Popular Post David48 Posted July 17, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2014 Here’s a thought … we often bemoan that while Thailand does have Laws … what they sadly miss is the ‘Rule of Law’ For us Westerners who don’t have a Visa organised, the 30 days Visa exempt we receive when we enter Thailand is, I think, most sensible people would agree, is designed for genuine tourists … not for people living here. Living in Thailand on back to back 30 days Visa exempts is probably not a smart strategy … though has worked for some time, years even. So, we ask for ‘Rule of Law’, but when it effects us directly, to the detriment … we cry foul … We aren’t sure if that isolated report from 1 member who signed up to Thai Visa early this morning then posted in the Visa Forum that he was refused entry (he claimed to have no Visa) is genuine, or not. The Thai Administration is making sweeping changes, one example is the clean-up of the illegal business who operated on the Beachfront at Phuket. Do you think the Thai Administration should go further with their Rule of Law. Possible, the better question is ask is, do you support what they are doing? Then, in what other areas should they go further? For me … I would be a little nervous for those who bought Property through a Company and think that this arrangement would never be scrutinised a little closer. . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kwasaki Posted July 17, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2014 Well I have little to say on the subject because I have always been a goodie goodie two shoes and made sure if I was staying for more than 30 days I got the visit visa's that were needed before I ended up living here retired. As for overstayers I have no time for them and Thailand should be as tough as they like on them, so the answers yes I guess. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post submaniac Posted July 17, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2014 I saw that "other" thread, and I also noticed that the poster had just signed up today and had a whopping 6 posts total. Everyone seemed to accept the allegations as true without there being any kind of substantiation. I didn't want to mention it because the situation in no way effects me and I thought it would be d### move because if I was one of those guys who bought a house or a car or couldn't see wife/gf/child again w/out jumping through hoops I'd probably be worried even if it is just a sniff of a hint of an allegation. I always thought it was funny how people complain about the lack of rule of law in Thailand when that's actually one of the reasons that someone is drawn there. Like complaining that you got pulled over to pay a bribe to the BIB of a couple hundred Baht, when you know in Europe or USA that the fine would be a couple hundred euros or dollars. Or complain about the lack of work ethic in Thailand yet the entire "mai bpen rai' attitude is what they like. Anyways, I think that yes, things are starting to clear up now, and I think it is for the good. Looks like the powers that be are legitimately trying to stomp out corruption and I think it was a long time coming. But I don't think that it is anything to fear. TIT. The initial clean up process will be a little rought. But I do think that once a little time has passed the pendulum will swing back towards the regular way of doing it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GuestHouse Posted July 17, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2014 Two lovely children you are raising in Thailand and you ask - Do we really want a rule of law. The lack of compliance to the law might suit people who have no commitment to the country, people who wish only to behave in a way they would not be allowed to behave in their own country. But once you have a family in Thailand I can see no logical argument for not wanting to see the rule of law enforced. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim207 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I am happy for Thai people that corruption is being attacked. I have strong doubts that it will not come right back when the military hands rule back to civilians. However,I would like to see a consistent visa policy with published rules so we all know where we stand and what is acceptable and what isn't. Thousands of people at borders with no idea if they can enter or not does no good for anyone, including Thailand. Edited July 17, 2014 by Tim207 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96tehtarp Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) "Do you think the Thai Administration should go further with their Rule of Law?" I've always enjoyed the freedom I've had in Thailand to break many of the rules imposed on me in my home country. Thailand has always had a flexible, middle way, approach to everything. It's part of Thainess, or at least it has been. "Possible, the better question is ask is, do you support what they are doing?" From what I hear most Thai people discussing among themselves it sounds like they support it. I'll stay ambivalent and go with the flow, unless it goes too far. I do not want to live in Singapore. "Then, in what other areas should they go further?" Yes they must wipe out corruption. Corruption is the new communism. It must be defeated at all costs. Even when one considers that the military has been in control of Thailand for over 65% of the time since 1932 and the culture of corruption has flourished, the military with its strict press censorship regime is the best body to fight corruption…. (...again me being overwhelmed with a feeling of happiness.) ...most people in Thailand are willing to give them another go at it. Will this time be any different? Edited July 17, 2014 by 96tehtarp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 We have a military government, used to carrying out orders to the letter, and I'm sure that many people in the army have bristled for years at the disregard for the law that is so convenient for corrupt people. Once they get their teeth stuck into something, they don't let go, what do you expect? Until the laws are (possibly) changed, the laws and regulations concerning, for instance, visas, overstay and visa runs will be applied strictly. Next thing: ensuring that immigration officers get their act together, meet up from time to time and make sure that the application of these rules, are universally and uniformly carried out. I believe that some immigration officers have been replaced already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinth Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 To me, the relaxed approach to enforcement of laws was one of the things that attracted me to Thailand. It was so different to the rigid enforcement of regulations that I had followed for 23 years in the armed forces and the clinical enforcement of PC correctness in the UK. For any long term person here, think back to when you first came and be honest with yourselves........................ For clarity, I don't have a record and am not hiding from anyone either................