Semi-confused Newbie

[boink]

I'll start by saying I am just beginning to educate myself about Buddhism, after 3 visits to Thailand with another upcoming. I just finished reading "What the Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula, which was very interesting and informative.

Here's the thing... when I'm in Thailand I see what looks almost like idol worship, the way Buddha statues and figures are so completely revered and worshipped. And yet from everything I've learned so far, Buddism has no "god" and the Buddha was not and never claimed to be anything other than an enlightened human.

And the ritualitic activites at temples, including praying for things wanted or giving thanks for things received - as well as the various "good luck" activites - where do these fit in to the religion and how?

Is there a book someone could recommend that might help me understand some of these things more? When I ask my Thai friends, they don't seem eager to talk in-depth about exactly what all of this means and why it's done ("for good luck!" is usually the extent of it), so I don't want to press them and seem rude - better to find out for myself.

I certainly hope this doesn't offend anyone. It is a serious question and something I'm really eager to learn more about.

[lost_in_space]

there's a book called "understanding thai buddhism", by m.l. jomsai, available in bookstores. it's not a critcal analysis, but an exposition of many of the ideas thais hold.

ethnic buddhists have a different frame of reference to buddhism from those of us who came to it late. it's like thais are basically animists with a buddhist veneer.

[longway]

When I have been reading about buddhism I have found stuff about revering statues of the buddha, or it being bad karma to start making a buddha statue and then not complete it. its something to do with the belief a buddha will 'inhabit' a buddha statue. there are also references to buddhist hells, various types of ghosts and spirits that you could become if you commit bad karma.

some of the ways of making merit seems very ritualised, as you would expect from an organised religion over 2500 years old, and as the prev. poster mentioned most thais are prob not that interested in buddhism but like the comfort they can draw from attending a wat and making offerings and hoping for 'good luck'. their home grown animistic beliefs seem like they have become part of thai buddhism.

[chownah]

What is genuine Buddhism is a tough questoin and probably has no clear answer.......is it what most Buddhists do?......is it what most Buddhist monks do?.....is it what people who study the scriptures and like to philosopohize about them do?....maybe its all of these....maybe none of them.

Who is to say?

[sabaijai]

I'll start by saying I am just beginning to educate myself about Buddhism, after 3 visits to Thailand with another upcoming. I just finished reading "What the Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula, which was very interesting and informative.

Here's the thing... when I'm in Thailand I see what looks almost like idol worship, the way Buddha statues and figures are so completely revered and worshipped. And yet from everything I've learned so far, Buddism has no "god" and the Buddha was not and never claimed to be anything other than an enlightened human.

And the ritualitic activites at temples, including praying for things wanted or giving thanks for things received - as well as the various "good luck" activites - where do these fit in to the religion and how?

Is there a book someone could recommend that might help me understand some of these things more? When I ask my Thai friends, they don't seem eager to talk in-depth about exactly what all of this means and why it's done ("for good luck!" is usually the extent of it), so I don't want to press them and seem rude - better to find out for myself.

I certainly hope this doesn't offend anyone. It is a serious question and something I'm really eager to learn more about.

For those sorts of questions and issues, the best book I've seen is Buddhism Explained by Phra Khantipalo. Despite the title it's specific to Thai Buddhism. It has been through several printings and publishers but I'm sure you'll find it somewhere. The author does go into the 'idol worship' etc.

[Sheryl]

Don't confuse the cultural practices that have grown up around the organized religion of Buddhism with essential Buddhist teaching.

After all -- do the following really relate to the esssential teachings of Christinaity:

trees in the house with tinsel on them

the Easter Bunny

egg rolling contests and chocolates

Santa Claus

the exchange of material gifts

plum pudding

Plastic dashboard Virgin Marys

etc etc?????

Very little, obviously, but (maybe with the exception of the last) they are cherished cultural traditions that have been interwoven with the Christian religion in countries where Christianity has beene established as an organized religion for a long time.

I think of the various Thai practices you mention as being along the same lines.

