US chides Russia over Ukraine plane crash

[lovetotravel]

Do tell what do separatist have to gain by shooting down the plane?

What evidence does US have that Russia was involved?

What evidence does US have it was the rebels?

And the answer is none. its all a speculation with quick action to put a blame somewhere.

Chechnyan conflict was well covered and lots to say.

Pro Russian rebels are NOT fighting to gain land or to advance their position. They are fighting to keep their land and their right to speak the language which they have spoken for almost 100 years.

US is blaming Russia for supplying the weapons, what is NOT being mentioned is that Ukrainian army also has BUK's and they had one in Donetsk, which veery possibly could mean rebels captured it from the Ukrainian army.

Place blame where its due, instead of using tragedy as political tool

The separatists have nothing to gain from this. They screwed up, as reported here (not verified, but makes sense). This is not the first plane they've shot down lately:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28362872

The missile's radar was detected by US radar before the plane went down. The location was near the Russian border controlled by separatists sponsored by Russia:

http://nypost.com/2014/07/17/malaysian-passenger-plane-shot-down-over-ukraine/

A BUK missile, with at least one apparently missing, was spotted leaving Ukraine for Russia:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/video-shows-missile-launcher-leaving-3880198

http://www.news.com.au/world/is-this-the-buk-m2-rocket-launcher-that-blasted-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-out-of-the-sky/story-fndir2ev-1226994397743

Nothing has been finalized, but it's starting to look like it was an accidental shooting by the rebels.

[katana]

Looking for a precedent of a civilian airliner being shot down by the military reminded me of Iran Air Flight 655 brought down by a missile 26 years ago with 290 lives lost.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[mrtoad]

There was one U.S. citizen on the doomed plane:

Quinn Lucas Schansman

A young man, he was a dual citizen with the Netherlands.

His nationality only relevant in context of the increased new cold war like tensions aggravated by this incident.

JT, it makes no difference what nationalities were on that plane, what is needed is a proper, objective, and non political investigation as to what happened.

The 300 innocent people who were murdered and their families deserve that. It's been a sad 48 hours, seeing the pathetic politicos fighting it out.

Most of us, I would hope couldn't care less about nationality and are able to get on with people from all over the world.

[mrtoad]

Looking for a precedent of a civilian airliner being shot down by the military reminded me of Iran Air Flight 655 brought down by a missile 26 years ago with 290 lives lost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Good point, but conveniently forgotten by certain people.

As for MH370 a lot of unanswered questions on military involvement in that

[Langsuan Man]

Looking for a precedent of a civilian airliner being shot down by the military reminded me of Iran Air Flight 655 brought down by a missile 26 years ago with 290 lives lost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Since we are going to have a battle of precedents, I am reminded of Korean Air Lines Flight 007

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

[Pralaad]

The radio intercepts of seperatist radio traffic claiming they had shot down the aircraft are below, thought it was a military aircraft. Will there be endless post claiming the reports are BS and an anti seperatist / Russian conspiracy

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

Kyiv post is your reliable source?

Following the report and your previous post that they do not have sophisticated technology to know, one can assume Russia is not supplying weapons or trained personnel , because if Russia did , rebels would have sophisticated weaponry,

Do not you think ?

Plenty of media reports quoting various sources disputing whether the pro separatists’ do / do not have the capability to bring down a high flying aircraft; it's an evolving analysis. For the moment, it is claimed the separatists’ do have the ground to air capability, but a tragic error of judgement (perhaps lack of discipline to launch against a target that was not positively identified) was made in that they thought had shot down a military transport aircraft, not maliciously attacking a civilian aircraft - as per the alledged radio intercept.

From yet another news source:

Russia has supplied training, tanks, armored vehicles, rocket launchers and antiaircraft systems to the separatists, according to U.S. intelligence. Pentagon officials said it was unlikely the separatists could have brought down the airliner without Moscow's help.

"The SA-11 ... is a sophisticated piece of technology, and it strains credulity to think that it could be used by separatists without at least some measure of Russian support and technical assistance," Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, said at a news conference. Kirby said "some separatists have received some training in these vehicle-borne systems. There's no question about that."

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-obama-ukraine-20140719-story.html#page=1

Russia supplied tanks? where are they? Any reason why Pentagon can not provide any hard evidence? If Russia did indeed supply the rebels and provide training, Ukrainian outdated and under supplied military would have been pushed back by now.

They keep claiming Russia supplies weaponry and training as well as personnel, yet not even once managed to provide hard evidence or any evidence at all.

Then claiming rebels did not have sophisticated weaponry to know it was a passenger plane does contradict statements of Russia supplying training, weapons and personnel

Ukraine military could never be blamed even if they are the ones responsible, because that would make US and the rest look very silly.

Who ever shot down the plane, i am certain did not do it intentionally,

If Ukraine is responsible, US and the rest would have to be tough and impose sanctions which they would never do.

If rebels are responsible, not much needs or can be done, but putting blame on Russia makes US and the rest feel good and appear to be doing something.

There are reports Ukrainian military had BUK in Donetsk but lost a number of weaponry to rebels.

So where BUK came from is unknown, but what is known is that blaming Russia makes US and the rest feel more ease.

Why was this plane not re routed? BA and Qantas stopped to use it. Why did Ukrainian traffic control not divert all planes out of war zone?

Why is US propaganda machine working so hard to take all attention away from Ukrainian lack of common sense? Why is no one raising the issue or asking the question?

[Pralaad]

Do tell what do separatist have to gain by shooting down the plane?

What evidence does US have that Russia was involved?

What evidence does US have it was the rebels?

And the answer is none. its all a speculation with quick action to put a blame somewhere.

Chechnyan conflict was well covered and lots to say.

Pro Russian rebels are NOT fighting to gain land or to advance their position. They are fighting to keep their land and their right to speak the language which they have spoken for almost 100 years.

US is blaming Russia for supplying the weapons, what is NOT being mentioned is that Ukrainian army also has BUK's and they had one in Donetsk, which veery possibly could mean rebels captured it from the Ukrainian army.

Place blame where its due, instead of using tragedy as political tool

The separatists have nothing to gain from this. They screwed up, as reported here (not verified, but makes sense). This is not the first plane they've shot down lately:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28362872

The missile's radar was detected by US radar before the plane went down. The location was near the Russian border controlled by separatists sponsored by Russia:

http://nypost.com/2014/07/17/malaysian-passenger-plane-shot-down-over-ukraine/

A BUK missile, with at least one apparently missing, was spotted leaving Ukraine for Russia:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/video-shows-missile-launcher-leaving-3880198

http://www.news.com.au/world/is-this-the-buk-m2-rocket-launcher-that-blasted-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-out-of-the-sky/story-fndir2ev-1226994397743

Nothing has been finalized, but it's starting to look like it was an accidental shooting by the rebels.

As i said, i am certain it was un intentional. The problem i have is with US being quick to blame Russia

As i said, where BUK came from is unknown. If rebels were well supported and supplied, they would have had much better weaponry and accuracy.

Now US claims Russia supplies tanks, Fine, why not produce images of tanks crossing from Russia into Ukraine? Can not exactly smuggle a tank through an underground tunnel.

Again, Why has not US or any EU country questioned Ukraine air traffic control for not re directing planes out of war zone?

Ukraine has not paid gas bill of over 5 billion dollars, but its Russian fault.

Someone shoots down the plane and before anyone knows anything, its already Russian fault.

How about first finding out what really happened before playing bullshit politics?

[MW72]

Do tell what do separatist have to gain by shooting down the plane?

What evidence does US have that Russia was involved?

What evidence does US have it was the rebels?

And the answer is none. its all a speculation with quick action to put a blame somewhere.

Chechnyan conflict was well covered and lots to say.

Pro Russian rebels are NOT fighting to gain land or to advance their position. They are fighting to keep their land and their right to speak the language which they have spoken for almost 100 years.

US is blaming Russia for supplying the weapons, what is NOT being mentioned is that Ukrainian army also has BUK's and they had one in Donetsk, which veery possibly could mean rebels captured it from the Ukrainian army.

Place blame where its due, instead of using tragedy as political tool

The separatists have nothing to gain from this. They screwed up, as reported here (not verified, but makes sense). This is not the first plane they've shot down lately:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28362872

The missile's radar was detected by US radar before the plane went down. The location was near the Russian border controlled by separatists sponsored by Russia:

http://nypost.com/2014/07/17/malaysian-passenger-plane-shot-down-over-ukraine/

A BUK missile, with at least one apparently missing, was spotted leaving Ukraine for Russia:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/video-shows-missile-launcher-leaving-3880198

http://www.news.com.au/world/is-this-the-buk-m2-rocket-launcher-that-blasted-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-out-of-the-sky/story-fndir2ev-1226994397743

Nothing has been finalized, but it's starting to look like it was an accidental shooting by the rebels.

As i said, i am certain it was un intentional. The problem i have is with US being quick to blame Russia

As i said, where BUK came from is unknown. If rebels were well supported and supplied, they would have had much better weaponry and accuracy.

Now US claims Russia supplies tanks, Fine, why not produce images of tanks crossing from Russia into Ukraine? Can not exactly smuggle a tank through an underground tunnel.

Again, Why has not US or any EU country questioned Ukraine air traffic control for not re directing planes out of war zone?

Ukraine has not paid gas bill of over 5 billion dollars, but its Russian fault.

Someone shoots down the plane and before anyone knows anything, its already Russian fault.

How about first finding out what really happened before playing bullshit politics?

There was footage of rebels driving tanks coming from the direction of the Russian border some weeks ago. I'm afraid the camera man wasn't at the border to see them cross but it is pretty likely they were supplied by the Russians.

Plane was flying on a well used flight path taken by many airlines. At that height it would still be under European ATC.

The rebels have been the only side shooting down planes. I'm sure it was unintentional but it could have been avoided if they hadn't been supplied with these weapons.

I agree that we should not be so quick to apportion blame until the facts become clear but too many times larger countries meddle in the affairs of other countries with disastrous consequences for civilians. Western intervention in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya have been disastrous so far and the Russian and western influence in Ukraine has prolonged the conflict.

Sent from my KFTT using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Langsuan Man]

Pralaad we are not talking about someone finding a AK-47 on the battlefield here but a sophisticated air to ground missile system with the ability to down an civilian airliner at over 30,000 feet.

Even if it was the rebels how many rebel fighters do you think would be able to operate such a sophisticated piece of equipment since it certainly was not a shoulder fired weapon

Sorry, but this whole incident has Russian fingerprints all over it

[Jingthing]

There was one U.S. citizen on the doomed plane:

Quinn Lucas Schansman

A young man, he was a dual citizen with the Netherlands.

His nationality only relevant in context of the increased new cold war like tensions aggravated by this incident.

JT, it makes no difference what nationalities were on that plane, what is needed is a proper, objective, and non political investigation as to what happened.

The 300 innocent people who were murdered and their families deserve that. It's been a sad 48 hours, seeing the pathetic politicos fighting it out.

Most of us, I would hope couldn't care less about nationality and are able to get on with people from all over the world.

Your opinion. In my view, a very NAIVE opinion. This incident inflames the already poor relations between Russia and the USA. If there had been 100 Americans on board, it would be inflamed even more. That's basically a fact of life. Yes I am convinced Putin has some culpability and so does the U.S. government.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[NeverSure]

I don't see what the Russians or the rebels could gain by doing this. I see everything to lose as a major world event. The separatists need some credibility if they are trying to have their own self determination. Putin sure doesn't need the egg on his face.

So maybe... It was an accident where the separatists, aided by Russian expertise and missiles shot it down thinking it was military and going to bomb them again...

Or a far out tinfoil could be that the Ukraine government sneaked in and shot it down to make Russia and the separatists look bad.

In the end I think it might turn out to be the accident by the separatists with help from the Russians and Putin might be trying to cover it up.

[MW72]

Pralaad we are not talking about someone finding a AK-47 on the battlefield here but a sophisticated air to ground missile system with the ability to down an civilian airliner at over 30,000 feet.

Even if it was the rebels how many rebel fighters do you think would be able to operate such a sophisticated piece of equipment since it certainly was not a shoulder fired weapon

Sorry, but this whole incident has Russian fingerprints all over it

Broaden your reading to other media not only US.

Ukrainian military willingly and unwillingly gave up a number of arsenal and weaponry.

These are not your African or Arab rebels . Military service was compulsory in former USSR. Most if not all rebels are ex army. BUK used is ancient missile, not your latest hardware

I have to agree with you Pralaad about the BUK. The BUK is not state of the art which is why a huge mistake like this could have happened. The most up to date state of the art long range missile launchers would probably have identified this plane as a civilian plane. Anyone can get an app for their phones nowadays which can update you on live flights. Modern launchers have great radar and comms that would have prevented this from happening. The BUK is an old medium range weapon which uses radar but is stand alone and could not identify the plane. That's only what I know from seeing some guy from Jane's defence being interviewed about the incident. I am not a military hardware geek.

[metisdead]

A post with messed up quotes has been removed as it was difficult to determine who said what.

[joecoolfrog]

Neversure

I think you are almost certainly correct , complete accident and a huge PR disaster for both Putin and the seperatists. British Media up in arms today and I would imagine a lot of anger also in Holland , Malaysia and a few other places.

[Jingthing]

Moving along, the rational world (outside Putin and company's propaganda show) understands now the near certainty that the plane was shot down by the pro-Russia seperatist rebels in Ukraine. The question then becomes was it deliberate to shoot down a commercial airliner? It doesn't seem logical and such a strike would be pure terrorism, but the question needs to be asked and answered.

Here is some background on this question at this point:

So we're left with two possibilities: Either the Ukrainian rebels were deliberately trying to shoot down an airliner or they were trained just well enough to operate the controls but lacked the sophistication to distinguish between different transponder codes.

The evidence seems to point in favor of the latter, for a few reasons. First, shooting down a civilian airliner seems like it would work against the rebels' strategic interest. Second, the SA-11 appears to have been only recently introduced to the theater. Third, phone calls released by the Ukrainian government purporting to be a conversation between rebel leaders suggest that the separatists only found out they'd downed a commercial airliner after the fact.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/07/18/did-the-ukrainian-rebels-even-know-they-were-shooting-at-a-civilian-aircraft/

[Gillyflower]

I think personally, that the pro Russian lot, as they had already shot down 2-3 Ukrainian planes in the preceding days, made a terrible mistake. They mistook their target and shot down a civil plane. I think it is them that should be "chided" as the AFP says.

[Jingthing]

Like I said, the rational world. Not the Putin press controlled world.

[Pralaad]

I think personally, that the pro Russian lot, as they had already shot down 2-3 Ukrainian planes in the preceding days, made a terrible mistake. They mistook their target and shot down a civil plane. I think it is them that should be "chided" as the AFP says.

Either you do not know or may be have forgotten but Ukrainian military shot down Russian plane with 79 people in 2001

So it would not be the first time for Ukrainian military to be mistaken., but thats not to say they did it. Perhaps the reason why Russia calls for independent investigation while US rushes to blame Russia, while Ukraine as usual has undeniable evidence which they can never produce

Now, rebels can not shoot down 2-3 planes, they either shot down 2 or shot down 3

[NeverSure]

Like I said, the rational world. Not the Putin press controlled world.

Yes Jing, only Western controlled media is rational and always truthful, with no hidden agenda's

Putin is the only one who has a dog in this fight. Westerners are scrambling for the truth while being blocked when wanting an open investigation.

[Pralaad]

Like I said, the rational world. Not the Putin press controlled world.

Yes Jing, only Western controlled media is rational and always truthful, with no hidden agenda's

Putin is the only one who has a dog in this fight. Westerners are scrambling for the truth while being blocked when wanting an open investigation.

If you were blamed without any evidence, would you not have a dog?

Westerners? US put the blame on Russia even before it knew anything.

US continues on the same path.

Thankfully other EU countries are little more rational and acting as such

[joecoolfrog]

Pralaad

The BBC criticises the British Prime Minister and questions government policy on a daily basis. Likewise Newspapers do not slavishly follow a pro government agenda and journalists are not routinely persecuted for failing to toe the line.

Are you so seriously deluded or biased to think that the Russian Media has even a fraction of the same level of independence ?

[IAMSOBAD]

Even the top reporter for RT NEWS...QUIT her job because she knows Russia was doing a cover-up. It is a FACT!

[NeverSure]

Like I said, the rational world. Not the Putin press controlled world.

Yes Jing, only Western controlled media is rational and always truthful, with no hidden agenda's

Putin is the only one who has a dog in this fight. Westerners are scrambling for the truth while being blocked when wanting an open investigation.

If you were blamed without any evidence, would you not have a dog?

Westerners? US put the blame on Russia even before it knew anything.

US continues on the same path.

Thankfully other EU countries are little more rational and acting as such

"American spying satellites could help solve the mystery of what — and who — shot down Malaysia Airlines flight 17.

The plane crashed in war-torn Eastern Ukraine Thursday, killing all of the 298 people on board. Reports quickly blamed the disaster on a missile launch, and a high-tech, infrared U.S. satellite confirmed the news, and missile analysts told the Los Angeles Times.

Fleets of the spying satellites, called measurement and signature intelligence, or MASINT, orbit the Earth to track electronic signals. That means they picked up the heat of the missile launch when it shot 33,000 feet up and struck the Boeing 777.

"They would have known exactly where it was launched, where it was headed, and the rate at which it was traveling," Riki Ellison, founder of the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance, told the Los Angeles Times." LINK

"American intelligence and military officials said the plane had been destroyed by a Russian SA-series missile" LINK

Putin is in full cover up mode, not allowing an independent international investigation. Any criticism he gets is well deserved.

[simple1]

Like I said, the rational world. Not the Putin press controlled world.

Yes Jing, only Western controlled media is rational and always truthful, with no hidden agenda's

Putin is the only one who has a dog in this fight. Westerners are scrambling for the truth while being blocked when wanting an open investigation.

If you were blamed without any evidence, would you not have a dog?

Westerners? US put the blame on Russia even before it knew anything.

US continues on the same path.

Thankfully other EU countries are little more rational and acting as such

I find it extraordinary that you keep denying the strong likelihood that the pro-Russian separatists are at fault. On site media reports that the separatists blocked access to international investigators. Locals looting bodies, unable to even recover the bodies and so on even though with armed separatists in control of the crash site. I believe I am correct, not a word of condemnation from you

It has only just been reported that the separatists have permitted a lock down of the area of the crash site for recovery of bodies, gathering of evidence etc. One would think this would have been their first response, not after two days of international pressure.

I agree with others more likely than not of an accidental shoot down of a civilian passenger aircraft, but the separatists and the Russian government have done themselves no favours, to date, in the manner of handling this tragedy

Edited July 19, 2014 by simple1

[Pralaad]

I find it extraordinary that you keep denying the strong likelihood that the pro-Russian separatists are at fault. On site media reports that the separatists blocked access to international investigators. Locals looting bodies, unable to even recover the bodies and so on even though with armed separatists in control of the crash site. I believe I am correct, not a word of condemnation from you

It has only just been reported that the separatists have permitted a lock down of the area of the crash site for recovery of bodies, gathering of evidence etc. One would think this would have been their first response, not after two days of international pressure.

I agree with others more likely than not of an accidental shoot down of a civilian passenger aircraft, but the separatists and the Russian government have done themselves no favours, to date, in the manner of handling this tragedy

Yes the Western propaganda machine is in full swing, i do not find it surprising for you think other wise.

One poster has presented all the evidence that US knows and has the evidence, which for someone reason they have not produced.

You know and all your sources know, so what is there to investigate?

Russia and Putin has done nothing inappropriate at all, if anything, blame for turning a tragedy into a freak show should be attributed to US.

How rebels handling the situation has very little to do with Russia or Putin, no matter how hard US tries to spin it.

How Ukraine handling situation has everything to do with US, so instead of offering truce period to investigate, Ukraine has intensified the bombardment. Now who benefits from that?

May be if US uses its spy satellite and releases evidence of Putin 'supporting" the rebels, only then you would have some claim

Lets see how it plans out for them in the coming days

PS. as i have already posted, Ukraine has downed passenger plane in 2001, which all US media failed to mention, so naturally US needs to blame Russia, otherwise it would appear that US supports a regime which shoots down civilian planes

Edited July 19, 2014 by Pralaad

[arisaje]

I find it extraordinary that you keep denying the strong likelihood that the pro-Russian separatists are at fault. On site media reports that the separatists blocked access to international investigators. Locals looting bodies, unable to even recover the bodies and so on even though with armed separatists in control of the crash site. I believe I am correct, not a word of condemnation from you

It has only just been reported that the separatists have permitted a lock down of the area of the crash site for recovery of bodies, gathering of evidence etc. One would think this would have been their first response, not after two days of international pressure.

I agree with others more likely than not of an accidental shoot down of a civilian passenger aircraft, but the separatists and the Russian government have done themselves no favours, to date, in the manner of handling this tragedy

Yes the Western propaganda machine is in full swing, i do not find it surprising for you think other wise.

One poster has presented all the evidence that US knows and has the evidence, which for someone reason they have not produced.

You know and all your sources know, so what is there to investigate?

Russia and Putin has done nothing inappropriate at all, if anything, blame for turning a tragedy into a freak show should be attributed to US.

How rebels handling the situation has very little to do with Russia or Putin, no matter how hard US tries to spin it.

How Ukraine handling situation has everything to do with US, so instead of offering truce period to investigate, Ukraine has intensified the bombardment. Now who benefits from that?

May be if US uses its spy satellite and releases evidence of Putin 'supporting" the rebels, only then you would have some claim

Lets see how it plans out for them in the coming days

PS. as i have already posted, Ukraine has downed passenger plane in 2001, which all US media failed to mention, so naturally US needs to blame Russia, otherwise it would appear that US supports a regime which shoots down civilian planes

@Pralaad... i am not sure if you live in a cave and haven't watched tv or read any papers in the past few months, but these 'rebels' are Pro-Russian and backed by Moscow, politically, financially and militarily. So your comment about "How rebels handling the situation has very little to do with Russia or Putin, no matter how hard US tries to spin it" doesn't seem to make any sense.

​Of course russia supplied the ground to air missile systems, because they didn't just pick it up at a grocery store...and of course there are Russian military personnel in the region fighting. I have even been told that by Russian work colleagues myself, they brag on local Tv about their fighters going to Ukraine.

The Russian government denied having any involvement in Crimea for weeks, but then admitted "oh okay, yes well we did actually have soldiers on the ground' after weeks of lying to the international world day after day.

​This is a very very tragic event 300 innocent people, but needless to say, the 'Pro-Russian' rebels are not interested in assisting the removal of all those poor innocent men, women and 80 children's bodies from the fields. They are more interested in seeing how they can loot what they find, tamper the evidence and prevent the International world from really seeing what 'barbaric act they actually caused'. If they were innocent, they would be welcoming the investigators with open arms to show what great guys they are.

Southern Luhansk a part of Ukraine populated by Miners, some Old Farming folk and a few thousand Pro-Russian rebels.......let me think 'which of those groups shot down a passenger plane?'

[simple1]

I find it extraordinary that you keep denying the strong likelihood that the pro-Russian separatists are at fault. On site media reports that the separatists blocked access to international investigators. Locals looting bodies, unable to even recover the bodies and so on even though with armed separatists in control of the crash site. I believe I am correct, not a word of condemnation from you

It has only just been reported that the separatists have permitted a lock down of the area of the crash site for recovery of bodies, gathering of evidence etc. One would think this would have been their first response, not after two days of international pressure.

I agree with others more likely than not of an accidental shoot down of a civilian passenger aircraft, but the separatists and the Russian government have done themselves no favours, to date, in the manner of handling this tragedy

Yes the Western propaganda machine is in full swing, i do not find it surprising for you think other wise.

One poster has presented all the evidence that US knows and has the evidence, which for someone reason they have not produced.

You know and all your sources know, so what is there to investigate?

Russia and Putin has done nothing inappropriate at all, if anything, blame for turning a tragedy into a freak show should be attributed to US.

How rebels handling the situation has very little to do with Russia or Putin, no matter how hard US tries to spin it.

How Ukraine handling situation has everything to do with US, so instead of offering truce period to investigate, Ukraine has intensified the bombardment. Now who benefits from that?

May be if US uses its spy satellite and releases evidence of Putin 'supporting" the rebels, only then you would have some claim

Lets see how it plans out for them in the coming days

PS. as i have already posted, Ukraine has downed passenger plane in 2001, which all US media failed to mention, so naturally US needs to blame Russia, otherwise it would appear that US supports a regime which shoots down civilian planes

Don't know about US media coverage, but the US did assist the Russians with investigations & indeed pointed to Ukraine military firing of a test missile as the cause of the crash that the Russians initially dismissed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

[Langsuan Man]

Pralaad,

Read what Aljazeera is writing about this incident and they sure are not a Western propaganda machine in full swing

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/19/ukraine-malaysiaseparatist.html

[joecoolfrog]

I think our Putin apologist must be having fun with us , a bit of gentle Trolling , its the only explanation for the idiotic nonsense he keeps posting.

[Pralaad]

Surprise surprise, yet US has no comment on Ukrainian military shelling Russian civilians, hospitals and schools

Please explain, how do you equate a commercial airliner being shot down in international airspace with what going on in country during a civil war?

What do Dutch, Malaysian, and passengers of various other nationalities have to do with what is going on in the Ukraine?

Is this the way Russian/Ukrainian separatists plan to garner sympathy for their cause by shooting innocent airline passengers out of the sky?

Do you really think Mr Putin can be bothered by US political chiding? You really shouldn't let it bother you enough to say things like that, from reading your prior posts on other topics your better than that.

With pleasure.

US makes lots of noise when airplane is shut down, and points fingers without any proof

US does not make a single noise when Ukrainian military bombs civilians, targets schools and hospitals.

US does no make a single noise when Ukrainian fascists burn people alive.

Whats worse, white house spoke woman has "no comment" when asked on the matters.

You have no clue who shot down the plane and if it was intentional, so i would not be speculating just for the sake of it.

Ukrainian military has killed already more civilians than the amount of passengers on the plane, not to mention dozens of thousands are displaced and yet again not even 1 single word from US.

It is only fair to be fair

The Ukrainian military doesn't need to kill anyone, civilian or military........if the Pro-Russian militia would just lay down their guns and go home. right! or the Russian government stops backing the insurgents.

Your blaming a Ukrainian military for doing the thing it is there to do, defend their country or retake parts the country that have been invaded by insurgents. Civil wars are not at all pleasant civilians are always caught in the cross fire, but it was started the same way as the invasion of Crimea.....but will end a whole lot differently.

I am sure my country's military would also go to war if we were invaded or a bunch of rebels decided they wanted to have their own piece of independence....

I am not blaming anyone, because i do not know, just as you do not, just as US does not.

If you know, please post hard evidence, if US knows please post links to their hard evidence, not what someone thinks, but actual hard evidence.

US also knew about WMD in Iraq,, remember?

Again, in regards to baseless and useless statements that Russia backs the insurgents, please post hard evidence.

You can not, and US can not, because its only what US knows. The same "knows" as WMD in Iraq?

Getting tired of repeating myself, if Russia did supply weaponry, personnel and training, rebels would be advancing, not other way around