Graft buster rules Yingluck guilty

[Old Man River]

If she leaves the country, very much doubt she will return.

agree...but will they fall for the same trick twice and actually let her leave now?

"I promise I'll come back" - Thaksin when he went to the Olympics.

Make her leave her son as a guarantee.

Hold her son hostage? Seriously?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[96tehtarp]

From the headline in the OP

"Graft buster rules Yingluck guilty"

She will get a fair trail because everyone including her lawyers know these charges are not politically motivated.

How could they possibly be politically motivated when politics has been outlawed by the junta?

what a stupid and childish remark!

I' agree with you completely, and am glad to see you can read between the lines.

Sensationalist headlines are an everyday occurrence on websites, otherwise viewer numbers may drop, the owners surmise.

The fact is Yingluck has every opportunity to answer the accusations.

Will she come back to prove that, as head of the committee on the rice policy she wasn't negligent in its massive losses?

Sensationalist headlines by media tightly controlled by the state are often used to spin public opinion.

Will she come back?

There has already been some speculation that she is being shown the doorway out. This would be consistent with the Thai way of doing things, compromise, middle-way, and minimal confrontation.

With the junta's agenda of minimizing unhappiness, conflict, and divisiveness I can see the rational for opening the door for her to leave.

Naturally, if she fails to appear in court she will might be convicted in a fair and non-politicized trial and her guilt will speak for itself. If this happens it will be hopefully without more demonstrations and bloodshed in the streets.

Edited July 17, 2014 by 96tehtarp

[peterdarby]

While apparently guilty as charged (yet to be proven in court), I can't help feeling that Yingluck had no say in the matter - a pawn in the game played by Thaksin and his powerful clique. Makes no difference though, she was officially in charge and will be held responsible.he would be foolish to return and face the music.

[worgeordie]

The number of bags and cases she leaves with will give you

a good idea if she intends to return or not,more than 20 shes

gone.

regards worgeordie

[espinoza]

How is it possible she can get a fair trial in Thailand ? The land of corruption. The land of corrupt justice ? The land where unfairness is the rule ? The land of people still waiting in their caves ? The land of people that do not want to familiarise with the rest of the world ? The land with several millions monks, hiding from criminal acts in their past. Millions of monks living on social security, from poor people. Millions of monks that really could work for the prosperity of Thailand and it`s citizens. I just ask ????

This determination of guilt without trial is definitely not politically motivated.

The trial comes after the decision by the NACC to indict her.

That is the next stage.

If she is innocent of negligence, she should return after her shopping trip to clear her name.

She has the money to hire the best lawyers.

From the headline in the OP

"Graft buster rules Yingluck guilty"

She will get a fair trail because everyone including her lawyers know these charges are not politically motivated.

How could they possibly be politically motivated when politics has been outlawed by the junta?

[3NUMBAS]

all the thaksins will be hounded out of the country on trumped up charges

[Phatcharanan]

all the thaksins will be hounded out of the country on trumped up charges

Go back to sleep.

[96tehtarp]

How is it possible she can get a fair trial in Thailand ? The land of corruption. The land of corrupt <censored>?

It is illegal in Thailand to criticize the junta or the justice system. Penalties include imprisonment. In light of this she will, of course, be given a fair trail. There are absolutely no other possibilities.

[Baerboxer]

This determination of guilt without trial is definitely not politically motivated.

The trial comes after the decision by the NACC to indict her.

That is the next stage.

If she is innocent of negligence, she should return after her shopping trip to clear her name.

She has the money to hire the best lawyers.

From the headline in the OP

"Graft buster rules Yingluck guilty"

She will get a fair trail because everyone including her lawyers know these charges are not politically motivated.

How could they possibly be politically motivated when politics has been outlawed by the junta?

Why or why must the Shin faithful insist that any comment or action against them must be politically motivated?

