No more Thai visa runs: Immigration will not let visa runners return after Aug 12

[Pattaya46]

[some one asked for an example ...I gave one ... and your excuse is? .....

No. Someone ask for an "example where a double entry tourist visa has been refused after a 7 day trip out".

No such "7 days period" in your example...

Where is the talk about eliminating the retirement visa?

There is no "retirement visa". How could they eliminate it?

[TheSiemReaper]

I'm wondering how this nonsense will apply to those of us who live next door (in Cambodia)... many of us come to Bangkok regularly throughout the year (normally on visa exemption) for a few days to enjoy "big city" life and stock up on the things we can't get in the Reap. Will we be accused of staying in Thailand because we have a hat full of visa-exempt or tourist visa stamps in our passports?

Initially, I think that's a possibility - the officers on the southern border appear to have over-reacted to the instructions they were given purely to 'send a message', but logic says that your exemptions will be separated by at least a month - that hardly lines up with their definition of a 'visa runner'. If anything, you could use your time here to advise those who seem to be looking at Cambodia as the alternative to Thailand, particularly the fellow who naively suggested in another thread that Cambo might be the 'Thailand' he wants to live in. Swings and roundabouts but we just want the swings

If you check the Cambodia section - I do offer advice on those who want to move this way... :-) Cambodia isn't Thailand (not even close despite the physical proximity) but it is a viable option for me.

[96tehtarp]

In other words

We only want illegal Khmer, Lao and Burmese workers, who work for peanuts in appalling conditions.

Not those pesky farang illegals who want more than locals.

The crackdown applies to all Aliens.

The Khmer, Lao and Burmese all need to get legal too. About a week ago 200,000 Cambodian nationals left Thailand to go home and get documented.

The Cambodian government even went so far as to slash the cost of passports in order to help them out.

At the immigration center in my jurisdiction 98% of the applicants are Khmer, Lao and Burmese. My estimate is 2% are farang.

Edited July 15, 2014 by 96tehtarp

[AYJAYDEE]

There's always a lot of spite in the expat community between those who "played the game properly" and those who didn't. I've never been sure why that is. Surely no-one really wants other expats arrested or their families broken up because someone didn't do their paperwork? I understand the point from the Thai government - immigration rules are immigration rules but not so much from others who are NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST BIT affected by the actions of the people they are so keen to wish misfortune on.

When I lived in China; I was, theoretically entitled to a spousal visa (long-term one), unfortunately the Chinese government decided to withdraw these for the period covering the Olympics, through the Asian Games and right up until the end of the Shenzhen Unversiade Games (a period of 4 years or so). I was left living on 1 year business visas because I could not get my real paperwork processed. Should I have been denied access to my wife and family because of that? Except for that I've been an expat for more than a decade now (in different countries) and have always held the correct visa paperwork (and in some cases - National ID too). We should strive to be legal because it's less of a headache than not being legal. We shouldn't condemn others for their choices unless we've spent some time walking in their shoes to understand their choices.

no one is condeming anyone for undone paperwork. its the folks that have been doing the 30 day visa exemption run that some seem so down on

[TheSiemReaper]

There's always a lot of spite in the expat community between those who "played the game properly" and those who didn't. I've never been sure why that is. Surely no-one really wants other expats arrested or their families broken up because someone didn't do their paperwork? I understand the point from the Thai government - immigration rules are immigration rules but not so much from others who are NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST BIT affected by the actions of the people they are so keen to wish misfortune on.

