Visa crackdown: Is this the end of the road for unqualified ESL teachers in Thailand?

[amse]

There are certain word letter sounds that are not in the Thai language, So a Thai person has to start learning proper English at a very young age, like 2 years old, to be able to master these sounds for proper word pronunciation.

[dotpoom]

Last time we heard about cleaning the immigration status of illegal workers, it was about the Cambodian nationals => they went back home but Thais realized they badly needed them => Cambodians came back.

Same story here? No => Thais DON'T NEED English teachers from abroad because millions Thais speak a perfect English and can teach to the children.

 

Somehow I doubt that very much. Not many native English speakers can even speak (or write) perfect English....if in doubt, just have a look at the grammar and spelling on this forum (and that's with the assistance of a "corrector"). I can easily read your own post Enzo....but it is hardly written in perfect Englisn.

[englishoak]

If there is a good teacher, regardless of training or degrees, that person should be paid well, and should have a Work Permit/work visa.  He/she must not be put into the position of doing visa runs even for a decade before, and not now either.

 

There exists a well established method to teach here....... it is called a WORK PERMIT.  "Schools" that want to get by on the cheap should be closed or fulfill the law.

 

Today the situation will soon need to address unintended consequences of the end of the visa run......

-subsidize genuine English language schools to afford their teachers and their teachers' work permits.

-establish crash course to upgrade Thai citizen teachers' English ability by giving them scholarships to go to professional development courses offered by good colleges.

 

The real problem is the "warm body" in a classroom.  People drop into Thailand and discover that just because they can talk English they can subsist and slip thru the cracks in visa regs.  What a great deal !  Talk English, which you already do, and then you can stay in Thailand.  Those are not TEACHERS, they are English talkers.

 

I taught English writing and grammar at U of Georgia to Americans already able to handle English so so, but I know that teaching English to Thai whose language has no parallels to English is totally DIFFERENT.  I tried and failed and quit that.  Teaching Thai people requires many abilities and skills way, way, way, beyond being able to talk English.  Those who can only talk English are not offering an effective vital service;  they are simply delaying or retarding Thai trying to really learn (that is a split infinitive, btw) .

 

So moan not.....  if the end of visa runs also runs out the English talkers, great !  Thailand should not be gipped by these talkers.  Not a real loss.

 

Your not going to get rural schools paying well, ever. if you can get the Thai to pay top salary then maybe it would be valid, but thats not going to happen up country. It just sounds to me like your being elitist whilst ignoring the vast majority of schools that are simple basic and short of funds. They cant afford it. 

 

Grammar is one thing and talking is another your right, Cambodians especially are are way ahead and the majority learn it with contact experience and school. The teachers there are no worse or better than here but the kids do far better. Sorry but if your trying to say Thailand is special id disagree. The only thing special in Thailand is its students lack of ability to knuckle down and learn because they pass anyway.  Im no teacher but my brother in law speaks better pronounced English than most Thai with an English accent and hes had nothing but me to practice on and tourists and my daughter. Gets compliments all the time and plenty of repeat work due to it.  Grammar isnt great but he needs to communicate to make a living not write letters or a book. As do many Thai. Yes ive been breaking the law and teaching in my home.... wooo criminal   

 

A 5 year old dosnt need a degree class teacher or even an adult that needs to communicate to make a living it just needs someone with fluency and practice and pronunciation of words, a native English speaking  person with good TEFL training can teach that. no need for a degree at all imo.  Bore them to tears with grammar and no conversation and they switch off, engage them and make it fun and they light up. Rocket science it isnt. The teaching aspect as they get older needs the top qualified yes but the young ones or ones needing to make a living with it spoken no.

 

Work permits are all well and good but they dont allow most teachers to work outside the school they are contracted to either, another waste of good available resources already in country working. If you teach private you are breaking the law, are you trying to tell me you have never once done an English lesson outside of your employers workplace or knowledge ? Id find that hard to believe. 

