Out-in visa hoppers now being barred from entry to Thailand

[AYJAYDEE]

I often read amongst those foreigners who are the talented influx in Thailand that why should I set up a company and have to hire 4 Thai persons to sit around and do nothing? And I think, that if you DID hire the right Thai persons, why would they have to sit around and do nothing if you are so interesting and possess such a wealth of international talent?

A young photographer, writer or designer with a capital of a few thousand dollars, limitless energy and some ideas ( often hair brained) doesn't need much support. They improvise. But they can't deal with setting up a Thai company (an epic nightmare) or permanently employing people.

But I'm not particularly batting for these people - because they will just move on. And they are moving on. What disturbs me is that the pool flexible, hip, edgy, talented, risk taking, energetic, creative people is diminishing. And that's not good for the cross pollination of ideas, creativity and even investment.

It's not good for the Thais either, because exposure to new ideas, skills and perspectives augments their capabilities. And a vibrant pool of interesting people is very stimulating for design and entertainment, which in time can mature into high end business's.

the problem being for every one of those allowed by the previous system, thailand got dozens of drones, which is NOT good for the thais.

Many a drone has been inspired by their enviroment.

Permit a free and easy bohemian environment and you'll cultivate talent, ideas and creativity.

Place restrictions, make things difficult, lots of laws, lots of crackdowns and you'll create a breeding ground for drones.

It just occurred to me....I think that's what might be behind this crackdown.

i disagree. the screw ups from home will screw up exponentially in thailand due to the lack of restrictions in the areas of alcohol and promiscuity. pattaya hasnt exactly been a cultural oasis.

[JLCrab]

I often read amongst those foreigners who are the talented influx in Thailand that why should I set up a company and have to hire 4 Thai persons to sit around and do nothing? And I think, that if you DID hire the right Thai persons, why would they have to sit around and do nothing if you are so interesting and possess such a wealth of international talent?

Because without falling into the xenophobe trap your obviously laying.. Finding 4 intelligent articulate service minded Thais, who can operate in an international market place, without the face and Thai way if doing things, isn't easy..

I have had to contract IT professionals in the last few years.. We dealt with Indians, Philippinos, and eastern euros.. Despite being here full time and lower labor rates.. Thais were not even in the running.

Then why are you doing IT here in Thailand in the first place? I'm not involved with IT in Thailand. When I boot Adobe Acrobat or Photoshop there are always several Thais listed among the 20 or so developers.

It just doesn't seem to me that the Thai Officialdom is inclined to modify Thai Visa and/or Immigration laws to make it easier for a non-Thai to set up shop in Thailand and to hire non-Thais because they claim they cannot find enough qualified Thais with the proper skills and work ethic.

Edited July 19, 2014 by JLCrab

[beautifulthailand99]

Does anybody have a rough idea of how many farangs are dependent on visa runs to stay in Thailand .Is it thousands, tens of thousands , hundreds of thousands ?

Wild guess but I'd say it's tens of thousands.

Crikey - then come August 12th and forwards it will surely be a huge story of international concern. The joyous schadenfreude of some on here says more about those that glory in others misery than it does of the motives of the many hapless fellows caught up in wanting to stay in Thailand for whatever reason.

[JLCrab]

I often read amongst those foreigners who are the talented influx in Thailand that why should I set up a company and have to hire 4 Thai persons to sit around and do nothing? And I think, that if you DID hire the right Thai persons, why would they have to sit around and do nothing if you are so interesting and possess such a wealth of international talent?

A young photographer, writer or designer with a capital of a few thousand dollars, limitless energy and some ideas ( often hair brained) doesn't need much support. They improvise. But they can't deal with setting up a Thai company (an epic nightmare) or permanently employing people.

But I'm not particularly batting for these people - because they will just move on. And they are moving on. What disturbs me is that the pool flexible, hip, edgy, talented, risk taking, energetic, creative people is diminishing. And that's not good for the cross pollination of ideas, creativity and even investment.

It's not good for the Thais either, because exposure to new ideas, skills and perspectives augments their capabilities. And a vibrant pool of interesting people is very stimulating for design and entertainment, which in time can mature into high end business's.

The mind-set of the Thai Officialdom is that all these creative people -- who obviously have found some reason that they want to stay in Thailand -- when they choose to stay here that there should be some transfer of technology or skills to similarly inclined Thai persons. If they say well in my current set-up I don;t need any support that any Thai person could give me that in their eyes defeats the purpose.

That may be self-defeating but I don't see it changing any time soon.

[AYJAYDEE]

I often read amongst those foreigners who are the talented influx in Thailand that why should I set up a company and have to hire 4 Thai persons to sit around and do nothing? And I think, that if you DID hire the right Thai persons, why would they have to sit around and do nothing if you are so interesting and possess such a wealth of international talent?

A young photographer, writer or designer with a capital of a few thousand dollars, limitless energy and some ideas ( often hair brained) doesn't need much support. They improvise. But they can't deal with setting up a Thai company (an epic nightmare) or permanently employing people.

