Halal processed food taking over our supermarkets...

[sustento]

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as halal and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of halal labels and halal certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

In my home country some schools no longer serve pork for the kids. As it is too costly to have both pork and beef served together - according to the schools.

So obviously the need to cater to muslim kids means denying the local kids pork, which is an ingredient in quite a few national dishes.

So they offend all the Hindus by serving only beef?

[monkeycountry]

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as halal and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of halal labels and halal certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

In my home country some schools no longer serve pork for the kids. As it is too costly to have both pork and beef served together - according to the schools.

So obviously the need to cater to muslim kids means denying the local kids pork, which is an ingredient in quite a few national dishes.

So they offend all the Hindus by serving only beef?

I don't think there are any hindus. If there are they have never mentioned anything, at least not publicly. Perhaps they have just made an effort to blend in? Or perhaps they are not as easy to offend? These are free public schools btw, so the parents cannot just choose another school, as the next one may be too far away and private schools are too expensive for most parents. Edited July 22, 2014 by monkeycountry

[monkeycountry]

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-17960.html

A discussion thread of Muslims in Australia, verifying the in-availability of Halal meat. Take it from the horse's mouth. There is no contradiction. Although as a major producer of Halal meat, it is not abundant on our shelves.

Here is the full article link

http://halaladvocates.net/site/our-resources/australia/

As to your comment about blonde hair and blue eyes, now that's just racist, and in that case I would love to personally burn your passport myself!

Oz

I'm not the one putting the word Aussie in inverted commas, to imply that they aren't really.

As for links, I can play that game too...

http://www.beefcentral.com/trade/australian-beef-as-halal-as-it-gets-middle-eastern-reporters-discover/

This isn't some small specialist market these days, especially as a huge bulk of our meat actually heads to the ME.

In certain countries in europe many muslims state themselves that they consider themselves arabs/muslims first and nationals of whatever country they live in second. This despite having a passport from that country. If that is the same in Australia, then yes, I would consider them less Australian than the blue eyed aussie, who sees himself as aussie first, and everything else second.

In case I had a Thai passport, which I could probably get by putting in some cash and a serious effort, I will still not consider myself Thai, and for that same reason I don't expect anyone else to either.

[samran]

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-17960.html

A discussion thread of Muslims in Australia, verifying the in-availability of Halal meat. Take it from the horse's mouth. There is no contradiction. Although as a major producer of Halal meat, it is not abundant on our shelves.

Here is the full article link

http://halaladvocates.net/site/our-resources/australia/

As to your comment about blonde hair and blue eyes, now that's just racist, and in that case I would love to personally burn your passport myself!

Oz

I'm not the one putting the word Aussie in inverted commas, to imply that they aren't really.

As for links, I can play that game too...

http://www.beefcentral.com/trade/australian-beef-as-halal-as-it-gets-middle-eastern-reporters-discover/

This isn't some small specialist market these days, especially as a huge bulk of our meat actually heads to the ME.

In certain countries in europe many muslims state themselves that they consider themselves arabs/muslims first and nationals of whatever country they live in second. This despite having a passport from that country. If that is the same in Australia, then yes, I would consider them less Australian than the blue eyed aussie, who sees himself as aussie first, and everything else second.

In case I had a Thai passport, which I could probably get by putting in some cash and a serious effort, I will still not consider myself Thai, and for that same reason I don't expect anyone else to either.

Gotcha. A bit like Catholics really, who have a spiritual leader who is a non elected leader of a small religious state on the otherside of the world whom they take orders from on some issues which affect national public policy.

Yep, got it.

FYI I'm a non blond haired blue eyed Australian who also happens to be a Thai passport holder. Hate it how people question my allegiances simply based on my looks.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited July 22, 2014 by samran

[ozsamurai]

I'm sorry you have a chip on your shoulder Samran, but that really isn't the issue here is it, a personal gripe. It is a broader definition of acceptance of religion and its influx on the rights of others. As has been mentioned here, it is definitely seeming that it is a one way street. I would be just as critical and have been of the christian right. If you have time to look up and watch a doco, I recommend watching 'Jesus Camp'. I would be writing the same of them. Tolerance is a 2 way street.

Oz

[laolover88]

Is Halal meat etc. cheaper? If it is, there's your answer. Not much sign of ISIS taking over That Phanom and Mukdahan!

[AYJAYDEE]

so why do you think they are doing this?? are they taking a loss just to p*ss off the christians?