[casualbiker]

They could always get qualified here in Thailand.  There are several options.

 

what options that Krusapha will still allow waivers while attaining?

[casualbiker]

 

 

Don't most countries have qualifications and working visa requirements for teachers? What's wrong with Thailand doing the same?
 
OT: I am just going to take a wild guess here: unqualified students with ED visas of convenience will be next in the clearing out.

In case you have only just woken up, it comes down to money, qualified people can make more in other countries, why come to Thailand and settle for maybe 30000 baht a month. Thailand needs english teachers more than english teachers needing Thailand. Hope this isn't to hard for you to understand.

But they need "real" english teachers

 

 

Please tell us what YOU think is a " real " English teacher?

[wolf5370]

There are certain word letter sounds that are not in the Thai language, So a Thai person has to start learning proper English at a very young age, like 2 years old, to be able to master these sounds for proper word pronunciation.

Sure it helps, but it is not a truism. The same way we learn to do the "Eur" sound and "Ng" at the beginning of a word, Thais can learn to pronounce English phonemes. It just takes teaching them properly about tongue/teeth/lip placement/shape and about practise - both in speech and listening. It is not just the old "L", "R" problem, but "F", "V" / "B", "P" / "S", "SH", "CH", "Z" / and so on. There is also the problems with the sheer amount of vowel sounds in English (20+ from 5 vowels - plus 'y' occasionally). The biggest hurdle is probably the Thai alphabet - it doesn't cater well for transliteration of English words (mostly due to limited consonant endings in Thai).

[wolf5370]

 

 

 

Don't most countries have qualifications and working visa requirements for teachers? What's wrong with Thailand doing the same?
 
OT: I am just going to take a wild guess here: unqualified students with ED visas of convenience will be next in the clearing out.

In case you have only just woken up, it comes down to money, qualified people can make more in other countries, why come to Thailand and settle for maybe 30000 baht a month. Thailand needs english teachers more than english teachers needing Thailand. Hope this isn't to hard for you to understand.

But they need "real" english teachers

 

 

Please tell us what YOU think is a " real " English teacher?

 

 

A degree in English, a PGCE and several years experience teaching English in a school setting - so very few of the "qualified" English teachers here :)

[wolf5370]

 

They could always get qualified here in Thailand.  There are several options.

 

what options that Krusapha will still allow waivers while attaining?

 

You would get a Non Imm O Ed for doing a degree here. Would take about a decade or more to get ROI though!

[casualbiker]

If there is a good teacher, regardless of training or degrees, that person should be paid well, and should have a Work Permit/work visa.  He/she must not be put into the position of doing visa runs even for a decade before, and not now either.

 

There exists a well established method to teach here....... it is called a WORK PERMIT.  "Schools" that want to get by on the cheap should be closed or fulfill the law.

 

Today the situation will soon need to address unintended consequences of the end of the visa run......

-subsidize genuine English language schools to afford their teachers and their teachers' work permits.

-establish crash course to upgrade Thai citizen teachers' English ability by giving them scholarships to go to professional development courses offered by good colleges.

 

The real problem is the "warm body" in a classroom.  People drop into Thailand and discover that just because they can talk English they can subsist and slip thru the cracks in visa regs.  What a great deal !  Talk English, which you already do, and then you can stay in Thailand.  Those are not TEACHERS, they are English talkers.

 

I taught English writing and grammar at U of Georgia to Americans already able to handle English so so, but I know that teaching English to Thai whose language has no parallels to English is totally DIFFERENT.  I tried and failed and quit that.  Teaching Thai people requires many abilities and skills way, way, way, beyond being able to talk English.  Those who can only talk English are not offering an effective vital service;  they are simply delaying or retarding Thai trying to really learn (that is a split infinitive, btw) .

 

So moan not.....  if the end of visa runs also runs out the English talkers, great !  Thailand should not be gipped by these talkers.  Not a real loss.

