Scores of foreigners refused entry to Thailand at Malaysian border

[KarenBravo]

Hospitality industry caters to real tourists that are not affected by the new enforcement of the rules.

Okay, let's change the Immigration rules so that a few dozen visa run drivers don't lose their jobs.

[PoorSucker]

I'm not going to try to guess figures, but living on Samui, quite a few. Some are on tourist visas, some on Ed visas, but they are long term stayers. At the moment there doesn't seem to be an option for them, so it appears that they have to make plans to leave. And yes, they are big spenders - kids in International school, bought cars, etc.

If they have kids in school the kids can get non-ed visa and extensions, one parent per child can get matching extensions as dependent.

[kaobang]

Hospitality industry caters to real tourists that are not affected by the new enforcement of the rules.

Okay, let's change the Immigration rules so that a few dozen visa run drivers don't lose their jobs.

oh please

full moon party is place for thousands of those visa runners who will never apply for a tourist visa at the embassy.

or koh tao..or koh phi phi

people who travels around south east asia

they just will go somewhere else

Edited July 16, 2014 by kaobang

[imjustagirl]

I just set up my company so I'm lucky to have just missed this... but I was told something odd by the lawyer....i was told that if I wanted a work permit I had to apply in Singapore or Australia! Given I am British and currently in London this is extremely inconvenient. They told me that practically all embassies except these two would refuse a work permit visa for a new company!

So to me it would appear that even getting everything in order, setting up a business - its still tough getting a visa..... or is this lawyer having me on. It would have avoided a trip to Singapore next month just to get a visa I should have been able to get in UK.

It seems ridiculous, you can set up a company but you are not allowed to work in your own company until its established...say what????? By the way this is a big Thai firm that advertises on here..... anyone got experience of this?

The visa and the work permit are two different things totally and handled by two different Government departments. You need to recheck what was said or find another lawyer.

This was sunbelt... they told me to get the non-o based on a new company would be impossible in uk, and elsewhere. I know you get a visa first with docs of company to then apply for work permit in thailand...so apparently embassies not issuing non o visas for future wp applications for new companies, must be established... seems nuts to me.

Perhaps this is something new as well????

Just to clarify that I did not misunderstand them... here is the notification

Hi xxxxxx

I have spoken with our Visa team and they have informed me that they no longer recommend Non Immigrant Visa applications in the UK especially for newly formed Companies.

All applications in the UK are now re-routed to the Thai Embassy in London, which have proven to be stricter than Thai Consulates elsewhere. The main stumbling block here though is the requirement of the WP3 documnet which is a pre Work Permit confirmation. This document is only available if the company is already registered on the social security system. (The 4 Thai employees already registered).

I believe we have 2 options here:

1. Upon your departure from the UK, you travel to either Singapore or Australia (Adelaide or Melbourne) to apply at the Thai Consulates there. These consulates do not have this WP3 requirement and are much more lenient in handing out the Visa. You then travel into Thailand where we move on to the Work Permit Application.
2. You acquire a 90 day Tourist Visa from the Thai Embassy in London. We then deal with the conversion to the Non immigrant (90 days) as well as the subsequent 1 year extensions in country. Please however note that this option is not recommended for newly formed companies, as its easier to acquire the Visa at the Consulate than it is at the Immigration department in Thailand as well.

I completely understand that option 1 above may cause inconvenience with regards to both cost and travel plans. Please however note that it remains the safest and most efficient way to acquire the Non Immigrant Business Visa without any complication.

Im getting more and more convinced Thailand doesn't want us (or our money) anymore!!!!

[KarenBravo]

Those people at full-moon parties are tourists. They can get a tourist visa or arrive on visa exempt.

I can assure you Chicken Little, the sky is not going to fall.

[larsjohnsson]

Whatever!

Of course there is a very large contingent of visarunners.

But many of them are NOT working.

This is another sign that Thailand is getiing on the wrong track.

If it gets known that Thai visa's are not worth the money you pay for it, this will have a negative effect on "real" tourists.