[Kudel]

dont understand the point really; so what?

for jews in thailand it helps cause no pork, and the slaughter is similar (for observant jews its a no go , but for those like my son who just dont eat pork or shellfish, its fine)...

i ate in halal food venues in ayuthaya; so what?

half the stuff americans buy also has a K FOR KOSHER on it and they dont notice... for those that it is important to them, they notice, otherwise, who cares.

funnily enough, the arab guys (muslems all) who work with us att he hotel are all religious (not fanatic, just religious) filled their suitcase up with instant soups and stuff from here (kosher, not halal, but same same) cause they didnt trust any food in thaialnd at all (dog, cat tiger, they are pretty ignorant about it all); when i suggested that they go to halal restaraunts, they didnt even know there are muslems in thailand or halal food.

i was the one to search and find info for them.

when we go out on worker fun days, its all kosher to encompass all the 'no eating pork' contigency and also the jewish side of the 'not mixing meat and milk' as there is one group of muslems in one village who do not mix milk and meat either (they cant explain why, maybe they had jewish family members as well who knows)...

so if i come from our little 'war torn' country and dont care about halal in stores, why shoudl you?

"so if i come from our little 'war torn' country and dont care about halal in stores, why shoudl you?"

I'm really sorry that your friends and family are living in a war torn area. I read your other post about incoming rockets. I'm sorry.

About the Halai food, I just watched some videos of animals being killed. I've never seen such cruelty to animals and I refuse to support that with my money, and I refuse to eat that meat.

If I and the men I grew up around on a large cattle ranch caught someone doing that....

Nevermind.

same same mc donalds .........

[i claudius]

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as halal and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of halal labels and halal certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

In my home country some schools no longer serve pork for the kids. As it is too costly to have both pork and beef served together - according to the schools.

So obviously the need to cater to muslim kids means denying the local kids pork, which is an ingredient in quite a few national dishes.

So they offend all the Hindus by serving only beef?

I don't think there are any hindus. If there are they have never mentioned anything, at least not publicly. Perhaps they have just made an effort to blend in? Or perhaps they are not as easy to offend? These are free public schools btw, so the parents cannot just choose another school, as the next one may be too far away and private schools are too expensive for most parents.

In my old home town in the UK Hindus just lived among the locals while muslems alwaus kept to themselves and very rarely mixed ,no matter what anyone says they are a section of the population apart and very rarely mix ,we to most of them are just "Kafirs" and they are quick to demonstrate against anything we do against them ,but rarely complain atthe strocities one section of their people perpertrate against the other section or against other religions.

[monkeycountry]

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-17960.html

A discussion thread of Muslims in Australia, verifying the in-availability of Halal meat. Take it from the horse's mouth. There is no contradiction. Although as a major producer of Halal meat, it is not abundant on our shelves.

Here is the full article link

http://halaladvocates.net/site/our-resources/australia/

As to your comment about blonde hair and blue eyes, now that's just racist, and in that case I would love to personally burn your passport myself!

Oz

I'm not the one putting the word Aussie in inverted commas, to imply that they aren't really.

As for links, I can play that game too...

http://www.beefcentral.com/trade/australian-beef-as-halal-as-it-gets-middle-eastern-reporters-discover/

This isn't some small specialist market these days, especially as a huge bulk of our meat actually heads to the ME.

In certain countries in europe many muslims state themselves that they consider themselves arabs/muslims first and nationals of whatever country they live in second. This despite having a passport from that country. If that is the same in Australia, then yes, I would consider them less Australian than the blue eyed aussie, who sees himself as aussie first, and everything else second.

In case I had a Thai passport, which I could probably get by putting in some cash and a serious effort, I will still not consider myself Thai, and for that same reason I don't expect anyone else to either.

Gotcha. A bit like Catholics really, who have a spiritual leader who is a non elected leader of a small religious state on the otherside of the world whom they take orders from on some issues which affect national public policy.

Yep, got it.

FYI I'm a non blond haired blue eyed Australian who also happens to be a Thai passport holder. Hate it how people question my allegiances simply based on my looks.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Maybe I am a bit slow, but I did not get your point if you had one, sorry.

Anyway, while I am sure lots of people are judged based on their looks, I was referring to muslims who say themselves where their allegiance lies, hence no judgement. I assume it is ok to believe what they say.

Edited July 22, 2014 by monkeycountry

[AYJAYDEE]

Maybe I am a bit slow, but I did not get your point if you had one, sorry.

Anyway, while I am sure lots of people are judged based on their looks, I was referring to muslims who say themselves where their allegiance lies, hence no judgement. I assume it is ok to believe what they say.

there are plenty of christians who will tell you their first allegiance is to god rather than their government or country.

[AYJAYDEE]

Maybe I am a bit slow, but I did not get your point if you had one, sorry.

