US chides Russia over Ukraine plane crash

[Soutpeel]

Rijb , you seem to like following me around - seem to have some infatuation or something. It's obviously not healthy. Re-read what I said, as opposed to jumping to a conclusion. I like the US, I'll be there in a few weeks, I like the majority of the people. I don't like The US Foreign Policy, end of. Now run along back to school.

Why do you ‘intellectuals’ post the same crap in these news forums?

‘Let he who is without sin cast the first stone’ might work in the bible.

But, it doesn’t work for nations. Every nation, including your sorry excuse for a country, has sinned!

Somebody just killed a bunch of people. All ‘sinner’ nations should be yelling (not chiding) on top of their lungs for justice.

Let me guess your favourite "news" channel is Fox ?

[Travel2003]

Never trust a Russian.

Have been a neighbor long enough to learn that.

[mrtoad]

Rijb , you seem to like following me around - seem to have some infatuation or something. It's obviously not healthy. Re-read what I said, as opposed to jumping to a conclusion. I like the US, I'll be there in a few weeks, I like the majority of the people. I don't like The US Foreign Policy, end of. Now run along back to school.

Why do you intellectuals post the same crap in these news forums?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone might work in the bible.

But, it doesnt work for nations. Every nation, including your sorry excuse for a country, has sinned!

Somebody just killed a bunch of people. All sinner nations should be yelling (not chiding) on top of their lungs for justice.

Let me guess your favourite "news" channel is Fox ?

I think that goes without saying SP.

It's flattering he likes to read my posts, it's disappointing despite attending school he can't comprehend them.

[Soutpeel]

Never trust a Russian.

Have been a neighbor long enough to learn that.

Seriously I disagree, I work with quite a few Russian lads, yes at first these is an air of paraniod distrust from them, but once you get to know them and they know you, they will do anything for you, I have lost count of how many times I have been invited to Russia to visit the guys I work with and their familes, yes like any nation there are the good and the bad

[capcc76]

Lol at the looney tune brigade!

[arisaje]

Obama has now 'chided' the Russians! I'm sure Putin is quaking in his boots!

Putin has gotten himself into something he has lost total control of...

Putin and the Russian state are not in any way a match for NATO so although he probably isn't quaking.....he will be scrambling for excuses and back peddling as fast as possible.

I do business in Ukraine and the rebels have lost 85% of the territory they held just 3 weeks ago......why? because Russia doesn't know what to do next, its started something that it cannot finish.

[slipperylobster]

Obama has now 'chided' the Russians! I'm sure Putin is quaking in his boots!

Putin has gotten himself into something he has lost total control of...

Putin and the Russian state are not in any way a match for NATO so although he probably isn't quaking.....he will be scrambling for excuses and back peddling as fast as possible.

I do business in Ukraine and the rebels have lost 85% of the territory they held just 3 weeks ago......why? because Russia doesn't know what to do next, its started something that it cannot finish.

Russia is on it's way to becoming, once again, an economic pariah in the global community. Europe should be a bit more forceful....economically, not militarily.

I would expect a bit more force in that regard, by the European Community.

Edited July 18, 2014 by slipperylobster

[Asiantravel]

Obama has now 'chided' the Russians! I'm sure Putin is quaking in his boots!

Putin has gotten himself into something he has lost total control of...

Putin and the Russian state are not in any way a match for NATO so although he probably isn't quaking.....he will be scrambling for excuses and back peddling as fast as possible.

I do business in Ukraine and the rebels have lost 85% of the territory they held just 3 weeks ago......why? because Russia doesn't know what to do next, its started something that it cannot finish.

Russia is on it's way to becoming, once again, an economic pariah in the global community. Europe should be a bit more forceful....economically, not militarily.

I would expect a bit more force in that regard, by the European Community.

And if that happened, I would expect China to equally defend its ally against such aggression

[slipperylobster]

Obama has now 'chided' the Russians! I'm sure Putin is quaking in his boots!

Putin has gotten himself into something he has lost total control of...

Putin and the Russian state are not in any way a match for NATO so although he probably isn't quaking.....he will be scrambling for excuses and back peddling as fast as possible.

I do business in Ukraine and the rebels have lost 85% of the territory they held just 3 weeks ago......why? because Russia doesn't know what to do next, its started something that it cannot finish.

Russia is on it's way to becoming, once again, an economic pariah in the global community. Europe should be a bit more forceful....economically, not militarily.