But I'm not particularly batting for these people - because they will just move on. And they are moving on. What disturbs me is that the pool flexible, hip, edgy, talented, risk taking, energetic, creative people is diminishing. And that's not good for the cross pollination of ideas, creativity and even investment.

It's not good for the Thais either, because exposure to new ideas, skills and perspectives augments their capabilities. And a vibrant pool of interesting people is very stimulating for design and entertainment, which in time can mature into high end business's.

The mind-set of the Thai Officialdom is that all these creative people -- who obviously have found some reason that they want to stay in Thailand -- when they choose to stay here that there should be some transfer of technology or skills to similarly inclined Thai persons. If they say well in my current set-up I don;t need any support that any Thai person could give me that in their eyes defeats the purpose.

That may be self-defeating but I don't see it changing any time soon.

tourism and the arts are small potatoes compared to the manufacturing and agricultural industries and they DO transfer technology. i dont see the self defeating

[JLCrab]

'Diplomacy' has been described by some as the art of getting what you want. Telling a government that their population is under-qualified compared to the foreign nationals that could be brought in to do the job given more lenient visa/immigration policies may be true but also may do little help your cause.

[JDGRUEN]

Starting a business in Thailand would be a good way to live and work and have a visa to stay here. But as most know there are significant obstacles. As an American (under treaty) I am fortunate in that I could start a business in Thailand and do not have to have Thai partners. But I would still have to have the four employees. I don't want or need employees in the start up phase and this is not unusual. Thailand forces one to put the cart before the horse. I have started a business in America before and ran it for over twenty years. My start up was solo - adding employees only after revenues came in - which is quite common. If I had been forced to have four employees during start up - it would never have happened.

If a person has enough of his or her own money to form a Thai company (even without Thai partners) and can afford to pay for four employees and associated taxes plus other start up expenses - then it Thailand one does not need to start a business ... just live on the money one has.

I would like to start a small but unique business in Thailand (have a couple of good ideas I think) - so do I run out to a VC - venture capitalist? ... sure I can. But I won't get the money because as I found out by personal experience in America VCs do not loan money to bare start ups but only rarely. My business partner at the time was very connected in the VC arena and even he could not get it done.

So blithely telling 'on line workers' to just go out and start a business to legally justify his or her existence here in Thailand only demonstrates one's naivete. And folks it is just not helpful to utter such silliness.

By the way, I am not a young 'on line guy' and my business ideas are not 'on line' related ... I am just a older guy on a pension on an 'O' Visa making plans to get a business going for a number of reasons ... extra money is always nice - but being productive - running a business is in my blood ... so I will just keep poking away at it.

[NeverSure]

Many of the biggest chain businesses in the US (can't speak for other countries) grow their business by investing nothing in a new store. Costco and Walmart and Starbucks are notorious for it. They never have a dime in it. Let's take Costco.

Costco won't invest a dime in land, building, furnishings, fixtures or inventory. They find a land owner and get a build-to-suit lease. The lease says their first payment is due 90 days after they open.

They lease their furniture and fixtures and signs and all, right down to shelving and cash registers with their 1st payment due 90 days after they open.

Anyone who wants to sell inventory to Costco has to allow a 90 accounts receivable billing.

Costco has a relatively small expense of hiring and training staff just before they open, but it's mostly low tech and doesn't take long. They transfer a few experienced people in for the bakery, meat, etc.

So Costco basically gets to bank the first 90 days of gross receipts before one month's payment is due. From the other two months they more than recover any startup costs.

Most of that couldn't, but some of it could be done in Thailand. So get creative.

[freedomnow]

Though the title says "barred" do they not mean 'rejected upon an entry attempt' and they need to go get another visa or barred as in blacklisted ?

People should be OK leaving Thailand anyway I hope and not get profiled etc .....just the re-entry side may be problematic with extended tourist visa history.

This is such a PITA. I knew I should have got my ed. visa earlier.

Spent a ton here as well last year or so from my savings then they go and change the rules and retroactively classify anyone who has has stayed more than 6 months as "suspect."

Edited July 21, 2014 by freedomnow

[Thai at Heart]

So, a company with a regional office in Singapore, with European management now has to get business visas for everyone coming into the country on stamps at the airport.

Nice little earner for he embassy.

[stevenl]

So, a company with a regional office in Singapore, with European management now has to get business visas for everyone coming into the country on stamps at the airport.

Nice little earner for he embassy.

Yes, they do have to get visas if they're working in Thailand. That has not changed.

[seancbk]

Can someone define an O/I?

Does that literally mean enter Thailand on a 30 day stamp and then exit some time within 30 days? So if I visited in January for 3 weeks would that be one O/I? And if so then furthers trips to Thailand would be prohibited forever, if using 30 day stamps?

Or does it mean to leave Thailand and reenter the same day, obtaining a fresh 30 day stamp?

Or does it mean something else?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I wish people would write Out/In instead of O/I especially as some people feel need to also abbreviate Immigration Officer to IO.

An Out/In refers to any visa or visa exempt stamp where the person goes OUT and then comes back IN immediately, or in some cases back IN after just a couple of days.

Immigration will be looking for evidence that people are going OUT and IN regularly, which is a clear indication that the person is living in Thailand and therefore possibly working.

