Tourist visa and winter stay in Thailand

[watgate]

This will be my 5th year of wintering in Thailand (primarily Chiang Mai) and I am from the USA. I usually stay anywhere from 4- 6 months and have obtained a triple-entry tourist visa. This year I am planning on staying for 5 months, and as in the past, I was either going to do a border run or visit another country to utilize my other entries on my tourist visa. I was leaning toward doing a border run because in previous years I had already visited Laos and Cambodia. Now my concern is if I am going to have a problem extending my stay for my 5 months in Thailand this winter with the crackdown going into effect in August? I will have a return airline ticket reservation and anyone scrutinizing my passport would see that in the past years, I have come to Thailand in the winter months with a tourist visa and returned back to the USA each time after being here for 3-5 months. Do I have to make other arrangements, and if so, what would you suggest, or am I safe to assume that I should be alright with my triple-entry tourist visa this winter?

[ubonjoe]

I suggest you make your trip as planned. I don't think you will have a problem because you will not have a history as a visa runner and will be a tourist.

Nobody really knows for sure how all these changes will be done but it is not meant to hurt tourists like you or should I call you a snow bird.

[roxnadz]

This is good to know, as I, too, am a snowbird who is too young to qualify for a Non-OA.

My question is, where are you getting your triple entry? I've gone the double-entry route with a bounce for 30 additional days on each entry. Bernard in LA usually only issues doubles for my partner and me but I will see if he can issue a triple next time.

[guavagirl]

I think because you get a visa from your home country (and always have) you will be fine. The problem seems to be for the people arriving by land from bordering countries.

[BusyB]

I think because you get a visa from your home country (and always have) you will be fine. The problem seems to be for the people arriving by land from bordering countries.

I certainly hope so. I'm planning exactly the same as OP, and have done every 2 years or so for the last 10 years. I've also done shorter trips mostly with TR visa. I've only a couple of visa exempt stays - only done 1 border run, and 1 immi extension on a 60 day entry with visa. I had a 3 day overstay once after extension 5 or 6 years ago. My last trip was late April to late May. Was planned for 33 days, so I got a single entry TR here in my home country, to avoid wasting time with immi extensions etc or overstay - pretty much same price but added peace of mind.

Now I'm planning on entering with 3x entry issued in home country in November. Return booking in February. I'll be renting a house for 3 months through a friend, so I won't have a receipt but I will have an address. Planning a trip with Stray Asia in Laos - again, book when I'm there so no receipt. Same for a Burma dive trip, don't know exact dates or company - I'll book on gut feeling and availability.

However I can show I don't work in LOS - and certainly wouldn't swap my current situation to become a struggling English teacher (though I'd probably do quite well at it). Let's hope common sense prevails. I'll let you know what happens.

Yes, I am something of a snow bird if that means a refugee from European winter.

Edited July 17, 2014 by BusyB

[klfopera]

I do the same (3 entry visa which I get in Boston USA). Stay about 4.5 months. Only 2 are needed but I get an extra one just in case I need to go out of country unexpectedly. Usually I go by air and return in a few days (Singapore, Laos). Once I did a round trip in one day to KL. Only once did I go out/in by land. That was to Ranong. I did that because I have a very close friend in Ranong who has a plantation there so it was convenient way to take care of the second entry and visit him. I was hoping to do this every year. I sure hope the optimists here are correct.

[Tim207]

I think there are quite a few of us in the same boat. I won't be back until november so I am hoping the situation works itself out before then. For the first time in over a decade I am wondering if I will end up somewhere other than Thailand. I plan to carry a southeast asia travel guide in case I am denied at the airport. At least I will be prepared if I find myself stuck somewhere else for a while. Bumming around asia beats freezing in the midwest but I would much rather be hanging out with friends and adopted family in Thailand.

10 years in the same town around 5 living in the same place 5 months per year, nobody considers me a tourist but I hope ubonjoe is right and immigration sees me as a tourist. I am not even sure what tourist means anymore. Maybe I am one, I sure hope so.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Tim207

[jeanno]

I m actually in Thailand on tourist visa. I got it in switzerland and stay here for 6 months. Triple entries visa. Do this everyyear as u. Today i went my ambassy to ask and immigration office in chaeng watana. They both said no problem. Can cross boarder and come back.