When I lived in China; I was, theoretically entitled to a spousal visa (long-term one), unfortunately the Chinese government decided to withdraw these for the period covering the Olympics, through the Asian Games and right up until the end of the Shenzhen Unversiade Games (a period of 4 years or so). I was left living on 1 year business visas because I could not get my real paperwork processed. Should I have been denied access to my wife and family because of that? Except for that I've been an expat for more than a decade now (in different countries) and have always held the correct visa paperwork (and in some cases - National ID too). We should strive to be legal because it's less of a headache than not being legal. We shouldn't condemn others for their choices unless we've spent some time walking in their shoes to understand their choices.

no one is condeming anyone for undone paperwork. its the folks that have been doing the 30 day visa exemption run that some seem so down on

That is undone paperwork. Visa running has long been a viable option in Thailand; they're only plugging the loophole now because they can afford to send the visa runners on their way now that Thailand is a stable(ish) middle-income nation.

[AYJAYDEE]

There's always a lot of spite in the expat community between those who "played the game properly" and those who didn't. I've never been sure why that is. Surely no-one really wants other expats arrested or their families broken up because someone didn't do their paperwork? I understand the point from the Thai government - immigration rules are immigration rules but not so much from others who are NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST BIT affected by the actions of the people they are so keen to wish misfortune on.

When I lived in China; I was, theoretically entitled to a spousal visa (long-term one), unfortunately the Chinese government decided to withdraw these for the period covering the Olympics, through the Asian Games and right up until the end of the Shenzhen Unversiade Games (a period of 4 years or so). I was left living on 1 year business visas because I could not get my real paperwork processed. Should I have been denied access to my wife and family because of that? Except for that I've been an expat for more than a decade now (in different countries) and have always held the correct visa paperwork (and in some cases - National ID too). We should strive to be legal because it's less of a headache than not being legal. We shouldn't condemn others for their choices unless we've spent some time walking in their shoes to understand their choices.

no one is condeming anyone for undone paperwork. its the folks that have been doing the 30 day visa exemption run that some seem so down on

That is undone paperwork. Visa running has long been a viable option in Thailand; they're only plugging the loophole now because they can afford to send the visa runners on their way now that Thailand is a stable(ish) middle-income nation.

we must be using different dictionaries

[kaorop]

I'm wondering how this nonsense will apply to those of us who live next door (in Cambodia)... many of us come to Bangkok regularly throughout the year (normally on visa exemption) for a few days to enjoy "big city" life and stock up on the things we can't get in the Reap. Will we be accused of staying in Thailand because we have a hat full of visa-exempt or tourist visa stamps in our passports?

The entry-exit stamp history you describe in your passport proves that you are not someone in the targeted group. You should have nothing to worry about.

the critical word being "should" but that's going to be at the whim of the border official at the time.

would think those nearby consulates budgets are going to take a serious hit,

if its correct that that revenue is theirs.

lets say ~100 X ~2000 = 200,000 bht per day, (just speculation) that's a big chunk of change

of course until word gets out to the tourists, the consulate will still issue visas with the full knowledge they wont be let back in.

[lostsoul49]

Basically...

If they are happy to refuse a nice new shiny unused 60 day visa at the border.....

Then there is no way they are going to have a problem refusing the second entry of an 60 day double that the holder has already enjoyed a decent length of time in the kingdom already from.

Ignore AYJAYDEE I doubt it makes any difference between new and unused and already 60 to 90 days used visa,... If anything coming for a second entry may prove to be the most dodgy.

But we shall soon see. I think everything will become clearer soon.

[jonesthebaker]

A lot of people are going to lose a lot. Including Thais. This is baby with bath water on steroids. Too inflexible and done too fast. It would be OK if there were now easier "real" visas, work permits, including legalization of online freelancing, etc. But there is not. On the condo market, no kidding, this is really bad for places like Pattaya. Cause and effect clearly not well considered on this one.

having lived in pattaya for over 20 years i dont know any condo owner that is a visa runner.

[96tehtarp]

no one is condeming anyone for undone paperwork. its the folks that have been doing the 30 day visa exemption run that some seem so down on

I'll add that it sure was a lot of fun doing those visa runs. I'll miss them. Some of my best memories in Thailand are from one of many trips to various border crossing getting my in-out 30 day exemptions. It was a hoot.

The OP confirms those days are over.

