Long term overstay on NonB - failure to cancel visa

[Mr00Farang]

Hi Folks

I'm in a pickle. New pending regulations got me worried and its time to act ASAP.

I've been here for many years. Now on my third passport, first few years were tourist visas and 30 day entry stamps. Passport was bulging with Cambodian and Lao visas.

Later years I found jobs that usually last one or two years. Normally, when the job finished I would just stay until the last day of the NonB stamp, regardless of the termination date ....and just go on my merry way out of the country and get a tourist visa. No problem, no question about cancelled visa and last day of employment. Did that three times between 2007 and last time in 2011.

But on the last trip to the Lao border in 2012, they said

Hey MrFarang, you didn't cancel this visa so I can't stamp you out. .

What'dya mean mate? This visa still shows months before expiry....

But it still has to be cancelled before you can leave. Go to the immigration office and cancel the visa.

Just right down the street in NongKai at the immigration office, they say:

OK, what was your last date of employment?

I lied: just a few days ago, I replied.

OK then, have the company fax a letter to our fax number.

Oh shit, I'm busted for overstaying 50 odd days and lying to the immigration.

So I just left.

I went home to Bangkok figuring that if I have to pay 20,000 baht for overstay, I might as well get my money's worth.

Maybe another few months.

Reports on Thaivisa abound that its no problem as long as you don't get in an accident or scuffle.

Anyway, that's how I came to become a two year plus overstay farang.

Robin Hood as Thais call themselves when they become illegal in foreign countries (because Robin Hood is hard to find?).

I know it might change soon and I could well find myself jailed and banned. And I'm ready to face the music.

So question:

So now my visa clearly expired more than a year ago. No 90 day reports either. Plainly obvious long term overstay.

If I go to the airport or the border with the money in hand wil they still send me to the immigration office to "cancel my visa?"

Will i go through licketysplit or will I have to call my former employer's HR and ask for a fax?

Does anyone believe that this can be done at the border?

Any advice from farangs who did this recently is well appreciated.

Here's a side note: I've been to airports, banks and the land office to do business and never has a soul looked at the visa page.

Last transaction in the land office, I nver showed my passport, just signed copies of the front page.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Mr00Farang

[Tomtomtom69]

Has your previous company handed in and cancelled your work permit or not? I think if the date had not yet been reached and you have an obliging company, you would have been able to save yourself - they could have written a letter stating that your last date of employment is say 2 weeks from now, but they would need to show proof of paying you every month since the date you were actually terminated or when your severance ended. You could have struck a deal whereby you paid them that money back in cash after they transfer it to your account, perhaps with interest to satisfy immigration's minimum salary requirements. This is if you were on an extension of stay based on employment as you say and your permitted to remain stamp were still valid.

I don't know what to suggest now that your permitted to remain stamp expired though, because in that case your employer's letter wouldn't help anymore.

In that case just rock up at any border with the cash and leave. Bring all your luggage or at least what you can't afford to leave behind. However, you should be able to get a tourist visa to come back, although a new passport would probably look better. Some say it's better to fly out than leave from a land border. I have never overstayed but I think as long as you go to the border via private vehicle, it's no different than going to the airport, might even be a bit quicker, who knows. It also pays to select your border crossing in that case though, I recommend the Lao borders as they have few checkpoints along the way - don't go to the Burmese ones, while some of the Cambodian ones have a lot of military checkpoints at the moment but are generally fine.

[ubonjoe]

Just leave and pay the max fine of 20k baht fine on departure from the country.

Since your extension expired long ago they will probably count the days on over stay from then.

Be sure you do it soon there will be new rules coming into affect that would end up with you being blacklisted.

[al007]

The sound advice is get out while you can with only 20,000 fine, there is no history of any blacklisting at the moment

Maybe try to fly out better than being caught at a border inland checkpoint, and the hasstle that could involve, if your passport were checked, I would mention I have been through these check points 25/30 times over the last six years and never had my passport checked

Then get a new passport and return on proper visas and extensions, and watch the rules they are not so onerous

It looks as if the new regulations will seriously stop offenders returning, I believe they are serious and not before time

Good luck, there are many who are ignoring these warnings, doing nothing and risk being blacklisted in the future, not good if this is your home

[Suradit69]

Reports on Thaivisa abound that its no problem as long as you don't get in an accident or scuffle.

