Thailand faces trade ban over ivory failings:

[Chris Lawrence]

Don't need this type of press. Time for the Thai spin doctors?

Such a gracious creature, so one can have a bit of ivory hanging from the neck or wrist?

Can't win a trick at the moment, Thailand. And then they want to partner up with China or work with Myanmar on human trafficking?

What's next; a story on catching a poacher?

[Thai at Heart]

another week of ....but, but, not us, someone else, unfair, they did it, and other bull from the thais

Along with China, Thailand is part of the "Gang of Eight" countries that have faced scrutiny over the ivory trade, but it is now seen as the key offender.

this statement says everything to make thailand wake up...the country of elephant lovers

It is all false love, Thailand couldn't care less about elephants they are nothing but a commodity to Thais. Everything is money to them alive or dead doesn't matter.

You are saying about Thai that it's all about money?

I'm sure there are some Thai that would kill for money..as in any country.

To suggest that the majority of Thai people would kill a elephant for money...

I don't agree but maybe you know Thai people better than me.

I presume you can speak Thai & have come to this conclusion from speaking to them?

I disagree with those who condemn the majority of Thais as everything being about money. Traditional Thai culture, if I understand correctly from my reading and observations, puts a greater emphasis on family, for example. However, here is the global issue, if a people of any nation, allows a problem of international standing to exist, does that people bear a responsibility of stopping the problem?

I read that in a book too. I don't hold Thais to be any better at anything than anyone else. However, in facilitating an ivory trade they are clearly superior for that.

Does their supposed superiority with family enable this trade or is it to do with a generic inability to sanction the powerful and for Thai society not to make obvious moral judgements about right and wrong. All of these obvious transgressions against Thai culture going on full view if everyone and yet no one does anything. Must be a uniquely Thai thing to both condemn and approve at the same time. Or is that just simple hypocrisy?

Or would you like to apologise for Thai societys inability to stop this trade a bit more. Or possibly its the falangs fault for inventing elephants?

Edited July 12, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[FangFerang]

Thais sell ivory at the elephant farms...

Amazing Thailand. Must be Thaksin's fault.

[FangFerang]

If Thais cared so much, why cant they do it themselves?

Farang are not my uncle. We know how to do everything. We listen not because we have experts: politicians. Nothing is of importance beyond Thai boundaries, and we will fight and give everydrop of blood for our safety, freedom and progress. We care, jing jing.

"We know how to do everything". "Nothing is of importance beyond Thai boundaries".

Best joke of the decade! Thainess made literal!

[FangFerang]

Rather than a "sink," for Thai and other global ivory, Thailand has become the toilet bowl. Cites should just flush THailand away. Nations, animal rights activists, wildlife activists, and all should boycott Thailand and its products until it cleans up its act on its own elephant ivory traffic. It's a shame. Where is the Thai military dictatorship who is supposed to be cleaning up Thailand?

Where is the Thai military dictatorship who is supposed to be cleaning up Thailand?

Are you living in Outer Mongolia?

The military "dictatorship" has been in the hot seat for just under two months and is doing a fine job of cleaning up Thailand, if you hadn't noticed. The monstrous mess that PTP left has caused logistical problems for everyone involved.

After the killing of the "Ayuttaya elephant", you can bet a team will be assigned to work on this whole problem with the Thailand connection to China's lust for ivory and other endangered animal parts..

"Mess that PTP left"....

What nonsense, rubbish and prevarication. These problems: human trafficking, ivory depot sales, opium trade, prostitution, loan sharking the poor into submission and, of course, fraudulent rice corruption...all pre-dates Thaksin. The Thais were the first to admit, "Thaksin just took 'Thainess' too far". Numerous Nation, BP and even Khao Sad news articles all made similar comments.

And in these junta heavy times, everyone conveniently forgets that, and focuses on the...exact thing those in power want you to focus on....Something, someone else.....anything but 'Thainess'

You said "You can bet a team will..." What? The Thai Team will look around, write a report, there will be strong suggestions for action (no demands) and it will be swept under the rug.as soon as possible.