Besides this bad effect, what about the loss of capital, loss of jobs?

I know a guy, 42, swimming in his money....well ok, wading, a visa runner.

Spends around 2-3 million baht a year.

He will probably not get a visa any more.

Byebye!

If he is swimming in money. And spends millions every year. Then 500k for a 5 years visa is peanuts for him.

[kaobang]

Those people at full-moon parties are tourists. They can get a tourist visa or arrive on visa exempt.

I can assure you Chicken Little, the sky is not going to fall.

this only assures me how selfish you are

[Timwin]

Hospitality industry caters to real tourists that are not affected by the new enforcement of the rules.

Okay, let's change the Immigration rules so that a few dozen visa run drivers don't lose their jobs.

Most retirees are on tourist visas and live in condos owned mostly by foreigners. They start selling, the values start plummeting. The Thai middle class is very thin and surely not able to pay the same prices as other foreigners. All potential foreign buyers in the past started with back to back tourist visas.

Most other countries want young people to move in, not old geezers. Try moving to Australia from US or EU when you are 60 and not that rich. Not possible. It is all *ss backwards in Thailand.

[KarenBravo]

Those people at full-moon parties are tourists. They can get a tourist visa or arrive on visa exempt.

I can assure you Chicken Little, the sky is not going to fall.

this only assures me how selfish you are

Facts aren't "selfish".

The majority of those young party goers are not long-stay tourists. They come usually for less than a month and time it so that they catch a full-moon party.

[YangYaiEric]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

That's an easy one, (Western tourist only):

1. A genuine Western tourist usually arrives via international air borders.
2. The difference between last visit and new visit should be > 6 months.
3. A return ticket to country of origin should be in the tourist's possession, to be shown to immigration.

I'm sure others can think of other ways to determine a true western tourist...

[kaobang]

Those people at full-moon parties are tourists. They can get a tourist visa or arrive on visa exempt.

I can assure you Chicken Little, the sky is not going to fall.

this only assures me how selfish you are

Facts aren't "selfish".

The majority of those young party goers are not long-stay tourists. They come usually for less than a month and time it so that they catch a full-moon party.

no.

they stay more than 1 month and travel around(Laos and Cambodia,or Malaysia)

[mjj]

Does anyone have any idea on the numbers of the people that are going to be affected?

[Radar501]

I have crossed Sadao Immigration many times over the years, and always been less than happy to pay the 'compulsory' 10 baht service fee each time. Is Immigration still demanding the payments?

Maybe Lt. Col Banphot Kittivarathe is less concerned about that kind of illegal activity going on at his checkpoint.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Radar501

[KarenBravo]

Those people at full-moon parties are tourists. They can get a tourist visa or arrive on visa exempt.

I can assure you Chicken Little, the sky is not going to fall.

this only assures me how selfish you are

Facts aren't "selfish".

The majority of those young party goers are not long-stay tourists. They come usually for less than a month and time it so that they catch a full-moon party.

no.

they stay more than 1 month and travel around(Laos and Cambodia,or Malaysia)

If that is the case, then they can get a 60 day tourist visa and before they leave Thailand, get a re-entry permit from immigration.

See.......there are ways to do stuff if you are a genuine tourist.

[Just1Voice]

Hospitality industry caters to real tourists that are not affected by the new enforcement of the rules.

Okay, let's change the Immigration rules so that a few dozen visa run drivers don't lose their jobs.

Most retirees are on tourist visas and live in condos owned mostly by foreigners. They start selling, the values start plummeting. The Thai middle class is very thin and surely not able to pay the same prices as other foreigners. All potential foreign buyers in the past started with back to back tourist visas.

Most other countries want young people to move in, not old geezers. Try moving to Australia from US or EU when you are 60 and not that rich. Not possible. It is all *ss backwards in Thailand.

Most retirees are on tourist visas and live in condos owned mostly by foreigners. B.S. I know a LOT of retirees here in CNX, and every one of them has Retirement + Extension, and not a single one is on a tourist visa.