Really, you think she's innocent, that not bothering to turn up for one single meeting she was supposed to chair, that all the comments about there being no missing rice or corruption, all the false promises to pay farmers was all acceptable?

But of course, you've reviewed all the evidence, witness statements in coming to your learned opinion.

The NACC believe there is enough evidence to indict her. She should come back and robustly defend herself. She has the money to hire the best lawyers, although explaining how not bothering to turn up and doing anything is not negligence is a tad difficult - and certainly not political motivated.

[Baerboxer]

I think the strategy of the NCPO is actually quite simple:

They allow her to leave the country for a "temporary trip", from which pretty everyone with a brain knows that she most probably won't return. Meanwhile, NACC rules that she is guilty. Case moves on to the court. If YL does indeed return, she'll have to go on trial. If she does not return, it shows (also to the world community) that she is guilty. Only a guilty person would flee the country.

But when she leaves on the 21st, please kindly make sure to subject her 20+ suitcases to a thorough search. She has drained enough from this country - and there is plenty left in assorted bank accounts already established overseas for her and her big brother to buy up Montenegro two times over. Yingluck may leave. Her son, too. Her jewelry may not. If 19 suitcases are found to only contain Mama noodles to sustain her during her 20-day vacation, let her leave in peace.

Whether she is really guilty or not, her story will be exactly the same as Thaksin.

She ran because she couldn't get a fair trial. This story will run and run.

Quite a neat conclusion though. The shins are sent on their way, and the reform/cleansing can continue.

I'm sure you're right. She won't simply fade away. The story will run - fled persecution and show trial etc etc. Lapped up by the BBC, AFP and others.

Thaksin will spin this to promote his conviction as "unfair" hence the reason he ran and block out reference to the 15 other outstanding charges.

[mrtoad]

Maybe an agreed deal for her to leave.

[96tehtarp]

Why or why must the Shin faithful insist that any comment or action against them must be politically motivated?

Really, you think she's innocent, that not bothering to turn up for one single meeting she was supposed to chair, that all the comments about there being no missing rice or corruption, all the false promises to pay farmers was all acceptable?

But of course, you've reviewed all the evidence, witness statements in coming to your learned opinion.

The NACC believe there is enough evidence to indict her. She should come back and robustly defend herself. She has the money to hire the best lawyers, although explaining how not bothering to turn up and doing anything is not negligence is a tad difficult - and certainly not political motivated.

I have faith in no one and I have no reason to believe she is innocent.

There have never been any credible reports that rice has not gone missing.

Her government was blocked from paying the farmers by the EC.

I am waiting to review the evidence that will be presented at trial just as you are.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that these charges and the trial are and will not be politically motivated. It would be a crime to say otherwise.

I think you will agree with me that nothing in the past 15+ years in Thailand has been more political than the rice scheme itself.

I agree that Yingluck does have access to enough funds to hire the best lawyers in the world to defend herself. Will that be enough money, considering who she is up against?

[15Peter20]

In their eagerness to banish the Shin clan from Thai politics, the boys with big guns - at the behest of their masters - have thrown the baby (democracy) out with the bathwater (the Shins). A brave new world is enticing to many people. And the junta is well aware of that.

Edited July 17, 2014 by 15Peter20

[northernjohn]

And that could be the quickest the Junta have approved and then denied yinglucks request to travel overseas.

If it is still granted then maybe the Junta are sending a subtle message that they want her permanently out of the country.

Now why would they want that after all we are only talking about

He said the damages from the wrongdoings in the cases were over 500 billion baht.

No big deal to a PTP member or booster.

[englishoak]

It dosnt really matter if shes really guilty or not, making this public statement has already signed sealed and delivered the verdict at any trial.

Sure its a deal but, giving a way out and pass to travel as was done with her brother just shows that if guilty crime does indeed pay here still and clean up is not the same as a clean out..

No illusions there will be any fair trail by making this statement. None at all, talk about using propaganda

Only the guilty run or the persecuted, take your pick.

