Yingluck seeks NCPO's permission to visit Europe

[tingtongfarang]

You've Changed General P, We don't know you anymore!!!!!!

Agreed, seems they duped much of the population into thinking change was coming in the form of accountability whether rich, or poor regardless of status then thainess stepped in and scuppered it.

[Eurojomtien]

I don't think she'll come back. Maybe Gen. Prayuth senses this and sees her leaving Thailand as the best thing for the country. I hope this is the case. The last thing Thailand needs now is to have her case wrapped up in the courts. Thailand needs to forget the Shinawatra family and move on, uniting the country and becoming one again.

As long as there is a single Shin in this country, this cancer will continue to gnaw away at Thailand.

Putting Yingluck away for a good few years would have been much better for the country as it sends out a message that not even the PM is above the law.

Tell that to the majority of the Thai voting population.

Or even the large minority that voted for her once before

Oh purrrrr-leaaaase... can you take off your pink glasses and look at the REAL world for a split second ?

An election is democratic NOT because voters put a piece of paper in an urn but because they do so without being :

1/ coerced in any way

2/ paid for it

3/ influenced as in brainwashed by the media or their social environment.

In Thailand, all 3 points are effective (concerning point one, how many westerners here actually realize the power of the village head in a profoundly Confucian society ?), but point number 3 per se clearly implies that there are NO democratic elections ANYWHERE in the WORLD any more, because communication/manipulation experts have reached such a high level of competence, and people have reached such a low level of independant and clear reasoning, that we are now officially living Huxley's nightmare. But most people love it, apparently, so where's the problem ??!! And what's the option for people who are aware of this political carnage ? retiring to some monastery in the Himalayas ?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Eurojomtien

[rametindallas]

Ehhh, did she visit her brother abroad last year? Or any year? Why now? Would it have something to do with a massive number of court cases, civil and criminal, she is facing. {snip} {snip}

Except that she isn't. I expect that this is why the NCPO is in charge and you aren't, because they know the difference between facing charges and not facing charges.

I don't know either one of your ulterior motives although I suspect both of you, deeply, you and the junta. But I do know Yingluck currently faces no charges.

To become untouchable he will have to do a "Suthep" and become a monk !

Or a Thaksin!

Yes. Except you should have pointed out that Suthep is certainly not untouchable and being a monk doesn't make him so. Amazing what people don't know about monks, Buddhism, the law and Thailand, all in one short sentence.

But what intrigues me is, why do you suppose Thaksin is untouchable? I don't get why the junta has not cancelled Thaksin's passport. I ask this over and over and the only answer I get anywhere is "fear". Really? The whole junta paralysed with stark visible fear over one man? Seems crazy. And yet, no action, passport still entirely valid....

.

Lovely, how you created a 'straw man' argument by changing my words. You changed 'court cases' to 'charges' and proceeded to argue there were no 'charges' against Ms Yingluck. Really, that is a dishonest debating technique and doesn't portray you in a good light. Now, do you want to rephrase your response to my post?

As far as me having ulterior motives, if you have been following any of my posts, you would know that I abhor the behavior of Dr. Thaksin and his continued/continuing war against Thailand because of the terrible loss of face he suffered in 2006. I have been quite outspoken and am never shy to express exactly how I feel so, you are being disingenuous to suggest I have ulterior motives. I'll be watching to see if you give an honest response to my post above.

[Baerboxer]

Tell that to the majority of the Thai voting population.

Or even the large minority that voted for her once before

Oh purrrrr-leaaaase... can you take off your pink glasses and look at the REAL world for a split second ?

An election is democratic NOT because voters put a piece of paper in an urn but because they do so without being :

1/ coerced in any way

2/ paid for it

3/ influenced as in brainwashed by the media or their social environment.

In Thailand, all 3 points are effective (concerning point one, how many westerners here actually realize the power of the village head in a totally Confucian society ?), but point number 3 per se clearly implies that there are NO democratic elections ANYWHERE in the WORLD any more, because communication/manipulation experts have reached such a high level of competence, and people have reached such a low level of independant and clear reasoning, that we are now officially living Huxley's nightmare. But most people love it, apparently, so where's the problem ??!! I just need to retire to some far off monastery in the Himalayas, that's all I can do I guess.