You might try doing some actual research before spouting "facts" you know nothing about.

[arunsakda]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

That's an easy one, (Western tourist only):

• A genuine Western tourist usually arrives via international air borders.
• The difference between last visit and new visit should be > 6 months.
• A return ticket to country of origin should be in the tourist's possession, to be shown to immigration.

I'm sure others can think of other ways to determine a true western tourist...

1. OK that makes sense

2. Says who? I don't work in the US. I'm on a small boring Pacific island. Every with month a large block

of consecutive days OFF. Who says last visit should be >6 months? You should check the relevant regulation

concerning visa exempt arrivals. Wealthy guys from Singapore fly in to Golf almost every weekend.

3. I have never been asked to show onward ticket by Immigration, in fact since my first visit in 1997 I have

NEVER been asked anything at all, not once. Every country in the world has a regulation that tourists show sufficient

funds and onward ticket. Usually it is applied selectively on a case by case basis by Immigration.

For example I noticed at Japanese airports they usually hassle Iranians and Africans, who are known for overstay and other

infractions in that particular jurisdiction. Yes it's racist but that is just the way it is.

Edited July 16, 2014 by arunsakda

[Just1Voice]

True story from US Customs. Thai woman in my moo ban, late 30's, married, 2 kids. Her Thai husband has been in the U.S. long enough to get a green card and has very good employment. Her and kids have not seen him in years and want to come visit. Go to U.S. Consulate in CNX and are approved for visa for visiting family. Everyone is excited. They get to LAX and that is far as SHE got. When they ran her passport her name popped up and they asked if she was related to so-and-so. "Yes, they are my parents". Entry Denied for her. Turns out parents had been arrested and convicted for human trafficking. She was stuck in LAX until her husband and his boss could come and try to sort things out. Customs finally allowed the kids to enter so they could be with dad, but she was told to go home. Now she is here alone, as husband kept the kids, filed for divorce and has remarried.

[larsjohnsson]

You get visa runners and visa runners, at present everyone is handled the same. You get the runners at the lower end of the scale that stay in Thailand to survive financialy, you get runners that work here illegaly and compete with Thai's for jobs, you get runners that work here illegaly but do jobs that don't compete with Thai's for jobs (running websites in their home countries etc.), you get runners that is or was involved in crimminal activities and you get runners that stay in Thailand during the winter season (3 to 6 months of the year) to escape the cold in their home countries and because they like Thailand. The new rules will chase away the good and the bad, which I think is a result of the lack of understanding by authorities of the complexity of their own country's tourism. Under the present laws what they are doing is correct, but the question is if the laws are correct. Why not start a 6 month visa that cost B 10 000 per person (just an example) and visa applicants must supply proof of funds and medical cover. Why not have a foreign work visa that allows for people in the IT business to stay in Thailand but do work back in their home countries? These 2 groups are the bigger spenders and should be accommodated. I played around with some numbers, let say there are 200 000 such "tourists" in the country at any given time and they spend on average B 100 000 per month, thats B 240 bn per year that could be lost for the economy. With the present downturn in tourism and the economy I think that the timing of this clampdown is ill advised. Would it not have been better to get rid of the unwanted elements while retaining the wanted tourists?

If these 2 groups are the big spenders. And have a lot if money like you say. Why should they then have cheaper visas and WP than others ??

[YangYaiEric]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

That's an easy one, (Western tourist only):

• A genuine Western tourist usually arrives via international air borders.
• The difference between last visit and new visit should be > 6 months.
• A return ticket to country of origin should be in the tourist's possession, to be shown to immigration.

I'm sure others can think of other ways to determine a true western tourist...

1) OK that makes sense

2) Says who? I don't live/work in the US. I'm on a small boring island. Every month I have 12 days OFF

consecutively. Who says last visit should be >6 months? You should check the relevant regulation

concerning visa exempt arrivals.