[AYJAYDEE]

A lot of people are going to lose a lot. Including Thais. This is baby with bath water on steroids. Too inflexible and done too fast. It would be OK if there were now easier "real" visas, work permits, including legalization of online freelancing, etc. But there is not. On the condo market, no kidding, this is really bad for places like Pattaya. Cause and effect clearly not well considered on this one.

having lived in pattaya for over 20 years i dont know any condo owner that is a visa runner.

that will depend on how they define visa runner. perhaps it will go as far as quick in/out trips on multiple entry visas someday!

[MrWorldwide]

@SiamReaper, apologies - I'll check the Cambodia section for your thoughts. I appreciate the posts you've made here, but I fear that your stance is far too logical and balanced for many of us. We seem way too intent on tearing a hole in one another's dreams than trying to suggest ways and means of working around the crackdown.

[CTO]

care to show ONE example where a double entry tourist visa has been refused after a 7 day trip out?

No one knows, that's the point, who wants to be the first?

[nev]

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

I hope so.

These guys should have thought about the correct visa before getting married and having kids.

A little forward planning/saving may have helped them here.

You hope that families are split up??

You are a dreadful person.

What about the kids losing their father.... their fault as well eh????

Your bitterness is unique and I m glad I don't think I have had to suffer meeting someone with your thought process.

Maybe one day we will see you back on here whining because your own category is being rinsed by the xenophobic Thai immigration.

My personal opinion is live and let live, these people are seldom terrible people whom probably do no harm to anyone, and you wish them a downfall??

More like Thailand needs rid of people like YOU!!!!

Excellent post, you have my friend have not lost your soul!!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Did anybody read this line in the story: "Visa runners are those who leave Thailand and return immediately for the purpose of extending their stay."

Seems pretty clear to me.

I hope you're right, Joe.

The only potential problem is, that language isn't a quote from any Immigration official or even put forward as a paraphrase of something any of them may have said.

It's simply the wording used by the "journalists" who wrote the article for The Nation -- language that may or may not be actually indicative of what Immigration plans to enforce.

And even if it's correct, as others have asked repeatedly over the past weeks, just how would "immediately" be defined by Immigration? Same day? Next day, 2 days? etc etc etc. I don't believe, in this latest round, we've ever heard any Immigration official specifically define that in terms of what their policy will be.

Who knows, might end up being a big boost for the hotel operators in the border checkpoint areas in adjoining countries, if the standard border run morphs into two or three day "extended weekend" stays.

Edited July 15, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[kaorop]

In other words

We only want illegal Khmer, Lao and Burmese workers, who work for peanuts in appalling conditions.

Not those pesky farang illegals who want more than locals.

The crackdown applies to all Aliens.

The Khmer, Lao and Burmese all need to get legal too. About a week ago 200,000 Cambodian nationals left Thailand to go home and get documented.

The Cambodian government even went so far as to slash the cost of passports in order to help them out.

At the immigration center in my jurisdiction 98% of the applicants are Khmer, Lao and Burmese. My estimate is 2% are farang.

yes just being a bit cheeky.

[jacko45k]

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

If they don't have enough money for the visa, I suspect they will not have enough to support a wife and children!

Perhaps a work permit and a job?

[BKS22]

It will be enforced for a few months, then like all the other vocal cannon fodder we've become accustomed to....it will slowly return to par for the course.

[96tehtarp]

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

No I don't think so.

A one year NON-IMM Multiple entry visa costs only 5000 baht and is valid for a year. A man who is married and or with children should be able to scratch that together. When in a real financial jam the married foreigner can always get a 60 day extension for the low price of 1900 baht.

What's clear is married people are no longer going to be able to live here using back to back visa except/tourist visa extensions.

No, they need to show 400,000 Bt per annum, or monthly equivalent.

You are referring to a visa extension. If you are on a non o multiple entry visa, you will have no problems re-entering, as they are cracking down on visa exempts and tourist visas. you should take your marriage certificate and 20k baht, just in case they ask, but you probably won't need it.