Anyway, while I am sure lots of people are judged based on their looks, I was referring to muslims who say themselves where their allegiance lies, hence no judgement. I assume it is ok to believe what they say.

there are plenty of christians who will tell you their first allegiance is to god rather than their government or country.

[monkeycountry]

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as halal and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of halal labels and halal certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

In my home country some schools no longer serve pork for the kids. As it is too costly to have both pork and beef served together - according to the schools.

So obviously the need to cater to muslim kids means denying the local kids pork, which is an ingredient in quite a few national dishes.

So they offend all the Hindus by serving only beef?

I don't think there are any hindus. If there are they have never mentioned anything, at least not publicly. Perhaps they have just made an effort to blend in? Or perhaps they are not as easy to offend? These are free public schools btw, so the parents cannot just choose another school, as the next one may be too far away and private schools are too expensive for most parents.

In my old home town in the UK Hindus just lived among the locals while muslems alwaus kept to themselves and very rarely mixed ,no matter what anyone says they are a section of the population apart and very rarely mix ,we to most of them are just "Kafirs" and they are quick to demonstrate against anything we do against them ,but rarely complain atthe strocities one section of their people perpertrate against the other section or against other religions.

Recently in my home country muslims managed to get a majority of votes on the board of some ghetto/condo complexes. Some of the first things they did was to get rid of the annual xmas tree in the court yard, despite the "native" members previously having voted for spending much more on the yearly ramadan festivities.

They also abolished the otherwise popular pool/dart room as beer was sold there.

Same thing happened shortly after in a local football club. The new board decided that beer and hotdogs, which most spectators enjoy during matches and players/families enjoy after training, would no longer be sold.

In all cases the muslims argue, quite correctly, that they have gained a democratic majority and are just playing by the rules.

Keep in mind that most of the money that pay for these condos, ghettos and the football club are tax payer money and that most of the muslims are not tax payers.

Edited July 22, 2014 by monkeycountry

[samran]

Maybe I am a bit slow, but I did not get your point if you had one, sorry.

Anyway, while I am sure lots of people are judged based on their looks, I was referring to muslims who say themselves where their allegiance lies, hence no judgement. I assume it is ok to believe what they say.

there are plenty of christians who will tell you their first allegiance is to god rather than their government or country.

Hey but that us okay, cause they are generally white.

Which country has their motto 'In God We Trust' put on their money... United States of something. Someone remind me...

[rgs2001uk]

Is Halal meat etc. cheaper? If it is, there's your answer. Not much sign of ISIS taking over That Phanom and Mukdahan!

I was in a Tesco Express in the UK last year with the mrs, she went off to but some frozen chicken.

She came to meet me a few minutes later bitching about the cost of chicken in the UK, whats wrong I asked, the mrs held a halal chicken in her hands that was double the price of non halal chicken.

The halal chicken went back in the freezer and good old farang chicken at half the price was placed in the trolley, problem solved.

Personally I think its all a racket.

For the record I dont like halal beef, no blood.

For Samran, where to buy decent camel steaks in Bkk?

[ATF]

Hey but that us okay, cause they are generally white.

Which country has their motto 'In God We Trust' put on their money... United States of something. Someone remind me...

Khun Samran I am very surprised at you making such a statement. Not only is most of South America Catholic but at least half of Africa is Christian.

If you are Muslim I can understand your stance but Westerners are in no way racist to Thai people regardless of their skin color.

There can be only one God even Mohamed proclaimed Jesus was one of his disciples.

[rgs2001uk]

Hey but that us okay, cause they are generally white.

Which country has their motto 'In God We Trust' put on their money... United States of something. Someone remind me...

Khun Samran I am very surprised at you making such a statement. Not only is most of South America Catholic but at least half of Africa is Christian.

If you are Muslim I can understand your stance but Westerners are in no way racist to Thai people regardless of their skin color.

There can be only one God even Mohamed proclaimed Jesus was one of his disciples.

Best you tell that to the sectarian Malays with their racist Bummi laws.

Didnt they tell us recently only Muslims are allowed to use the word Allah to refer to God.

Kinda funny really seeing as the Malays native language aint Arabic, probably got special dispensation, would be interested to know what word they used for God before they were taught Arabic, and is the word previously used now haram?

[monkeycountry]

Maybe I am a bit slow, but I did not get your point if you had one, sorry.

Anyway, while I am sure lots of people are judged based on their looks, I was referring to muslims who say themselves where their allegiance lies, hence no judgement. I assume it is ok to believe what they say.

there are plenty of christians who will tell you their first allegiance is to god rather than their government or country.

Hey but that us okay, cause they are generally white.