Brainwashed, coerced, bribed - all valid campaign techniques in many countries.

One strange observable phenomena is that those elected by such methods always convince themselves they are really loved, know what's best for everyone and are become above the rules if they possibly can.

Try and find a monastery where the abbot isn't elected or your paranoia might become reality.

[Baerboxer]

If, and that's a big "if" she comes back, hope she remembers duty free limits are now being enforced!

Expensive watches, pieces of jewelry, handbags etc that are new will be subject to tax and not exempt just because they're being worn or carried.

[Eurojomtien]

Tell that to the majority of the Thai voting population.

Or even the large minority that voted for her once before

Oh purrrrr-leaaaase... can you take off your pink glasses and look at the REAL world for a split second ?

An election is democratic NOT because voters put a piece of paper in an urn but because they do so without being :

1/ coerced in any way

2/ paid for it

3/ influenced as in brainwashed by the media or their social environment.

In Thailand, all 3 points are effective (concerning point one, how many westerners here actually realize the power of the village head in a totally Confucian society ?), but point number 3 per se clearly implies that there are NO democratic elections ANYWHERE in the WORLD any more, because communication/manipulation experts have reached such a high level of competence, and people have reached such a low level of independant and clear reasoning, that we are now officially living Huxley's nightmare. But most people love it, apparently, so where's the problem ??!! I just need to retire to some far off monastery in the Himalayas, that's all I can do I guess.

Brainwashed, coerced, bribed - all valid campaign techniques in many countries.

One strange observable phenomena is that those elected by such methods always convince themselves they are really loved, know what's best for everyone and are become above the rules if they possibly can.

Try and find a monastery where the abbot isn't elected or your paranoia might become reality.

Was the word 'paranoia' necessary ? It's unpleasant and besides it's not true, so what is your point there ? Anyway I do agree with you about the 'strange observable phenomenon' and I think it's a very good point.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Eurojomtien

[NeilSA1]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

This is a trick. Unclothed police will follow her to the hide out of Thaksin, so Thai unclothed police can arrest Thaksin, and bring him back to face the 2 years jail sentence.

Maybe your native language is not English, I fully understood your post. BUT unclothed ??? why would they have to be naked to do this.

I know you meant Plain clothed police.------not to ridicule, for sure---but it made me smile alt=thumbsup.gif>

Had to laugh as well, when I imagined naked cops tip toeing behind Yingluck, to the sound of the Pink Panther movie music.

[Greg Nixon]

Do not let her go to see her father. Hold her feet to the fire.

[SABloke]

Don't know if there's already a thread, but this proves that deals were certainly made behind the scenes, hence her sudden departure

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/NACC-decides-to-have-Yingluck-arraigned-on-rice-pl-30238765.html

[pumpuy]

Thaksins Birthday Party in Paris ?

Would be a nice surprise if a member of the Junta accompanies Yingluck and gives an International Arrest Warrant to Thaksin as a birthday present ?!!

Bye Bye.

[wealth]

Don't know if there's already a thread, but this proves that deals were certainly made behind the scenes, hence her sudden departure

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/NACC-decides-to-have-Yingluck-arraigned-on-rice-pl-30238765.html

I also wondering about the timing. Lets see if they stop her during departure.

Doesn't look good for the military now.

Of course Thaksin's handlers will applaud this move.

[wandasloan]

Well IMO the junta doesn't really want him to return. The violence was bad enough before they put a stop to it and there is a fairly good chance that Thaksin's return (overtly) would spark a lot worse.

Well, that simply states the obvious. You seem to be among all my friends and others who think the junta is flat-out scared to try to bring Thaksin to face the courts. I also can't think of another reason, but I was actually looking for people who do NOT agree with me, and now you.

Would be a nice surprise if a member of the Junta accompanies Yingluck and gives an International Arrest Warrant to Thaksin as a birthday present ?!!

Yes. Why do you think they haven't and won't?

.

Edited July 17, 2014 by wandasloan

[Maroon Watcher]

... haven't we been here before?

Liberte Egalite Fraternite. Off with her head

And as many (most) Thais I know may say....