People not raised with an orgnized religion or in a coun try where it predominates but coming to it a a later age out of genuine intreest frequently go deeper into the actual teachings than those raised with it, and also tend to not adapt the "trimmings". I doubt that an Asian adapting Christianity would start teaching their kids about the Easter Bunny, for example. Why should they? It's not part of their ethnic heritage and not really a part of the religion, just a cultural trapping that accumulated over time.

[suegha]

Don't confuse the cultural practices that have grown up around the organized religion of Buddhism with essential Buddhist teaching.

After all -- do the following really relate to the esssential teachings of Christinaity:

trees in the house with tinsel on them

the Easter Bunny

egg rolling contests and chocolates

Santa Claus

the exchange of material gifts

plum pudding

Plastic dashboard Virgin Marys

etc etc?????

Good point, none of the above have anything to do with Christianity. They all have some sort of history, but nothing to do with what the bible actually teaches. The country where a religion gets established will adopt its old 'pagan' (pagan with a small 'p') practices. I suppose some are not too bad unless they contradict the scriptural teaching. Which of course, many do.

[boink]

Thanks for the recommendations and insights. I'm back in Chiang Mai now and will head over to Geckos to see if they have these books. I think learning more both about Buddhism and Thai culture will sort of go hand in hand for me.

[chownah]

Many/ most Theravada Buddhists (This is the school of Buddhism found in Thailand) believe that the essential Buddhist teachings should only be the concern of monks. If you are of the view that what constitutes "proper" Buddhist belief is determined by the majority of Buddhists, then in Thailand it would be "proper" to believe that laypeople need not concern themselves with the Scriptures.

Who is to say what is "proper" in this regard?

I think that the Buddha taught that we should be concerned with our own path and not contend with others about the path they are following.

[sabaijai]

I just picked up a copy of Buddhism Explained, which is now being published in its 6th edition by Thailand's own Silkworm Books. The author is now identified as Laurence-Khantipalo Mills (Phra Khantipalo has left the monkhood). The content remains the same as when it was 1st published 30 years ago, for the most part.

[richardb]

it's like thais are basically animists with a buddhist veneer.

Spot on

Buddhism is a path to enlightenment but whilst on earth Thais take care of the day to day issues with ritual and such like to curry favour with various spirits and use amulets budah images as protection.

The two are really quite seperate

Richard

Edited August 1, 2006 by richardb

[Austhaied]

I'll start by saying I am just beginning to educate myself about Buddhism, after 3 visits to Thailand with another upcoming. I just finished reading "What the Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula, which was very interesting and informative.

Here's the thing... when I'm in Thailand I see what looks almost like idol worship, the way Buddha statues and figures are so completely revered and worshipped. And yet from everything I've learned so far, Buddism has no "god" and the Buddha was not and never claimed to be anything other than an enlightened human.

And the ritualitic activites at temples, including praying for things wanted or giving thanks for things received - as well as the various "good luck" activites - where do these fit in to the religion and how?

Is there a book someone could recommend that might help me understand some of these things more? When I ask my Thai friends, they don't seem eager to talk in-depth about exactly what all of this means and why it's done ("for good luck!" is usually the extent of it), so I don't want to press them and seem rude - better to find out for myself.

I certainly hope this doesn't offend anyone. It is a serious question and something I'm really eager to learn more about.

The 3 books worth reading that will (should) answer your questions are Phra Farang (An English Monk in Thailand), Good morning Buddha by the same author (Phra Peter Pannapadipo). And "The Handbook for Mankind" by Buddhadassa Bhikkhu... Essential reading...(Maybe)..

[phibunmike]

it's like thais are basically animists with a buddhist veneer.

Spot on

Buddhism is a path to enlightenment but whilst on earth Thais take care of the day to day issues with ritual and such like to curry favour with various spirits and use amulets budah images as protection.

The two are really quite seperate

Richard

Yes.

When a religion is introduced to a community that has an existing set of beliefs, those attempting to introduce it would fail if they completely dismissed pre-existing beliefs and practices. Which is why early Christians adopted a pagan festival and re-named it "Christmas", and why Thai Buddhists have spirit houses.

IMHO.