They will no doubt make a big noise later about fugitive and guilt but do remember who gave her the pass in the first place just as happened to big Brother.

If they were going to really change things there would be no exit door offered. Its a consolidation and change of power that is all it is.

Its a classic take it or leave it deal without any intention of bringing the guilty to justice. Real classic Thai power change deal.

The smart thing would be to run most would say run given the opportunity, but if truly innocent with enough principles and love for her country then return and fight no matter the outcome, if that happens ( and I hope it does ) then maybe the Country will be able to lay ghosts to rest and move on.

If she does run the ghost will always be there and the issue remains. Which is of course what the intention is, they need the boogy man/woman out there free not in prison.

PS I just won another beer for this step, another if she takes the way out.

Edited July 17, 2014 by englishoak

[rametindallas]

They should hold her for ransom and allow Dr. Thaksin to take her place at the dock since she was doing his bidding all along. Since all his followers think he is such a nice guy and all, don't you think Dr. Thaksin would help his sister out of the jamb he put her in by returning?

[northernjohn]

This determination of guilt without trial is definitely not politically motivated.

The trial comes after the decision by the NACC to indict her.

That is the next stage.

If she is innocent of negligence, she should return after her shopping trip to clear her name.

She has the money to hire the best lawyers.

From the headline in the OP

"Graft buster rules Yingluck guilty"

She will get a fair trail because everyone including her lawyers know these charges are not politically motivated.

How could they possibly be politically motivated when politics has been outlawed by the junta?

96tehtarp, this is simply the sensationalist headline on a website. Most newspapers and websites involved with news, love headline grabbing titles.

They are simply saying the first stage of investigation has decided there is weight to the accusation.

Now it's up to the judges to prove the case or not.

Sensationalist headlines are quite often politically motivated. It's called spin.

The enemy are always guilty!

If she is guilty she can live in Dubai. Why bother with a trial for any criminal just send them out of the country and if they don't come back they are guilty. If they do come back they are innocent. Done deal sure fire can't fail test.. Think of the money they could save with the super scaled down judicial system.

[rametindallas]

If she leaves the country, very much doubt she will return.

agree...but will they fall for the same trick twice and actually let her leave now?

"I promise I'll come back" - Thaksin when he went to the Olympics.

Make her leave her son as a guarantee.

Hold her son hostage? Seriously?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

First off changing the language used from 'guarantee' to 'hostage' is hyperbole. In any case, I don't believe 'hostage' means keeping the child in a dungeon. He could be left with the same people he was left with when his mother made other trips abroad, in her capacity as PM. It wouldn't be the first time they are separated as he was going to school in England before. So, yes. Seriously. If she is sincere in her appeal to travel and promise to return, what's the problem? She will only be away for twenty days, right?

[rametindallas]

While apparently guilty as charged (yet to be proven in court), I can't help feeling that Yingluck had no say in the matter - a pawn in the game played by Thaksin and his powerful clique. Makes no difference though, she was officially in charge and will be held responsible.he would be foolish to return and face the music.

A 'knowing' and 'willing' pawn who aided and abetted one of the largest ripoffs of the public treasury in the history of Thailand. It is not too late to withdraw her permission to travel since the original permission was based on different presumptions. I can see how bail will be granted but her brother has demonstrated the family propensity to abscond.

[rametindallas]

all the thaksins will be hounded out of the country on trumped up charges

There's only one Thaksin but if you mean Shinawatras, then, Whatever it takes if fine by me.

[rubl]

If she leaves the country, very much doubt she will return.

agree...but will they fall for the same trick twice and actually let her leave now?

"I promise I'll come back" - Thaksin when he went to the Olympics.

Make her leave her son as a guarantee.

That would be cruel and also turn Ms. Yingluck in a martyr as a mother harassed by a military dictatorship. Hardly the way to impress people.