[slipperylobster]

A tourist is anyone who does not live/and/or/work in Thailand. Owning condos and such, and long staying means you are not a tourist, but a part time resident. Hard to prove otherwise.

Granted, some people tour for 4-6 months. That would mean you would be traveling to several locations during that time, and mainly staying at a hotel/apartelle or something with a month to month lease.

Intent to leave would be a ticket home.

Intent to not work would be having money in cash, and money in the bank.

You would want proof of all the above. Carry recent bank statements, proof of income, a letter from the consulate, printed tickets out of Thailand, Signed letter and receipt from the hotel you are booked at.

If you have not back to back border runs/visa runs and do not have consecutive tourist visas....you should be ok

[AYJAYDEE]

A tourist is anyone who does not live/and/or/work in Thailand. Owning condos and such, and long staying means you are not a tourist, but a part time resident. Hard to prove otherwise.

Granted, some people tour for 4-6 months. That would mean you would be traveling to several locations during that time, and mainly staying at a hotel/apartelle or something with a month to month lease.

Intent to leave would be a ticket home.

Intent to not work would be having money in cash, and money in the bank.

You would want proof of all the above. Carry recent bank statements, proof of income, a letter from the consulate, printed tickets out of Thailand, Signed letter and receipt from the hotel you are booked at.

If you have not back to back border runs/visa runs and do not have consecutive tourist visas....you should be ok

hour definition of tourist does not match the generally accepted one. tourists the world over own condos and houses in foreign countries for their holidays and as rentals when empty. governments are very specific as to who qualifies as a resident and who doesnt and it has nothing to do with condo ownership

[slipperylobster]

A tourist is anyone who does not live/and/or/work in Thailand. Owning condos and such, and long staying means you are not a tourist, but a part time resident. Hard to prove otherwise.

Granted, some people tour for 4-6 months. That would mean you would be traveling to several locations during that time, and mainly staying at a hotel/apartelle or something with a month to month lease.

Intent to leave would be a ticket home.

Intent to not work would be having money in cash, and money in the bank.

You would want proof of all the above. Carry recent bank statements, proof of income, a letter from the consulate, printed tickets out of Thailand, Signed letter and receipt from the hotel you are booked at.

If you have not back to back border runs/visa runs and do not have consecutive tourist visas....you should be ok

hour definition of tourist does not match the generally accepted one. tourists the world over own condos and houses in foreign countries for their holidays and as rentals when empty. governments are very specific as to who qualifies as a resident and who doesnt and it has nothing to do with condo ownership

It is just harder to prove that you are a tourist if you own a condo/home through corporation methods, etc. Yes, other countries are more amenable to vacation homes....but remember....Thailand has it's own idea of what a tourist is..vice a part time/or full time resident. Much different here than in other countries...because of the quick crack down.

[AYJAYDEE]

A tourist is anyone who does not live/and/or/work in Thailand. Owning condos and such, and long staying means you are not a tourist, but a part time resident. Hard to prove otherwise.

Granted, some people tour for 4-6 months. That would mean you would be traveling to several locations during that time, and mainly staying at a hotel/apartelle or something with a month to month lease.

Intent to leave would be a ticket home.

Intent to not work would be having money in cash, and money in the bank.

You would want proof of all the above. Carry recent bank statements, proof of income, a letter from the consulate, printed tickets out of Thailand, Signed letter and receipt from the hotel you are booked at.

If you have not back to back border runs/visa runs and do not have consecutive tourist visas....you should be ok

hour definition of tourist does not match the generally accepted one. tourists the world over own condos and houses in foreign countries for their holidays and as rentals when empty. governments are very specific as to who qualifies as a resident and who doesnt and it has nothing to do with condo ownership

It is just harder to prove that you are a tourist if you own a condo/home through corporation methods, etc. Yes, other countries are more amenable to vacation homes....but remember....Thailand has it's own idea of what a tourist is..vice a part time/or full time resident. Much different here than in other countries...because of the quick crack down.

so far I have seen nothing from the government that says that condo ownership mens youre not a tourist.

[slipperylobster]

Having a permanent residence without the right visa would definitely be a red flag. There was a thread just yesterday of somebody that had problems.

