South Thailand border crossings reports problems to enter with 60-days tourist visas "TR60"

[riclag]

I've been coming here for 4 years now,staying longer each time I come. Each year I go back to the states 3-4 months,Taxes, medical and to keep up with my free flights via credit card promo's. I can't retire fully .I have another 4 years for social Security to kick in. I do like to travel around Thailand each time I come. I think a apartment is a good Idea expense wise opposed to long term stay in a hotel .I have booked my ticket for September.I'm very concerned about all of this We'll have to see the week of August 12 how everything works out.I for one don't like doing my 90 day turn arounds but now it seems this time its going to be like going to the dentist having a tooth pulled .I'll be sweating like a pig going to get slaughter.Thats all I have to say about that.

[hawker9000]

And Ubon Joe is right. This is not about people on Non-O or extension of stay. It does not concern those people (myself included) whatsoever.

It is about people entering on TOURIST VISAS who also have a history of border runs.

Genuine tourists have no need to worry either.

Or am I mistaken?

Ah, and that sounds SO much like what they USED to be saying here, first about "out & ins" ONLY, then that was expanded to include ALL border runs & visa exempt stamps, and then THAT was expanded to include ALL inbounds expecting visa exempt stamps, even if not back to back... Always, "it's just about them, and NOT about tourist visas" (or to put it more succinctly, "it's just about THEM, and NOT about US". Well, guess what. Now it's ALSO about tourist visas but NOT about Non-Os or extensions of stay. We'll see. 'Wouldn't bet the farm on it though.

'Seems whatever your history may be, no matter the visas involved, if the immigration officer takes an interest in you or is having a bad day, well, 'hope you used your "what to have with you" checklist and were meticulous about it! Yeap, definitely stay tuned folks. I'm getting more & more certain that the best is yet to come. Funny how the smugettes seem to gradually be getting less & less vocal about all this...

Come August 12th (when all this was supposed to kick in at the airports, for those who haven't been following all these threads since the April-May timeframe) I think things are going to get VERY interesting indeed...

Parenthetically, it's interesting that, at least as stated by many here, you're expected to prepay hotel rooms (many not or only in part refundable) and even have a complete itinerary provided for in advance, when you can't even be sure about being let in the country! (And this despite never having done anything wrong, and wouldn't THINK there should be any problem at all!) 'Beginning to sound like the makings of a nice little thai national scam. Demand travelers prepay everything (ostensibly to satisfy nosey immigration officers), and then deny them entry...

[baboon]

Seems like some people on here are forgetting that the new stricter guidelines were announced well before the coup happened.

It is totally nuts what's going on now though - purely from an economic standpoint for the country...ok fair enough they want to crack down on illegal workers, but is the best way to do that by turning IO's into judge and jury? many legitimate tourists will suffer unjustly and Thailand's reputation as a tourist destination will follow.

I should imagine it will, yes. Imagine a casual holidaymaker starting to read stories of people being turned away at the border in the weekend travel supplements, say, for what would appear to them no reason and just deciding that the whole thing sounds simply not worth the hassle - other destinations are available, despite what some here think.

[phil2]

I wonder if they just check the passport for the stamps, or they also look at their computers. Actually we are all registered in a database, but it seems they don't use that to check. What if you renew your passport, and have a brand, clean ones? I have never seen this mentioned, but actually this makes quite a big difference, right?

They do. I heard of someone who was arrested on her way out last week. One of her visas she got years ago through an Aranyaprathet visa run company was said to not be in the database.

Edit: Generalisation removed.

Edited July 10, 2014 by phil2

[MK1]

I tried to warn people that using a one year multi entry non O visa each year..... going back to your hone country each year and getting a new one year multi entry visa ... was going to be a problem sooner than later.

The method the immigration would like you to use as a long term stay resident in Thailand is:

• Get a non O visa in your home country .... either a one year Non O multi entry o a 90 day non O single entry.
• Use that to enter Thailand
• Then in Thailand get your 1 year extension (retirement, marriage, employment, or education) from your local immigration office.
• Then renew that extension annually as required each year at your local immigration.

That is the way immigration prefers you to do it for a long term stay. The reason is, as I said then, that using this method gives the local immigration more control over long term stay residents (as per example 90 day reporting required).

This trend will continue .... simply because the local immigration has more local control that way.

