Online freelancer, long stay in Thailand

[mrtoad]

 

 

SP, it appears you have some hidden talent. However the ending wasn't so happy

" there was a knock n the door, and when he opened it he was confronted by the sight of four leather clad immigration police............"

I don't want to go any further

 
".....carrying a TGAU, he recoiled in horror and his mind was racing, this cant be happening, he thought to himself, I am only a farang day trader and my overstay is only 9 months. One of the leather clad immigration officer's gently stroked the hard geometric lines of the TGAU, and in his eyes you could see the glint of anticipation.........." 
 
 

" a sound of vehicle bell could be heard in the distance, he thought to himself "could that be a Baht Bus, that I can run to?" The officers seemed pre occupied, with the TGAU, and this was a chance to break free and run to the baht bus. As he scrambled onto the safety of said chariot, he caught in the corner of his eye, a man with a big grin................"
 

 
 
"he stared at the man with a hint of recognition, and thought to himself, I am sure this man is a local farang food critic, his thoughts were interrupted as he noticed the man with the grinning face was looking over his shoulder, as he turned he could see the leather clad immigration officers closing in rapidly on the baht bus, TGAU still him hand, and being waved in the air like some phallic symbol of war, what do I do, What do I do, as the panic set in, it was then he noticed out of the corner of eye, a very statuesque looking Thai lady with sweat dripping between her surgically enhanced busom,beckoning him into a narrow soi just out of sight of the marauding immigration officers, without a second thought he jumped from the baht bus, knocking hot  cheap coffee all over the grinning man and disappeared into the soi..................."

To Be Continued......

[onthemoon]

 

 

 

What really irks me is the backbiting churlish responses from so many of the posters on thaivisa, if the ball was in the other court how many people who post that 500k bhat is nothing would really be willing to part with that much money themselves! It strikes me as shear jealousy and petty mindedness that there are people who were able to live here under retirement age, is working from your home country online really that detrimental to Thailand? Does this clamp down personally benefit those on different visa?

 

As for working online when I applied for my ED visa I was asked what I did for income I explained and showed them statements and they didn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

 

In a lot of the cases I would agree with you.. But in the case of people who simply refuse to become legal and pay their taxes, and invent reasons why they should be exempted from doing so, no I dont think thats petty or churlish.. 

 

Thailand has said what it wants.. If people want to work here theres a process to do it.. It has costs.. Dont want to face those costs then either leave Thailand or stop working. 

 

 

I'd be more than happy to pay tax here on my income here if that was possible, opening a business isn't viable a visa I'd have to employ 4 Thai people to essentially sit there and do nothing all day.

 

 

Dont forget that if you do open a company, you can only own 49% of it ;-) So if you do invest 100%, you end of with 49% ownership and 4 Thai-people sitting doing nothing... Great setup! ;-)

 

If you open a company under BOI, you can own 100% of it. 

 

If you open a any company, your investment should be equal to your share. If you invest 100% to own 49%, you re not a good business person to begin with,

 

Note: Investment does not need to be financially. One partner invests money, the other partner has the local contacts for government and marketing relations, for example.

 

Here is a question: If I wanted to go to, say Australia or the EU as an ASEAN citizen, and just settle down and work as a freelancer, would that be OK without requirement for certain documentation and work permits? If I arrived at the US as a tourist and want to just stay for a few years and do my online work, would that be supported by the government?

[seancbk]

 

 

Yes I agree with you and incidentally your first post in this thread was excellent.

 

 

 

Thank you very much Looks like I should have asked my proofreader to go over that post, though, as I just noticed my unforgivable their/there typo. My kingdom for an edit button.

 

 

I did spot that but despite being a bit of a grammar Nazi (at times), I chose to ignore it ;-)

 

Could you PM me links to your publications, I'd like to check them out.

 

Thanks.

[JLCrab]

Oh come on -- a good IT like yourself given enough clues should be able to track that down yourself.

[bkkgooner]

your physical whereabouts don't matter

Yes they do, you need a work permit.

