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Israel prepares for ground military operation, 98 dead in Gaza Strip airstrikes

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kblaze Gold Member

kblaze

Posted
Posted

To some Israel can never be wrong, even when it slaughters innocent children playing on a beach.

 

From the first day of school to the last, the "defense" mantra is repeated so often that it becomes their whole being. It becomes not just the go-to catch phrase, it becomes a smokescreen for anything Israel does to its neighbors, a blanket term that serves to reduce the complexities of the whole occupation to a simple word that no one can dare question. I can't tell you how many times I heard the exact phrase "What, you don't think Israel should have the right to defend itself?" in debates.

 

Its akin to the US' "fighting terrorism" mantra, in that it gives a free pass to whatever one thinks "defense" should be.

 

Its in the freaking name of their army for crying out loud. 

  • Like 1
dexterm Gold Member

dexterm

Posted
Posted

 

Israel got a rather large Arab minority (20%) with full
civic rights and political representation - seems a bit far fetched to use the Apartheid tag, even if it scores some points.


Far fetched? Ridiculous would be more like it. 

 

 

It appears the editor of one of Israel's major newspapers Haaretz  disagrees with you.

 

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/citizenship-law-makes-israel-an-apartheid-state-1.248635

boomerangutang Platinum Member

boomerangutang

Posted
Posted

Fire rockets at Israel = get punished.

civilians hanging with combatants - stand the chance of getting harmed. That includes family members hanging with brothers/husbands/sons and also people who roam/play/hang out near places where militants shoot rockets.

In sum, If you hang out with or near Palestinian combatants, you stand a chance of getting harmed.

 
Foreign journalists who have been staying in the hotel across the road because it was in a non combatant area, said in 2 weeks they had seen no Hamas activity there at all.
 
Do you equally apply then this warped logic to Israeli children playing in a war zone who are murdered by missiles recklessly, indifferently, deliberately fired into areas where there may be civilian casualties?
 
Strange indeed to blame the victim and not the person who pulls the trigger.


Militants can put a rocket launcher in a Toyota p.u., drive wherever (even in front of a hotel, or by a beach). Then launch and drive off.
It's a war. War is hell. It's rare when innocents don't get harmed in an armed conflict. Sad.

I once worked at a summer camp (near Lynchburg Virginia) as a counselor, where Israeli and Palestinian kids played side by side. I've seen how heavily indoctrinated kids can get. Parents and teachers are nearly as much to blame for the problems in the M.E. - as the mullahs and firebrands who incite young men to harm others. Hate, vengence, vindictiveness are heavily drilled in to kids' minds - particularly Palestinian boys.
simple1 Star Member

simple1

Posted
Posted

 

 

Fire rockets at Israel = get punished.

civilians hanging with combatants - stand the chance of getting harmed. That includes family members hanging with brothers/husbands/sons and also people who roam/play/hang out near places where militants shoot rockets.

In sum, If you hang out with or near Palestinian combatants, you stand a chance of getting harmed.

 
Foreign journalists who have been staying in the hotel across the road because it was in a non combatant area, said in 2 weeks they had seen no Hamas activity there at all.
 
Do you equally apply then this warped logic to Israeli children playing in a war zone who are murdered by missiles recklessly, indifferently, deliberately fired into areas where there may be civilian casualties?
 
Strange indeed to blame the victim and not the person who pulls the trigger.

 


Militants can put a rocket launcher in a Toyota p.u., drive wherever (even in front of a hotel, or by a beach). Then launch and drive off.
It's a war. War is hell. It's rare when innocents don't get harmed in an armed conflict. Sad.

I once worked at a summer camp (near Lynchburg Virginia) as a counselor, where Israeli and Palestinian kids played side by side. I've seen how heavily indoctrinated kids can get. Parents and teachers are nearly as much to blame for the problems in the M.E. - as the mullahs and firebrands who incite young men to harm others. Hate, vengence, vindictiveness are heavily drilled in to kids' minds - particularly Palestinian boys.

 

 

off topic, but did you watch the documentary on the Israeli / Palestinian Youth Orchestra - very poignant
 

dexterm Gold Member

dexterm

Posted
Posted

 

 

Fire rockets at Israel = get punished.

civilians hanging with combatants - stand the chance of getting harmed. That includes family members hanging with brothers/husbands/sons and also people who roam/play/hang out near places where militants shoot rockets.

In sum, If you hang out with or near Palestinian combatants, you stand a chance of getting harmed.