I would expect a bit more force in that regard, by the European Community.

And if that happened, I would expect China to equally defend its ally against such aggression

Economic defense by China ???

We are not talking military...but economic force.

China has no Economic Force as of yet....perhaps later. But this is not about China at all, is it.

[khunken]

Putin has gotten himself into something he has lost total control of...

Putin and the Russian state are not in any way a match for NATO so although he probably isn't quaking.....he will be scrambling for excuses and back peddling as fast as possible.

I do business in Ukraine and the rebels have lost 85% of the territory they held just 3 weeks ago......why? because Russia doesn't know what to do next, its started something that it cannot finish.

Russia is on it's way to becoming, once again, an economic pariah in the global community. Europe should be a bit more forceful....economically, not militarily.

I would expect a bit more force in that regard, by the European Community.

And if that happened, I would expect China to equally defend its ally against such aggression

Economic defense by China ???

We are not talking military...but economic force.

China has no Economic Force as of yet....perhaps later. But this is not about China at all, is it.

No it's not about China but it's totally ridiculous to say they have no economic force. They happen to be the second largest economy in the world with huge clout. They have recently signed a very large agreement to take Russian oil and gas giving Russia an alternative to it's - in danger - EU supplies.

BTW Russia is not the real pariah as it didn't start the Ukrainian split and civil war - the EU did at the US's prodding to get yet more NATO bases across Europe. It's all going to cost EU citizens a bundle when the aid and rebuilding Ukraine are factored in.

[mrtoad]

Obama has now 'chided' the Russians! I'm sure Putin is quaking in his boots!

Putin has gotten himself into something he has lost total control of...

Putin and the Russian state are not in any way a match for NATO so although he probably isn't quaking.....he will be scrambling for excuses and back peddling as fast as possible.

I do business in Ukraine and the rebels have lost 85% of the territory they held just 3 weeks ago......why? because Russia doesn't know what to do next, its started something that it cannot finish.

Russia is on it's way to becoming, once again, an economic pariah in the global community. Europe should be a bit more forceful....economically, not militarily.

I would expect a bit more force in that regard, by the European Community.

The EU are partly to blame for this current stand off, the expansionist policies of The EU were not going to go unnoticed by Uncle Vlad. The EU despite all it's bluster also needs something that Ukraine and Russia have.

[Pralaad]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Surprise surprise, yet US has no comment on Ukrainian military shelling Russian civilians, hospitals and schools

....when was this?

do I have to google it?

maybe I was sleeping that day.....

No, US television does not show it, otherwise US will look little silly.

Though few days ago BBC did run a quick coverage of Ukrainian army destroying hospital and near by houses killing something like 20 civilians .

Then of course there was Odessa , where few dozens died, burned alive while police stood by watching and of course not a single word out if US

[HughJass]

great thread for showing how ignorance and patriotism go together

[NeilSA1]

A country with so much blood on it's hands, that created a far more unsafe world with it's ridiculous War on of Terror. A country that has one of the most corrupt election systems, preaching to the world about Democracy; one the supplies weapons to murous countries with dubious human rights records. Really couldn't make it up.

Anti-Americanism. The gift that keeps on giving. I think this thread is about a current thing that Russia is probably culpable in, not the USA.

The pot cannot blame the cattle.

"The pot calling the kettle black" is an idiom used to claim that a person is guilty of the very thing of which they accuse another.

[BadBouy]

Surprise surprise, yet US has no comment on Ukrainian military shelling Russian civilians, hospitals and schools

Please explain, how do you equate a commercial airliner being shot down in international airspace with what going on in country during a civil war?

What do Dutch, Malaysian, and passengers of various other nationalities have to do with what is going on in the Ukraine?

Is this the way Russian/Ukrainian separatists plan to garner sympathy for their cause by shooting innocent airline passengers out of the sky?

Do you really think Mr Putin can be bothered by US political chiding? You really shouldn't let it bother you enough to say things like that, from reading your prior posts on other topics your better than that.

[Pralaad]

Surprise surprise, yet US has no comment on Ukrainian military shelling Russian civilians, hospitals and schools

Please explain, how do you equate a commercial airliner being shot down in international airspace with what going on in country during a civil war?

What do Dutch, Malaysian, and passengers of various other nationalities have to do with what is going on in the Ukraine?