Secondly, a wise man would understand that a double or triple entry tourist visa is not intended as a long term stay visa.

The clue is in that word "tourist".

And in the name a "single entry tourist visa, the key part is 'single entry".

Getting two in a row is just like waving a red flag at a bull.

A word to the wise.

As it says in the Bible, "they that hath eyes, let them see: and they that hath ears, let them hear"..

I can appreciate the proverb ‘when in Rome do as the Romans do’ but in this circumstance we're referring to the laws of a Buddhist country are we not.

So rather than use revelations from the bible, perhaps you should have referred to a quote from Buddha;

“If the problem can be solved why worry? If the problem cannot be solved worrying will do you no good.”

― Śāntideva

Edited July 10, 2014 by MK1

[stevenl]

Seems like some people on here are forgetting that the new stricter guidelines were announced well before the coup happened.

It is totally nuts what's going on now though - purely from an economic standpoint for the country...ok fair enough they want to crack down on illegal workers, but is the best way to do that by turning IO's into judge and jury? many legitimate tourists will suffer unjustly and Thailand's reputation as a tourist destination will follow.

Yes, very true, this was announced and started before the coup.

But no, I don't think this will affect the real tourists, but is is affecting people living here on tourist visas and visa exempt entries.

[DrTuner]

Somewhat obvious. It doesn't take a genius of an immigration officer to figure out who's staying long time with exemptions and TR visas. Get a non-imm. They've been saying it all the time from the start. I must say I'm impressed by the follow up to their statement, it must be the army breathing down immigrations neck. Part of the reforms.

[fxe1200]

I have not heard any reports of people being denied entry on a non-o visa.

From ubonjoe, "I think that the Ranong crossings could be added to the list. Even those with multiple entry non-o visas were turned away there along with tourist visas."

...may be it is helpful to bring a copy of the work permit and/or yellow tabien baan along. Who knows?

[INV]

If I understand correct and some poster was check very hard on Non o visa so Iam worried. I have a couple of Turist visas

and the last 3 years on Ed visa and plan to get retirement visa soon but as I read they can if they feel like it say get lost at the boarder based on my history?

Edited July 10, 2014 by INV

[Maestro]

Let's face it, the system has been abused for years. Why should those who abused the system deserve any more compassion than those being evicted from the beaches in Phuket? The sword slashing corruption slices both ways. Go Army Go!! If you support dictatorial regimes, live with ALL the consequences!

Abused? You are TOTALLY wrong. It has been accepted by the Thai authorities AND it is not illegal. No current or past legislation have ever ruled that no back to back visa exemptions are illegal. It's been a legal and accepted practice. Now they want to change, but they are still not willing to make it into law.

Abuse in the context of this topic means using a visa to travel to Thailand for a purpose other than for which the visa was applied and issued. Not every detail goes into the law, ie the Immigration Act, but it has always been the rule, issued on the basis of the Immigration Act, that a visa is valid only for the purpose for which it is issued. What we are seeing now is a much stricter enforcement of this rule because, according to senior immigration officials quoted in news reports, the abuse of visa-exempt entries and visas has increased to a level where immigration can no longer be lenient about it.

[RHerberth]

Crackdown on visa exempt and tourist now. Non-immigrant without workpermit or retirement extension will follow....

[DrTuner]

Maybe this whole issue is just a disingenuous way of reviving and propping up the Elite Card, especially for big earners like the oil guys who can easily afford the fees.

The PE visa you get from Elite is not a non-immigrant visa. I believe the original intent was to enable frequent, wealthy visitors to easily come and go. Not to stay for the entire 5y in one go. Although if they start enforcing that, Thailand Elite will probably create a stink with their contacts at immigration.

[suppaman]

I crossed several times the Padang Besar border (the last one at the end of last year), and I've found only kind officers...maybe I was just lucky...anyway I find nothing wrong to force the use of the correct visas.

[Sena Dave]

I got questioned at Don Muang last week for the first time in 15 years . I work in Malaysia used to be Taiwan and China and My family live in Thailand, so every 6 weeks or so i pop home for a few days. It must have been the sheer amount of Thai stamps in my passport that got him at it. I showed him my residency card for Malaysia to show him I literally lived next door.I wasn't sure about mentioning the family as they could well say I'm not on Holiday or a tourist , but the 12 Aug for airports date was in my head so i told him I have custody of my kids and was here to visit them and he was fine , took about 5 minutes. I'm just wondering if he was practicing for the 12th , when he can turn me or people like me away. I intend to get the 1 year dependency visa in November but until then I'll be carrying details of my return flight , work contract and proof of address in Malaysia when i come to Thailand

[hawker9000]

I tried to warn people that using a one year multi entry non O visa each year..... going back to your hone country each year and getting a new one year multi entry visa ... was going to be a problem sooner than later.