"Can I have her [lucrative] job!!"

Edited July 17, 2014 by Maroon Watcher

[fab4]

Do not let her go to see her father. Hold her feet to the fire.

She might have a bit of trouble doing that unless she visit's Lert Shinawatra's shrine in San Kamphaeng.

Oh sorry, you were trying to imply that Thaksin is Yinglucks father. I thought that intelligent people would not be fooled by that obviously false slander and realise that Yingluck is one of ten children born to Lert and Yindee Shinawatra, but never mind.

If you have any problem remembering in future, here's a link to the family tree http://d2zr4os61m2h8m.cloudfront.net/newmandala/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/shin-family-eng.jpg

[wandasloan]

Lovely, how you created a 'straw man' argument by changing my words. You changed 'court cases' to 'charges' and proceeded to argue there were no 'charges' against Ms Yingluck. Really, that is a dishonest debating technique and doesn't portray you in a good light. Now, do you want to rephrase your response to my post?

As far as me having ulterior motives, if you have been following any of my posts, you would know that I abhor the behavior of Dr. Thaksin and his continued/continuing war against Thailand because of the terrible loss of face he suffered in 2006. I have been quite outspoken and am never shy to express exactly how I feel so, you are being disingenuous to suggest I have ulterior motives. I'll be watching to see if you give an honest response to my post above.

Good grief. I have no idea how you could have a court case without charges.

But okay. Fine. Yingluck faces no court cases. is that better?

We all have ulterior motives, dear. The question is what sort. And for the record, I disagree quite profoundly with your statement. I don't think that Thaksin's abhorrent behaviour began or even changed much in 2006. In fact, now that your post made me think about it, I don't think Thaksin has changed so much as you'd notice since he first dipped his toe into politics way, way back in the last century. When you plumb the very, very deep caverns of hell for something good to say about Thaksin, "consistent" is one I would give him credit for. He certainly lost face (heh) in 2006, but his behaviour didn't change any that I have noticed.

Speaking of notice: Does anyone else notice that the Thai Visa software does not know how to spell Yingluck or Thaksin? Or Prayuth or Abhisit, presumably to show it has no double standards.

.

[bristolgeoff]

open the gate and she will never return,you can speak to her from Dubai with the brother.she is hoping that she will be allowed

[Artisi]

Here is something to think about:

1. Maybe the junta have decided that the enquiries into YL may not lead anywhere substantial like a conviction in court, so lets proceed anyway with all enquiries and summons her to appear before the appropriate adjudicators or court of law.

2. In the mean time allow her to leave and let her do a runner o/seas never to return.

3. Then she will be and can be rightly called a fugitive from justice with a number of court cases pending as well as failing to abide by her promise to return.

4. Seems like a solution to an awkward situation for the junta - they get her charged with a series of offences, she is out of their hair and she can't claim bias by the courts as she has never faced them.

A few random thoughts.

[bristolgeoff]

bye bye Thailand hello world I,am free with loads of money to spend and travel

[rametindallas]

Lovely, how you created a 'straw man' argument by changing my words. You changed 'court cases' to 'charges' and proceeded to argue there were no 'charges' against Ms Yingluck. Really, that is a dishonest debating technique and doesn't portray you in a good light. Now, do you want to rephrase your response to my post?

As far as me having ulterior motives, if you have been following any of my posts, you would know that I abhor the behavior of Dr. Thaksin and his continued/continuing war against Thailand because of the terrible loss of face he suffered in 2006. I have been quite outspoken and am never shy to express exactly how I feel so, you are being disingenuous to suggest I have ulterior motives. I'll be watching to see if you give an honest response to my post above.

Good grief. I have no idea how you could have a court case without charges.

But okay. Fine. Yingluck faces no court cases. is that better?

We all have ulterior motives, dear. The question is what sort. And for the record, I disagree quite profoundly with your statement. I don't think that Thaksin's abhorrent behaviour began or even changed much in 2006. In fact, now that your post made me think about it, I don't think Thaksin has changed so much as you'd notice since he first dipped his toe into politics way, way back in the last century. When you plumb the very, very deep caverns of hell for something good to say about Thaksin, "consistent" is one I would give him credit for. He certainly lost face (heh) in 2006, but his behaviour didn't change any that I have noticed.