[AYJAYDEE]

Having a permanent residence without the right visa would definitely be a red flag. There was a thread just yesterday of somebody that had problems.

red flag but not enough ON ITS OWN to disqualify.

[slipperylobster]

Having a permanent residence without the right visa would definitely be a red flag. There was a thread just yesterday of somebody that had problems.

red flag but not enough ON ITS OWN to disqualify.

Agreed... Not an automatic denial of entry.. But requires more tap dancing in front of immigration.

[johnsjourney]

I have been to Chiang Mai immigration today to see a staff member I know personally rather than the normal counter (which is extremely quiet compared to the past dozen years). I have been here half the time over the last few years on triple tourist visas, including a Mae Sai day as recently as last November (to give me the two more days I needed using the last tourist visa). I stay in UK for 4-5 months each time and spend the rest of the time touring the world.

They were very interested that I had never overstayed.

The response was no problem no change, would I like an extension now, or just go to Mae Sai, that I am not a visa runner in their view.

Big relief I have to say and will listen first hand from immigration in future even over a national newspaper or events at borders I don't use.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[PJcm]

This is good to know, as I, too, am a snowbird who is too young to qualify for a Non-OA.

My question is, where are you getting your triple entry? I've gone the double-entry route with a bounce for 30 additional days on each entry. Bernard in LA usually only issues doubles for my partner and me but I will see if he can issue a triple next time.

The honorary counsel in Oregon issues triple entry tourist visas, try him.

[VINCENT2012]

go to an ambassy and explain what you want to do and then get the right visa.

thats it

[BusyB]

I have been to Chiang Mai immigration today to see a staff member I know personally rather than the normal counter (which is extremely quiet compared to the past dozen years). I have been here half the time over the last few years on triple tourist visas, including a Mae Sai day as recently as last November (to give me the two more days I needed using the last tourist visa). I stay in UK for 4-5 months each time and spend the rest of the time touring the world.

They were very interested that I had never overstayed.

The response was no problem no change, would I like an extension now, or just go to Mae Sai, that I am not a visa runner in their view.

Big relief I have to say and will listen first hand from immigration in future even over a national newspaper or events at borders I don't use.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks for the info JJ. Sounds very hopeful. I'll certainly be touching base with immi before I cross any borders out of LOS on my winter sojourn as well.

Edited July 17, 2014 by BusyB

[max72]

I think because you get a visa from your home country (and always have) you will be fine. The problem seems to be for the people arriving by land from bordering countries.

There will be problems at the airports too, although they would probably try to limit the refusal because evident costs.

I am in a similar situation like that american guy and I am very worried/sadden for this witch hunt.

Rumors are spreading with hundreds different versions, like 6 months every two years and you are a potential suspect.

I have spent 7 months in the past 2 years in Thailand, how could a people in his mind suspect I am working in Thailand ???

How much vacation would I have ??

This is insane.

I can show my ticket back of course, but I can't show much money, because I spend 20-30K USD and I can't carry this money with me, i have credit cards, including a golden credit card.

I am worried because I own a condo in Thailand (not a costly condo,) I use it few months a year and i bought it because there is a swimming pool, gym, all facilities few floors from my unit. 1 minute ride by lift from my room. I also bought 1 month before the euro collapsed (it was 49 for 1 baht) and i gained a lot with the exchange rate. Everything 100% legal, but this paranoic Thais might think I am not a real tourist because i own a condo, when they sold it to me legally.

I mean, this is unfair, people who are fine could have problems while I am sure most of the abusers will still be lounging around illegaly with their ED, O, investment visas.

I heard if you have spent more than 6 months in 2 years, you will have a red flag in your passport, like if you are faithful tourist (customer for the Thai tourism industry) is a sin. Is that red flag a thank you Thailand gives to you for choosing it again ?

I don't want any red stamp in my passport. I am a honest guy and I can't stand this discrimination. For what ? Because I come back and i spend 10 times more money than the average 1 month last-minute tourist ?

Well done Thailand !

[max72]

A tourist is anyone who does not live/and/or/work in Thailand. Owning condos and such, and long staying means you are not a tourist, but a part time resident. Hard to prove otherwise.

Granted, some people tour for 4-6 months. That would mean you would be traveling to several locations during that time, and mainly staying at a hotel/apartelle or something with a month to month lease.