"no problem"

Which is one major reason why the crackdown has cometh.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Suradit69

[NanLaew]

...and keep in mind that there is recent evidence of people with a passport full of border-bounce stamps are getting denied re-entry to Thailand at southern land border crossings DESPITE being issued a new TR visa at a regional Thai Consulate.

You are making a commitment to pay 20k to clear the immediate overstay issue ONLY but you must consider the risk of being denied coming back regardless of having a TR visa.

[Mario2008]

If he doesn't clear his overstay, he will even have more problems when the new rules on overstay kick in. Than it is denied entry for sure.

[natway09]

I would plan in the next 2 weeks to get your house in order here (whatever needed done), stick 20th in your kick, book a flight (not to a country with a land border), enjoy your (at least) 1 week holiday there & we will see you on your return for a coldee

Good Luck

[natway09]

Oh Sorry, but why i say go soon, is that they may start checking tax returns have been finalized for anyone that has worked here, before letting you leave. (yes, that is the law.In fact there is a special tax form to fill out & get signed & stamped by tax office ), but have not heard of being used for many years. But guess what??

[John1thru10]

Yeah, it is extremely likely that you're gonna face some real issues when you exit. They have indicated that any overstay of 90 days or more will be blacklisted. And, in that regard, my personal feeling is that you should basically count on that moment as the day you say goodbye to Thailand. Even if you are not 'officially' blacklisted on your next exit, it is likely you will find difficulties re-entering again, with a noticeable overstay in your passport.

Have your most important things with you, and think of it as the day you say goodbye to Thailand.

Also, exit through the airport, and don't plan to turn around and come back. It doesn't matter what someone else says about how they had no problems at this or that landborder, the possibility of being stopped before reaching that border is something you do NOT want to play a game with. There is so much pressure on police and agents at this time, that you should truly expect the unexpected, and be safe.

Edited July 11, 2014 by John1thru10

[John1thru10]

I would plan in the next 2 weeks to get your house in order here (whatever needed done), stick 20th in your kick, book a flight (not to a country with a land border), enjoy your (at least) 1 week holiday there & we will see you on your return for a coldee

Good Luck

I'm sorry, but at this time, I seriously doubt your expectations will be reality.

Edited July 11, 2014 by John1thru10

[Tomtomtom69]

Oh Sorry, but why i say go soon, is that they may start checking tax returns have been finalized for anyone that has worked here, before letting you leave. (yes, that is the law.In fact there is a special tax form to fill out & get signed & stamped by tax office ), but have not heard of being used for many years. But guess what??

Nah I think that ended many years ago and hasn't been mentioned on arrival forms for years. I'm also quite sure employers take out tax automatically and then you have to file a tax return to reclaim any tax owed to you, not the other way round as you claim (maybe it was different back in 1989 or whenever). Even though I didn't work long enough at my previous company to be eligible to pay tax as my income was still within the tax-free threshold (I was there just 2 months) tax was still deducted from my second pay packet and now I will probably have to wait until next year to reclaim it. Lucky for me I photocopied all the documents given to me at the time my visa was cancelled, even the ID cards of the directors in case I need them at the tax office (but probably won't).

[Tomtomtom69]

I would plan in the next 2 weeks to get your house in order here (whatever needed done), stick 20th in your kick, book a flight (not to a country with a land border), enjoy your (at least) 1 week holiday there & we will see you on your return for a coldee

Good Luck

First of all, there's nothing wrong with flying to a neighboring country and no rule that one needs to fly further away, especially if voluntarily leaving after an overstay. The OP can go to wherever he wants and in fact, if he is going to attempt to return, going to a neighboring country for a new TV will be the cheapest and most practical option. He could choose to go back to his home country, obtain a new passport and then come back in the future, but by going to a neighboring country, perhaps even applying for a new passport in that country and then coming back to Thailand on a TV he should probably be OK before the proposed new overstay rules kick in.