 
Foreign journalists who have been staying in the hotel across the road because it was in a non combatant area, said in 2 weeks they had seen no Hamas activity there at all.
 
Do you equally apply then this warped logic to Israeli children playing in a war zone who are murdered by missiles recklessly, indifferently, deliberately fired into areas where there may be civilian casualties?
 
Strange indeed to blame the victim and not the person who pulls the trigger.

 


Militants can put a rocket launcher in a Toyota p.u., drive wherever (even in front of a hotel, or by a beach). Then launch and drive off.
It's a war. War is hell. It's rare when innocents don't get harmed in an armed conflict. Sad.

I once worked at a summer camp (near Lynchburg Virginia) as a counselor, where Israeli and Palestinian kids played side by side. I've seen how heavily indoctrinated kids can get. Parents and teachers are nearly as much to blame for the problems in the M.E. - as the mullahs and firebrands who incite young men to harm others. Hate, vengence, vindictiveness are heavily drilled in to kids' minds - particularly Palestinian boys.

 

 

Wow, that’s quite a few hypotheticals.

 

There obviously must have been a Hamas vehicle there, even though none of the international journalists noticed it, because of course Israel never makes mistakes.

 

And if the children were older they would probably have been Hamas anyway, so they deserved to die. Does that warped logic apply to Israeli children too..better to murder them now before they are old enough to join the IDF.

 

Strange reasoning indeed.

 

Children playing hide and seek on a beach are children. If the Israelis made a mistake, simply admit it.

  • Like 1
johna Gold Member

johna

Posted
Posted

 

 

Fire rockets at Israel = get punished.

civilians hanging with combatants - stand the chance of getting harmed. That includes family members hanging with brothers/husbands/sons and also people who roam/play/hang out near places where militants shoot rockets.

In sum, If you hang out with or near Palestinian combatants, you stand a chance of getting harmed.

 
Foreign journalists who have been staying in the hotel across the road because it was in a non combatant area, said in 2 weeks they had seen no Hamas activity there at all.
 
Do you equally apply then this warped logic to Israeli children playing in a war zone who are murdered by missiles recklessly, indifferently, deliberately fired into areas where there may be civilian casualties?
 
Strange indeed to blame the victim and not the person who pulls the trigger.

 


Militants can put a rocket launcher in a Toyota p.u., drive wherever (even in front of a hotel, or by a beach). Then launch and drive off.
It's a war. War is hell. It's rare when innocents don't get harmed in an armed conflict. Sad.

I once worked at a summer camp (near Lynchburg Virginia) as a counselor, where Israeli and Palestinian kids played side by side. I've seen how heavily indoctrinated kids can get. Parents and teachers are nearly as much to blame for the problems in the M.E. - as the mullahs and firebrands who incite young men to harm others. Hate, vengence, vindictiveness are heavily drilled in to kids' minds - particularly Palestinian boys.

 

The IDF can fire rockets from land, air and sea, and then drive off, war in this case is hell for the 4 children playing on a beach.

 

Of course in your universe Israeli parents would never teach their children to hate or seek vengeance, right???

ggold Gold Member

ggold

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

Fire rockets at Israel = get punished.

civilians hanging with combatants - stand the chance of getting harmed. That includes family members hanging with brothers/husbands/sons and also people who roam/play/hang out near places where militants shoot rockets.

In sum, If you hang out with or near Palestinian combatants, you stand a chance of getting harmed.

 
Foreign journalists who have been staying in the hotel across the road because it was in a non combatant area, said in 2 weeks they had seen no Hamas activity there at all.
 
Do you equally apply then this warped logic to Israeli children playing in a war zone who are murdered by missiles recklessly, indifferently, deliberately fired into areas where there may be civilian casualties?
 
Strange indeed to blame the victim and not the person who pulls the trigger.

 


Militants can put a rocket launcher in a Toyota p.u., drive wherever (even in front of a hotel, or by a beach). Then launch and drive off.
It's a war. War is hell. It's rare when innocents don't get harmed in an armed conflict. Sad.

I once worked at a summer camp (near Lynchburg Virginia) as a counselor, where Israeli and Palestinian kids played side by side. I've seen how heavily indoctrinated kids can get. Parents and teachers are nearly as much to blame for the problems in the M.E. - as the mullahs and firebrands who incite young men to harm others. Hate, vengence, vindictiveness are heavily drilled in to kids' minds - particularly Palestinian boys.