Intent to leave would be a ticket home.

Intent to not work would be having money in cash, and money in the bank.

You would want proof of all the above. Carry recent bank statements, proof of income, a letter from the consulate, printed tickets out of Thailand, Signed letter and receipt from the hotel you are booked at.

If you have not back to back border runs/visa runs and do not have consecutive tourist visas....you should be ok

hour definition of tourist does not match the generally accepted one. tourists the world over own condos and houses in foreign countries for their holidays and as rentals when empty. governments are very specific as to who qualifies as a resident and who doesnt and it has nothing to do with condo ownership

It is just harder to prove that you are a tourist if you own a condo/home through corporation methods, etc. Yes, other countries are more amenable to vacation homes....but remember....Thailand has it's own idea of what a tourist is..vice a part time/or full time resident. Much different here than in other countries...because of the quick crack down.

so far I have seen nothing from the government that says that condo ownership mens youre not a tourist.

That would be absolutely outrageous.

Why did the sold me a condo while I had my normal tourist visa than ?

They said "no problem no problem. Dai, dai (can, can)"

So it would be a stab in your back now if by owning a condo they see you as a not genuine tourist.

What is the bloody genuine tourist ???

A low class worker who catch the last minute all including tour for 800 euro ? (with all my respects for the workers who can't afford more than this), or somebody who comes back and spend 20-30K every winter in 3-4 months ?

[hawker9000]

'Trouble is, the decision to permit or deny you entry rests with an immigration officer, whose discretionary powers are now becoming infamous. And what will the TV headline be tomorrow? "Immigration official says condo owners not tourists: TV holders refused entry at <???>" ? If you could go back and read through the threads (way too many of them and they've grown way too long to be able to go back and do that now), you'd find several members who believe ANYONE who stays as long as this OP, or owns property, CANNOT BE a "tourist" and should NOT be using Tourist Visas. If so many expats believe that, why shouldn't the odd IO believe it?

But I agree with others' recommendations here. Bring along bank statements, utility bills, your return ticket confirmation, etc. to show where you really DO live and really DO source your income, that it's OUTSIDE of Thailand, to show the IO if asked. It may take a few minutes of your time, and hopefully won't ever even be necessary, but can't hurt.

And I have a question. If you are, say, a condo owner, who reports your checking in and checking out there each time you arrive & depart? Does the alien owner have some reporting requirement with the local immigration office or police to file a report himself when he comes back each time, as a hotel or guest house would for him if he were checking in & staying there?

[AYJAYDEE]

'Trouble is, the decision to permit or deny you entry rests with an immigration officer, whose discretionary powers are now becoming infamous. And what will the TV headline be tomorrow? "Immigration official says condo owners not tourists: TV holders refused entry at <???>" ? If you could go back and read through the threads (way too many of them and they've grown way too long to be able to go back and do that now), you'd find several members who believe ANYONE who stays as long as this OP, or owns property, CANNOT BE a "tourist" and should NOT be using Tourist Visas. If so many expats believe that, why shouldn't the odd IO believe it?

But I agree with others' recommendations here. Bring along bank statements, utility bills, your return ticket confirmation, etc. to show where you really DO live and really DO source your income, that it's OUTSIDE of Thailand, to show the IO if asked. It may take a few minutes of your time, and hopefully won't ever even be necessary, but can't hurt.

And I have a question. If you are, say, a condo owner, who reports your checking in and checking out there each time you arrive & depart? Does the alien owner have some reporting requirement with the local immigration office or police to file a report himself when he comes back each time, as a hotel or guest house would for him if he were checking in & staying there?

when I arrive at our house after a trip out of the country, my wife reports to the local police station as required.

Edited July 17, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[hawker9000]

'Trouble is, the decision to permit or deny you entry rests with an immigration officer, whose discretionary powers are now becoming infamous. And what will the TV headline be tomorrow? "Immigration official says condo owners not tourists: TV holders refused entry at <???>" ? If you could go back and read through the threads (way too many of them and they've grown way too long to be able to go back and do that now), you'd find several members who believe ANYONE who stays as long as this OP, or owns property, CANNOT BE a "tourist" and should NOT be using Tourist Visas. If so many expats believe that, why shouldn't the odd IO believe it?