Correct.

Even if a married guy who has been living here on B2B tourist visas/exemptions can't get the cash together for the visa he can buy a 60 day extension of stay at immigration for 1900 baht based on his marriage, and then use the time to get his financial house in order.

Once the married guy gets his visa and or extension of stay in good order he can work in Thailand. Employment is not prohibited in his category of visa. His employer still needs to apply for a work permit on his behalf, however he is given preferential treatment by way of lighter requirements for his WP. Less capital and fewer Thai employees are required to hire the married guy than for others.

Married people should not be affected by the changes outlined in the OP.

Edited July 15, 2014 by 96tehtarp

[bifftastic]

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

No I don't think so.

A one year NON-IMM Multiple entry visa costs only 5000 baht and is valid for a year. A man who is married and or with children should be able to scratch that together. When in a real financial jam the married foreigner can always get a 60 day extension for the low price of 1900 baht.

What's clear is married people are no longer going to be able to live here using back to back visa except/tourist visa extensions.

No, they need to show 400,000 Bt per annum, or monthly equivalent.

That's not a visa, that's an extension of stay. If you have an extension of stay, what happens at borders need not affect you as you don't have to leave the country.

[nev]

Getting married and having a beautiful son is the best thing i ever did here, no more border runs and sweating on being let back in.

Back on topic i can see laos and Cambodia to start to become crowded as a lot of falang will find after being refused entry back here very hard to return to there own countries.

[Griffo63]

If you're likely to be effected by this then you already know it. You've either got a proper visa to live your life in Thailand or you haven't. If you haven't, then how's the time to act. You've had fair warning

[nidieunimaitre]

Did anybody read this line in the story: "Visa runners are those who leave Thailand and return immediately for the purpose of extending their stay."

Seems pretty clear to me.

+ 1 but not to some

Are you 100% sure this does not apply to a holder of a double entry tourist visa who does an out/in after 60 days?

Also, I read here somewhere that an official said that 30 days is enough for a real tourist.

[sumrit]

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

You only need 40K/month for a visa based on marriage or a kid. Even an English teacher makes that.

If somebody is working they should have a work permit so won't need an extension based on marriage to stay.

If they don't have a work permit they're working illegally so won't be able to declare their 40K/month income to get that marriage extension.

[hhgz]

"condos will be selling for peanuts soon"

How many condos are owned by tourist visa runners? Zero.

[ukrules]

I assume the Out/In that takes place on a double or triple entry tourist visa will not fit the criteria for refusal

You're assuming incorrectly.

[TheSiemReaper]

Getting married and having a beautiful son is the best thing i ever did here, no more border runs and sweating on being let back in.

Back on topic i can see laos and Cambodia to start to become crowded as a lot of falang will find after being refused entry back here very hard to return to there own countries.

I'd suggest that Laos isn't all that easy to stay in long-term (communist countries rarely are) and that Cambodia may well change the visa rules next year when the ASEAN community regulations come into effect. It is rumored that Cambodia will insist that you have at least one 1-year visa in your passport that has expired prior to the date of change in order for you to be able to continue renewing your visa here... so that may rule out those fleeing LoS this late in the day. Note, this is pure speculation at the moment but it's coming from connected folks who have a seat at the decision making table - so it's not impossible either.

[Pralaad]

What about non immig visa runs?

And I realize it's a silly and off topic question but who is going to teach English ?

Schools are not going to pay more and schools are not going to make WP.

How is Thailand going to be ready for ASEAN?

Immigration should really think this through and introduce new visa categories

[Pralaad]

"condos will be selling for peanuts soon"

How many condos are owned by tourist visa runners? Zero.

Says who?

[AYJAYDEE]

I assume the Out/In that takes place on a double or triple entry tourist visa will not fit the criteria for refusal

You're assuming incorrectly.

how do you know? has someone been turned away on the second or third entry of an existing visa?