[rametindallas]

I think the strategy of the NCPO is actually quite simple:

They allow her to leave the country for a "temporary trip", from which pretty everyone with a brain knows that she most probably won't return. Meanwhile, NACC rules that she is guilty. Case moves on to the court. If YL does indeed return, she'll have to go on trial. If she does not return, it shows (also to the world community) that she is guilty. Only a guilty person would flee the country.

But when she leaves on the 21st, please kindly make sure to subject her 20+ suitcases to a thorough search. She has drained enough from this country - and there is plenty left in assorted bank accounts already established overseas for her and her big brother to buy up Montenegro two times over. Yingluck may leave. Her son, too. Her jewelry may not. If 19 suitcases are found to only contain Mama noodles to sustain her during her 20-day vacation, let her leave in peace.

Whether she is really guilty or not, her story will be exactly the same as Thaksin.

She ran because she couldn't get a fair trial. This story will run and run.

Quite a neat conclusion though. The shins are sent on their way, and the reform/cleansing can continue.

I'm sure you're right. She won't simply fade away. The story will run - fled persecution and show trial etc etc. Lapped up by the BBC, AFP and others.

Thaksin will spin this to promote his conviction as "unfair" hence the reason he ran and block out reference to the 15 other outstanding charges.

Now she will be able to prove the statements she made about being 'forced' out of the country. She knew then that self-exile was her only option if/when charged. She was never going to face the courts as she knew what the verdict would be. Another self-exiled Shinawatra and I'm now waiting for the investigations to get around to the older sister with the 'large' political presence. I understand, from various sources, that she is/was deeply involved in the Rice Support Scheme corruption. The sooner the Shinawatras are purged from Thailand the better off it will be.

[wprime]

Ruled guilty of malfeasance and given a free pass out of the country, with son, no less.

Yup, 100% guaranteed she is not coming back.

Gotta say, the junta just went down (a lot) in my opinion of them, if they do not revoke her free pass immediately.

Let's hope they at least seize all of the Shinawatra assets still in Thailand.

Arresting the former prime minister is a giant red flag which would be noticed and likely responded to by the international community.

This development appears to me to be a giant face saving solution for everyone involved.

Same thing they did with Thaksin - how did that work out? Learning from one's mistakes isn't popular here.

[rubl]

Whether she is really guilty or not, her story will be exactly the same as Thaksin.

She ran because she couldn't get a fair trial. This story will run and run.

Quite a neat conclusion though. The shins are sent on their way, and the reform/cleansing can continue.

Minor correction only. If you want to presume she'll run, something still to be seen though, it would be a case of

"she ran BEFORE she could get a fair trial"

[wealth]

wonder what the attacks from abroad will be now. If she gets a warrant one can be sure there will have a concerted attack with Amsterdam and Holland (law firms), unjustified though.

[englishoak]

96tehtarp, this is simply the sensationalist headline on a website. Most newspapers and websites involved with news, love headline grabbing titles.

They are simply saying the first stage of investigation has decided there is weight to the accusation.

Now it's up to the judges to prove the case or not.

Sensationalist headlines are quite often politically motivated. It's called spin.

The enemy are always guilty!

If she is guilty she can live in Dubai. Why bother with a trial for any criminal just send them out of the country and if they don't come back they are guilty. If they do come back they are innocent. Done deal sure fire can't fail test.. Think of the money they could save with the super scaled down judicial system.

I cant think of a more stupid thing for an american to say.

Have a chat with amnesty international about your theory of people who flee a country by default means being criminals.

I thought you were all about real justice and reform rather than just another nepotist regime ? I guess not shallow hal.