 

The IDF can fire rockets from land, air and sea, and then drive off, war in this case is hell for the 4 children playing on a beach.

 

Of course in your universe Israeli parents would never teach their children to hate or seek vengeance, right???

 

 

Hamas do fire rockets from behind women and children, and then drive off to do the same in another part of Gaza. Even Egypt say Hamas are wrong!

 

Of course in you universe you must know Hamas do teach their children to hate and seek revenge. Right??? 

 

dexterm Gold Member

dexterm

Posted
Posted
 
>> Even Egypt say Hamas are wrong!
 
>>Of course in you universe you must know Hamas do teach their children to hate and seek revenge. Right??? 
 
...No need to be rude.
 
Well, the US and Israeli puppet, Egyptian dictator Sisi would say that wouldn't he?
kblaze Gold Member

kblaze

Posted
Posted

Gazans are more scared of Hamas than the IDF

Analysis: Islamist organizations in Gaza are still negotiating over negotiations, while in Israel, defense chiefs are seeing start of unrest against Hamas

 

 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4544714,00.html

 

 

Ok. First, lets assume the opinion piece you link above is correct, and it could be, I don't know I haven't surveyed all Gazans. 

 

What that means is that Gazans are basically being held hostage by Hamas right? (they can't just leave Gaza...talk to Israel/Egypt about that)

 

So what's happening is Israel is killing the hostages to get to the hostage taker? And how many? well, given that the civilian casualty rate is 75%+, that means they are killing 3 hostages for every 1 hostage-taker. (and we aren't even talking about injuries).

 

one more thing; of course Egypt hates Hamas, they are related to the Muslim Brotherhood. So now doesn't it seem even more ridiculous that they are being asked to mediate by Israel/the West?

ggold Gold Member

ggold

Posted
Posted

 

Gazans are more scared of Hamas than the IDF

Analysis: Islamist organizations in Gaza are still negotiating over negotiations, while in Israel, defense chiefs are seeing start of unrest against Hamas

 

 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4544714,00.html

 

 

Ok. First, lets assume the opinion piece you link above is correct, and it could be, I don't know I haven't surveyed all Gazans. 

 

What that means is that Gazans are basically being held hostage by Hamas right? (they can't just leave Gaza...talk to Israel/Egypt about that)

 

So what's happening is Israel is killing the hostages to get to the hostage taker? And how many? well, given that the civilian casualty rate is 75%+, that means they are killing 3 hostages for every 1 hostage-taker. (and we aren't even talking about injuries).

 

one more thing; of course Egypt hates Hamas, they are related to the Muslim Brotherhood. So now doesn't it seem even more ridiculous that they are being asked to mediate by Israel/the West?

 

 

Why should the Palestinians leave Gaza if they don't like what Hamas are doing to Gaza. Why don't they do what the Syrians did against Assad?

 

It is easy to say Israel are killing the hostages to get at the hostage takers, That just negates what hamas are doing to take hostages in the first place!

 

How many Palestinians were/are being killed by rocket misfires by Hamas? Israel is investigating the deaths of the 4 kids. But what if it was actually a hamas rocket that malfunctioned and landed on the beach killing those kids? where is the proof it was Israeli shells that killed them? Just because there are Israeli naval forces doesn't mean they fired on the beach. 

 

If it is ridiculous for Egypt to try and mediate with Hamas, How ridiculous is it to expect Israel to negotiate with Turkey, for example! considering the comments these last few days! Or any other Arab negotiator? the reality is even with the peace with Egypt and Israel. The Egyptians don't like Israel. All Arab league nations hate Israel even if they offer normalisation and peace. 

 

And again. This isn't just about Israel. Egypt and Abbas  also have no real liking of Hamas. They would be happy if Hamas did not exists then Abbas would be able to make a peace with Israel.   

johna Gold Member

johna

Posted
Posted

 

 

Gazans are more scared of Hamas than the IDF

Analysis: Islamist organizations in Gaza are still negotiating over negotiations, while in Israel, defense chiefs are seeing start of unrest against Hamas

 

 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4544714,00.html

 

 

Ok. First, lets assume the opinion piece you link above is correct, and it could be, I don't know I haven't surveyed all Gazans. 

 

What that means is that Gazans are basically being held hostage by Hamas right? (they can't just leave Gaza...talk to Israel/Egypt about that)

 

So what's happening is Israel is killing the hostages to get to the hostage taker? And how many? well, given that the civilian casualty rate is 75%+, that means they are killing 3 hostages for every 1 hostage-taker. (and we aren't even talking about injuries).