 

Show proof of more than one case of an on-line freelance worker being arrested in Thailand please and I'm not talking about 8 sweaty blokes in a boiler room thieving money from grandmothers. Show me a case of one bloke designing websites in his condo in Thailand that has been arrested and prosecuted. You won't find anything because it never happens.

 

Stop your scare mongering rubbish. 

[JLCrab]

I will agree with the above -- there have been TTBOMK no raids or arrests. However, if one has arrived in Thailand based upon a Tourist Visa, the official APPLICATION FOR VISA Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand contains the following declaration:

 

I hereby declare that the purpose of my visit to Thailand is for pleasure or transit only and that in no case shall I engage myself in any profession or occupation while in the country.

 

So if you are a freelance WORKER as stated in the post above, you have signed and made a false statement to an official of The Royal Thai Government and at some point, especially upon re-entry, the online Freelance WORKER may become more vulnerable for that than any violation of Min. of Labor policies.

[AYJAYDEE]

 

your physical whereabouts don't matter

Yes they do, you need a work permit.

 

Show proof of more than one case of an on-line freelance worker being arrested in Thailand please and I'm not talking about 8 sweaty blokes in a boiler room thieving money from grandmothers. Show me a case of one bloke designing websites in his condo in Thailand that has been arrested and prosecuted. You won't find anything because it never happens.

 

Stop your scare mongering rubbish. 

 

are you saying they dont need a work permit?

[JLCrab]

No -- he is saying that as of today nobody WORKING freelance online out of their residence has been arrested and prosecuted for not having a work permit.

[larsjohnsson]

your physical whereabouts don't matter
Yes they do, you need a work permit.

 
Show proof of more than one case of an on-line freelance worker being arrested in Thailand please and I'm not talking about 8 sweaty blokes in a boiler room thieving money from grandmothers. Show me a case of one bloke designing websites in his condo in Thailand that has been arrested and prosecuted. You won't find anything because it never happens.
 
Stop your scare mongering rubbish. 

Can you show proof of your statement ?
And it's not ok just because you don't get arrested

[mrtoad]

No -- he is saying that as of today nobody WORKING freelance online out of their residence has been arrested and prosecuted for not having a work permit.

The other issue for them, is what visa they would be able to use. I would guess most have been abusing tourist visas for long term stays. That's not going to happen in the future

[onthemoon]

 

your physical whereabouts don't matter

Yes they do, you need a work permit.

 

Show proof of more than one case of an on-line freelance worker being arrested in Thailand please and I'm not talking about 8 sweaty blokes in a boiler room thieving money from grandmothers. Show me a case of one bloke designing websites in his condo in Thailand that has been arrested and prosecuted. You won't find anything because it never happens.

 

Stop your scare mongering rubbish. 

 

If nobody has been caught (is that really true?) for breaking the law, it does not justify breaking the law. I don't know what country you come from, but most countries expect all (including foreigners) to follow the law; there is no choice based on whether you know anybody who has been caught breaking it.

 

Interesting philosophy, though. Please do advise where you come from, so I can consider moving to your country. Everybody has the right to choose whether to follow laws they don't like... Wait, that would be anarchy. May I'd better stay away from your country.

[onthemoon]

 

No -- he is saying that as of today nobody WORKING freelance online out of their residence has been arrested and prosecuted for not having a work permit.

The other issue for them, is what visa they would be able to use. I would guess most have been abusing tourist visas for long term stays. That's not going to happen in the future

 

That seems to be correct. Lobbying for a change in the visa system would be the right way - I am in favour of getting rid of the THB 2 million + 4 Thai employee rule for a work permit, for example. Or at least to reduce the amount and/or the number of employees required.

 

However, advocating that people break the law is not a solution.