The talk of an actual Out/In stamp is based on a mention by immigration that anyone doing Out/In style travel maybe refused entry and a stamp to that effect would go in their passport.

I've not read any confirmation of exactly what the ramifications of this stamp might be, ie re-entry refusal for 3 months or longer.....

[IsaanUSA]

Does anybody have a rough idea of how many farangs are dependent on visa runs to stay in Thailand .Is it thousands, tens of thousands , hundreds of thousands ?

Wild guess but I'd say it's tens of thousands.

Crikey - then come August 12th and forwards it will surely be a huge story of international concern. The joyous schadenfreude of some on here says more about those that glory in others misery than it does of the motives of the many hapless fellows caught up in wanting to stay in Thailand for whatever reason.

LOL, I can see the headline now. "Illegal migrants barred from entering Thailand"

Oh, the humanity!

A mixture of 500,000 legal and illegal residents recently returned to their home (Cambodia) and it didnt even make the international news.

Nobody in the world cares if a few thousand guys can't get back to their condos in Chonburi.

Also you can't just "stay in Thailand for whatever reason". You are either a tourist, a retiree, a husband or a worker.

[tomtom345]

why don't thai authorities simply target citizens of poor countries , cambodia myanmar india sub saharan african countries etc.?

why lump citizens of rich countries with citizens of poor countries?

it doesn't make sense .

[IsaanUSA]

why don't thai authorities simply target citizens of poor countries , cambodia myanmar india sub saharan african countries etc.?

why lump citizens of rich countries with citizens of poor countries?

it doesn't make sense .

Why don't we just execute citizens from poor countries. The world would be a better place without them, right?

Just because you are from Qatar doesn't mean you are free to do whatever you want in the world.

[61guitarman61]

I would wager that embassy and consulates are processing higher a than average number of lost passport requests in light of the visa crackdown... A clean passport gives you a clean start at the borders...

No,a new passport will NOT give you a clean start at the borders Thai immigration entered the digital world a decade ago.

I've never had an border agent check their computer for any data. All data for their determination of legitimacy comes from the pages of the passport. Even in western countries entry scans only show criminal flags on the passport number, not historic entry/exit data, or visa status. And if we know anything about Thais, if the technology involved is not on their iPhone or Galaxy S5, it does not exist. I won't be the one to test the theory, but I would bet that a clean passport would make a difference at most border checkpoints.

[Maestro]

why don't thai authorities simply target citizens of poor countries , cambodia myanmar india sub saharan african countries etc.?

why lump citizens of rich countries with citizens of poor countries?

it doesn't make sense .

From the OP:

On May 13, the then-national head of Immigration, Lt Gen Pharnu Kerdlarpphon explained to The Phuket News, “Lots of nationalities come to Thailand on tourist visas but they come to work. I really want them to do the right thing, not to try to dodge around the law and evade taxes.”

With the exception of manual labour from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia, the Alien Working Act B.E. 2551 (2008) applies equally to the nationals of all foreign countries.

[DrTuner]

Does anybody have a rough idea of how many farangs are dependent on visa runs to stay in Thailand .Is it thousands, tens of thousands , hundreds of thousands ?

Wild guess but I'd say it's tens of thousands.

Crikey - then come August 12th and forwards it will surely be a huge story of international concern. The joyous schadenfreude of some on here says more about those that glory in others misery than it does of the motives of the many hapless fellows caught up in wanting to stay in Thailand for whatever reason.

LOL, I can see the headline now. "Illegal migrants barred from entering Thailand"

Oh, the humanity!

A mixture of 500,000 legal and illegal residents recently returned to their home (Cambodia) and it didnt even make the international news.

Nobody in the world cares if a few thousand guys can't get back to their condos in Chonburi.

Also you can't just "stay in Thailand for whatever reason". You are either a tourist, a retiree, a husband or a worker.

Actually, I think a couple of dozen deported condo owners would make a headline. Nobody cares about Cambodian workers.

[Christie Paul]

Does anybody have a rough idea of how many farangs are dependent on visa runs to stay in Thailand .Is it thousands, tens of thousands , hundreds of thousands ?

Wild guess but I'd say it's tens of thousands.

Crikey - then come August 12th and forwards it will surely be a huge story of international concern. The joyous schadenfreude of some on here says more about those that glory in others misery than it does of the motives of the many hapless fellows caught up in wanting to stay in Thailand for whatever reason.

And a lot of them aren't the sharpest tools in the shed either. Do they imagine their position will be unaffected? Plans are a afoot, make no doubt about it to tighten up retiree regulations. Upping bank deposit requirements - banning borrowing. Instituting fresh criminal background checks for visa renewals. And in the background we will hear the chorus, albeit a little fainter of:

If you don't like the rules get out. It's about time. I'm all for more rules and regulations, the more the better. I've always said "A fair days bloody work, for a fair days bloody pay".

[Enjoyurlife]

why don't thai authorities simply target citizens of poor countries , cambodia myanmar india sub saharan african countries etc.?

why lump citizens of rich countries with citizens of poor countries?

it doesn't make sense .

Don't they have poor people in rich countries? Or do they get rid of them?