Is this the way Russian/Ukrainian separatists plan to garner sympathy for their cause by shooting innocent airline passengers out of the sky?

Do you really think Mr Putin can be bothered by US political chiding? You really shouldn't let it bother you enough to say things like that, from reading your prior posts on other topics your better than that.

With pleasure.

US makes lots of noise when airplane is shut down, and points fingers without any proof

US does not make a single noise when Ukrainian military bombs civilians, targets schools and hospitals.

US does no make a single noise when Ukrainian fascists burn people alive.

Whats worse, white house spoke woman has "no comment" when asked on the matters.

You have no clue who shot down the plane and if it was intentional, so i would not be speculating just for the sake of it.

Ukrainian military has killed already more civilians than the amount of passengers on the plane, not to mention dozens of thousands are displaced and yet again not even 1 single word from US.

It is only fair to be fair

[wooloomooloo]

Ukrainian military has killed already more civilians than the amount of passengers on the plane, not to mention dozens of thousands are displaced and yet again not even 1 single word from US.

It is only fair to be fair

Thank God for righteous justification for the downing of MH17. I feel better already.

[Pralaad]

Ukrainian military has killed already more civilians than the amount of passengers on the plane, not to mention dozens of thousands are displaced and yet again not even 1 single word from US.

It is only fair to be fair

Thank God for righteous justification for the downing of MH17. I feel better already.

If you bother to read or able to comprehend this thread and my post is NOT about justifications for plane being shot down, but about reaction from US.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Pralaad

[simple1]

Latest reports in Oz media have translated radio intercepts between the pro seperatists. It reads that the seperatists had thought they had shot down a miltary transport aircraft. I assume the pro seperatists do not have sufficient target identification capability, prior to an attack, together with command & control discipline

With 28 Australian deaths, strong criitic by Oz PM of Russian ambassador's response blaiming the Ukraine.

[BadBouy]

A country with so much blood on it's hands, that created a far more unsafe world with it's ridiculous War on of Terror. A country that has one of the most corrupt election systems, preaching to the world about Democracy; one the supplies weapons to murous countries with dubious human rights records. Really couldn't make it up.

Anti-Americanism. The gift that keeps on giving. I think this thread is about a current thing that Russia is probably culpable in, not the USA.

No JT- it's called realism.

Neither Russia, The UK or America have anything to be proud of regarding their foreign policies.

This thread is about commenting on Pillock Obhamas chiding of Russia.

Mr Toad,

I agree the thread is about BO's chiding, but twice you mention "A country with so much blood on it's hands" "A country that has one of the most corrupt election systems,"

A country embodies its people as well as it's government therefore your statement is easily construed as anti American. You can not expect those reading your posts to know what you are thinking unless you state it clearly. I do not believe you are anti American nor a racist, more likely an egotistical, arrogant pissant that is always full of criticism while having no solutions. Perhaps a reincarnation of Neville Chamberlain or John Wemmick.

Every head of state should speak out against the shooting down of innocent people on a commercial airliner and Mr Putin has some recent history of instigating and exacerbating problems here. I hope that there is not blood on his hands from this incident and BO is just spouting his usual drivel.

[BadBouy]

Surprise surprise, yet US has no comment on Ukrainian military shelling Russian civilians, hospitals and schools

Please explain, how do you equate a commercial airliner being shot down in international airspace with what going on in country during a civil war?

What do Dutch, Malaysian, and passengers of various other nationalities have to do with what is going on in the Ukraine?

Is this the way Russian/Ukrainian separatists plan to garner sympathy for their cause by shooting innocent airline passengers out of the sky?

Do you really think Mr Putin can be bothered by US political chiding? You really shouldn't let it bother you enough to say things like that, from reading your prior posts on other topics your better than that.

With pleasure.

US makes lots of noise when airplane is shut down, and points fingers without any proof

US does not make a single noise when Ukrainian military bombs civilians, targets schools and hospitals.

US does no make a single noise when Ukrainian fascists burn people alive.

Whats worse, white house spoke woman has "no comment" when asked on the matters.

You have no clue who shot down the plane and if it was intentional, so i would not be speculating just for the sake of it.

Ukrainian military has killed already more civilians than the amount of passengers on the plane, not to mention dozens of thousands are displaced and yet again not even 1 single word from US.