The method the immigration would like you to use as a long term stay resident in Thailand is:

• Get a non O visa in your home country .... either a one year Non O multi entry o a 90 day non O single entry.
• Use that to enter Thailand
• Then in Thailand get your 1 year extension (retirement, marriage, employment, or education) from your local immigration office.
• Then renew that extension annually as required each year at your local immigration.

That is the way immigration prefers you to do it for a long term stay. The reason is, as I said then, that using this method gives the local immigration more control over long term stay residents (as per example 90 day reporting required).

This trend will continue .... simply because the local immigration has more local control that way.

Secondly, a wise man would understand that a double or triple entry tourist visa is not intended as a long term stay visa.

The clue is in that word "tourist".

And in the name a "single entry tourist visa, the key part is 'single entry".

Getting two in a row is just like waving a red flag at a bull.

A word to the wise.

As it says in the Bible, "they that hath eyes, let them see: and they that hath ears, let them hear"..

I can appreciate the proverb ‘when in Rome do as the Romans do’ but we're referring to the laws of a Buddhist country are we not.

So rather than use revelations from the bible, perhaps you should have referred to a quote from Buddha;

“If the problem can be solved why worry? If the problem cannot be solved worrying will do you no good.”

― Śāntideva

@IMA: If a double-entry tourist visa is not intended as a "long-stay visa" (by which I have to assume you mean the max 180d it could theoretically be used for), then why is it issued with a validity window that forces you to use the two entries practically back-to-back? My last one, despite being for a double-entry, only had a 90-day validity window. And THAT'S from the date of ISSUE, which was in the U.S., NOT from the date of first entry! And as any wise man knows, Thailand provides for an optional 30d extension which it will happily accept your money for, in connection with EACH of those entries! What you're saying will appeal to the righteous & smug (if not so wise), but doesn't really quite make sense. And the same for triple-entry visas: you can only get a max 180d validity window as far as I know.

If Thailand really doesn't want people staying for 90d, or 180d, or 270d, as tourists (as you seem to be preaching), then DON'T sell them the visas! Simple. If it wants some arbitrary "gone time" between each exit & entry, then SPECIFY THAT! Just SAY SO! It would be EASY!

A wiser, less pompous man might suggest that tourist visas were never intended to be used on a back-to-back-to-back basis, with foreigners only out of Thailand only long enough to obtain, and only for the purpose of obtaining, new ones when the old is used up. Even then, the limitations could easily be made more explicit and understandable. As an example (and this is only an example; these limitations could work in a number of ways), just declare that a person cannot be in the country on a tourist visa for more than xx days in any 6-month or 12-month (or yy-month) period, or that there must be a minimum zz days between each exit and entry, or that only one tourist visa can be issued within any 6/12/?? month period. So many ways to skin this cat. And all better than the current guessing game and lottery. Simply define the terms and declare the limits of use, and let the issuing consulates & embassies in on the secret as well. Get everyone - IOs, issuing authorities, and travelers - on the same page.

[RTH10260]

I have not heard any reports of people being denied entry on a non-o visa.

From ubonjoe, "I think that the Ranong crossings could be added to the list. Even those with multiple entry non-o visas were turned away there along with tourist visas."

Especially for multi-entry non-O it will be interesting to see what time immigration expects these holders to spend outside of Thailand before re-admission.

As for multiple back-to-back entries on tourist visa, I seem to remember that the consulate back in my European home country reminded me, that total stay in Thailand may not exeed 180 days within one year. I still need to check if this is the case for non-O visa of any type.

Of course passing the 180 day limit formally gives the Revenue Department a valid reason to taxation. I wonder how much extra these "new" long term residents will add to the Thai budget.

[DrTuner]

OK so I'll ask this question to those that think someone staying in a foreign country after 12 months is still a tourist

At what point do they become a resident

I'm not one of those, but there are a few interpretations what could be a resident:

Thai driving license: You need a proof of residence from immigration to get this, or a yellow thabian baan. You're resident if you have an address.