 

This is a really good post. You have ALL the required qualifications to teach here in Thailand and yet you admit you failed, Others who do not meet the required qualifications have successfully taught at the same school for many years . And yet you state . Not a real loss! 

 

Those same teachers HAVE been working on correct Visa's and work permits but NOW due to further changes cannot !

[bangrak]

What about all the, many, NON native English speakers, a vast majority knowing very little, when any, usable English, who stay in Thailand with a, renewable, 1 year, 'education visa' SCAM(!!!) (one stamp every 3 months...!), having no teaching training or experience at all, many not even following the compulsory Thai language classes, and about none intending ever to take a job as a teacher? Why do they pay for it d'you think? To work here without working permit, period! Shouldn't those people be the first ones targeted, and evicted from the country, before somewhere-ish bona fide teachers having a job at a school? And also the Thai companies authorised(?!?) to sell those scam visas be taken out, together with the numerous 'shady' Farangs promoting the stuff (without work permit of course) for  a 'x',000.- fee per unit sold, getting the boot! First things first!

[wolf5370]

 

If there is a good teacher, regardless of training or degrees, that person should be paid well, and should have a Work Permit/work visa.  He/she must not be put into the position of doing visa runs even for a decade before, and not now either.

 

There exists a well established method to teach here....... it is called a WORK PERMIT.  "Schools" that want to get by on the cheap should be closed or fulfill the law.

 

Today the situation will soon need to address unintended consequences of the end of the visa run......

-subsidize genuine English language schools to afford their teachers and their teachers' work permits.

-establish crash course to upgrade Thai citizen teachers' English ability by giving them scholarships to go to professional development courses offered by good colleges.

 

The real problem is the "warm body" in a classroom.  People drop into Thailand and discover that just because they can talk English they can subsist and slip thru the cracks in visa regs.  What a great deal !  Talk English, which you already do, and then you can stay in Thailand.  Those are not TEACHERS, they are English talkers.

 

I taught English writing and grammar at U of Georgia to Americans already able to handle English so so, but I know that teaching English to Thai whose language has no parallels to English is totally DIFFERENT.  I tried and failed and quit that.  Teaching Thai people requires many abilities and skills way, way, way, beyond being able to talk English.  Those who can only talk English are not offering an effective vital service;  they are simply delaying or retarding Thai trying to really learn (that is a split infinitive, btw) .

 

So moan not.....  if the end of visa runs also runs out the English talkers, great !  Thailand should not be gipped by these talkers.  Not a real loss.

 

Your not going to get rural schools paying well, ever. if you can get the Thai to pay top salary then maybe it would be valid, but thats not going to happen up country. It just sounds to me like your being elitist whilst ignoring the vast majority of schools that are simple basic and short of funds. They cant afford it. 

 

Grammar is one thing and talking is another your right, Cambodians especially are are way ahead and the majority learn it with contact experience and school. The teachers there are no worse or better than here but the kids do far better. Sorry but if your trying to say Thailand is special id disagree. The only thing special in Thailand is its students lack of ability to knuckle down and learn because they pass anyway.  Im no teacher but my brother in law speaks better pronounced English than most Thai with an English accent and hes had nothing but me to practice on and tourists and my daughter. Gets compliments all the time and plenty of repeat work due to it.  Grammar isnt great but he needs to communicate to make a living not write letters or a book. As do many Thai. Yes ive been breaking the law and teaching in my home.... wooo criminal   

 

A 5 year old dosnt need a degree class teacher or even an adult that needs to communicate to make a living it just needs someone with fluency and practice and pronunciation of words, a native English speaking  person with good TEFL training can teach that. no need for a degree at all imo.  Bore them to tears with grammar and no conversation and they switch off, engage them and make it fun and they light up. Rocket science it isnt. The teaching aspect as they get older needs the top qualified yes but the young ones or ones needing to make a living with it spoken no.