[JLCrab]

So in other words, you would lobby for changes maybe would require revisions of the Thai Immigration Act, the Thai Alien Working Act, various Ministry of Labor regulations, and the Thai Civil and Commercial Code. Look for this at the various Ministries:

 

 

Edited July 19, 2014 by JLCrab

[onthemoon]

So in other words, you would lobby for revisions of the Thai Immigration Act, the Thai Alien Working Act, various Ministry of Labor regulations, and the Thai Civil and Commercial Code. Look for this at the various Ministries:

 

 

 

Yes. I advise advise against advocating to break the law. You cannot just choose which law to follow. Is that different in the country where you come from?

 

I hope the people concerned use that box.

[JLCrab]

I don't advocate anything.

[onthemoon]

I don't advocate anything.

 

It was "you" in the general sense, not you personally.

[JLCrab]

OK but as I posted #276 above, I think the online worker is more vulnerable to making a false declaration on their Tourist visa application and being queried by IMM upon entry than they are from being caught in-the-act of working without a work permit.

 

Such false declaration could be a violation of the Thai Criminal Code as an Offense Against an Official.

[mrtoad]

OK but as I posted #276 above, I think the online worker is more vulnerable to making a false declaration on their Tourist visa application and being queried by IMM upon entry than they are from being caught in-the-act of working without a work permit.

 

Such false declaration could be a violation of the Thai Criminal Code as an Offense Against an Official.

That would also be my belief as well. 

 

I think the chances of actually being "caught" working on-line is small, however being stopped at immigration and refused entry or detained under suspicion of visa infringements is highly likely IMO

[onthemoon]

 

OK but as I posted #276 above, I think the online worker is more vulnerable to making a false declaration on their Tourist visa application and being queried by IMM upon entry than they are from being caught in-the-act of working without a work permit.

 

Such false declaration could be a violation of the Thai Criminal Code as an Offense Against an Official.

That would also be my belief as well. 

 

I think the chances of actually being "caught" working on-line is small, however being stopped at immigration and refused entry or detained under suspicion of visa infringements is highly likely IMO

 

 

I agree with both of you.

[Oceanbat]

OK but as I posted #276 above, I think the online worker is more vulnerable to making a false declaration on their Tourist visa application and being queried by IMM upon entry than they are from being caught in-the-act of working without a work permit.
 
Such false declaration could be a violation of the Thai Criminal Code as an Offense Against an Official.

That would also be my belief as well. 
 
I think the chances of actually being "caught" working on-line is small, however being stopped at immigration and refused entry or detained under suspicion of visa infringements is highly likely IMO

Pincer move. Make the consequences of overstay painful and crack down at the entry points.

OB


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[LivinLOS]

 You still don't get it? Why would a country create a visa class for a small minority of people who don't add much value to the country. You argue against create a company and hiring thai people. So immediately you are not going to increase the availability of value added jobs for thai. You don't want to bring capital into the country because you don't have it or you say it's too "risky". You aren't going to increase a thai persons skills and move up the income chain. You claim you spend money but don't pay income tax so you aren't helping there.

Still don't get why you don't get a visa class of your own?

OB


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 

 
Please kindly point to any of my post where I said that there should be a visa accommodating the online workers.
Also, I am not arguing against creating a company and hiring people, I am repeating ad nauseam that this structure is incompatible with most online activities. 
I also didn't say bringing capital to the country was too risky or that I wanted it or not.
I also never claimed I was spending money or not paying income tax.
 
That's four erroneous assumption you gave me in a single post, that must be a record! If you were quoting the wrong post, apologies for the sarcastic tone 

You keep saying how opening a business and being an entrepreneur is incompatible with being an online worker.. It is not., it's simply more work than you wish to involve yourself in.

The rules are clear.. If you wish to engage in this type of work, that is how you should do it.. If you don't wish to take those steps, you cannot do that work here. It's hardly rocket science.

[LivinLOS]

your physical whereabouts don't matter
Yes they do, you need a work permit.

 
Show proof of more than one case of an on-line freelance worker being arrested in Thailand please and I'm not talking about 8 sweaty blokes in a boiler room thieving money from grandmothers. Show me a case of one bloke designing websites in his condo in Thailand that has been arrested and prosecuted. You won't find anything because it never happens.
 