[Water Buffalo]

I had no idea we had to cancel our own visas. I have been on a Non-Imm ED extension for 3 years (studying at uni). I plan to leave soon. Will i have to cancel that or just leave?

[ubonjoe]

I had no idea we had to cancel our own visas. I have been on a Non-Imm ED extension for 3 years (studying at uni). I plan to leave soon. Will i have to cancel that or just leave?

Getting stopped from leaving for not canceling an extension is a rarity and never at an airport that I know of.

With an extension based upon education it is not really necessary to cancel your extension before leaving.

For an extension based upon working it is different because there are other things that come into play. There could be contractual obligations, the work permit cancellation and etc.

[Tomtomtom69]

I had no idea we had to cancel our own visas. I have been on a Non-Imm ED extension for 3 years (studying at uni). I plan to leave soon. Will i have to cancel that or just leave?

Getting stopped from leaving for not canceling an extension is a rarity and never at an airport that I know of.

With an extension based upon education it is not really necessary to cancel your extension before leaving.

For an extension based upon working it is different because there are other things that come into play. There could be contractual obligations, the work permit cancellation and etc.

Interesting story. A couple of weeks ago a group of mainly Filipino teachers (and apparently some Germans too) went to Nong Khai the day before their non-B visas were due to expire. They were heading for Vientiane to get new non-Bs issued. Apparently they got arrested and were put in IDC for a few days before they could be bailed out.

Strange story, but how can you explain that one? Unless the person who told me that story was missing some information, but he claimed they were in possession of valid work permits. They didn't cancel their non-Bs though, so maybe they were on overstay and didn't know it? But since they didn't get terminated and were continuing with the same company I find the whole thing a bit fishy. Also, why didn't they get an extension at immigration?

[John1thru10]

I had no idea we had to cancel our own visas. I have been on a Non-Imm ED extension for 3 years (studying at uni). I plan to leave soon. Will i have to cancel that or just leave?

Getting stopped from leaving for not canceling an extension is a rarity and never at an airport that I know of.

With an extension based upon education it is not really necessary to cancel your extension before leaving.

For an extension based upon working it is different because there are other things that come into play. There could be contractual obligations, the work permit cancellation and etc.

Interesting story. A couple of weeks ago a group of mainly Filipino teachers (and apparently some Germans too) went to Nong Khai the day before their non-B visas were due to expire. They were heading for Vientiane to get new non-Bs issued. Apparently they got arrested and were put in IDC for a few days before they could be bailed out.

Strange story, but how can you explain that one? Unless the person who told me that story was missing some information, but he claimed they were in possession of valid work permits. They didn't cancel their non-Bs though, so maybe they were on overstay and didn't know it? But since they didn't get terminated and were continuing with the same company I find the whole thing a bit fishy. Also, why didn't they get an extension at immigration?

If it's true as described, it might be an example of officers being overzealous - which is also a possibility during this time. It could have been because of a misinterpretation on the part of an officer. You know Thailand..instead of one official publicly saying another official is wrong, they'll tend to go the very long way around.

I read a story the other week (a recent story) outside of TVforum, and in a British newspaper. A British man who had been (legally) in Thailand for a very long time, with a work permit, let his work permit expire by I think 3 months. And, got a contracting job, beating a Thai guy out in the bidding in the process. Well, the Thai man reported him for revenge, and the British guy was arrested. He went to court, and paid the fine, and as he turned to exit, they arrested him again for 'still' being in Thailand. After that he spent 2 weeks or something in immigration prison, and wasn't allowed to leave until he'd booked a flight, and had the money to pay then for a 1 week overstay. Supposedly, he also had to bribe the police to let him out of the cell to arrange a new ticket. This is what the article stated, anyway. Finally some friends from England arranged him everything, and altoghether, it set him back something like 2,500 pounds in fines. Also, I learned from that article that supposedly Thai immigration doesn't feed prisoners unless they have money to pay for it, as well. It sounds like the guy really went through a nightmare, whatever all the details really were.