3) I have never been asked to show onward ticket by Immigration, in fact since my first visit in 1997 I have

NEVER been asked anything at all.

2) I'm sure that someone in your situation, vis-a-vis your days off work, are in the minority, and that the VAST majority of true western tourists do not fit into this category.

3) I think the new government will soon introduce this requirement to sort-out the wheat from the chaff!

Edited July 16, 2014 by YangYaiEric

[HUAHIN62]

You get visa runners and visa runners, at present everyone is handled the same. You get the runners at the lower end of the scale that stay in Thailand to survive financialy, you get runners that work here illegaly and compete with Thai's for jobs, you get runners that work here illegaly but do jobs that don't compete with Thai's for jobs (running websites in their home countries etc.), you get runners that is or was involved in crimminal activities and you get runners that stay in Thailand during the winter season (3 to 6 months of the year) to escape the cold in their home countries and because they like Thailand. The new rules will chase away the good and the bad, which I think is a result of the lack of understanding by authorities of the complexity of their own country's tourism. Under the present laws what they are doing is correct, but the question is if the laws are correct. Why not start a 6 month visa that cost B 10 000 per person (just an example) and visa applicants must supply proof of funds and medical cover. Why not have a foreign work visa that allows for people in the IT business to stay in Thailand but do work back in their home countries? These 2 groups are the bigger spenders and should be accommodated. I played around with some numbers, let say there are 200 000 such "tourists" in the country at any given time and they spend on average B 100 000 per month, thats B 240 bn per year that could be lost for the economy. With the present downturn in tourism and the economy I think that the timing of this clampdown is ill advised. Would it not have been better to get rid of the unwanted elements while retaining the wanted tourists?

If these 2 groups are the big spenders. And have a lot if money like you say. Why should they then have cheaper visas and WP than others ??

If you would read again you will see that I said "for example" and for the work permit I didnt suggest any cost. According to my knowledge a normal tourist visa and a work permit is also less than B 10 000.

[Timwin]

Most retirees are on tourist visas and live in condos owned mostly by foreigners. B.S. I know a LOT of retirees here in CNX, and every one of them has Retirement + Extension, and not a single one is on a tourist visa.

You might try doing some actual research before spouting "facts" you know nothing about.

"In terms of total numbers, there are 7,000 Britons in the city on retirement visas but they are joined by tens of thousands of other UK seniors who come on regular tourist visas and renew them periodically (the British Embassy estimates 870,000 people from the UK came to Thailand last year on tourist visas). "

http://blogs.channel4.com/world-news-blog/rethinking-retirement-thailands-capital-sleaze/26649

Edited July 16, 2014 by Timwin

[larsjohnsson]

You get visa runners and visa runners, at present everyone is handled the same. You get the runners at the lower end of the scale that stay in Thailand to survive financialy, you get runners that work here illegaly and compete with Thai's for jobs, you get runners that work here illegaly but do jobs that don't compete with Thai's for jobs (running websites in their home countries etc.), you get runners that is or was involved in crimminal activities and you get runners that stay in Thailand during the winter season (3 to 6 months of the year) to escape the cold in their home countries and because they like Thailand. The new rules will chase away the good and the bad, which I think is a result of the lack of understanding by authorities of the complexity of their own country's tourism. Under the present laws what they are doing is correct, but the question is if the laws are correct. Why not start a 6 month visa that cost B 10 000 per person (just an example) and visa applicants must supply proof of funds and medical cover. Why not have a foreign work visa that allows for people in the IT business to stay in Thailand but do work back in their home countries? These 2 groups are the bigger spenders and should be accommodated. I played around with some numbers, let say there are 200 000 such "tourists" in the country at any given time and they spend on average B 100 000 per month, thats B 240 bn per year that could be lost for the economy. With the present downturn in tourism and the economy I think that the timing of this clampdown is ill advised. Would it not have been better to get rid of the unwanted elements while retaining the wanted tourists?

If these 2 groups are the big spenders. And have a lot if money like you say. Why should they then have cheaper visas and WP than others ??