Again. Ad infinitum....You Can Bet On That.

[bigbamboo]

Thais sell ivory at the elephant farms...

Amazing Thailand. Must be Thaksin's fault.

No, but he did choose to employ a Minister who wanted a wildlife restaurant at Chiang Mai Night Safari so I think we can assume animal welfare is not one his things.

[OZEMADE]

If dogs had ivory the stray dog problem would be solved in a week.

Maybe we could start a rumor? Then I could actually walk around our neighborhood maybe!

You don't have to start a rumour, if they let the dog smugglers take them over the border to Cambodia and Vietnam, dog problem solved.

[fish fingers]

The chinese have pushed the market price for a large tusk at around $600,000. Sick <deleted>

feel very strongly about this subject and hope the current administration clamp down very heavily - the thai economy doesn't gain from this at all, its just a black economy and illegal trading in a sacred symbol of Thailand IN Thailand is just so wrong...

[OZEMADE]

The chinese have pushed the market price for a large tusk at around $600,000. Sick <deleted>

feel very strongly about this subject and hope the current administration clamp down very heavily - the thai economy doesn't gain from this at all, its just a black economy and illegal trading in a sacred symbol of Thailand IN Thailand is just so wrong...

The new Military should take control of this immediately. Confiscate all ivory and destroy it. Close all shops that sell Ivory and confiscate all of their property as it would have been gained from the proceeds of illegal Ivory sales. Criminally charge the owners of these shops. That's a start.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Sounds to me like going after the users and not the distributors. If these people want to control the what Africa can do with ivory then deal with Africa. As long as people have trouble getting legitimate jobs, they are going to turn to illegal industries.

Asia has the worlds largest number of hungry/starving people (500 Million+) with Africa coming in second. But let the rich do gooders push to economically punish the countries in these continents because animals are being harmed. Amazing what was okay for these first world countries to do when they were developing but how easily the point the fingers at those who do similar.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Yet amid all the media coverage, little attention has been paid to the U.S.’s own trade in legal and illegal ivory, which experts say, trails only the very largest Asian markets. It’s legal to sell African elephant ivory imported before 1989 and Asian elephant ivory removed from the wild before 1976 within the U.S., and illegal sales regularly occur under cover of the legal market – a ton of illegal ivory was seized in a single raid on New York stores in 2011. Ivory in the U.S. is largely unmonitored, and the laws regulating it are antiquated, confusing, and shot through with loopholes. In addition, the agencies tasked with enforcing these laws are underfunded and chronically short-staffed.

http://e360.yale.edu/feature/amid_elephant_slaughter_ivory_trade_in_us_continues/2738/

I wonder if the US is facing sanctions or is it just pick on the poorer countries to make the powerful ones appear like they care and excuse their own behavior. The US is actually the 2nd largest market for ivory in the US though Obama is supposedly trying to pass laws to address the issue.

Edited July 12, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[ChrisY1]

When one considers that many wealthy and influential people...Hi-So if you like....will have a beautiful pair of tusks in their home...in pride of place.....

The ivory store operators are also among these people......is it any wonder that nothing has been done....and as we all know...the ivory trade has increased 3 fold in the past couple of years.....

Edited July 13, 2014 by ChrisY1

[kurnell]

another week of ....but, but, not us, someone else, unfair, they did it, and other bull from the thais

Along with China, Thailand is part of the "Gang of Eight" countries that have faced scrutiny over the ivory trade, but it is now seen as the key offender.

this statement says everything to make thailand wake up...the country of elephant lovers

Thais don't love elephants, or dogs, or even their own grandmother. They love MONEY only.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Wonder when there will be any international trade bans regarding the huge Sharkfin soup business in Thailand?