 

Work permits are all well and good but they dont allow most teachers to work outside the school they are contracted to either, another waste of good available resources already in country working. If you teach private you are breaking the law, are you trying to tell me you have never once done an English lesson outside of your employers workplace or knowledge ? Id find that hard to believe. 

 

"Grammar is one thing and talking is another your right," - Oh the irony

 

I do agree with your sentiments though :)

Edited July 17, 2014 by wolf5370

[wabothai]

I doubt it whether a country school is really in need of technical/grammar english. Be nice when the kids start to learn some basic conversation.

[englishoak]

Told you im not an English teacher nor have any wish to be 

[draftvader]

 

 

English is in fact the official language of India).

English is not in fact the official language of India. According to the 1950 constitution, Hindi written in Devanagari script is.

Though English is widely used in officialdom, there is a strong nationalist movement to phase it out. Perhaps most obvious to the outsider are the name changes of Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, Mysore, Cochin - all replaced with Hindi names.

 

The good folk of Madras  or  Chennai do NOT speak Hindi    Tamil is there language.

 

 

Whilst those in Kerala (Kochi/Cochin) speak Malayalam and those in Karnataka (Mysore) speak Kannada.  Both are considered the 1st languages of those states.  Most people in those states will speak either/and Hindi and English.  There are 22 languages spoken in India in total with law being applicable in both Hindi and English.

 

Curiously English is also legal in Thailand if both parties can be proved to understand the language concerned.

Edited July 17, 2014 by draftvader

[casualbiker]

 

 

 

But they need "real" english teachers

 

 

Please tell us what YOU think is a " real " English teacher?

 

 

A degree in English, a PGCE and several years experience teaching English in a school setting - so very few of the "qualified" English teachers here

 

 

And according to Krusapha they would STILL not be qualified to get a teachers licence here in Thailand! Good init?

[casualbiker]

With a degree in hotel management and seeing quite a bit of improvement possibilities in Thai hotels, i really would like to teach hotel staff a few things. But i am not allowed to.

Horse behind the car !!!!

 

Don't teach in a school. Look at the universities that major in Hotel management you don't need a teachers licence or BA'ed if you work for a Uni. 

[Gsxrnz]

 

What is better.... Thailand filled with native English speaking teachers without degrees teaching VERY BASIC English, or Thailand filled with Filipinos and Indians with degrees teaching basic English?

 

Indians and Philippinos teaching English in preference to Native English speakers.................Frightening is'nt it !
 

 

 

 

Thailand is looking to become the next "call centre" hub of the world.

 

The ability to speak English with an Indian or Fillipino accent is a pre-requisite. 

 

And when the staff get sick of answering phones all day and want a career change, they'll slide easily into the 7/11 shop assistant roles.

 

I can see heads wobbling already. 

Edited July 17, 2014 by Gsxrnz

[thesetat2013]

Last time we heard about cleaning the immigration status of illegal workers, it was about the Cambodian nationals => they went back home but Thais realized they badly needed them => Cambodians came back.
Same story here? No => Thais DON'T NEED English teachers from abroad because millions Thais speak a perfect English and can teach to the children.

 
Somehow I doubt that very much. Not many native English speakers can even speak (or write) perfect English....if in doubt, just have a look at the grammar and spelling on this forum (and that's with the assistance of a "corrector"). I can easily read your own post Enzo....but it is hardly written in perfect Englisn.

What an idiotic comment to make. I, like others are using phones and dont worry about small typos or insignificant grammar mistakes as long as the point is made and understood. This is not a classroom nor a english testing forum.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Bernard Flint]

LETS BE HONEST GUYS

 

A big proportion of uk guys who teach with a tefl course,dont have a work permit, and have spoilt it for many people 

[AYJAYDEE]

LETS BE HONEST GUYS

 

A big proportion of uk guys who teach with a tefl course,dont have a work permit, and have spoilt it for many people 

and given kids in poor rural schools at least SOME english. worth it.