It is only fair to be fair

You continue to equate what is going on in a civil war to what happens in international airspace. Ukrainian army may be guilty of many atrocities we hear nothing praise nor condemnation over what is happening there. The US also said little when Russia was taking care of the problems they had in Chechnya. If it were up to me people would settle things by discussion but that is not reality.

I do have a clue as to what I am talking about, the Ukrainian army stands nothing to gain by shooting down a commercial airliner, they also posses radar that can identify commercial aircraft, as well as their own. There is a possibility Ukrainian army did it but it is a very remote possibility since it is more likely they would send a fighter up to check it out if there was a doubt about a single transport plane.

As tragic as it may be what happens with in the confines of a civil war, when it moves outside its borders into international borders it is every bodies problem. Pointing the finger at Mr Putin may be wrong but it is while not proven yet it is extremely likely the missile came from the separatists, and then the question will be where did they get surface to air missiles. Mr Obama is trying to prevent a cover up some thing he is adept at. He is trying to stay one step ahead in the game of cover ups. I as I am sure you do only want the truth.

[Ulic]

Plenty of blame to go around in this tragedy. The area should have been a no fly zone for civilian aircraft. Not sure how much "chiding" Russia gave the USA when it shot down the Iranian passenger aircraft in 1988?(I think it was) The best trained military with the most sophisticated equipment could not differentiate between a transponder equipped passenger aircraft climbing and fighter aircraft in an attacking dive, so surely a poorly trained independence militia with sophisticated surface to air missile system could easily make a identification mistake. Not sure if money changed hands to compensate the families but after a US Navy investigation the ships captain and first officer were given medals for a job well done a during stressful difficult time.Those who made the mistake should own up to it. Plenty off mistakes in the fog of war. The EU the US, Ukraine and Russia share the blame on how the whole situation has unfolded in the Ukraine over the past year. This is just one tragic result of many unfolding there.

[Scott]

Members who are going to use this thread to just take senseless political statements are going to find their posts deleted and risk a formal warning and suspension. We get it, some of you think that the US is the nexus of all things evil. We also get that others think that Russia exists as the nexus of all things evil.

Neither is probably true, but the thread is about an airline disaster.

Please be respectful of the opinions of others with whom you may disagree. And please refrain from inflammatory remarks.

[Pralaad]

Surprise surprise, yet US has no comment on Ukrainian military shelling Russian civilians, hospitals and schools

Please explain, how do you equate a commercial airliner being shot down in international airspace with what going on in country during a civil war?

What do Dutch, Malaysian, and passengers of various other nationalities have to do with what is going on in the Ukraine?

Is this the way Russian/Ukrainian separatists plan to garner sympathy for their cause by shooting innocent airline passengers out of the sky?

Do you really think Mr Putin can be bothered by US political chiding? You really shouldn't let it bother you enough to say things like that, from reading your prior posts on other topics your better than that.

With pleasure.

US makes lots of noise when airplane is shut down, and points fingers without any proof

US does not make a single noise when Ukrainian military bombs civilians, targets schools and hospitals.

US does no make a single noise when Ukrainian fascists burn people alive.

Whats worse, white house spoke woman has "no comment" when asked on the matters.

You have no clue who shot down the plane and if it was intentional, so i would not be speculating just for the sake of it.

Ukrainian military has killed already more civilians than the amount of passengers on the plane, not to mention dozens of thousands are displaced and yet again not even 1 single word from US.

It is only fair to be fair

You continue to equate what is going on in a civil war to what happens in international airspace. Ukrainian army may be guilty of many atrocities we hear nothing praise nor condemnation over what is happening there. The US also said little when Russia was taking care of the problems they had in Chechnya. If it were up to me people would settle things by discussion but that is not reality.

I do have a clue as to what I am talking about, the Ukrainian army stands nothing to gain by shooting down a commercial airliner, they also posses radar that can identify commercial aircraft, as well as their own. There is a possibility Ukrainian army did it but it is a very remote possibility since it is more likely they would send a fighter up to check it out if there was a doubt about a single transport plane.

As tragic as it may be what happens with in the confines of a civil war, when it moves outside its borders into international borders it is every bodies problem. Pointing the finger at Mr Putin may be wrong but it is while not proven yet it is extremely likely the missile came from the separatists, and then the question will be where did they get surface to air missiles. Mr Obama is trying to prevent a cover up some thing he is adept at. He is trying to stay one step ahead in the game of cover ups. I as I am sure you do only want the truth.