 

one more thing; of course Egypt hates Hamas, they are related to the Muslim Brotherhood. So now doesn't it seem even more ridiculous that they are being asked to mediate by Israel/the West?

 

 

Why should the Palestinians leave Gaza if they don't like what Hamas are doing to Gaza. Why don't they do what the Syrians did against Assad?

 

It is easy to say Israel are killing the hostages to get at the hostage takers, That just negates what hamas are doing to take hostages in the first place!

 

How many Palestinians were/are being killed by rocket misfires by Hamas? Israel is investigating the deaths of the 4 kids. But what if it was actually a hamas rocket that malfunctioned and landed on the beach killing those kids? where is the proof it was Israeli shells that killed them? Just because there are Israeli naval forces doesn't mean they fired on the beach. 

 

If it is ridiculous for Egypt to try and mediate with Hamas, How ridiculous is it to expect Israel to negotiate with Turkey, for example! considering the comments these last few days! Or any other Arab negotiator? the reality is even with the peace with Egypt and Israel. The Egyptians don't like Israel. All Arab league nations hate Israel even if they offer normalisation and peace. 

 

And again. This isn't just about Israel. Egypt and Abbas  also have no real liking of Hamas. They would be happy if Hamas did not exists then Abbas would be able to make a peace with Israel.   

 

yeah you'r probably right, these kids were killed by the Hamas Navy, and probably a lot of Palestinian kids are being killed when Hamas rockets land on the illegal Palestinian settlements they have built in the occupied east bank of Israel.

ggold Gold Member

ggold

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

Gazans are more scared of Hamas than the IDF

Analysis: Islamist organizations in Gaza are still negotiating over negotiations, while in Israel, defense chiefs are seeing start of unrest against Hamas

 

 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4544714,00.html

 

 

Ok. First, lets assume the opinion piece you link above is correct, and it could be, I don't know I haven't surveyed all Gazans. 

 

What that means is that Gazans are basically being held hostage by Hamas right? (they can't just leave Gaza...talk to Israel/Egypt about that)

 

So what's happening is Israel is killing the hostages to get to the hostage taker? And how many? well, given that the civilian casualty rate is 75%+, that means they are killing 3 hostages for every 1 hostage-taker. (and we aren't even talking about injuries).

 

one more thing; of course Egypt hates Hamas, they are related to the Muslim Brotherhood. So now doesn't it seem even more ridiculous that they are being asked to mediate by Israel/the West?

 

 

Why should the Palestinians leave Gaza if they don't like what Hamas are doing to Gaza. Why don't they do what the Syrians did against Assad?

 

It is easy to say Israel are killing the hostages to get at the hostage takers, That just negates what hamas are doing to take hostages in the first place!

 

How many Palestinians were/are being killed by rocket misfires by Hamas? Israel is investigating the deaths of the 4 kids. But what if it was actually a hamas rocket that malfunctioned and landed on the beach killing those kids? where is the proof it was Israeli shells that killed them? Just because there are Israeli naval forces doesn't mean they fired on the beach. 

 

If it is ridiculous for Egypt to try and mediate with Hamas, How ridiculous is it to expect Israel to negotiate with Turkey, for example! considering the comments these last few days! Or any other Arab negotiator? the reality is even with the peace with Egypt and Israel. The Egyptians don't like Israel. All Arab league nations hate Israel even if they offer normalisation and peace. 

 

And again. This isn't just about Israel. Egypt and Abbas  also have no real liking of Hamas. They would be happy if Hamas did not exists then Abbas would be able to make a peace with Israel.   

 

yeah you'r probably right, these kids were killed by the Hamas Navy, and probably a lot of Palestinian kids are being killed when Hamas rockets land on the illegal Palestinian settlements they have built in the occupied east bank of Israel.

 

 

It is fact That 100 Hamas rockets fired landed in Gaza missing what ever it was hamas were aiming for. How many Palestinians men women and children have they killed?

 

Pakboong Gold Member

Pakboong

Posted
Posted

Hamas can stop with the rockets now. They got their perfect propaganda pictures. Job done. If anyone really thinks it is Israeli policy to deliberately murder young boys at the beach, I've got a bridge to sell you. 

 

They may actually realize that if they do stop the rockets, all they can get out of it is what their West Bank brothers have and that ain't much incentive.
 

