Train killing raises queries about Thai attitude to violent crimes

[Lite Beer]

LIKE IT SHARE IT!
Train killing raises queries about Thai attitude to violent crimes
Kornchanok Raksaseri
@Aim_NT

BANGKOK: -- The case of the 13-year-old girl raped and killed on a train has sparked debate, discussion and heated quarrels. One of the burning issues is the question of whether rapists deserve the death term, regardless of whether they kill their victims or not.

A slew of articles on the matter have been shared via social media platforms such as Facebook. Many are worth reading and considering.

Surapot Taweesak, a philosophy lecturer at Rajabhat Suan Dusit University, wrote about two philosophical positions. He talked of determinism where some criminals may be "programmed" by genes and environment, while others commit crime of their own free will and need to be held more responsible for their actions.

He said determinism places more focus on the cause of the crime rather than justice for the victim. However, he said that the death penalty wasn't an effective way to prevent crimes.

Yukti Mukdawijitra from the Faculty of Sociology and Anthropology at Thammasat University might have considered the idea of determinism discussed by Surapot when he wrote about the case's implications on Thai society as a whole.

He said Thailand is a society with selective morality. Mercy is given to different groups often with an uncertain rationale.

He also said women in Thai society are treated unequally and that females are doubly victimised as many observers criticise them for not protecting themselves sufficiently.

Yukti said Thai society supports violence against violent people and that Thais tend to solve problems with violence.

"When problems are seen at a personal level, it is thought that bad people must be controlled or eradicated. However, there is no talk of revamping the system and creating a new one that will be better for all the people," he wrote, adding that just applying the death penalty would not make Thai society better.

Chatchapol Kiatikajornthada, a doctor who writes books about behaviour in terms of biology, wrote a series of articles on his Facebook page discussing issues arising from the case from the view of psychologist.

He said humans are different from other animals in that they have more empathy. He said killers could be divided into three groups. The first involves conflict of interest and an imbalance in judgement that hampers their resistance to their urges. The second group kill as a result of chemicals, alcohol, drugs, and lack of sleep, stress or anger. The third group of killers murder for pleasure and have no feelings for others. These people are psychopathic or sociopathic.

He explained that these people have no sense of guilt. While psychopaths are the way they are from birth, sociopaths adapt in a reaction to what they experience in life. He then talked about the objectives of setting penalties. He said it was to maintain law and order and to exact retribution.

Meanwhile on Thai Publica, Itsakul Unahakate, a researcher at the Thailand Development Research Institute, made some observations.

He noted that while the people are calling for changes in the legal penalties, it must be kept in mind that rape with murder is different from rape without murder.

He mooted the idea that the death penalty might not prevent rape but may increase the rape with murder rate.

He wrote that surveys found that possibly up to 85 per cent of rape and victims of sexual abuse do not report the case to police and that most abusers are people close to the victims.

Itskul then suggested that Thai society should have a serious debate on bigger issues like gender value and failures in the justice system.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Train-killing-raises-queries-about-Thai-attitude-t-30238325.html

-- The Nation 2014-07-12

[jaltsc]

"He said Thailand is a society with selective morality. Mercy is given to different groups often with an uncertain rationale.
He also said women in Thai society are treated unequally and that females are doubly victimised as many observers criticise them for not protecting themselves sufficiently."

If any society was examined deeply enough, one would discover that to some extent there is selective morality. However, in some societies it is more rampant, obvious and accepted. I wonder if all these people promoting the death penalty for rape would be so adamant if it was pointed out to them that beating and forcing sex on their wives/partners is in fact rape. Would both, the rapist and target of that rape want to see the perpetrator executed? The same goes for the beating of a child for 'discipline'. Strike an adult, who is physically able to protect himself and you get arrested for assault. Strike your child, who is defenseless, then it is acceptable behavior and a parent's right. Just something to think about.

[Bernard Flint]

"He said Thailand is a society with selective morality. Mercy is given to different groups often with an uncertain rationale.

He also said women in Thai society are treated unequally and that females are doubly victimised as many observers criticise them for not protecting themselves sufficiently."