Tax residency: (http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html) more than 180 days per year spent in Thailand (I think this would make most sense to take as an official stance)

Permanent residency: You are a holder of an permanent residency permit (PR).

[DrTuner]

I have not heard any reports of people being denied entry on a non-o visa.

From ubonjoe, "I think that the Ranong crossings could be added to the list. Even those with multiple entry non-o visas were turned away there along with tourist visas."

...may be it is helpful to bring a copy of the work permit and/or yellow tabien baan along. Who knows?

And a copy of marriage certificate and/or birth certificates of the children. Makes sense to carry copies while going through immigration checkpoints. Proof of funds, too.

[stevenl]

@IMA: If a double-entry tourist visa is not intended as a "long-stay visa" (by which I have to assume you mean the max 180d it could theoretically be used for), then why is it issued with a validity window that forces you to use the two entries practically back-to-back? My last one, despite being for a double-entry, only had a 90-day validity window. And THAT'S from the date of ISSUE, which was in the U.S., NOT from the date of first entry! And as any wise man knows, Thailand provides for an optional 30d extension which it will happily accept your money for, in connection with EACH of those entries! What you're saying will appeal to the righteous & smug (if not so wise), but doesn't really quite make sense. And the same for triple-entry visas: you can only get a max 180d validity window as far as I know.

If Thailand really doesn't want people staying for 90d, or 180d, or 270d, as tourists (as you seem to be preaching), then DON'T sell them the visas! Simple. If it wants some arbitrary "gone time" between each exit & entry, then SPECIFY THAT! Just SAY SO! It would be EASY!

A wiser, less pompous man might suggest that tourist visas were never intended to be used on a back-to-back-to-back basis, with foreigners only out of Thailand only long enough to obtain, and only for the purpose of obtaining, new ones when the old is used up. Even then, the limitations could easily be made more explicit and understandable. As an example (and this is only an example; these limitations could work in a number of ways), just declare that a person cannot be in the country on a tourist visa for more than xx days in any 6-month or 12-month (or yy-month) period, or that there must be a minimum zz days between each exit and entry, or that only one tourist visa can be issued within any 6/12/?? month period. So many ways to skin this cat. And all better than the current guessing game and lottery. Simply define the terms and declare the limits of use, and let the issuing consulates & embassies in on the secret as well. Get everyone - IOs, issuing authorities, and travelers - on the same page.

Sounds very familiar, has been tried and proven not to work, too impractical at the border.

There really is no guessing game at the moment: tourists are very welcome and can enter, if in doubt some questions will be asked, people living here on tourist visa are in for a hard time.

[samran]

Seems like some people on here are forgetting that the new stricter guidelines were announced well before the coup happened.

It is totally nuts what's going on now though - purely from an economic standpoint for the country...ok fair enough they want to crack down on illegal workers, but is the best way to do that by turning IO's into judge and jury? many legitimate tourists will suffer unjustly and Thailand's reputation as a tourist destination will follow.

I take it you've never been through LHR in the UK or LAX, JFK or DFW as a non national passport holder then?

[scandinavi]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

After denied entry did they let you freely go and buy flight ticket to freely selected destination outside of Thailand? Would it be possible to buy ticket online in that situation?

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

[ubonjoe]

I have not heard any reports of people being denied entry on a non-o visa.

From ubonjoe, "I think that the Ranong crossings could be added to the list. Even those with multiple entry non-o visas were turned away there along with tourist visas."

Especially for multi-entry non-O it will be interesting to see what time immigration expects these holders to spend outside of Thailand before re-admission.

As for multiple back-to-back entries on tourist visa, I seem to remember that the consulate back in my European home country reminded me, that total stay in Thailand may not exeed 180 days within one year. I still need to check if this is the case for non-O visa of any type.

Of course passing the 180 day limit formally gives the Revenue Department a valid reason to taxation. I wonder how much extra these "new" long term residents will add to the Thai budget.

My post saying non-o has been changed my intention was non immigrant visas because all types have problems.

There is not rule that says you cannot stay in the country for more than 180 days on visas.

You are considered a resident for tax purposes which your here 180 day in a calender year. You are only liable to pay taxes on the money bring into the country or that is earned here. It also depends upon the type of income you have. This has been covered in other topics and there not need to discuss it further in this topic.

