I.

Yep, I lost count of the number of times I read "Go and get a proper visa and you will be fine."

And then this.

A tourist visa is not the proper visa for people that live here

Maybe not, but we were advised on here that there would be 'no problems' if you have a proper tourist visa from an embassy or consult and the crackdown was on visa exempts only. This is clearly NOT the case, so we have been mis-informed.

On another matter and probably stating the obvious, but if you have a non O based on marriage then make sure you take your marriage cert with you when you leave the country.

[emiinnz]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

Edited July 10, 2014 by emiinnz

[Baerboxer]

"Those individuals who have a history of 15/30 day border runs and who are then trying to enter with a new 60 days tourist visa from Penang, for example, have been refused entry."

This indicates that solely being in possession of a valid visa does not give foreigners a right to enter Thailand. It seems that a tourist visa alone does not provide automatic entry at the border.

One needs to pass the interview at the border with the immigration officer who has the final say. The immigration officer at the border has the right to refuse entry if he/she believes the foreigner is attempting to enter Thailand with a tourist visa for purposes other than tourism. That would be illegal use of the visa previously granted at a consulate or embassy.

Until Thai Visa provides updates I would recommend anyone planning to enter Thailand at a land border crossing with a Tourist Visa to be prepared to prove they are bona fide tourists.

The burden of proof now seems to be on the tourist to prove that the purpose of the visit is tourism. Get prepared to provide the border crossing immigration officer with: prepaid itineraries on travel agent letterhead, prepaid hotel vouchers, proof of funds from overseas, prepaid airline tickets back to Australia, USA or your home country, Western Union receipts, ATM receipts, hotel brochures, tourist guide books, or even detailed handwritten notes in your tourist guide book to show where and how you plan to be a tourist.. etc. etc.

Be prepared and well documented to plead your case at the border to assure the immigration officer that you are a tourist. If you can, you might be OK.

Or am I almost completely incorrect?

Not sure. I took that to mean that regular bonafide tourists are ok and that this check is for people who have loads of in/out stamps AND tourist visas.

I don't think Thailand will start turning away genuine tourists at any point, but it does seem to want to get rid of the long term people who stay here on tourist visas but who aren't really tourists.

For example, I know a guy near me who has been on tourist visas and in/out stamps for the best part of 5 years!! 5 years!!

How many real 'tourists' do you know who go on holiday for 5 years?

I think it's people like that they are getting tough with.

I think along the same lines as you Panther. The issue with people using tourist visas or visa exempt status and then doing border runs whilst in reality not being tourists happens in many countries.

I read this as Thailand cracking down and affirming that tourist visas, or 30 days visa exemptions are intended for people visiting for tourism. They are not intended for long stays or to be continually used back to back with border runs as a means of avoiding the correct visa. Those who want to stay long term have to obtain the correct visas and then meet the requirements for annual extensions.

Many countries crack down on this now not just Thailand. 25 years ago, when travelling to different countries in Asia, it was common for the immigration officers to ask to see onward flight tickets, hotel reservation confirmation etc. Many used to have written customs declarations too as well as the landing card. Everyone got more "electronic" and relaxed. Now they are all tightening up again and becoming more questioning and applying the rules.

[harrycallahan]

Bit silly, don't issue the visa if you don't want them entering. Send out a memo to your consulates.

[larsjohnsson]

How many times did so many on here say 'no one with a valid visa was going to have problems' despite the immigration boss being very clear about this included them ??

Lets see how those oil workers do next shall we.. Those who believe they can continue to live in thailand on 30 day stamps simply because they are not back to back are far mreo hopeful than I.

Yep, I lost count of the number of times I read "Go and get a proper visa and you will be fine."

And then this.

A tourist visa is not the proper visa for people that live here

Maybe not, but we were advised on here that there would be 'no problems' if you have a proper tourist visa from an embassy or consult and the crackdown was on visa exempts only. This is clearly NOT the case, so we have been mis-informed.