Which country has their motto 'In God We Trust' put on their money... United States of something. Someone remind me...

You guys can keep deflecting. At the end of the day, there are very few problems in the world due to someone being catholic,christian, hindu, buddhist or whatever, yet in many if not most countries where muslim minorities exist there are major problems with these muslim minorities. Further, in countries where the majority is muslim, there is quite often civil war as even the different muslim factions cannot live together. I wonder why that is? :-)

If one seems to have the same problem with every person one meets, odds are it is not everyone else that has a problem, but oneself :-)

[ATF]

Best you tell that to the sectarian Malays with their racist Bummi laws.

Didnt they tell us recently only Muslims are allowed to use the word Allah to refer to God.

Kinda funny really seeing as the Malays native language aint Arabic, probably got special dispensation, would be interested to know what word they used for God before they were taught Arabic, and is the word previously used now haram?

You are correct a non Muslim using the word Allah has become a criminal offence in Malaysia.

Getting a pork chop in KL is almost impossible.

And it's a criminal offence to convert to another religion. So much for live and let live. They even kill each other.

[samran]

Maybe I am a bit slow, but I did not get your point if you had one, sorry.

Anyway, while I am sure lots of people are judged based on their looks, I was referring to muslims who say themselves where their allegiance lies, hence no judgement. I assume it is ok to believe what they say.

there are plenty of christians who will tell you their first allegiance is to god rather than their government or country.

Hey but that us okay, cause they are generally white.

Which country has their motto 'In God We Trust' put on their money... United States of something. Someone remind me...

You guys can keep deflecting. At the end of the day, there are very few problems in the world due to someone being catholic,christian, hindu, buddhist or whatever, yet in many if not most countries where muslim minorities exist there are major problems with these muslim minorities. Further, in countries where the majority is muslim, there is quite often civil war as even the different muslim factions cannot live together. I wonder why that is? :-)

If one seems to have the same problem with every person one meets, odds are it is not everyone else that has a problem, but oneself :-)

I think you've ignored roughly 500 years of sectarian violence which plagued Europe since the reformation.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[bina]

food. we are discussing food. im am rather sick of discussing the muslem whatever problem ta the moment. back to halal food.

[rgs2001uk]

food. we are discussing food. im am rather sick of discussing the muslem whatever problem ta the moment. back to halal food.

Ok I will indulge you, please tell me why I as a farang atheist think halal steaks with no blood taste like crap?

[buddy]

The OP doesn't understand business practice.

Nothing to do with Islamificaiton and everything to do with rationalizing product lines.

Halal food will be eaten by all Muslims and the vast majority of non Muslims

Non Halal food will not be eaten by the vast majority of Muslims.

Non Halal food either requires two product lines (double the supply costs) or acceptance of giving up the Muslim portion of the market.

Halal food only lines risk losing the trade of people who object to Halal food on animal welfare grounds and bigots ( a significant proportion of the former will be the latter).

OP. You are on the losing side of market forces.

Halal procured meat is Religious cruelty, pure and simple as in that awful video (i have actually witnessed worse animal suffering due to Halal in the Middle East than the video).

The world has moved on from the stone age and more humane methods exist for killing animals for food.

[ATF]

food. we are discussing food. im am rather sick of discussing the muslem whatever problem ta the moment. back to halal food.

Bina I don't have a problem with Halal food but don't you think it is only fair for people of different religious persuasions or non religious persuasions to be afforded the same courtesy to eat pork or drink alcohol or whatever they like in all countries? Therein lies the conundrum.

[AYJAYDEE]

Maybe I am a bit slow, but I did not get your point if you had one, sorry.

Anyway, while I am sure lots of people are judged based on their looks, I was referring to muslims who say themselves where their allegiance lies, hence no judgement. I assume it is ok to believe what they say.

there are plenty of christians who will tell you their first allegiance is to god rather than their government or country.

Hey but that us okay, cause they are generally white.

Which country has their motto 'In God We Trust' put on their money... United States of something. Someone remind me...

You guys can keep deflecting. At the end of the day, there are very few problems in the world due to someone being catholic,christian, hindu, buddhist or whatever, yet in many if not most countries where muslim minorities exist there are major problems with these muslim minorities. Further, in countries where the majority is muslim, there is quite often civil war as even the different muslim factions cannot live together. I wonder why that is? :-)

If one seems to have the same problem with every person one meets, odds are it is not everyone else that has a problem, but oneself :-)

you seem strangely unaware of northern ireland terrorism, sikh terrorist activity, hindu massacres of muslims, tutsis and hutus, lebanese christian massacres, the stern and irgun gangs etc etc. I wonder why that is?