Speaking of notice: Does anyone else notice that the Thai Visa software does not know how to spell Yingluck or Thaksin? Or Prayuth or Abhisit, presumably to show it has no double standards.

.

But okay. Fine. Yingluck faces no court cases. is that better?

No, because it is untrue. The NACC is currently expected to bring charges and Ms. Yingluck's lawyers are feverishly trying to delay them. There are seven civil suits against Ms Yingluck, not counting the one dismissed yesterday, regarding the former PM's handling of the 2011 floods. Those are court cases that don't involve charges. 'Court cases' and 'charges' are not synonymous. So, you see, Ms Yingluck IS facing court cases.

I don't think Thaksin has changed so much as you'd notice since he first dipped his toe into politics

Maybe you should think. Going from being openly in charge, as PM, and then to controlling his puppet governments, via Skype, from afar would be considered a major change of behavior to any thinking person. From being on top of the world to being a scorned, fugitive felon has changed him. It would change anyone. I have close friends who are close to Dr. Thaksin and they don't deny he changed when he became PM. He became more greedy and narcissistic. 'Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.'

When you plumb the very, very deep caverns of hell for something good to say about Thaksin, "consistent" is one I would give him credit for

Yes, the very deep caverns of Hell would be a good place to look for something good to say about Dr. Thaksin. The only consistent thing about Dr. Thaksin is his ruthlessness and complete lack of morals. Imagine using/abusing your baby sister to further your evil goals.

Speaking of notice: Does anyone else notice that the Thai Visa software does not know how to spell Yingluck or Thaksin? Or Prayuth or Abhisit, presumably to show it has no double standards.

Wanting to change the subject?

[Thakkar]

This is a trick. Unclothed police will follow her to the hide out of Thaksin, so Thai unclothed police can arrest Thaksin, and bring him back to face the 2 years jail sentence.

The police would only blend in if she planned to spend her entire time away at a nudist colony.

T

[tingtongteesood]

I want to see her in the dock to face the music for all the crap she has put the country through, especially to see some kind of justice for the family's of those murdered by her supporters, I hope if she is allowed to go they make damn sure she is brought back. I think letting her leave would be a big mistake personally...Maybe a secret deal has been made to let her go in return for peace...? Who knows ?!

[Living in a cartoon]

You guys need to lighten up a bit. She's probably a very nice woman. Just got in above her head.

[wandasloan]

But okay. Fine. Yingluck faces no court cases. is that better?

No, because it is untrue. The NACC is currently expected to bring charges

Did you not notice? "Is expected" is not today? All you're doing, in 500 words or less, is agreeing with me for the second straight time. And no, sir, in Thailand you do not face court cases without charges. In particular, Yingluck will never appear in a Thai court unless charged, just as she has not appeared so far *except* when charged.

To reiterate: The junta specified correctly there are no current charges against Yingluck. As of the moment she was granted permission to leave for Europe, she CURRENTLY faces no court cases or even a lawsuit. No court has called her. No prosecutor or litigant has drawn up or made charges. That could change, but so could the weather. I'm not a fortune teller. I am tinglingly aware of what Yingluck MIGHT face, but as of today, she doesn't. So in a strictly legal sense, the junta had no reason to deny her exit. The court, in a strictly legal sense had no say at all since the court has no cases or charges to consider AS OF TODAY. So she is free to leave.

I am also excruciatingly aware that not all things are done by strict law these days, such as taking away passports of law-abiding citizens who have not been charged with anything or ordered to court for anything, and the junta COULD HAVE done that to Yingluck, too, but the junta specifically and carefully stated today that these, too, do not apply to Yingluck, and she is free to leave.

I think that covers all the bases for this discussion.

That's what I said first and you agreed and what I said second and you agreed again and now again for a third time.

No charges or court cases (pick one or both) exist against Yingluck. Finished.

.

[rametindallas]

But okay. Fine. Yingluck faces no court cases. is that better?