On another matter and probably stating the obvious, but if you have a non O based on marriage then make sure you take your marriage cert with you when you leave the country.

Whom did advice you that a tourist visa would not give you problem if you live here?

Every post that I see here from people that write "get a proper visa" always say you should get non immigrant, extension of stay, ED visa, elite card or other long stay visas if living here.

I have never seen people here that recommend tourist visas if living here

Edited July 10, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[AYJAYDEE]

Bit silly, don't issue the visa if you don't want them entering. Send out a memo to your consulates.

two different ministries and probably have internal rivalries

[BestBitterPhuket]

Let's face it, the system has been abused for years. Why should those who abused the system deserve any more compassion than those being evicted from the beaches in Phuket? The sword slashing corruption slices both ways. Go Army Go!! If you support dictatorial regimes, live with ALL the consequences!

Abused? You are TOTALLY wrong. It has been accepted by the Thai authorities AND it is not illegal. No current or past legislation have ever ruled that no back to back visa exemptions are illegal. It's been a legal and accepted practice. Now they want to change, but they are still not willing to make it into law.

[Gweiloman]

Coming in and out with a 30 day exempt entry with your schedule will not be a problem. You should note I wrote in and out. You are not an out and back in a short period of time. You are spending more time out of the country than in the country.

Is one way it might be.. However he is clearly using the 30 day visa exempt entry for purposes other than tourism. Something that would concern me.

Maybe less of a risk on 90 day rotations, but those on lesser ones its an issue that is very possible.

That is your opinion because you know what he doing.

It would certainly not appear that way to an immigration officer. He is somebody that can travel around for a few months and then come to Thailand and spend a month.

There are people from within the region that make regular trips here just for the weekend and accumulate a lot of exempt. entries. Tourist or not?

They just don't want people living here full time on exempt entries.

Not for the oil guys I mention.. 5 or more years,.. in and out 6 7 8 times a year.. 100's of stamps..

They are not going to look at each stamp and see its seperated by a 28 rotation.. They will just see a passport full of such stamps and say "not tourist"

We will see.. However I have said all along this back to back part isnt going to be the only determining aspect. I think a lot of oil guys will be going for the Elite 5 years shortly.

Maybe this whole issue is just a disingenuous way of reviving and propping up the Elite Card, especially for big earners like the oil guys who can easily afford the fees.

I now have over 800k hibernating in my bank account for when I do my extension of stay based on retirement in October. Hope the process goes smoothly.

[Essex Exile]

Bit silly, don't issue the visa if you don't want them entering. Send out a memo to your consulates.

Quite. I await to see if there are any examples of someone obtaining a tourist visa in Vientiane then getting knocked back at Nong Khai.

[IMA_FARANG]

I tried to warn people that using a one year multi entry non O visa each year..... going back to your hone country each year and getting a new one year multi entry visa ... was going to be a problem sooner than later.

The method the immigration would like you to use as a long term stay resident in Thailand is:

• Get a non O visa in your home country .... either a one year Non O multi entry o a 90 day non O single entry.
• Use that to enter Thailand
• Then in Thailand get your 1 year extension (retirement, marriage, employment, or education) from your local immigration office.
• Then renew that extension annually as required each year at your local immigration.

That is the way immigration prefers you to do it for a long term stay. The reason is, as I said then, that using this method gives the local immigration more control over long term stay residents (as per example 90 day reporting required).

This trend will continue .... simply because the local immigration has more local control that way.

Secondly, a wise man would understand that a double or triple entry tourist visa is not intended as a long term stay visa.

The clue is in that word "tourist".

And in the name a "single entry tourist visa, the key part is 'single entry".

Getting two in a row is just like waving a red flag at a bull.

A word to the wise.

As it says in the Bible, "they that hath eyes, let them see: and they that hath ears, let them hear"..