But I agree with others' recommendations here. Bring along bank statements, utility bills, your return ticket confirmation, etc. to show where you really DO live and really DO source your income, that it's OUTSIDE of Thailand, to show the IO if asked. It may take a few minutes of your time, and hopefully won't ever even be necessary, but can't hurt.

And I have a question. If you are, say, a condo owner, who reports your checking in and checking out there each time you arrive & depart? Does the alien owner have some reporting requirement with the local immigration office or police to file a report himself when he comes back each time, as a hotel or guest house would for him if he were checking in & staying there?

when I arrive at our house after a trip out of the country, my wife reports to the local police station as required.

Yes, but not really what I'm asking. What happens if you're just a single condo owner arriving at his condo for the winter, like the OP. That's my question.

[paz]

This will be my 5th year of wintering in Thailand (primarily Chiang Mai) and I am from the USA.

...

Winter in North America begins in about 5 months. It's pointless to worry now. Everything can change and no action has to be taken now.

[AYJAYDEE]

'Trouble is, the decision to permit or deny you entry rests with an immigration officer, whose discretionary powers are now becoming infamous. And what will the TV headline be tomorrow? "Immigration official says condo owners not tourists: TV holders refused entry at <???>" ? If you could go back and read through the threads (way too many of them and they've grown way too long to be able to go back and do that now), you'd find several members who believe ANYONE who stays as long as this OP, or owns property, CANNOT BE a "tourist" and should NOT be using Tourist Visas. If so many expats believe that, why shouldn't the odd IO believe it?

But I agree with others' recommendations here. Bring along bank statements, utility bills, your return ticket confirmation, etc. to show where you really DO live and really DO source your income, that it's OUTSIDE of Thailand, to show the IO if asked. It may take a few minutes of your time, and hopefully won't ever even be necessary, but can't hurt.

And I have a question. If you are, say, a condo owner, who reports your checking in and checking out there each time you arrive & depart? Does the alien owner have some reporting requirement with the local immigration office or police to file a report himself when he comes back each time, as a hotel or guest house would for him if he were checking in & staying there?

when I arrive at our house after a trip out of the country, my wife reports to the local police station as required.

Yes, but not really what I'm asking. What happens if you're just a single condo owner arriving at his condo for the winter, like the OP. That's my question.

according to this an alien has a responsibility to report anytime he arrives in a province.

tm28 notice of residence after 2 hr.pdf

[slipperylobster]

so far I have seen nothing from the government that says that condo ownership mens youre not a tourist.

A tourist is anyone who does not live/and/or/work in Thailand. Owning condos and such, and long staying means you are not a tourist, but a part time resident. Hard to prove otherwise.

Granted, some people tour for 4-6 months. That would mean you would be traveling to several locations during that time, and mainly staying at a hotel/apartelle or something with a month to month lease.

Intent to leave would be a ticket home.

Intent to not work would be having money in cash, and money in the bank.

You would want proof of all the above. Carry recent bank statements, proof of income, a letter from the consulate, printed tickets out of Thailand, Signed letter and receipt from the hotel you are booked at.

If you have not back to back border runs/visa runs and do not have consecutive tourist visas....you should be ok

hour definition of tourist does not match the generally accepted one. tourists the world over own condos and houses in foreign countries for their holidays and as rentals when empty. governments are very specific as to who qualifies as a resident and who doesnt and it has nothing to do with condo ownership

It is just harder to prove that you are a tourist if you own a condo/home through corporation methods, etc. Yes, other countries are more amenable to vacation homes....but remember....Thailand has it's own idea of what a tourist is..vice a part time/or full time resident. Much different here than in other countries...because of the quick crack down.

That would be absolutely outrageous.

Why did the sold me a condo while I had my normal tourist visa than ?

They said "no problem no problem. Dai, dai (can, can)"

So it would be a stab in your back now if by owning a condo they see you as a not genuine tourist.

What is the bloody genuine tourist ???

A low class worker who catch the last minute all including tour for 800 euro ? (with all my respects for the workers who can't afford more than this), or somebody who comes back and spend 20-30K every winter in 3-4 months ?

This was just posted on Thai Visa

"It would not be advisable to show proof of property ownership or long term rental agreements on condos or houses as this would suggest that you are not a bona fide tourist and are planning to stay in Thailand long term."