Do tell what do separatist have to gain by shooting down the plane?

What evidence does US have that Russia was involved?

What evidence does US have it was the rebels?

And the answer is none. its all a speculation with quick action to put a blame somewhere.

Chechnyan conflict was well covered and lots to say.

Pro Russian rebels are NOT fighting to gain land or to advance their position. They are fighting to keep their land and their right to speak the language which they have spoken for almost 100 years.

US is blaming Russia for supplying the weapons, what is NOT being mentioned is that Ukrainian army also has BUK's and they had one in Donetsk, which veery possibly could mean rebels captured it from the Ukrainian army.

Place blame where its due, instead of using tragedy as political tool

[simple1]

The radio intercepts of seperatist radio traffic claiming they had shot down the aircraft are below, thought it was a military aircraft. Will there be endless post claiming the reports are BS and an anti seperatist / Russian conspiracy

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

[Pralaad]

The radio intercepts of seperatist radio traffic claiming they had shot down the aircraft are below, thought it was a military aircraft. Will there be endless post claiming the reports are BS and an anti seperatist / Russian conspiracy

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

Kyiv post is your reliable source?

Following the report and your previous post that they do not have sophisticated technology to know, one can assume Russia is not supplying weapons or trained personnel , because if Russia did , rebels would have sophisticated weaponry,

Do not you think ?

[slipperylobster]

Putin has gotten himself into something he has lost total control of...

Putin and the Russian state are not in any way a match for NATO so although he probably isn't quaking.....he will be scrambling for excuses and back peddling as fast as possible.

I do business in Ukraine and the rebels have lost 85% of the territory they held just 3 weeks ago......why? because Russia doesn't know what to do next, its started something that it cannot finish.

Russia is on it's way to becoming, once again, an economic pariah in the global community. Europe should be a bit more forceful....economically, not militarily.

I would expect a bit more force in that regard, by the European Community.

No it's not about China but it's totally ridiculous to say they have no economic force. They happen to be the second largest economy in the world with huge clout. They have recently signed a very large agreement to take Russian oil and gas giving Russia an alternative to it's - in danger - EU supplies.

BTW Russia is not the real pariah as it didn't start the Ukrainian split and civil war - the EU did at the US's prodding to get yet more NATO bases across Europe. It's all going to cost EU citizens a bundle when the aid and rebuilding Ukraine are factored in.

Time will tell eh..

Predicting that Russia becomes an Economic Pariah within a month. EU will join in Sanctions.

Best to live in reality....

China........copycats at best. They are communist at heart, no matter how many ripoff products they copy from the west.

[Jingthing]

There was one U.S. citizen on the doomed plane:

Quinn Lucas Schansman

A young man, he was a dual citizen with the Netherlands.

His nationality only relevant in context of the increased new cold war like tensions aggravated by this incident.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[simple1]

The radio intercepts of seperatist radio traffic claiming they had shot down the aircraft are below, thought it was a military aircraft. Will there be endless post claiming the reports are BS and an anti seperatist / Russian conspiracy

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

Kyiv post is your reliable source?

Following the report and your previous post that they do not have sophisticated technology to know, one can assume Russia is not supplying weapons or trained personnel , because if Russia did , rebels would have sophisticated weaponry,

Do not you think ?

Plenty of media reports quoting various sources disputing whether the pro separatists’ do / do not have the capability to bring down a high flying aircraft; it's an evolving analysis. For the moment, it is claimed the separatists’ do have the ground to air capability, but a tragic error of judgement (perhaps lack of discipline to launch against a target that was not positively identified) was made in that they thought had shot down a military transport aircraft, not maliciously attacking a civilian aircraft - as per the alledged radio intercept.

From yet another news source:

Russia has supplied training, tanks, armored vehicles, rocket launchers and antiaircraft systems to the separatists, according to U.S. intelligence. Pentagon officials said it was unlikely the separatists could have brought down the airliner without Moscow's help.

"The SA-11 ... is a sophisticated piece of technology, and it strains credulity to think that it could be used by separatists without at least some measure of Russian support and technical assistance," Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, said at a news conference. Kirby said "some separatists have received some training in these vehicle-borne systems. There's no question about that."

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-obama-ukraine-20140719-story.html#page=1

Edited July 19, 2014 by simple1

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted. If you want a private discussion about US foreign policy, please find another thread or do it by PM. Rules still apply to PM exchanges.