Edited July 10, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[jonhill]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

Could you give some details please - on the face of it this seems like a game changer. Which country are you from? would you normally be allowed to enter for 30 days on a visa exempt stamp? How long have you been in Thailand? which airport did you arrive at in Bangkok?

Thanks.

[MrWorldwide]

Bit silly, don't issue the visa if you don't want them entering. Send out a memo to your consulates.

two different ministries and probably have internal rivalries

It goes beyond that - in cities where there is no Embassy (Brisbane for example) the operation of the Consulate is contracted out to individuals. FWIW, I have found the Brisbane Consulate to be the most particular when it came to things like proving you have the funds for a 3-month stay and purchasing a return ticket to Thailand before they will issue you a Tourist Visa. I have little doubt that a 'memo' has indeed been issued but it comes back to whether or not you want to risk using a land border or if you might have a better chance flying into Thailand - reports so far would seem to indicate that the latter is a better option at this point in time. The visa is only an invitation - its the doorman that seems to be the issue.

[AYJAYDEE]

Let's face it, the system has been abused for years. Why should those who abused the system deserve any more compassion than those being evicted from the beaches in Phuket? The sword slashing corruption slices both ways. Go Army Go!! If you support dictatorial regimes, live with ALL the consequences!

Abused? You are TOTALLY wrong. It has been accepted by the Thai authorities AND it is not illegal. No current or past legislation have ever ruled that no back to back visa exemptions are illegal. It's been a legal and accepted practice. Now they want to change, but they are still not willing to make it into law.

just because something is allowed to continue does not mean they must do so as circumstances change. and no one is saying its illegal. they are simply saying they wont accept it any longer. and they are perfectly within their right to do so.

[emiinnz]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

Could you give some details please - on the face of it this seems like a game changer. Which country are you from? would you normally be allowed to enter for 30 days on a visa exempt stamp? How long have you been in Thailand? which airport did you arrive at in Bangkok?

Thanks.

I hold Japanese passport and yes normally I can get 30 days on a visa exempt stamp when I fly in. I've been in Thailand many years now as I was working before and they also told me it's not good to have work visa and then cancelled and then being tourist. I arrived in Suvamnaphum Airport.

Hope my experieces will help some of the people like me. I worked hard and now I want to travel, but it seems it's not gonna happen so soon.

[jonhill]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

Could you give some details please - on the face of it this seems like a game changer. Which country are you from? would you normally be allowed to enter for 30 days on a visa exempt stamp? How long have you been in Thailand? which airport did you arrive at in Bangkok?

Thanks.

I hold Japanese passport and yes normally I can get 30 days on a visa exempt stamp when I fly in. I've been in Thailand many years now as I was working before and they also told me it's not good to have work visa and then cancelled and then being tourist. I arrived in Suvamnaphum Airport.

Hope my experieces will help some of the people like me. I worked hard and now I want to travel, but it seems it's not gonna happen so soon.

Wow. thanks for the info. just to be clear - you had a flight ticket to Japan which you showed them?

[moe666]

The more I think about the emerging situation, the more I come to believe that Thailand is having a clear out of the long stayers, and hoping to focus more on high quality tourists.

People who were doing 30 day visa runs got hit hard first, and in many ways this was inevitable at some stage. So what did these people do? They went and got themselves a valid tourist visa. Immigration is not stupid though, these are still the same people they didn't want here in the first place. So now they are being bounced as well. They are still not tourists in the eyes of immigration.

And now the real kicker. People who have gone and gotten a non-immigrant visa of some type, which says sure, you are right, I am not a tourist, and now I have a visa that reflects that, are also being bounced. Once again, immigration is not stupid, they are the same people that were originally doing the whole 30 day exemption thing.

So what's the option? Well, one used to be that you got in, and then never left, but kept that 20k Baht handy to clear up your overstay if you did need to leave. But we all know that's not possible anymore (rightly so).