If any society was examined deeply enough, one would discover that to some extent there is selective morality. However, in some societies it is more rampant, obvious and accepted. I wonder if all these people promoting the death penalty for rape would be so adamant if it was pointed out to them that beating and forcing sex on their wives/partners is in fact rape. Would both, the rapist and target of that rape want to see the perpetrator executed? The same goes for the beating of a child for 'discipline'. Strike an adult, who is physically able to protect himself and you get arrested for assault. Strike your child, who is defenseless, then it is acceptable behavior and a parent's right. Just something to think about.

Not the same

If i was striking and adult, i would make certain he didnt get up, so he couldnt try to attack me again. With a child, its totaly different the the vast majority, more scolding than beating

[lostsoul49]

Castration for ALL sexual offences should be mandatory.

Castration and life in prison for all sexual offences against children.

Death penalty for rape and murder.

[thesetat2013]

Castration for ALL sexual offences should be mandatory.

Castration and life in prison for all sexual offences against children.

Death penalty for rape and murder.[/quote

Ok so that means if you were horny and your wife said " i dont want sex tonight, but you sex her anyway" that is unconsentual sex which is rape. You are ready to die for rape of your own wife? Ohh or be castrated? Since you dont understand RAPE you shouldn't be screaming your uneducated opinions.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thesetat2013]

Punishment for real rape victims should be inprisonment and put on a sexual predators list and shared nationwide. But raping and torturing and killing this little girl deserves the harshest punishment. Cut off his pecker and let him bleed to death.

As for murder, a life for a life is the best way to go.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[hansnl]

"He said Thailand is a society with selective morality. Mercy is given to different groups often with an uncertain rationale.

He also said women in Thai society are treated unequally and that females are doubly victimised as many observers criticise them for not protecting themselves sufficiently."

If any society was examined deeply enough, one would discover that to some extent there is selective morality. However, in some societies it is more rampant, obvious and accepted. I wonder if all these people promoting the death penalty for rape would be so adamant if it was pointed out to them that beating and forcing sex on their wives/partners is in fact rape. Would both, the rapist and target of that rape want to see the perpetrator executed? The same goes for the beating of a child for 'discipline'. Strike an adult, who is physically able to protect himself and you get arrested for assault. Strike your child, who is defenseless, then it is acceptable behavior and a parent's right. Just something to think about.

Not the same

If i was striking and adult, i would make certain he didnt get up, so he couldnt try to attack me again. With a child, its totaly different the the vast majority, more scolding than beating

Oh wow. a strong man!

I would make certain he did not get up?

Kill him, in other words?

Just suppose he is "stronger" as you are, you expect him to kill you also, or you expect to be saved one way or another?

\

[klauskunkel]

However, he said that the death penalty wasn't an effective way to prevent crimes.

But it is: the executed is fully prevented from committing any crime ever again, q.e.d.

Edited July 12, 2014 by klauskunkel

[Lancelot]

How can violence happen here? Thais are tolerant and non aggressive

Back OT, it is good when societies question their conduct and look for sincere solutions for improvement.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Lancelot

[noitom]

This guy was a sociopath under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Unfortunately, this could happen in any society in the world. Thais, in general,don't regard "unreported" crime a serious issue.

[spidermike007]

Castration for ALL sexual offences should be mandatory.

Castration and life in prison for all sexual offences against children.

Death penalty for rape and murder.[/quote

Ok so that means if you were horny and your wife said " i dont want sex tonight, but you sex her anyway" that is unconsentual sex which is rape. You are ready to die for rape of your own wife? Ohh or be castrated? Since you dont understand RAPE you shouldn't be screaming your uneducated opinions.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You are really missing the point, and are starting to sound like a lawyer. He means the rape of a stranger, who was unknown, and in cases where it can be proven without a doubt. At that point castration would be delightful and beneficial. There are some acts from which you can never return. Rape is one of them. Rape of a child is a crime which cannot be forgiven under any circumstances. Please stop apologizing for the pigs of society. They love your sympathy, but it is ill advised.

[albro]

The OP hints at this, but I think a lot of people aren't considering the impact of issuing the death penalty for rape. Wouldn't that just incentivize rapists to kill the victim/witness, since the penalty would be the same for them either way?

It's too late to help the poor girl who was killed, but it's not too late to help the next girl. Long-term imprisonment in a Thai prison for a rapist is a pretty severe punishment already, IMHO we don't need to push these creeps to take it any further.