Jingthing Legendary Member

Jingthing

Posted
Posted

 

Hamas can stop with the rockets now. They got their perfect propaganda pictures. Job done. If anyone really thinks it is Israeli policy to deliberately murder young boys at the beach, I've got a bridge to sell you. 

 

They may actually realize that if they do stop the rockets, all they can get out of it is what their West Bank brothers have and that ain't much incentive.
 

 

Who is they? Hamas leadership or the people of Gaza? Because I don't believe the majority of the people of Gaza actually support these tactics. I do believe the majority of the people of Gaza are extremely anti-Israel, but I don't believe the majority support the insane Hamas tactics that result in so much suffering for their own people. Is there a different path that might help improve things for the people there? Probably. Obviously, this isn't it. 

ggold Gold Member

ggold

Posted
Posted

 

Hamas can stop with the rockets now. They got their perfect propaganda pictures. Job done. If anyone really thinks it is Israeli policy to deliberately murder young boys at the beach, I've got a bridge to sell you. 

 

They may actually realize that if they do stop the rockets, all they can get out of it is what their West Bank brothers have and that ain't much incentive.
 

 

 

I don't think their west bank brothers are interested in sharing anything with hamas. The PA have been holding back funds from Gaza, because of hamas.
 

mrtoad Star Member

mrtoad

Posted
Posted

Sad that anyone that criticizes Israels policies towards Palestinians or other ME countries is called an anti-semite. I will leave it at that, as I quite like posting on TV.

  • Like 2
Jingthing Legendary Member

Jingthing

Posted
Posted

Sad that anyone that criticizes Israels policies towards Palestinians or other ME countries is called an anti-semite. I will leave it at that, as I quite like posting on TV.

That is false. Nobody has said that. You drop a bomb like that and suggest it is the truth, but it is not.  Many Israelis have plenty of criticisms of Israeli policies. There is plenty of legitimate criticism of Israeli policies that is not motivated by antisemitism. However, much of it is, and people quite often leave strong CLUES where they are coming from ... like actual Hamas propaganda that is deeply anti-semitic. 

 

There are some grey areas that are open for debate. For example, many people including me think that calling Israelis the same as Nazis is generally motivated by anti-semitism. Another example, the tendency of much of the world to obsess about faults of Israel while ignoring worse faults of a number of other countries. I can see those areas continuing to be hot areas of debate ... but if reasoned criticism is made, without playing Nazi equivalency games, without showing pictures of ugly looking Jews swallowing the world like an octopus, then there is no good reason to assume antisemitic intent. 

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up-country_sinclair Gold Member

up-country_sinclair

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
Bill Clinton warns Israel on 'isolating itself from world opinion' 

 

 New Delhi (AFP) - Former US president Bill Clinton has warned Israel about "isolating itself from world opinion" due to repeated conflicts in Gaza after four children were killed on a beach in the latest violence.

http://news.yahoo.com/bill-clinton-warns-israel-isolating-itself-world-opinion-132921445.html

 

The world has had enough of the murderous Israeli aggression.  It's long past time for Israeli leaders to be brought up on war crimes charges.  If they're innocent, then let them prove it in court.

  • Like 3
Jingthing Legendary Member

Jingthing

Posted
Posted

 

Bill Clinton warns Israel on 'isolating itself from world opinion' 

 

 New Delhi (AFP) - Former US president Bill Clinton has warned Israel about "isolating itself from world opinion" due to repeated conflicts in Gaza after four children were killed on a beach in the latest violence.

http://news.yahoo.com/bill-clinton-warns-israel-isolating-itself-world-opinion-132921445.html

 

The world has had enough of the murderous Israeli aggression.  It's long past time for Israeli leaders to be brought up on war crimes charges.  If they're innocent, then let them prove it in court.

 

Hamas tactics are indeed about public relations.  

 

From your link:

 

 

"In the short to medium term, Hamas can inflict terrible public relations damage on Israel by forcing it to kill Palestinian civilians to counter Hamas," he added.

Hamas had a "strategy designed to force Israel to kill their own (Palestinian) civilians so the rest of the world will condemn them," while Israel couldn't "look like fools" by not responding to the heavy missile attacks.

 

  • Like 1
Jingthing Legendary Member

Jingthing

Posted
Posted

Finally, the Obama administration is speaking the truth about Israel:

 

The Obama administration accused Israel on Thursday of failing to do all it can to prevent civilian casualties in Gaza during cross-border attacks.

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-israel-protect-gaza-civilians-24604142
 

If people actually read the article, they will see the U.S. response to actually be very reasoned and balanced.

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