The writing is on the wall. Pretty soon, unless you are on an extension of stay for retirement or family reasons, or a short-term tourist visiting the country for a few weeks a year, then don't expect to be staying too long.

Who knows how far this will go. Many of us were sitting in what we thought was a safe place, with a valid visa. Now it's not looking so safe.

Your post describes exactly why immigration is cracking down on people who have been staying long term on border runs and tourist visas, they have been breaking the law and the powers that be are fed up with it.

[ubonjoe]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

Could you give some details please - on the face of it this seems like a game changer. Which country are you from? would you normally be allowed to enter for 30 days on a visa exempt stamp? How long have you been in Thailand? which airport did you arrive at in Bangkok?

Thanks.

Nothing new. Singapore has used that excuse for not issuing a visa long before this one. There is no rule to back it up.

They are using a rule for exempt entries that went away almost 6 years ago.

[emiinnz]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

Could you give some details please - on the face of it this seems like a game changer. Which country are you from? would you normally be allowed to enter for 30 days on a visa exempt stamp? How long have you been in Thailand? which airport did you arrive at in Bangkok?

Thanks.

I hold Japanese passport and yes normally I can get 30 days on a visa exempt stamp when I fly in. I've been in Thailand many years now as I was working before and they also told me it's not good to have work visa and then cancelled and then being tourist. I arrived in Suvamnaphum Airport.

Hope my experieces will help some of the people like me. I worked hard and now I want to travel, but it seems it's not gonna happen so soon.

Wow. thanks for the info. just to be clear - you had a flight ticket to Japan which you showed them?

Yes, but they didn't really look into it. One lady was quite mad. They said she is an inspector. I even had bank statements too. What they needed to see was my history in my passport.

[phuketrichard]

has anyone been denied entry with a 1 year b visa and work permit in hand?

or have there been any reports on this?>

[smedly]

OK so I'll ask this question to those that think someone staying in a foreign country after 12 months is still a tourist

At what point do they become a resident

Isn't it up to Thailand to decide

and what is an illegal alien

these are all linked

you can make a comparison to somewhere like the USA if you wish

Moving on - I think these changes reflect the additional visitors coming here from countries like Africa - India - Russia etc, I believe they have discovered many from these countries abusing the rules to an extent that it is now out of control

It was easy to control when it was UK US and mainly European visitors

I think they are simply trying to gain some order on the situation and unfortunately long standing custom and practice is coming to an end

[AYJAYDEE]

OK so I'll ask this question to those that think someone staying in a foreign country after 12 months is still a tourist

At what point do they become a resident

Isn't it up to Thailand to decide

and what is an illegal alien

these are all linked

you can make a comparison to somewhere like the USA if you wish

Moving on - I think these changes reflect the additional visitors coming here from countries like Africa - India - Russia etc, I believe they have discovered many from these countries abusing the rules to an extent that it is now out of control

It was easy to control when it was UK US and mainly European visitors

I think they are simply trying to gain some order on the situation and unfortunately long standing custom and practice is coming to an end

not only that, the THEYS have changed. perhaps a nationalistic, conservative group of military officers have decided that enough is enough.

[Maestro]

Why are Thai Embassies issuing and charging for useless Tourist visas? Shouldn't the screening process start with them? Or they just too lazy and incompetent.

I guess refunds are out of the question...thieving ********.

When I apply for a tourist visa, I have to write the puropose of my trip on the application form. Then I have to confirm with my signature that all information I have given on the form is correct. What more should I expect the consulate to do? Give me a lie detector test?

[jonhill]

Seems like some people on here are forgetting that the new stricter guidelines were announced well before the coup happened.

It is totally nuts what's going on now though - purely from an economic standpoint for the country...ok fair enough they want to crack down on illegal workers, but is the best way to do that by turning IO's into judge and jury? many legitimate tourists will suffer unjustly and Thailand's reputation as a tourist destination will follow.