[thesetat2013]

I doubt it whether a country school is really in need of technical/grammar english. Be nice when the kids start to learn some basic conversation.

There are more technical schools in rural areas than im the suburbs.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[gbswales]

The answer for Thailand is simple - you apply the visa rules to people who are not useful to Thailand (ie those who run scams or criminal enterprises) and find loopholes for the people who are useful (teachers etc and of course people of sufficient means to live and spend in Thailand or who have family or relationships).  The problem has been that the system which has existed until now was based on corruption and payment which gives easy access to the wrong kind of long term visitors.  Base the system on common sense rather than money and it could work much better.

[Tanlic]

Anyone who thinks losing any English teacher here is a good thing, is bonkers.

 

My ex won some annual award for speaking English in public.

 

It was no small award every college in Bangkok had a representaive.

 

ok enough of that.

 

The point is she used to bring home loads of paperwork, from her Thai English teacher, for me to check.

 

I am no genius when it comes to grammer but most of what her teacher was teaching her and her classmates was not of this planet

 

The amount of incorrect words used to decribe situations and circumstances were mindboggling

 

It seemed to me they would translate a Thai word to English get a few different choices and pick one with a pin.

 

One I remember was...."We gone together to see penquins in zoological collectively"

 

Of course they are good Thai teachers teaching English here, but I reckon they need all the help they can get.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Tanlic

[brewsterbudgen]

Please tell us what YOU think is a " real " English teacher?

 
A degree in English, a PGCE and several years experience teaching English in a school setting - so very few of the "qualified" English teachers here

 
However, there are plenty of qualified TEFL teachers, which is what this thread is mainly about.

[englishoak]

 

 

Please tell us what YOU think is a " real " English teacher?

 
A degree in English, a PGCE and several years experience teaching English in a school setting - so very few of the "qualified" English teachers here

 

 
However, there are plenty of qualified TEFL teachers, which is what this thread is mainly about.

 

 

Not for much longer

[Fairynuff]

A few months back I was in a small town upcountry heading towards the night market. Outside a shop was a young boy with his mum doing his English homework. Mum stopped us and asked if we spoke English and could we talk to her son. I looked at the English text book, a Thai English text book. It was quite difficult to help the kid because his "English" book was complete gibberish.
I also remember many years ago meeting a woman who told me that she was an English teacher in a local school. We chatted in "English" for 10 or 15 minutes and to this day I haven't a clue what she was taking about.

[mjj]

A decent TEFL is what's needed to teach English in Europe, so why does Thailand think it can demand more? The wages?

Isn't this just a way to get rid of native speakers? I expect Filipino and Malaysian English teachers to be the norm soon.

[wolf5370]

LETS BE HONEST GUYS

 

A big proportion of uk guys who teach with a tefl course,dont have a work permit, and have spoilt it for many people 

 

I'm sure they would not turn one down if it was offered - therein lies the problem, they are needed (obviously otherwise they would not find employment so easily!) yet cannot do it legally. So a blind eye was turned for a long time. Rather than sorting this out logically, by allowing for TEFL educated teacher's assistants and language school teachers, they deign to throw them all out. Thereby ensuring the worst possible outcome for the scenario. Logic has never been a strong (or even often evident) attribute to Thai policy and the Junta is continuing the trend. So much for learning from their mistakes in 2006, seems they are repeating them with the same xenophobic crap that stung them then too.

[Bernard Flint]

Many flippers speak better english than some cockneys, geordies and scottish, not even going to mention the irish and welsh.There has to be some good english teachers out there, but my experience has been they are skint, no assets, no car,and borrowing money to get drunk at weekends, or sniding free drinks

[kkup]

"millions Thais speak a perfect English and can teach to the children." Really...

 

My wife studied an English major and now works at the same University, both her and her friends speak good English, but far from perfect. The only Thai people I've met who speak perfect English studied abroad. They won't set foot in a classroom and there definitely isn't "millions" of them.