[Essex Exile]

If one has a Non-0 visa based on marriage, does it state on the visa that this is why you qualified for said visa?

Furthermore, what else qualifys a person to apply for a NON-0? We know they are no longer generally available not even in Europe, having children here without being married doesn't qualify you, if you are retired you would be on an extension of stay and then you have the education visa. So what else except for being married allows you to apply for a NON-O?

[RTH10260]

I'm still waiting for reports of people being turned away from the airports - the land borders are an obvious target if you are looking to catch visa runners. I also wonder if the Immi officer who gave terryp a hard time would be prepared to do so if he had a line of a hundred or so tourists fresh off a flight behind him. When this hits the airports - even in the current lowest of low seasons - it wont just be TVers complaining.

Slightly off topic, but bear with me, please.

Good point. The implications of turning someone away from an airport are much more onerous than turning someone away at a ground crossing. The airport "arriver" has to be flown out (and at whose expense if there is a visa?)

It would also be good to know if the airlines start tightening up on who they let on the plane, because they're required to pay for repatriation (plus a hefty fine) if the "arriver" gets turned away at immigration because of dodgy paperwork.

I suspect airline entries may be a better choice than ground entries- until we start to hear otherwise.

I guess also that those arriving by plane have generally a "better profile" considering the spend more for air fare than the land visa runner will, and may expect to bring more to Thai economics.

[khwaibah]

If one has a Non-0 visa based on marriage, does it state on the visa that this is why you qualified for said visa?

Furthermore, what else qualifys a person to apply for a NON-0? We know they are no longer generally available not even in Europe, having children here without being married doesn't qualify you, if you are retired you would be on an extension of stay and then you have the education visa. So what else except for being married allows you to apply for a NON-O?

Australia

Eligibility Requirements:

• Applicants must be at least 50 years old or above upon submission of application.
• With no criminal record and would not instigate security threats in Thailand.
• Applicants must be a legitimate resident or citizen of Australia
• Does not possess highly contagious diseases such as leprosy, tuberculosis and other illness mentioned in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535)
• Will not be seeking for employment in Thailand.
• Must be allowed to enter Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

If one has a Non-0 visa based on marriage, does it state on the visa that this is why you qualified for said visa?

Furthermore, what else qualifys a person to apply for a NON-0? We know they are no longer generally available not even in Europe, having children here without being married doesn't qualify you, if you are retired you would be on an extension of stay and then you have the education visa. So what else except for being married allows you to apply for a NON-O?

Marriage to a Thai, having a Thai child, being 50 or over, being the family member of a person living here, working as a volunteer or anything else that an embassy or consulate deems that fits under the non-o category.

[Essex Exile]

It may be worth remembering that those on a NON-O based on marriage can, I believe, extend your stay at any immigration by 60 das as long as you take the wife with you? This would mean only having to leave the country every 150 days.

[RTH10260]

So you cant be in Thailand as a Tourist for 10 years? why not?

You are not prohibited to come every year as a tourist, up to 180 days within the year. Else you are not a tourist (temporary visitor) but considered a long term stayer aka resident.

[ubonjoe]

If one has a Non-0 visa based on marriage, does it state on the visa that this is why you qualified for said visa?

Furthermore, what else qualifys a person to apply for a NON-0? We know they are no longer generally available not even in Europe, having children here without being married doesn't qualify you, if you are retired you would be on an extension of stay and then you have the education visa. So what else except for being married allows you to apply for a NON-O?

Australia

Eligibility Requirements:

• Applicants must be at least 50 years old or above upon submission of application.
• With no criminal record and would not instigate security threats in Thailand.
• Applicants must be a legitimate resident or citizen of Australia
• Does not possess highly contagious diseases such as leprosy, tuberculosis and other illness mentioned in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535)
• Will not be seeking for employment in Thailand.
• Must be allowed to enter Thailand.

Those are the requirements to get a OA visa.not an ordinary non-o visa,

[ubonjoe]

So you cant be in Thailand as a Tourist for 10 years? why not?

You are not prohibited to come every year as a tourist, up to 180 days within the year. Else you are not a tourist (temporary visitor) but considered a long term stayer aka resident.

There is no rule that say you cannot be a tourist for more than 180 days a year as a tourist or any other kind of visa.