Can save even more money by just lining up any opposition and shooting them or save more by using a knife would that work for you too

[rubl]

In their eagerness to banish the Shin clan from Thai politics, the boys with big guns - at the behest of their masters - have thrown the baby (democracy) out with the bathwater (the Shins). A brave new world is enticing to many people. And the junta is well aware of that.

and now I'm wondering how this post relates to the 500 billion (or more) Baht the RPPS has cost the country and for which former PM Ms. Yingluck c.s is responsible

[Trembly]

I think the strategy of the NCPO is actually quite simple:

They allow her to leave the country for a "temporary trip", from which pretty everyone with a brain knows that she most probably won't return. Meanwhile, NACC rules that she is guilty. Case moves on to the court. If YL does indeed return, she'll have to go on trial. If she does not return, it shows (also to the world community) that she is guilty. Only a guilty person would flee the country.

But when she leaves on the 21st, please kindly make sure to subject her 20+ suitcases to a thorough search. She has drained enough from this country - and there is plenty left in assorted bank accounts already established overseas for her and her big brother to buy up Montenegro two times over. Yingluck may leave. Her son, too. Her jewelry may not. If 19 suitcases are found to only contain Mama noodles to sustain her during her 20-day vacation, let her leave in peace.

Whether she is really guilty or not, her story will be exactly the same as Thaksin.

She ran because she couldn't get a fair trial. This story will run and run.

Quite a neat conclusion though. The shins are sent on their way, and the reform/cleansing can continue.

I'm sure you're right. She won't simply fade away. The story will run - fled persecution and show trial etc etc. Lapped up by the BBC, AFP and others.

Thaksin will spin this to promote his conviction as "unfair" hence the reason he ran and block out reference to the 15 other outstanding charges.

Now she will be able to prove the statements she made about being 'forced' out of the country. She knew then that self-exile was her only option if/when charged. She was never going to face the courts as she knew what the verdict would be. Another self-exiled Shinawatra and I'm now waiting for the investigations to get around to the older sister with the 'large' political presence. I understand, from various sources, that she is/was deeply involved in the Rice Support Scheme corruption. The sooner the Shinawatras are purged from Thailand the better off it will be.

According to the Thai political grapevine, it was Arisman who 'sang' that Yaowapa was the mastermind behind the rice scheme.

[englishoak]

This determination of guilt without trial is definitely not politically motivated.

The trial comes after the decision by the NACC to indict her.

That is the next stage.

If she is innocent of negligence, she should return after her shopping trip to clear her name.

She has the money to hire the best lawyers.

From the headline in the OP

"Graft buster rules Yingluck guilty"

She will get a fair trail because everyone including her lawyers know these charges are not politically motivated.

How could they possibly be politically motivated when politics has been outlawed by the junta?

Why or why must the Shin faithful insist that any comment or action against them must be politically motivated?

Really, you think she's innocent, that not bothering to turn up for one single meeting she was supposed to chair, that all the comments about there being no missing rice or corruption, all the false promises to pay farmers was all acceptable?

But of course, you've reviewed all the evidence, witness statements in coming to your learned opinion.

The NACC believe there is enough evidence to indict her. She should come back and robustly defend herself. She has the money to hire the best lawyers, although explaining how not bothering to turn up and doing anything is not negligence is a tad difficult - and certainly not political motivated.

No bear if they were serious she should not be allowed out of the country until after the case, they have a number of revoked passports they dont need to allow a very likely runner an opportunity to flee.

I cannot think of many more likely candidates with her family background and examples.... either its a forced stay to face the music or its a a deal.

Id like to see it done in court wouldnt you ?

Only one group has the keys to the back door exit and its not Yingluck or her brother. At least see this for what it is.

[rubl]

It dosnt really matter if shes really guilty or not, making this public statement has already signed sealed and delivered the verdict at any trial.

Complete and utter nonsense!

What you are saying is that anyone who is known to be charge for allegedly having committed a crime will automatically have the verdict prepared only because of the public statement.

Now I wonder of course what you would say if there had been no public statement only a knock on the door in the night, allegedly guilty person dragged to court while no one may attend, and following the judges open an envelope and read out the verdict.