[timewilltell]

The Death penalty for rape - not suitable. For rape and then murder or even attempted murder - there is an argument for it and it has to be a different punishment than rape without murder.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[catweazle]

Let's face it - man is a domesticated animal. Most are able to keep the animal within under control, few can't. Those few who can't and commit hideous crimes like this have forfeited their right to live together with the ones that apply proper self-control and need to be taken out for good, since no dogooder psychiatrist will be able to change the bad ones with their superficial blahblah and recliner sofa sessions, hard time will also achieve nothing.

Dog bites man, man shoots dog - it's very simple!

Edited July 12, 2014 by catweazle

[catweazle]

The Death penalty for rape - not suitable. For rape and then murder or even attempted murder - there is an argument for it and it has to be a different punishment than rape without murder.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Rape without murder or the attempt of should then at least require full castration to protect future victims. Most of the newborn eunuchs will commit suicide afterwards anyway - would be a win win situation

[AGareth2]

violence against women is prevalent on Thai television

start there

[timewilltell]

The Death penalty for rape - not suitable. For rape and then murder or even attempted murder - there is an argument for it and it has to be a different punishment than rape without murder.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Rape without murder or the attempt of should then at least require full castration to protect future victims. Most of the newborn eunuchs will commit suicide afterwards anyway - would be a win win situation

I agree with you.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[jaltsc]

The Death penalty for rape - not suitable. For rape and then murder or even attempted murder - there is an argument for it and it has to be a different punishment than rape without murder.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Rape without murder or the attempt of should then at least require full castration to protect future victims. Most of the newborn eunuchs will commit suicide afterwards anyway - would be a win win situation

Unfortunately that is not the common result. Since rape is an act of violence, the castrated male will find other ways to torture his victims. Isolating him from the public is the most effective way to protect society.

[Toscano]

Thai people seem by nature very passive , yet seen to enjoy seeing violence . My wife , 53yrs a school head teacher , is addicted to channel 7 on TV every evening . No matter the flimsy story , there is always violence ; I think that is part of the appeal , but I cannot understand why .

[UbonRatch]

"He talked of determinism where some criminals may be "programmed" by genes and environment"

Study a bit of psychology for <deleted?ks sake, dip-stick!

Programmed by genes my arse. If that was the case the world would be full of zombies.

...

Then again, you might have a point!

Edited July 13, 2014 by Scott

[sz1a]

Let's face it - man is a domesticated animal. Most are able to keep the animal within under control, few can't. Those few who can't and commit hideous crimes like this have forfeited their right to live together with the ones that apply proper self-control and need to be taken out for good, since no dogooder psychiatrist will be able to change the bad ones with their superficial blahblah and recliner sofa sessions, hard time will also achieve nothing.

Dog bites man, man shoots dog - it's very simple!

I totally agree. Once you assault or inflict violence on someone, like rape, whatever happens to you after that should be considered circumstantial. Those who assault others should not have legal protection. When you violate or assault people you break the sacred human code of minding one's own business. If you take freedoms with others it should demote you from normal society. I think victims of assault and bystanders should have an automatic right to defend someone in danger. The scum of the earth doesn't need empathy.

[NoshowJones]

"He said Thailand is a society with selective morality. Mercy is given to different groups often with an uncertain rationale.

He also said women in Thai society are treated unequally and that females are doubly victimised as many observers criticise them for not protecting themselves sufficiently."

If any society was examined deeply enough, one would discover that to some extent there is selective morality. However, in some societies it is more rampant, obvious and accepted. I wonder if all these people promoting the death penalty for rape would be so adamant if it was pointed out to them that beating and forcing sex on their wives/partners is in fact rape. Would both, the rapist and target of that rape want to see the perpetrator executed? The same goes for the beating of a child for 'discipline'. Strike an adult, who is physically able to protect himself and you get arrested for assault. Strike your child, who is defenseless, then it is acceptable behavior and a parent's right. Just something to think about.

Not the same

If i was striking and adult, i would make certain he didnt get up, so he couldnt try to attack me again. With a child, its totaly different the the vast majority, more scolding than beating

Oh wow. a strong man!

I would make certain he did not get up?

Kill him, in other words?

Just suppose he is "stronger" as you are, you expect him to kill you also, or you expect to be saved one way or another?