Stop your scare mongering rubbish. 

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1175

Perfect clarity on the legality and need for a work permit..

The fact so many genuine non working tourists and oil and gas workers, now face such visa insecurity, is due to the blatant disregard for the laws and sense of entitlement to do as they please so many are showing.

These are the laws of the land.. Don't like them, either try to change them, obey them, or leave.

[duanebigsby]

SP, it appears you have some hidden talent. However the ending wasn't so happy

" there was a knock n the door, and when he opened it he was confronted by the sight of four leather clad immigration police............"

I don't want to go any further

 
Toadie you really think I have talent.?.. maybe I should give up my O&G job and take up writing "articles" on line in a small condo in BKK, but i am not quite sure what visa I should apply for, what do you suggest ? with talent like mine they should give me a WP no questions asked, after all I would be paying VAT and contributing to building the Thai economy...they need me, but I want the 4 french maids with me, maybe I should start teaching English as well, what do you think ?

Well, I was hoping to see you follow up with what happens next after the four leather clad immigration police turn up.....

I'll judge you on one more piece of writing in this story before suggesting you give up your O&G job. Maybe you could get an ED visa to off that bloke whatshisname?

I think if Mr Soutpeel offered up his four French maids to the four leather clad immigration officers, there would be no visa issues ever again.

[Soutpeel]

SP, it appears you have some hidden talent. However the ending wasn't so happy

" there was a knock n the door, and when he opened it he was confronted by the sight of four leather clad immigration police............"

I don't want to go any further

 
Toadie you really think I have talent.?.. maybe I should give up my O&G job and take up writing "articles" on line in a small condo in BKK, but i am not quite sure what visa I should apply for, what do you suggest ? with talent like mine they should give me a WP no questions asked, after all I would be paying VAT and contributing to building the Thai economy...they need me, but I want the 4 french maids with me, maybe I should start teaching English as well, what do you think ?

Well, I was hoping to see you follow up with what happens next after the four leather clad immigration police turn up.....

I'll judge you on one more piece of writing in this story before suggesting you give up your O&G job. Maybe you could get an ED visa to off that bloke whatshisname?

I think if Mr Soutpeel offered up his four French maids to the four leather clad immigration officers, there would be no visa issues ever again.

The can have 1 French maid between them, I keep 3 and what do they do with the TGAU ?

[pistachios]

 

 

 You still don't get it? Why would a country create a visa class for a small minority of people who don't add much value to the country. You argue against create a company and hiring thai people. So immediately you are not going to increase the availability of value added jobs for thai. You don't want to bring capital into the country because you don't have it or you say it's too "risky". You aren't going to increase a thai persons skills and move up the income chain. You claim you spend money but don't pay income tax so you aren't helping there.

Still don't get why you don't get a visa class of your own?

OB


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 

 
Please kindly point to any of my post where I said that there should be a visa accommodating the online workers.
Also, I am not arguing against creating a company and hiring people, I am repeating ad nauseam that this structure is incompatible with most online activities. 
I also didn't say bringing capital to the country was too risky or that I wanted it or not.
I also never claimed I was spending money or not paying income tax.
 
That's four erroneous assumption you gave me in a single post, that must be a record! If you were quoting the wrong post, apologies for the sarcastic tone 

You keep saying how opening a business and being an entrepreneur is incompatible with being an online worker.. It is not., it's simply more work than you wish to involve yourself in.

The rules are clear.. If you wish to engage in this type of work, that is how you should do it.. If you don't wish to take those steps, you cannot do that work here. It's hardly rocket science.

 

 

You have a right to have an opinion, but if you don't elaborate, it is worth nothing and it shows you don't want to have a discussion. I have already given plenty of examples where an online worker would not be able to give work to employees and where a company would be a complete waste of time and money.

 

Also you are wrong. If someone does not want to take those steps, he can still work there (although illegally). The risks of getting caught are close to zero anyway. 