[Halion]

For decades this country has gotten away with treating everyone like sheep. They say what ever suits their purpose at any particular point in time with little concern or understanding of the underlying problems. They are so used to herding sheep that they believe in their ability to bullshit all and sundrie and only severe and staunch actions against their recalcitrance and misrepresentation will get their attention. They will agree to anything they view as giving them stature and opportunity without the slightest intention to carry out their obligations,however they fail to realize that the world outside has a better educational, moral and ethical background that the public of this nation who they have been usurping for decades. It is truly a land of smoke and mirrors

[wwest5829]

another week of ....but, but, not us, someone else, unfair, they did it, and other bull from the thais

Along with China, Thailand is part of the "Gang of Eight" countries that have faced scrutiny over the ivory trade, but it is now seen as the key offender.

this statement says everything to make thailand wake up...the country of elephant lovers

It is all false love, Thailand couldn't care less about elephants they are nothing but a commodity to Thais. Everything is money to them alive or dead doesn't matter.

You are saying about Thai that it's all about money?

I'm sure there are some Thai that would kill for money..as in any country.

To suggest that the majority of Thai people would kill a elephant for money...

I don't agree but maybe you know Thai people better than me.

I presume you can speak Thai & have come to this conclusion from speaking to them?

I disagree with those who condemn the majority of Thais as everything being about money. Traditional Thai culture, if I understand correctly from my reading and observations, puts a greater emphasis on family, for example. However, here is the global issue, if a people of any nation, allows a problem of international standing to exist, does that people bear a responsibility of stopping the problem?

I read that in a book too. I don't hold Thais to be any better at anything than anyone else. However, in facilitating an ivory trade they are clearly superior for that.

Does their supposed superiority with family enable this trade or is it to do with a generic inability to sanction the powerful and for Thai society not to make obvious moral judgements about right and wrong. All of these obvious transgressions against Thai culture going on full view if everyone and yet no one does anything. Must be a uniquely Thai thing to both condemn and approve at the same time. Or is that just simple hypocrisy?

Or would you like to apologise for Thai societys inability to stop this trade a bit more. Or possibly its the falangs fault for inventing elephants?

Actually, I subscribe to the view that the society where the wrong exists, bears responsibility to end that wrong, even in the face of overwhelming force. I do not subscribe to painting an entire population as motivated only by money.

[ratcatcher]

Sounds to me like going after the users and not the distributors. If these people want to control the what Africa can do with ivory then deal with Africa. As long as people have trouble getting legitimate jobs, they are going to turn to illegal industries.

Asia has the worlds largest number of hungry/starving people (500 Million+) with Africa coming in second. But let the rich do gooders push to economically punish the countries in these continents because animals are being harmed. Amazing what was okay for these first world countries to do when they were developing but how easily the point the fingers at those who do similar.

"Asia has the worlds largest number of hungry/starving people (500 Million+) with Africa coming in second."

And Thailand has millions of tons of rice it can't sell. Interesting.

[Thai at Heart]

another week of ....but, but, not us, someone else, unfair, they did it, and other bull from the thais

Along with China, Thailand is part of the "Gang of Eight" countries that have faced scrutiny over the ivory trade, but it is now seen as the key offender.

this statement says everything to make thailand wake up...the country of elephant lovers

It is all false love, Thailand couldn't care less about elephants they are nothing but a commodity to Thais. Everything is money to them alive or dead doesn't matter.

You are saying about Thai that it's all about money?

I'm sure there are some Thai that would kill for money..as in any country.

To suggest that the majority of Thai people would kill a elephant for money...

I don't agree but maybe you know Thai people better than me.

I presume you can speak Thai & have come to this conclusion from speaking to them?

I disagree with those who condemn the majority of Thais as everything being about money. Traditional Thai culture, if I understand correctly from my reading and observations, puts a greater emphasis on family, for example. However, here is the global issue, if a people of any nation, allows a problem of international standing to exist, does that people bear a responsibility of stopping the problem?

I read that in a book too. I don't hold Thais to be any better at anything than anyone else. However, in facilitating an ivory trade they are clearly superior for that.