No, because it is untrue. The NACC is currently expected to bring charges

Did you not notice? "Is expected" is not today? All you're doing, in 500 words or less, is agreeing with me for the second straight time. And no, sir, in Thailand you do not face court cases without charges. In particular, Yingluck will never appear in a Thai court unless charged, just as she has not appeared so far *except* when charged.

To reiterate: The junta specified correctly there are no current charges against Yingluck. As of the moment she was granted permission to leave for Europe, she CURRENTLY faces no court cases or even a lawsuit. No court has called her. No prosecutor or litigant has drawn up or made charges. That could change, but so could the weather. I'm not a fortune teller. I am tinglingly aware of what Yingluck MIGHT face, but as of today, she doesn't. So in a strictly legal sense, the junta had no reason to deny her exit. The court, in a strictly legal sense had no say at all since the court has no cases or charges to consider AS OF TODAY. So she is free to leave.

I am also excruciatingly aware that not all things are done by strict law these days, such as taking away passports of law-abiding citizens who have not been charged with anything or ordered to court for anything, and the junta COULD HAVE done that to Yingluck, too, but the junta specifically and carefully stated today that these, too, do not apply to Yingluck, and she is free to leave.

I think that covers all the bases for this discussion.

That's what I said first and you agreed and what I said second and you agreed again and now again for a third time.

No charges or court cases (pick one or both) exist against Yingluck. Finished.

.

Ah, snipped my quote before the 'proof' part. How clever. As I wrote, before I was so rudely snipped, there are also civil suits that will be decided in the courts, so there are court cases awaiting her for her massive failures during the 2011 floods. I notice that you 'conveniently' neglected to respond to that part of my post.

The National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) has unanimously agreed to press corruption charges against ex-Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra in the rice pledging scheme

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNPOL5707170010012

Will that satisfy your definition of court cases? These are formal charges any way you look at it.

And no, sir, in Thailand you do not face court cases without charges.

That is patently false for, in civil suits, there are no charges filed; only complaints to be adjudicated in the courts. Charges are filed by a District Attorney or the Attorney General and are, usually but not always, criminal charges. A friend of mine is suing someone in the courts and he has been counter-sued. Neither he, nor the person he is suing, have been 'charged' with anything, and yet, they both face court cases. Again, do I need to explain that 'court cases' are not the same as 'charges'? I am very careful of my word choices. Apparently, you are not.

That's what I said first and you agreed and what I said second and you agreed again and now again for a third time.

Wow! And here I am, doing my level best to disagree with you. Maybe you could provide some side-by-side examples of where I have agreed with you. Too bad you cut most of our conversation so others couldn't see your duplicity.

Edited July 17, 2014 by rametindallas

[BawBae]

She was just 'convicted' of graft in the rice scheme. Let's see if 'saving face in exile' trumps the law and the appeals procedure.

[Baerboxer]

You guys need to lighten up a bit. She's probably a very nice woman. Just got in above her head.

You reckon.

Or there again....................

[binjalin]

bullying Thailand's first female PM is extremely distasteful

she was not a 'great' but I think did her best and deserved some credit for her demeanor against terrible odds from Phra Suthep and his cronies

give her a break

[rubl]

bullying Thailand's first female PM is extremely distasteful

she was not a 'great' but I think did her best and deserved some credit for her demeanor against terrible odds from Phra Suthep and his cronies

give her a break

Bullying? With the mere suggestion that it might be because of the PM being female?

Was the PM attacked by violent anti-government protesters like a previous PM?

I think you are running out of even half decent excuses to justify Ms. Yingluck c.s having caused the country to lose 700++ billion Baht in hardly more than two years time. Now it seems we start to know why the blanket amnesty bill included the first two years of the Yingluck administration

[Living in a cartoon]

She was just 'convicted' of graft in the rice scheme. Let's see if 'saving face in exile' trumps the law and the appeals procedure.

If I recall, she hasn't been convicted of anything, and is only accused of incompetence. Fair enough, she probably was not up to the task.

NCPO says she can go, and come back. I agree.

Why do you dislike her so much? I doubt she will will abandon Thailand.

Unlike her convicted sibling.

[harrry]

Does she have a diplomatic passport or does she have to apply for a visa like real people?