If you would read again you will see that I said "for example" and for the work permit I didnt suggest any cost. According to my knowledge a normal tourist visa and a work permit is also less than B 10 000.

You did suggest a special designed WP for a job that is not allowed to do here unless you invest a lot of money. Not 10k.

And your special visa was a much bettet visa than a tourist visa. And a visa that allows working.

If they are so rich and are the biggest spenders here. Then they can afford to pay like other people have to do

[gregk0543]

I live in Myanmar and go to Thailand up to 6 times per year for medical treatment, shopping,visiting relatives. Cumulative total stay for last 12 months is maybe 2.5 months.

So I am thinking that the criteria for a real tourist is they spend more time in another country than in Thailand.

[larsjohnsson]

Hospitality industry caters to real tourists that are not affected by the new enforcement of the rules.

Okay, let's change the Immigration rules so that a few dozen visa run drivers don't lose their jobs.

Most retirees are on tourist visas and live in condos owned mostly by foreigners. They start selling, the values start plummeting.

I'm sure you are wrong. I don't know any retirees from my home country living here on tourist visas. Why would they do that? It would cost them more money. And they also have to do a lot more border/visa runs.

[Wanderlust]

I just set up my company so I'm lucky to have just missed this... but I was told something odd by the lawyer....i was told that if I wanted a work permit I had to apply in Singapore or Australia! Given I am British and currently in London this is extremely inconvenient. They told me that practically all embassies except these two would refuse a work permit visa for a new company!

So to me it would appear that even getting everything in order, setting up a business - its still tough getting a visa..... or is this lawyer having me on. It would have avoided a trip to Singapore next month just to get a visa I should have been able to get in UK.

It seems ridiculous, you can set up a company but you are not allowed to work in your own company until its established...say what????? By the way this is a big Thai firm that advertises on here..... anyone got experience of this?

The visa and the work permit are two different things totally and handled by two different Government departments. You need to recheck what was said or find another lawyer.

This was sunbelt... they told me to get the non-o based on a new company would be impossible in uk, and elsewhere. I know you get a visa first with docs of company to then apply for work permit in thailand...so apparently embassies not issuing non o visas for future wp applications for new companies, must be established... seems nuts to me.

Perhaps this is something new as well????

Just to clarify that I did not misunderstand them... here is the notification

Hi xxxxxx

I have spoken with our Visa team and they have informed me that they no longer recommend Non Immigrant Visa applications in the UK especially for newly formed Companies.

All applications in the UK are now re-routed to the Thai Embassy in London, which have proven to be stricter than Thai Consulates elsewhere. The main stumbling block here though is the requirement of the WP3 documnet which is a pre Work Permit confirmation. This document is only available if the company is already registered on the social security system. (The 4 Thai employees already registered).

I believe we have 2 options here:

1. Upon your departure from the UK, you travel to either Singapore or Australia (Adelaide or Melbourne) to apply at the Thai Consulates there. These consulates do not have this WP3 requirement and are much more lenient in handing out the Visa. You then travel into Thailand where we move on to the Work Permit Application.
2. You acquire a 90 day Tourist Visa from the Thai Embassy in London. We then deal with the conversion to the Non immigrant (90 days) as well as the subsequent 1 year extensions in country. Please however note that this option is not recommended for newly formed companies, as its easier to acquire the Visa at the Consulate than it is at the Immigration department in Thailand as well.

I completely understand that option 1 above may cause inconvenience with regards to both cost and travel plans. Please however note that it remains the safest and most efficient way to acquire the Non Immigrant Business Visa without any complication.

Im getting more and more convinced Thailand doesn't want us (or our money) anymore!!!!