[Oceanbat]

 

 

 You still don't get it? Why would a country create a visa class for a small minority of people who don't add much value to the country. You argue against create a company and hiring thai people. So immediately you are not going to increase the availability of value added jobs for thai. You don't want to bring capital into the country because you don't have it or you say it's too "risky". You aren't going to increase a thai persons skills and move up the income chain. You claim you spend money but don't pay income tax so you aren't helping there.

Still don't get why you don't get a visa class of your own?

OB


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 

 
Please kindly point to any of my post where I said that there should be a visa accommodating the online workers.
Also, I am not arguing against creating a company and hiring people, I am repeating ad nauseam that this structure is incompatible with most online activities. 
I also didn't say bringing capital to the country was too risky or that I wanted it or not.
I also never claimed I was spending money or not paying income tax.
 
That's four erroneous assumption you gave me in a single post, that must be a record! If you were quoting the wrong post, apologies for the sarcastic tone 

You keep saying how opening a business and being an entrepreneur is incompatible with being an online worker.. It is not., it's simply more work than you wish to involve yourself in.

The rules are clear.. If you wish to engage in this type of work, that is how you should do it.. If you don't wish to take those steps, you cannot do that work here. It's hardly rocket science.
 

 
You have a right to have an opinion, but if you don't elaborate, it is worth nothing and it shows you don't want to have a discussion. I have already given plenty of examples where an online worker would not be able to give work to employees and where a company would be a complete waste of time and money.
 
Also you are wrong. If someone does not want to take those steps, he can still work there (although illegally). The risks of getting caught are close to zero anyway. 

So we've reached the conclusion if you are an online worker you can't legally stay long term in Thailand then?

OB


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[mrtoad]

SP not sure about The TGAU they are heavily sought after.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[pistachios]

So we've reached the conclusion if you are an online worker you can't legally stay long term in Thailand then?

OB


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

 

Pretty much, but if you can get and ED visa, marriage visa, elite card or any other way to stay long term in a country, then no problemo. Thaivisa geezers can stamp their little feet in rage and whine endlessly in the forum about those deadbeat farangs who are evading taxes and abusing the system, it ain't gonna change anything : those online workers couldn't care less and will keep doing what they do.

[SoFarAndNear]

Here is a question: If I wanted to go to, say Australia or the EU as an ASEAN citizen, and just settle down and work as a freelancer, would that be OK without requirement for certain documentation and work permits? If I arrived at the US as a tourist and want to just stay for a few years and do my online work, would that be supported by the government?

 

 

 

 

Yes it would. If the online worker get his money from abroad and would spend his full income in the US he would do that country a favour. Because his full income is coming abroad so his full income is flowing into the countries economy.

 

Example.

 

A foreign worker working in thailand for a thai company (most probably a teacher). He earns 50k THB . The money he earns is already in Thailand. So this is just domestic turnover in this country.

 

A foreigner online freelancer who gets 50k THB per month brings his full money to thailand. So this is a 50k THB absolutly plus +++++ for thai economy because it is foreign investment brought into the country. 

 

 

So who is better for thai economy?

[Oceanbat]

Here is a question: If I wanted to go to, say Australia or the EU as an ASEAN citizen, and just settle down and work as a freelancer, would that be OK without requirement for certain documentation and work permits? If I arrived at the US as a tourist and want to just stay for a few years and do my online work, would that be supported by the government?
 
 
 

 
Yes it would. If the online worker get his money from abroad and would spend his full income in the US he would do that country a favour. Because his full income is coming abroad so his full income is flowing into the countries economy.
 
Example.
 
A foreign worker working in thailand for a thai company (most probably a teacher). He earns 50k THB . The money he earns is already in Thailand. So this is just domestic turnover in this country.
 
A foreigner online freelancer who gets 50k THB per month brings his full money to thailand. So this is a 50k THB absolutly plus +++++ for thai economy because it is foreign investment brought into the country. 
 
 
So who is better for thai economy?

And they would pay income tax on that 50k they brought in, right?

OB


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand