Denied entry at Krabi airport...

[xray]

I have 'flipped' passports several times on flights from KUL to BKK, ie. departure stamp from Malaysia is in different passport than the one shown to Thai Immigration on arrival. Never a question asked by Thai Immigration as to where I have come from as it is already written in the Arrival/Departure card which they use to annotate the arrival stamp with the flight number. If they cannot read your handwriting or you have omitted the flight information from the arrival card, they will ask what flight you arrived on or ask for the boarding pass.

The OP arrived in Krabi airport, a southern airport where they have already totally clamped down on visa-exempt entry on the nearby land crossings. Trying to get an idea of what rate of visa-exempt exit/entry or what length of time outside the Kingdom is 'safe' is on a hiding for nothing. As shown by the OP's experience, he was ineligible on one passport and within a minute, eligible on another. The circumstances that led to temporary ineligibility didn't change, just the means of proving eligibility did.

Totally arbitrary. Look it up if one doesn't understand the meaning of arbitrary.

"Totally arbitrary."

Does that mean you suspect someone else in the exact same situation as our OP, with the same two passports and stamps, could be turned around, say just because of appearance, demeanor, age, not moving to Thailand with money, different IO, etc? Or, would most get in with that second passport?

"Trying to get an idea of what rate of visa-exempt exit/entry or what length of time outside the Kingdom is 'safe' is on a hiding for nothing."

Agreed, and it might remain that way. It might remain as a discretionary system, up to given IOs to decide (probably within a set framework). I've read recently that the UK has a similar system, with the IO having discretion in deciding whether or not a traveler has been 'living' in the UK.

[stament]

Yes but his point remains.. That for many 'westerners' arriving to Thai international airports.. There is not prior connecting 'stamp out' to look for.

That is fine, officers know that very well. No problem. If they want to know where you come from they will ask for your boarding pass.

I have never, ever, kept or been asked for that.. In possibly 100 flights into the country..

I dont even keep them after I am in my seat.. I was told this by someone else (your supposed to keep them) but never seen anything official or ever been asked.

A few years ago after arriving in BKK I got asked for this at Immigration. I'd left it on the plane as I always do. What proceeded was a 45min grilling as they didn't believe I'd come from the UK.

[xray]

I have 'flipped' passports several times on flights from KUL to BKK, ie. departure stamp from Malaysia is in different passport than the one shown to Thai Immigration on arrival. Never a question asked by Thai Immigration as to where I have come from as it is already written in the Arrival/Departure card which they use to annotate the arrival stamp with the flight number. If they cannot read your handwriting or you have omitted the flight information from the arrival card, they will ask what flight you arrived on or ask for the boarding pass.

I wonder if that is why Thai Immigration asked me to locate my exit stamp, years ago when I had flown to BKK from India (can’t remember where now). They might not have liked my writing, I could have forgotten my flight number and tossed my boarding pass, or maybe there was just something suspicious about me that the IO felt called for further investigation. I’ve flown into BKK from India about 20 times since the late 1990s and only been asked that one time. Contrast that to traveling in the mid-east in the 1990s, where not only was my previous exit stamp checked in every country I entered, but on occasion every stamp on every page in my passport was looked at.

[hawker9000]

Well, so this new regime teaches us yet another "what to have with you" lesson. Occasionally in years past I've left my boarding pass in my passport, not really intentionally in terms of thinking the IO wanted to see it, but just for want of a better place for it, and had the IO hand it back to me before proceeding with his inspection of my passport. I had sort of gotten the idea that it doesn't make their lives any easier to have miscellany like that stuffed in there. But esp. for flights from the U.S. (with no exit stamp), I guess I'll make it a point to put it in there from now on.

[phylofx]

Just to clarify, you say "a few days" in KL between back to back to back. How many exactly is a few?

Also, are you able to add any other information regarding nationality, age etc etc?

Cheers

I could add lots of info, but I'm not really sure any of it would be relevant. What I think is relevant is that Immigration didn't want any info as to why I was attempting to make a fourth entry.

But since you ask... 2 or 3 days in KL... Canadian/British... 69.

It's relevant because other posts have been suggesting there is an element of profiling going on with some of the decisions.

The number of days in KL is relevant because we are all trying to work out what is meant by the term "back to back" being used by Immigration. If I'm gone 14 days and then back 14 days etc etc .. Is the 14 days absence enough to sever the notion of back to back?

Nobody knows, including the immigration officer.

[NomadJoe]

" No doubt they had to fill out reams of paperwork to deport me"

Not really. They wouldn't be deporting you because you never entered.

But one can appeal (from IDC), That's great paperwork, be reassured..

No, you can't appeal the deportation because you aren't being deported, You are being denied entry, Big difference There is no appeals process for being denied entry. You will not see the inside of the IDC (Immigration detention center) unless you get stupid and violent or threatening.

[Tomtomtom69]

As a US citizen, I am never stamped out of or into the US. However, there have been a number of times that I had to find the stamp-out of the previous country before Immigration would stamp me into the country I had just arrived at. Most immigration officers are good at finding the last stamp-out, but my passport has had so many pages added to it, with so many stamps, that there have been times when I had to find the stamp-out for them...that is the only reason I know that it is looked for, at least by some.

In what countries?

I have been a regular traveller for 25+ years all over the world having lived in a number of countries and worked/travelled to many more. I've never had it happen, so I'm interested to know where

Ditto for me. I have been a very frequent international traveler for fifty years, have visited 65 different countries, and have been through immigration hundreds of times .... and I have NEVER had this happen either.

I believe that it is a certainty then, that in your numerous trips through various immigration over the years, somewhere along the way an IO has checked an exit stamp. They just didn’t need help finding it in your passport. See post #63 of this thread for a report by another poster.

As for land borders, I can say with certainty that it is (or has been in the past) checked. I had to walk back to Cambodian immigration and ask for my exit stamp to be redone at the Trat crossing, because the date was wrong. The Thai IO wouldn’t stamp me in until this was corrected.

Too many personal experiences to list them all, or even remember most.

I drove my own vehicle from LA to Panama and back in 1991. Every country I entered checked my exit stamp (among other items associated with driving a vehicle across the border).

Coming back to India from Bangladesh, I not only had my exit stamp scrutinized, I was accused of having a fake passport because of all the pages that had been added to it. They kept me there for 3 hours and looked at everything to do with my passport.

Somewhere, an IO has checked an exit stamp in your passport, you were just unaware of it.

At land borders, particularly in this region stamps from neighboring countries are always checked except interestingly, China. China doesn't care about whether you have Lao entry/exit stamps or not if doing a turn-around, they just care about their own stamps! Many such stories reported over on GoKunming.com, which in many ways is the Kunming equivalent of TV but obviously not nearly as extensive or with nearly as many contributors.

However, at airports apart from what I'm reading here there is almost never any question about exit stamps from the previous country. The one poster who mentioned this in Cambodia shocked me to be honest. I have many times entered Cambodia by switching passports (obviously when flying in) and never once was I asked about a stamp from the previous country. Nowadays with a 1-year Cambodian visa extension I obviously have to enter Cambodia on that passport as I'm not going to buy a new visa each time (hence the 1-year extension). However, I may decide to use a different passport to enter and exit Thailand in that case, but only if I'm flying to Cambodia. All recent trips have been overland and as just mentioned, stamps were checked.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[KhunSugar]

Yes, I think if they continue to apply the rule so rigidly it will eventually hurt tourism.

They asked me no questions. They had no interest in why I wanted to enter Thailand, whether I had a hotel reservation, onward or return tickets, money, nothing. You have three chops, you can't come back. End of story.

Why not entering the Kingdom with the right visa from the start of your stay, a tourist visa for example ? You would have a few stamps less ;-)

I really not understand why people need to border-run when they pretend to be a tourist.

Just get a visa before leaving your home country.

KS

Mobile

[paz]

No, you can't appeal the deportation because you aren't being deported, You are being denied entry, Big difference There is no appeals process for being denied entry. You will not see the inside of the IDC (Immigration detention center) unless you get stupid and violent or threatening.

Refusal of entry can be appealed. See post by Mario2008

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/708606-is-a-blacklist-forwever/page-2#entry7527321

[xray]

At land borders, particularly in this region stamps from neighboring countries are always checked except interestingly, China. China doesn't care about whether you have Lao entry/exit stamps or not if doing a turn-around, they just care about their own stamps! Many such stories reported over on GoKunming.com, which in many ways is the Kunming equivalent of TV but obviously not nearly as extensive or with nearly as many contributors.

However, at airports apart from what I'm reading here there is almost never any question about exit stamps from the previous country. The one poster who mentioned this in Cambodia shocked me to be honest. I have many times entered Cambodia by switching passports (obviously when flying in) and never once was I asked about a stamp from the previous country. Nowadays with a 1-year Cambodian visa extension I obviously have to enter Cambodia on that passport as I'm not going to buy a new visa each time (hence the 1-year extension). However, I may decide to use a different passport to enter and exit Thailand in that case, but only if I'm flying to Cambodia. All recent trips have been overland and as just mentioned, stamps were checked.

"However, at airports apart from what I'm reading here there is almost never any question about exit stamps from the previous country."

Agreed, there is less exit-stamp checking (and questioning) at airports, than there is at land borders. I am half way through my 4th ten-year passport, and in all that amount of traveling, which has been considerable, the times I have been asked about any stamps in my passport at an airport (exit or otherwise) have been few indeed. However, the fact that one is not asked doesn't always mean a check was not made.

It doesn't take an IO long to check a good stamp and most travelers wouldn't be aware of what the IO was looking at or thinking about unless the IO questioned the traveler. In example, take post #122 of this thread, the traveler from the UK who was questioned for 45 minutes because the IO did not believe he had come from the UK. If the UK was a country that put exit stamps in passports, the IO at BKK would have looked for that exit stamp in the passport, seen it and been satisfied in a few seconds, and sent the traveler on his way. The traveler would not have known the IO had even checked for his exit stamp.

Edited July 21, 2014 by xray

[hawker9000]

Surely, experienced IOs are aware that some countries don't apply exit stamps... If no exit stamp or boarding pass, and an IO genuinely doubts that the traveler is telling the truth about their flight origin, can they not simply query the airline? (And in MUCH less than 45mins...)

[xray]

Surely, experienced IOs are aware that some countries don't apply exit stamps... If no exit stamp or boarding pass, and an IO genuinely doubts that the traveler is telling the truth about their flight origin, can they not simply query the airline? (And in MUCH less than 45mins...)

You would think so. But then again, I would also expect passports reported stolen a year previously to be identified when going through immigration, etc., and we now know it can be otherwise. In any event, holding on to your boarding pass looks like a good idea. I’m sure minutes go by slowly when you are being interogated.

Though not specifically about S. E. Asia, this article is interesting and shows how the way immigration keeps track of people is changing. This seems to be happening at places all over the world. I wouldn’t mind having my fingerprints scanned, but I don’t want anyone using a laser to scan my eyes.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/uae-traveller-alert-be-sure-to-check-if-you-need-an-exit-stamp-2014-02-20-1.538815

“UAE citizens and residents, in addition to tourists, are able to enter and exit the UAE with a single swipe through the e-Gate facilities at airports. But there may be some cases when this might not be ideal. Some countries require to see a physical exit stamp of the UAE before you may cross into their borders, warns Colonel Khalid Nasser Al Razouqi, Assistant Director-General of e-Service at Dubai’s Naturalisation and Residency Department.

When entering or exiting the country in the traditional way, a stamp in the passport provides proof of this. On the contrary, when using the e-Gate, no paperwork is involved, and the passport remains as it is. In the UAE, the travel data of the person is documented in the system. When the person wants to leave the country by land borders after entering through the e-Gate, there is no problem as the information is available at all border points, Al Razouqi said. But when exiting the country through e-Gate and entering another country, the destination country will not have this data and may not accept the explanation that the person exited through the e-Gate. It is, therefore, important the traveller double-check if an exit-empty passport page will be accepted in the destination country, he adds.”

[davidstipek]

I was threatened with detention when doing this at a land border, and they refused to use my almost empty legit passport and insisted on only letting me in, with the passport with the exit chop of the neighboring country.

You can't do a passport swap at a border crossing which you learned about the hard way, They do check for entry and departure stamps for the other country to be sure you didn't just turn around and come back without entering the other country.

Thing is, I wasn't trying to hide it, I was trying to get from a full passport, to a nearly empty one, so I had pages to have a visa extension put in.. The denial of using the legal second passport had no grounds, and simply meant I had to go book an out in flight simply for the purpose of flipping passport.

If you legally have 2 passports.. And ones full, it's pretty petty to refuse to move over to an empty one !!

I just went to US Embassy and they gave me a letter directed to Immigration, asking them to transfer Visa and all pertianant info to my new Passport. Done in 15 minutes and was on my way...

[stament]

Surely, experienced IOs are aware that some countries don't apply exit stamps... If no exit stamp or boarding pass, and an IO genuinely doubts that the traveler is telling the truth about their flight origin, can they not simply query the airline? (And in MUCH less than 45mins...)

Who said anything about them being efficient? Anyhow ever since that I've always kept the seat stub in my pocket rather than leaving it in the plane seat pocket! At one point I honestly thought they might refuse me passage and send me back!

[xray]

I had lots of stamps in my old passports. The term used most by immigration is out/in which to me would mean same day. They will not go by the number of stamps you have total.

It will be the most recent ones to see if you are using exempt entries to live here. A few days would be 2 or 3 in my opinion.

I think if the OP had flown into Bangkok he would not of had a problem.

"It will be the most recent ones to see if you are using exempt entries to live here."

I hope that is the case. I will test this in a few days, when I try to fly into BKK from LA via Seoul. My passport is loaded with 15 and 30 day waivers, back-to-back reentry the same day, as well as at least a couple of tourist visas. I have been out of Thailand for just over two months now, and all I want to do is get to India, for which I have a ten-year tourist visa. Need to buy my ticket to India in Bangkok, but have my return ticket BKK-LA (set for January). I bought this ticket before the start of this 'crack down'. If I had known, I would have gone through KL or even directly to India. I really have never been anything but a tourist - never worked in Thailand and never intend to. If Korean Air offers to reroute me to KL instead of BKK, I will do it; I plan on asking them about it. Will try to post on how I do.

Entered Thailand at Suvarnabhumi yesterday without any problems or questions asked, from Los Angeles via Seoul. My last in/out border run was at Padang Besar and they were 15 day waivers (before the switch back to 30 days for the G7s was made). In the last 180 days I only had one 30 day waiver, but 4 waivers in the last 12 months. My passport (five years into it at this point) is loaded with waivers, many back-to-back. The IO yesterday did not look at my passport long enough to have made any calculations; I don't know what was on his computer screen for me. He did ask if I had a visa, but I believe that was only to know if he needed to go looking for it in my passport. I asked him in Thai if he had given me 30 days, he just smiled and said Krup Pom. Hopefully, I will experience the same when I return to Thailand from India in a few months.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Gosh guys. I have a passport with 40 pages of in and outs from Thailand to Poipet and back. I entered Thailand from poipet after being there 15 days. I have never had a Thai visa and I have been going in and out for the past 8 years, since the 2006 coup. Don't you remember what the military did then? They change the immigration rules then also. In October 2006 after 15 days in Thailand I had to stay out a minimum 15 days where as before I could go out to Poipet and turnaround the next hour and return and get another 15 days in Thailand. Bare with me... Since November 1st 2014 American passport holders got 30 days in from any entry. Until the coup I went in and out of Thailand every 30 days from November 1 St to April 1st staying out only hours. When I left Thailand April 27th I stayed out 15 days in Poipet. May 12th I re-entered Thailand without incident but another guy a head of me was sent packing because he only stayed out 3 days. We had chatted, while waiting in a 2 hour queue of returning Cambodians, and he was concerned if they would allow him back with a short stay out. So, in my opinion, you need to stay out a minimum 15 days. It's the same song as in 2006. A tourist can stay out two weeks every month but most employed foreigners can not.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Typo:Since November 1st 2013 American passport holders...

[evanpenn]

I go to Thailand every year on a 60 day double entry visa, which works out to six months with the two 30-day extensions. The other 6 months I spend in America.

I have been doing this for 8 years or so, my passport has numerous visas. Will I still be able to go to the border after three months, or do I need to take a flight in and out now? If I can go to the border (Laos or Cambodia), do I have to enter and stay a while, or can I go in and out the same afternoon? I've been reading about this for the past hour and I think I am ok, just want to be sure. I intend to head back in September.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

I go to Thailand every year on a 60 day double entry visa, which works out to six months with the two 30-day extensions. The other 6 months I spend in America.

I have been doing this for 8 years or so, my passport has numerous visas. Will I still be able to go to the border after three months, or do I need to take a flight in and out now? If I can go to the border (Laos or Cambodia), do I have to enter and stay a while, or can I go in and out the same afternoon? I've been reading about this for the past hour and I think I am ok, just want to be sure. I intend to head back in September.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

At the end of your last 60 you will have to stay out 15 days, in my opinion, because what the junta is doing is cleaning house of the people who are abusing tourist visa to work or live in the Kingdom. Normally, this is a Jack Golf type visa run or a self visa run where people stay for a short time out then return immediately. Immediately, to immigration, is returning before 15 days. Returning before that will get you an interview and if the immigration office believes you are working in Thailand then you will not be permitted entry. To them a short turnaround means you trying to get back to the salt mine or your Thai wife.

[paz]

At the end of your last 60 you will have to stay out 15 days, in my opinion, because what the junta is doing is cleaning house of the people who are abusing tourist visa to work or live in the Kingdom. Normally, this is a Jack Golf type visa run or a self visa run where people stay for a short time out then return immediately. Immediately, to immigration, is returning before 15 days. Returning before that will get you an interview and if the immigration office believes you are working in Thailand then you will not be permitted entry. To them a short turnaround means you trying to get back to the salt mine or your Thai wife.

Your opinion is not backed by report. No problem with back-to-back visa

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/746042-my-trip-to-vientiane-laos-double-entry-tourist-visa/

[Phatcharanan]

Multiply this by hundreds of times on International flights landing at Swampy... coming soon. And 99% of those denied will not have a second passport. Fireworks ... when being totally denied after flying 16,000 kilometers. !!!!

I somehow doubt that people doing 'back-to-back' entries are those that fly '16,000 kms' everytime

[evanpenn]

Multiply this by hundreds of times on International flights landing at Swampy... coming soon. And 99% of those denied will not have a second passport. Fireworks ... when being totally denied after flying 16,000 kilometers. !!!!

I somehow doubt that people doing 'back-to-back' entries are those that fly '16,000 kms' everytime

Ok, so there is some disagreement...have to see how it plays out after Aug 12. I guess the worst case scenario is I fly out after 3 months, stay in Hanoi or wherever 15 days, then fly back in. Thanks for the responses.

[moto77]

Seems this 2 passport option might be the new route for off shore workers.

I know that U.K passport holders can get a 2nd U.K passport if needed for work (ie off shore)

This is for travelling whilst one passport might be at an embassy waiting for a visa approval.

Maybe this will be the answer for some ??

A 2nd passport will not help. All immigration has to do is look at their database and they will see your other passport entries. Swapping passports could well put up a bigger red flag.

You can be sure entering on a new passport will result in name and date of birth search for previous entries on another passport and those will part of the record for your new passport.

How would they see the other entries? The passport numbers are not connected and they cannot do it by name--too many John Smiths.

[paz]

How would they see the other entries? The passport numbers are not connected and they cannot do it by name--too many John Smiths.

Try adding date of birth - Bingo.

However they need a good reason to do that. A new passport gives a new fresh look and that's enough in most cases.

Edited July 26, 2014 by paz

[arunsakda]

Will Imm not implement fingerprint scanning shortly, like Japan?

[moto77]

How would they see the other entries? The passport numbers are not connected and they cannot do it by name--too many John Smiths.

Try adding date of birth - Bingo.

However they need a good reason to do that. A new passport gives a new fresh look and that's enough in most cases.

Ha. You know how many John Smiths there are with the same birth date. Sorry, unlikely.

Edited July 27, 2014 by moto77

[paz]

Ha. You know how many John Smiths there are with the same birth date. Sorry, unlikely.

You can call it unlikely, but that is what they do if they want. They also have pictures for each entry / exit.

[Tomtomtom69]

At land borders, particularly in this region stamps from neighboring countries are always checked except interestingly, China. China doesn't care about whether you have Lao entry/exit stamps or not if doing a turn-around, they just care about their own stamps! Many such stories reported over on GoKunming.com, which in many ways is the Kunming equivalent of TV but obviously not nearly as extensive or with nearly as many contributors.

However, at airports apart from what I'm reading here there is almost never any question about exit stamps from the previous country. The one poster who mentioned this in Cambodia shocked me to be honest. I have many times entered Cambodia by switching passports (obviously when flying in) and never once was I asked about a stamp from the previous country. Nowadays with a 1-year Cambodian visa extension I obviously have to enter Cambodia on that passport as I'm not going to buy a new visa each time (hence the 1-year extension). However, I may decide to use a different passport to enter and exit Thailand in that case, but only if I'm flying to Cambodia. All recent trips have been overland and as just mentioned, stamps were checked.

"However, at airports apart from what I'm reading here there is almost never any question about exit stamps from the previous country."

Agreed, there is less exit-stamp checking (and questioning) at airports, than there is at land borders. I am half way through my 4th ten-year passport, and in all that amount of traveling, which has been considerable, the times I have been asked about any stamps in my passport at an airport (exit or otherwise) have been few indeed. However, the fact that one is not asked doesn't always mean a check was not made.

It doesn't take an IO long to check a good stamp and most travelers wouldn't be aware of what the IO was looking at or thinking about unless the IO questioned the traveler. In example, take post #122 of this thread, the traveler from the UK who was questioned for 45 minutes because the IO did not believe he had come from the UK. If the UK was a country that put exit stamps in passports, the IO at BKK would have looked for that exit stamp in the passport, seen it and been satisfied in a few seconds, and sent the traveler on his way. The traveler would not have known the IO had even checked for his exit stamp.

Checking for physical stamps is old fashioned. Some countries don't even stamp travelers passports anymore (such as Hong Kong) so Thai immigration or Cambodian immigration or any other country still living in the 80s with their old rubber stamps are not going to be able to do anything in those cases other than being able to ask for a boarding pass stub or something. In the case of Australia, I have noticed inconsistent stamping practices for foreign nationals, who should get stamps in their passports (except NZers). For example, my Thai fiance went to Australia last year - she got an entry stamp, but I couldn't find any exit stamp, probably because the IO forgot to stamp her passport upon her exiting. What would happen in such a case? I think given that Bangkok is a major connecting airport, in the case of that individual who got questioned as he arrived in Cambodia he should have just stated he came from Australia, the UK or wherever where they don't stamp your passport. I think that particular Cambodian IO had not idea what he was talking about and shouldn't have even requested that.