\

Bernard Flint is dead right, providing the guy he put down had threatened or attempted to use violence against him. I will go further than that, if anyone even threatens me with violence, and I see anything nearby I can use as a weapon, then I won't hesitate to use it, and I will make sure he does not get up.

[GuestHouse]

Train killing raises queries about Thai attitude to violent crimes

I think it raises far more questions about the attitudes within Thai society towards women and girls.

[UbonRatch]

Let's face it - man is a domesticated animal. Most are able to keep the animal within under control, few can't. Those few who can't and commit hideous crimes like this have forfeited their right to live together with the ones that apply proper self-control and need to be taken out for good, since no dogooder psychiatrist will be able to change the bad ones with their superficial blahblah and recliner sofa sessions, hard time will also achieve nothing.

Dog bites man, man shoots dog - it's very simple!

I totally agree. Once you assault or inflict violence on someone, like rape, whatever happens to you after that should be considered circumstantial. Those who assault others should not have legal protection. When you violate or assault people you break the sacred human code of minding one's own business. If you take freedoms with others it should demote you from normal society. I think victims of assault and bystanders should have an automatic right to defend someone in danger. The scum of the earth doesn't need empathy.

I disagree with your human code of 'minding one's own business'.

It lies deeper than that, as in physically infringing one's space (aura), person and physical freedom, when same said is not impinging upon another's.

Man is not domesticated, in general, catwaezle. Woman is! Man is the fighter, in a psychological sphere, and the woman doesn't (per se history).

However, violating the aura of a person, especially physically, displays a tendency to not be able to accept oneself as 'normal' (when comparing and contrasting with peers), and it is that which needs serious identification in earlier years, and it is that which is missing on a huge scale within the educational system, and medical sphere. All children go to see doctors... (as a general rule)... and it is a responsibility of both doctors and teachers to identify 'misfits'. Unfortunately, most of both the latter are not psychologically trained, and that leaves the exact holes that are escaped by perpretrators of such heinous crimes.

Minding one's own business is not an answer. If all and sundry did such the then the world would be anarchic.

[GuestHouse]

Let's face it - man is a domesticated animal. Most are able to keep the animal within under control, few can't. Those few who can't and commit hideous crimes like this have forfeited their right to live together with the ones that apply proper self-control and need to be taken out for good, since no dogooder psychiatrist will be able to change the bad ones with their superficial blahblah and recliner sofa sessions, hard time will also achieve nothing.

Dog bites man, man shoots dog - it's very simple!

I totally agree. Once you assault or inflict violence on someone, like rape, whatever happens to you after that should be considered circumstantial. Those who assault others should not have legal protection. When you violate or assault people you break the sacred human code of minding one's own business. If you take freedoms with others it should demote you from normal society. I think victims of assault and bystanders should have an automatic right to defend someone in danger. The scum of the earth doesn't need empathy.

There are a number of places around the world where justice is indeed dished out by the mob, no investigations, no trials, no defence - simply a mob hanging, stoning or clubbing an accused perpetrator to death.

I'm absolutely sure you would not choose to live in any of those places.

[cup-O-coffee]

Castration for ALL sexual offences should be mandatory.

Castration and life in prison for all sexual offences against children.

Death penalty for rape and murder.

Assuming the perp has testicles, you knob head! How about genital mutilation for the women... of any age? Oh... it doesn't sound so nice, does it?

The problem with a one off solution for these types of things is that the ones who would make the rules and oversee the process have lately turned out to be anti-male, anti white minorities with a hell bent attitude to turn everything they target into a mindless, castrated, feminized drone.

So, you see, it isn't as easy as you make it out to be. Maybe in a hundred years, when my generation is dead, and the next few generations of males have been conditioned to be drones with no identity or purpose other than to serve the needs of the queen bee.

The attitude about violent crimes is what it is. The less educated, the more base. To assume that violence comes from nothing is about as stupid as believing in the big bang theory.

There are many many forms of violence, and most of those forms outnumber physical violence. WOmen know this,whether subconsciously or consciously. SUbconscioulsy when their survival instinct kicks in and consciously when they can catch their breathe and plot their revenge. Violence begets violence.

I'll discuss this all day with anyone who can manage to dispense with the innuendos that this is all about males and to target their testicles as a means to an end.