Hi imjustagirl,

A few years ago I was all set to get a work permit but a cock up by the Thai Embassy in London left me with the wrong visa (one that stated 'Employment Prohibited' despite me informing them of what it was for!), so I had to go to Ranong, get the visa cancelled and come back in to Thailand on a 30 day visa exempt; this was then converted to a non immigrant visa within Thailand and my work permit could go through. So option 2 is possible as your lawyer says, and I don't remember it being much hassle. The company wasn't newly formed though, so I can't comment on whether that makes a difference. It is probably worth making enquiries (on here would be a good start) as to where you can get the Visa that they are telling you is only available in Singapore or Australia - I'm pretty sure I have heard of people getting a Non B in Laos but these things do change. Good luck with it anyway.

[boike]

Plenty people on here see these people as scum that "we" should get rid of

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[HUAHIN62]

You get visa runners and visa runners, at present everyone is handled the same. You get the runners at the lower end of the scale that stay in Thailand to survive financialy, you get runners that work here illegaly and compete with Thai's for jobs, you get runners that work here illegaly but do jobs that don't compete with Thai's for jobs (running websites in their home countries etc.), you get runners that is or was involved in crimminal activities and you get runners that stay in Thailand during the winter season (3 to 6 months of the year) to escape the cold in their home countries and because they like Thailand. The new rules will chase away the good and the bad, which I think is a result of the lack of understanding by authorities of the complexity of their own country's tourism. Under the present laws what they are doing is correct, but the question is if the laws are correct. Why not start a 6 month visa that cost B 10 000 per person (just an example) and visa applicants must supply proof of funds and medical cover. Why not have a foreign work visa that allows for people in the IT business to stay in Thailand but do work back in their home countries? These 2 groups are the bigger spenders and should be accommodated. I played around with some numbers, let say there are 200 000 such "tourists" in the country at any given time and they spend on average B 100 000 per month, thats B 240 bn per year that could be lost for the economy. With the present downturn in tourism and the economy I think that the timing of this clampdown is ill advised. Would it not have been better to get rid of the unwanted elements while retaining the wanted tourists?

If these 2 groups are the big spenders. And have a lot if money like you say. Why should they then have cheaper visas and WP than others ??

If you would read again you will see that I said "for example" and for the work permit I didnt suggest any cost. According to my knowledge a normal tourist visa and a work permit is also less than B 10 000.

You did suggest a special designed WP for a job that is not allowed to do here unless you invest a lot of money. Not 10k.

And your special visa was a much bettet visa than a tourist visa. And a visa that allows working.

If they are so rich and are the biggest spenders here. Then they can afford to pay like other people have to do

Why cant a person stay here and do a work electronically in another country? It is not competing with Thai workers. Take for example a friend of mine which works for a Singapore company, he design websites for them. Instead of staying in Singapore he stayed here and did all his work electronically. They will be leaving Thailand next week to settle in Vietnam, where they can get a 1 year tourist visa for +- B 5000. What Thailand will be losing is his monthly rental of B 30k and other monthly expenditure of B 50k. Or the case of a Russian friend that owns several houses (inherited from his parents) in Russia which provides him a monthly income. He is only 45 years old and dont qualify for a retirement visa. He and his family is leaving this week for Russia. In both these examples the people are no burden on Thailand and are spending more money here than the average tourist, but the first guy cant get a wp and the 2nd guy cant get a retirement visa. These are the people that now have been grouped together with financially strained people.

[boike]

I wonder how All the self righteous people on here and other threads will react when they start with your tyoe of visa. You're literary cheering the misery of these people of whom most have the means to stay here and don't work or do any crime.Of course Thailand has the right to enforce their immigration laws but dont talk about these people like you're better then them. Immigration will move to the othet type of visas because also those were not always properly enforced/checked. E.g. people borrowing the 400k or 800kSent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

Who's cheering?Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Plenty people on here see these people as scum that "we" should get rid of

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[sometimewoodworker]

If a married bloke needs 400k, how much does a tourist?

If applying in japan.

8. An original copy of bank statement showing the balance at the amount equal to no less than 20,000 Baht per person and 40,000 Baht per family.

[sometimewoodworker]

Why cant a person stay here and do a work electronically in another country?

Because it is against the Thai law.

Their country, their laws