[monkeycountry]

.

Edited July 22, 2014 by monkeycountry

[monkeycountry]

Maybe I am a bit slow, but I did not get your point if you had one, sorry.

Anyway, while I am sure lots of people are judged based on their looks, I was referring to muslims who say themselves where their allegiance lies, hence no judgement. I assume it is ok to believe what they say.

there are plenty of christians who will tell you their first allegiance is to god rather than their government or country.

Hey but that us okay, cause they are generally white.

Which country has their motto 'In God We Trust' put on their money... United States of something. Someone remind me...

You guys can keep deflecting. At the end of the day, there are very few problems in the world due to someone being catholic,christian, hindu, buddhist or whatever, yet in many if not most countries where muslim minorities exist there are major problems with these muslim minorities. Further, in countries where the majority is muslim, there is quite often civil war as even the different muslim factions cannot live together. I wonder why that is? :-)

If one seems to have the same problem with every person one meets, odds are it is not everyone else that has a problem, but oneself :-)

I think you've ignored roughly 500 years of sectarian violence which plagued Europe since the reformation.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not at all, was just waiting for you to bring it up, as "you guys" always do.

Centuries ago christians were generally not much better than muslims today, and the church would probably be a terrorist organisation by todays standards, but then they evolved, and religion ended up playing a minor role if any at all. Sadly many muslims have yet to evolve and are still stuck in Mohammeds time.

I agree with you though If you took a few million christians from the dark ages and tried to integrate them in the modern world, you would likely be looking at a lot of trouble :-)

[monkeycountry]

Maybe I am a bit slow, but I did not get your point if you had one, sorry.

Anyway, while I am sure lots of people are judged based on their looks, I was referring to muslims who say themselves where their allegiance lies, hence no judgement. I assume it is ok to believe what they say.

there are plenty of christians who will tell you their first allegiance is to god rather than their government or country.

Hey but that us okay, cause they are generally white.

Which country has their motto 'In God We Trust' put on their money... United States of something. Someone remind me...

You guys can keep deflecting. At the end of the day, there are very few problems in the world due to someone being catholic,christian, hindu, buddhist or whatever, yet in many if not most countries where muslim minorities exist there are major problems with these muslim minorities. Further, in countries where the majority is muslim, there is quite often civil war as even the different muslim factions cannot live together. I wonder why that is? :-)

If one seems to have the same problem with every person one meets, odds are it is not everyone else that has a problem, but oneself :-)

you seem strangely unaware of northern ireland terrorism, sikh terrorist activity, hindu massacres of muslims, tutsis and hutus, lebanese christian massacres, the stern and irgun gangs etc etc. I wonder why that is?

No you are right, I did not say other religions were saints, they sometimes cause trouble too. However they are generally minor isolated issues and even if they are all combined they are still insignificant compared with the enormous problems between muslims and the rest of the world.

[monkeycountry]

The OP doesn't understand business practice.

Nothing to do with Islamificaiton and everything to do with rationalizing product lines.

Halal food will be eaten by all Muslims and the vast majority of non Muslims

Non Halal food will not be eaten by the vast majority of Muslims.

Non Halal food either requires two product lines (double the supply costs) or acceptance of giving up the Muslim portion of the market.

Halal food only lines risk losing the trade of people who object to Halal food on animal welfare grounds and bigots ( a significant proportion of the former will be the latter).

OP. You are on the losing side of market forces.

Halal procured meat is Religious cruelty, pure and simple as in that awful video (i have actually witnessed worse animal suffering due to Halal in the Middle East than the video).

The world has moved on from the stone age and more humane methods exist for killing animals for food.

Evidently not everyone has moved on from the stone age :-) Edited July 22, 2014 by monkeycountry

[samran]

The OP doesn't understand business practice.

Nothing to do with Islamificaiton and everything to do with rationalizing product lines.

Halal food will be eaten by all Muslims and the vast majority of non Muslims

Non Halal food will not be eaten by the vast majority of Muslims.

Non Halal food either requires two product lines (double the supply costs) or acceptance of giving up the Muslim portion of the market.

Halal food only lines risk losing the trade of people who object to Halal food on animal welfare grounds and bigots ( a significant proportion of the former will be the latter).

OP. You are on the losing side of market forces.

Halal procured meat is Religious cruelty, pure and simple as in that awful video (i have actually witnessed worse animal suffering due to Halal in the Middle East than the video).

The world has moved on from the stone age and more humane methods exist for killing animals for food.

Evidently not everyone has moved on from the stone age :-)

Don't be too harsh. Plenty here on this thread clearly have problems moving on from the attitudes of the 1950s and the dying days of empire.

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