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Rule of Law is nice but those in charge also need to realize that there are a large group of foreigners who are beneficial to the country who do not currently fit into any of the visa categories and with the exception of purchasing an "Elite Card for 500k baht" will not be able to live in the country. I don't know how many will bite the bullet and purchase one of these stupid cards but I bet many will spend their time and money elsewhere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundrenched Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Yes, by all means. It's the only way to make progress. But it should be one law for everybody, not selective law enforcement depending on your connections. As to the visa runners, if they have a useful economic role in this country, pressures will arise to normalize their situation. If not, goodbye. Just like in any other civilized country. Regarding "company-owned" houses, I always regarded that as a highly risky move that might leave you exposed sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Thai authorities under previous governments have been very very lax in implementing and enforcing their laws and fighting corruption, scams, drunk driving etc etc. Loads of people here on ThaiVisa cried "foul, foul, foul" on every single occasion and asked for changes on numerous things... Now these changes come... and "unfortunately" the new Masters do not only fight what is bothering the ThaiVisa posters... but also enforcing a number of other laws like immigration and visa... and now everybody cries "foul" and "unfair" because they are affected... Kind of double standards here... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Rule of Law is nice but those in charge also need to realize that there are a large group of foreigners who are beneficial to the country who do not currently fit into any of the visa categories and with the exception of purchasing an "Elite Card for 500k baht" will not be able to live in the country. I don't know how many will bite the bullet and purchase one of these stupid cards but I bet many will spend their time and money elsewhere. Would you expect the same thing to happen in your contry of origin? would you accept that (i.e.) Nigerian drug and blood diamond dealers come to your country of origin and stay there without proper papers and visa, just because they are "beneficial" by spending their money there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 They should only be allowed to stay in Thailand when they reach retirement age (obviously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchClark Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 When there are "Visa Run" services advertised openly and no attempts were ever made at shutting them down. When back-to-back visa rums have been allowed at the borders for the three years I have been here. When there are 100 TV threads giving advice on how to do O/I's. When nary a mention was ever warned by customs or immigration in all the times thousands have gotten their passport stamped on obvious O/I's then I think its very bold for anyone on TV to play all high & mighty and accuse anyone of working outside the law or having something to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Well apparently the laws will not be limited to visa land runs but that people are not supposed to be living in Thailand on a tourist visa. As many Thai Visa users have proudly proclaimed, "If you own a condo you are obviously not a tourist and you need to get the correct visa"... they just haven't clarified what kind of visa that is exactly for those who don't work in Thailand and are not of retirement age. Apparently it is the Thai Elite Card at a cost of 500k baht... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I don't understand this 'if you own a condo you are not a tourist' bit. Plenty of Tourists own properties in Thailand and, for example, spend the winter months in Thailand living in their condo. Surely the issue is the basis of the visit to Thailand. Example: Whenever the discussion comes up about are TV members living in Thailand/How long of TV members been living in Thailand, many will respond that they work outside of Thailand but live in Thailand. If that is what they are doing, then what visa are they using? If they are using tourist visas while establishing their life, perhaps family life in Thailand then they are acting outside the visa laws. Anyone who has spent anything more than a few weeks in Thailand surely understands something about the law in Thailand: It might be against the law to do something in Thailand but Mai Bpen Rai - it will never be a problem until it is a problem. The best advice is always - stay within the law as it is written, not the law as it is applied/not applied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CharlieH Posted July 17, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2014 Some posts removed. 11) Do not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Anyone who has spent anything more than a few weeks in Thailand surely understands something about the law in Thailand: It might be against the law to do something in Thailand but Mai Bpen Rai - it will never be a problem until it is a problem. The best advice is always - stay within the law as it is written, not the law as it is applied/not applied. My bolding and I hope with GH it's OK? Nice quote ... just want it viewed as a stand alone comment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Surely a rule of law in the long term makes things easier and more secure, or do I totally have a different way of looking at the world? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang000999 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 My wife is Thai so it does not effect me personally but i have several friends who do not qualify for any visa category besides tourist. these are 20-30 somethings who make/have made very good money, are well educated and intelligent. they don't have or want a Thai wife. there was an article on thai visa not too long ago by some government official saying they wanted Thailand to become the new hub of internet start ups and it is true that Thailand had all the requirements to be good for that sort of thing... it is unique country because it is affordable, fun, with easy visa regulations. these 20-40 year old nomadic types are very strongly hated on Thai visa for what reason i do not know, jealousy i guess... apparently on thai visa people take triumph in anything they can, such as qualifying for a retirement visa. but the response that these "hot shots" should pay 500k baht for an elite card is more like a fantasy than anything else. i mean unless you are rolling in dosh nobody is paying 500k for an elite card.The Thai government could easily go back to not enforcing the rules a year from now and you will have been the only idiot around who paid 500k for a visa. and a lot of shit can happen in 5 years. if they were prorating it annually it'd be more realistic as opposed to 500k upfront for 5 years. the elite card was never created for this explicit purpose more than likely it was designed as a vehicle for political graft, not as a "visa category". my friends will probably just leave and if we are being honest about it, will probably be better off for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96tehtarp Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Surely a rule of law in the long term makes things easier and more secure, or do I totally have a different way of looking at the world? No you don't. Rules made by laws make things easier and more secure for everyone. I still don't want to live in Singapore. At some point freedom has to enter into the equation. The argument that freedom is the right to break the law has been going on for quite a while now in the U.S. supreme court. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Hill Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 these 20-40 year old nomadic types are very strongly hated on Thai visa for what reason i do not know, jealousy i guess... apparently on thai visa people take triumph in anything they can, such as qualifying for a retirement visa. Jealousy is ABSOLUTELY at the root of the hostility towards those younger expats who are able to support themselves without working or through online work for foreign companies. It's as if there's resentment that a lot of younger people can enjoy a similar lifestyle to the retired without somehow having "paid their dues". As if the young are taking food off their table It positively infuriates the haters that it's nigh on impossible for these people to be "brought to justice" so they spit their bile while pretending to be in favour of the rule of law . . . . I wonder if they'll be so upstanding when it becomes impossible to incentivize a BiB to ignore their latest DUI Personally, I wouldn't hand over $15,000 - UPFRONT - when the goalposts will almost certainly be moved by the next bunch of chimps to form a government in this country and anyone doing so deserves to be separated from his or her money. Offer the card for $3,000 annually and there'd be a lot more takers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stgrhe Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 The question was: 'Do you think the Thai Administration should go further with their Rule of Law?" Yes I hope so. This is a great opportunity to start clearing up dirty deeds here in Thailand, and it has infact started with addressing the taxi maffia in Phuket and at Suvarnabhumi, cleansing the beaches in Phuket and recovering pawements in Bangkok; this in addition to addressing the problems missuse of the tourist visas and visa exempt entries. It is a small start, but still a start. The biggest problem is of course corruptions in government administrations, but hopefully something can be done there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yermanee Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'm one of those that follow the rules especially since here in Thailand it's easy enough compared to my home country. I have no problem with those that don't. I find it however ridiculous that it's them that cry the loudest when they're found out. And regarding the jealousy argument, it's the retirees that suffer the brunt of abuse here on Thaivisa. Yermanee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) My wife is Thai so it does not effect me personally but i have several friends who do not qualify for any visa category besides tourist. these are 20-30 somethings who make/have made very good money, are well educated and intelligent. they don't have or want a Thai wife. there was an article on thai visa not too long ago by some government official saying they wanted Thailand to become the new hub of internet start ups and it is true that Thailand had all the requirements to be good for that sort of thing... it is unique country because it is affordable, fun, with easy visa regulations. these 20-40 year old nomadic types are very strongly hated on Thai visa for what reason i do not know, jealousy i guess... apparently on thai visa people take triumph in anything they can, such as qualifying for a retirement visa. but the response that these "hot shots" should pay 500k baht for an elite card is more like a fantasy than anything else. i mean unless you are rolling in dosh nobody is paying 500k for an elite card.The Thai government could easily go back to not enforcing the rules a year from now and you will have been the only idiot around who paid 500k for a visa. and a lot of shit can happen in 5 years. if they were prorating it annually it'd be more realistic as opposed to 500k upfront for 5 years. the elite card was never created for this explicit purpose more than likely it was designed as a vehicle for political graft, not as a "visa category". my friends will probably just leave and if we are being honest about it, will probably be better off for it. I don't get what you at and I couldn't care a hoot what other people do to stay here in Thailand there's a correct way and there's dodgy ways I guess, but marriage extension are 400,000 or show income of 480,000, and retirement extension are 800,000 or what ever it is, so what's all the rave on worry about 500,000.?? Edited July 17, 2014 by Kwasaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherOneAmerican Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Not bothered about 'rule of law'. But I would like the same right to kill policemen, shoot my wife, steal and embezzle $$$$s, etc. and get away with it, that the really rich Thais appear to have. PS I deliberately left 'have sex with under-age school girls' off my list. Edited July 17, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) The best advice is always - stay within the law as it is written, not the law as it is applied/not applied. Of course laws are always a matter of interpretation, but the extent of utter disregard for the law one sees in Thailand tears the social fabric of common coexistence. Edited July 17, 2014 by Morakot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I would like the same right to kill policemen, shoot my wife, steal and embezzle $$$$s, etc. and get away with it, that the really rich Thais appear to have. You very likely will not enjoy the fruits of such "freedoms", as you may be killed, robbed and embezzled by the next man who absurdly insists on such "privileges". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccarty Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Rule of law has always existed here in my 27 years of both visiting and living here. The grey areas are vast, and turning a blind eye happens even in Singapore and Switzerland, just not as often. If as the OP is referring to over-stayers or visa abusers, or squatters, or misuse of business for ownership of land? Well, it would be nice to make those things legal if there is a market for them and treat it as such. The government can make legitimate income from what is now illegitimate. But logic would need to prevail and I don't see that in this world where we all breath the same air, drink the same water and eat the same food. That would just make too much sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Rule of Law - Do we really want it? I think the question should be: Do we want sensible laws that can be applied in a meaningful way within the frame of due processes? Having having absurd laws is even worse than not enforcing them. Edited July 17, 2014 by Morakot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now