This violence issue is equally doled out. It is simply that money hungry, grudge holding, feeble minded, PTSS individuals don't want to delve into the undiscovered issues of how one goes about goading a tiger into a fit of rage, whether consciously or subconsciously.

How about studies on menopause, and how it severely affects the mental state of a person. Of postpartum and natal depression, etc etc etc.

Sounds like I am digressing, but I am not. Every issue has a beginning. It starts small and gets bigger as the numbers and statistics compound. But this silent accumulation of propoganda and hate towards the male throughout the last sixty or seventy years makes it almost a hate crime to even remotely suggest that women have as much to do with this violence as men.

This post is merely a random mix of my thoughts and views on the matter, but I am certain that the way things are going now and being handled now are only going to make for worse scenarios in the future.

[Thai at Heart]

"He said Thailand is a society with selective morality. Mercy is given to different groups often with an uncertain rationale.

He also said women in Thai society are treated unequally and that females are doubly victimised as many observers criticise them for not protecting themselves sufficiently."

If any society was examined deeply enough, one would discover that to some extent there is selective morality. However, in some societies it is more rampant, obvious and accepted. I wonder if all these people promoting the death penalty for rape would be so adamant if it was pointed out to them that beating and forcing sex on their wives/partners is in fact rape. Would both, the rapist and target of that rape want to see the perpetrator executed? The same goes for the beating of a child for 'discipline'. Strike an adult, who is physically able to protect himself and you get arrested for assault. Strike your child, who is defenseless, then it is acceptable behavior and a parent's right. Just something to think about.

On a basic level, yes, rape is rape. But within existing adult relationships the dynamic is not the same as finding s child on a train.

I find the discussion of rape in terms of having a massive prostitution industry in society more interesting. Yes the woman consents to have sex, but only on the promise of money. Hardly a free decision to allow the bloke to have sex with her is it.

[GuestHouse]

Cup-O-Coffee. Very well said.

As you rightly point out, there are very many forms of violence not all physical and it is often the emotional violence that does the most damage.

I like to demonstrate this with an observation.

Most of us have at some time in our childhood been smacked (almost always for good reason), we might remember the smack, we certainly cannot recall the pain - it was painful, then it was not. Later as parents we learn the truth of what our own parents told us at the time - this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you.

Over the last three decades, smacking children has been given huge coverage in social science, psychology and of course the media.

But here's a thing.

Ask people about experiences of discipline that still hurt from their early life, it seldom is an issue of physical violence, almost always its an emotional scar from a having been unduly criticised, humiliated or shamed.

Forms of violence that cause life long damage to individuals, which as equally used by women as by men (arguably more so) and yet which receive zero attention in the discussion of violence.

[thesetat2013]

Castration for ALL sexual offences should be mandatory.

Castration and life in prison for all sexual offences against children.

Death penalty for rape and murder.[/quote

Ok so that means if you were horny and your wife said " i dont want sex tonight, but you sex her anyway" that is unconsentual sex which is rape. You are ready to die for rape of your own wife? Ohh or be castrated? Since you dont understand RAPE you shouldn't be screaming your uneducated opinions.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You are really missing the point, and are starting to sound like a lawyer. He means the rape of a stranger, who was unknown, and in cases where it can be proven without a doubt. At that point castration would be delightful and beneficial. There are some acts from which you can never return. Rape is one of them. Rape of a child is a crime which cannot be forgiven under any circumstances. Please stop apologizing for the pigs of society. They love your sympathy, but it is ill advised.

My sympathy? You are ill informed

I think rape is a horrible crime especially in thailand where a few hundred baht can get you laid with a willing partner. I have mo sympathy for this act

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[vogie]

Castration for ALL sexual offences should be mandatory.

Castration and life in prison for all sexual offences against children.

Death penalty for rape and murder.[/quote

Ok so that means if you were horny and your wife said " i dont want sex tonight, but you sex her anyway" that is unconsentual sex which is rape. You are ready to die for rape of your own wife? Ohh or be castrated? Since you dont understand RAPE you shouldn't be screaming your uneducated opinions.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If your wife doesn't want sex, you don't have sex. She is no different from any other woman, just because she is your wife it doesn't give the husband the right to rape her. Is it me???