Does their supposed superiority with family enable this trade or is it to do with a generic inability to sanction the powerful and for Thai society not to make obvious moral judgements about right and wrong. All of these obvious transgressions against Thai culture going on full view if everyone and yet no one does anything. Must be a uniquely Thai thing to both condemn and approve at the same time. Or is that just simple hypocrisy?

Or would you like to apologise for Thai societys inability to stop this trade a bit more. Or possibly its the falangs fault for inventing elephants?

Actually, I subscribe to the view that the society where the wrong exists, bears responsibility to end that wrong, even in the face of overwhelming force. I do not subscribe to painting an entire population as motivated only by money.

Well a very mature elephant was poisoned last week for its tusks. I await the moral outrage in Thailand.

[spidermike007]

Thailand faces trade ban over ivory failings:

by Jonathan FOWLER

GENEVA, July 11, 2014 (AFP) - Thailand faces an international wildlife trade ban unless it reins in its ivory sector, which is a magnet for traffickers, global regulator CITES said on Friday.

"There have been years without any real action on the ground when it comes to controlling the illegal ivory market," said Oeystein Stoerkersen, chairman of CITES's governing body.

The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora has set Thailand an August 2015 deadline to fall into line or risk wide-ranging sanctions.

Bangkok is under additional pressure to report back by January on steps to bolster recent laws on registering ivory importers, traders and legal stockpiles, that CITES claims are insufficient.

"Without that, Thailand will face a ban, and a suspension of all trade no matter what commodity it is, of the 35,000 species listed with CITES," he told reporters.

A ban would prevent the country trading anything appearing on that list with another country, including orchids and exotic wood, which are significant export products for Thailand.

"I think that is a strong signal," said Stoerkersen, adding that Thai diplomats at the talks had acknowledged that their country needed to do more.

But environmental campaigner WWF said the body should have hit Thailand harder, given that

Bangkok pledged last year to smash the illegal trade but the quantities of ivory on sale rose sharply.

"A suspension of trade in all CITES goods from Thailand would have been justified," said WWF analyst Colman O'Criodain.

Current Thai law allows ivory from domesticated Thai elephants to be sold, making it simple to launder poached African ivory, WWF said.

"Thailand's market is fuelling the illegal assault on African elephants," said O'Criodain.

The decision on Thailand came as delegates wrapped up a week-long CITES conference on trade in endangered species.

Earlier this week, CITES chief John Scanlon told AFP that elephants would be wiped out in some parts of Africa unless more countries got involved in efforts to prevent poaching and smuggling.

Over the past three years, more than 60,000 African elephants have been killed, far outstripping their birth rate.

Crime syndicates and militias in Africa have become increasingly involved in the multi-billion-dollar illicit trade, taking advantage of Asian demand for ivory to use in decorations and traditional medicines.

- 'Next generation will not forgive us' -

Stoerkersen said Thailand had become a "sink" for African ivory, sucking in imports bought by foreigners for export to other Asian countries.

"It's more or less an unregulated market," he said.

Along with China, Thailand is part of the "Gang of Eight" countries that have faced scrutiny over the ivory trade, but it is now seen as the key offender.

Speaking at the conference in Geneva, William Kiprono, who leads Kenya's Wildlife Service, said his country is cracking down hard on poachers and illegal ivory traders.

He said that the country is currently recruiting hundreds more wildlife rangers, but said more action was also needed from consumers.

"In some places, they think that ivory just falls out of an animal just like feathers," he said.

"We need to work together. If we don't act, we are going to lose our wildlife, as Kenya, as Africa and the globe. And the next generation will not forgive us," he said.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-07-12

It appears that this kind of pressure is the only way to get Thailand to act on anything. Only with outside pressure, and embarrassment caused by international outrage, does anything really useful or constructive seem to get done here. Never simply because it is the right thing to do. Thailand has had a dysfunctional and ineffective government for so many decades now, people do not even remember what a competent government body looks like. And enforcement of any law is only as good as authorities with real power, and an uncompromised prosecutors office, and judiciary make it. Otherwise, it is just jaw boning and political babble. In other words meaningless, and pure BS.

Spidermike

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