Edited July 11, 2014 by John1thru10

[SiggiCM]

I had no idea we had to cancel our own visas. I have been on a Non-Imm ED extension for 3 years (studying at uni). I plan to leave soon. Will i have to cancel that or just leave?

Getting stopped from leaving for not canceling an extension is a rarity and never at an airport that I know of.

With an extension based upon education it is not really necessary to cancel your extension before leaving.

For an extension based upon working it is different because there are other things that come into play. There could be contractual obligations, the work permit cancellation and etc.

never read such a bullshit before, you can leave the country whenever you want, you dont have to cancel any Visa, the Visa may be will automaticly canceled if no reentry inside, but for this i am not sure, but you cant stop people from traveling, so if you work in thailand for 10 years you are never allowed to travel?

Stop putting this rumors here, all the people become crazy they believe everything on TV.

FOR ALL HERE: you can leave the country all the time if you have a valid passport!

[mrtoad]

I had no idea we had to cancel our own visas. I have been on a Non-Imm ED extension for 3 years (studying at uni). I plan to leave soon. Will i have to cancel that or just leave?

Getting stopped from leaving for not canceling an extension is a rarity and never at an airport that I know of.

With an extension based upon education it is not really necessary to cancel your extension before leaving.

For an extension based upon working it is different because there are other things that come into play. There could be contractual obligations, the work permit cancellation and etc.

never read such a bullshit before, you can leave the country whenever you want, you dont have to cancel any Visa, the Visa may be will automaticly canceled if no reentry inside, but for this i am not sure, but you cant stop people from traveling, so if you work in thailand for 10 years you are never allowed to travel?

Stop putting this rumors here, all the people become crazy they believe everything on TV.

FOR ALL HERE: you can leave the country all the time if you have a valid passport!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but yes they can ask to see your employment termination letter if you are on extension of stay. I got asked some years back, I didn't have if and they gave me a hard time, but let me through in the end.

[Mr00Farang]

I am the original poster who overstayed nearly two years.

I got my Non-Imm-O documents in order and booked a flight.

I did not get a tongue lashing but I did get a brief lecture on futurie developments. One nice lady officer made me promise that I won't do it again.

I kept my expression cool and contrite. Otherwise we would have probably all been laughing and smiling. They said they are getting more overstays this month but not alot of longtime overstays.

I paid 20,000 for 486 days.

They use a calendar and calculator to count to the exact days and write that number on your passport page exit stamp. They did not ask when I stopped employment; if they had, then my 486 days may well be counted at about 725.

I'm in Phnom Penh and just submitted for a new O visa. The intake staff was quite efficient and thumbed through my passport pages but I'm not sure if she read or noticed anything. She just took my documents and gave me the receipt, pick up scheduled third day hence.

With any luck I'll be on the flight back to the Big Mango at the end of the week with 90 days permitted.

I feel some sense of shame for blatantly abusing the system; maybe its examples like mine that ruin it for others.

I often tell Thais that visas for Thais to the USA are so difficuult because so many Thais violate their status and work illegally until they find a spouse.

Meanwhile, I'll have A Cambodia beer, some fish amok and a taste of sweet Khmer honey.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Mr00Farang

[Mr00Farang]

Visa was granted. As routinely as ever.

My O visa application to the Phnom Penh consulate included the following:

Application and photo - 1 application only

Wife's ID copy and signed

Marriage certificate copy

Birth certificate copy

House registration copy

Map to the house

Pictures of family b&w copy

US Embassy affidavit of income - original

(I also had an original bank letter, but they handed it back to me upon application and since I didn't have a copy with me they said its OK, never mind)

They also did not want my medical exam letter.

Application Monday morning, retrieve passport Thursday afternoon between 3 and 4pm.

An agent that hangs around the Embassy said he could get "next day service" for $70 fee. Sometimes same day.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Mr00Farang

[Mr00Farang]

MrFarang can chill now at home in Thailand for at least 90 day.