Sinsot refund...Its time all farang say no to this outdated peasant dowry system

[forumuser10]

I suggest this to ALL foreigners, not only us Whiteys ("farang")

[northernjohn]

I did too with my now ex wife but we had to register our marriage at the Amphur otherwise the marriage would not be recognized here. BTW why should we say no to sinsot? It is part of the culture & as we live here should respect that culture. Several years ago one of the country cousins received 100,000 from her prospective husband plus some gold & these people come from the lower end of the socio economic scale. I imagine it is still widely practiced.

There are a lot of posters who are Thai bashers. No respect for the customs. Want every thing like back home where they come from.

Are you calling me a Thai basher?

You don't even know me or my wife or my family you rude pos.

Let me tell you something, back home where I come from, the brides family pay for the wedding, which they didn't.

Sounds like you got sucked in to paying for a custom, that likely you don't fully understand anyway.

Valentine and Northernjohn go on about respecting Thai customs, but what respecting the husband's customs?

If you are not living in Thailand why would you blindly follow this Thai custom? Indeed, as a non-Thai, why would you blindly follow it?

Funny you should mention not living in Thailand. I know I do and that is why I follow the customs of Thailand to the best of my ability. If you have learned nothing on this thread I am not surprised. They have a family value that is fast disappearing as people such as you move in and disagree with it. You then join forces on a forum to share your negative opinion of the customs you have made a conscious choice to live in. Or are you living outside the country and throwing rocks at it. Did you buy some bar girl a house? Is that your reason for being down on the Thai customs. You think that is what they are?

I wonder some times if you people are here because you are not wanted where you come from. It is not the custom to pay a sinsot for a women who has been married and divorced and has children. So it was not an issue with me. I can afford to take part in the custom of the family working together so I do to the best of my ability. I do not rush to a forum to cry big tears when I don't like some thing I just respect them for it. It is their culture and I am not some low life trying to drag it down to what I think it should be. There are more than enough foreigners already doing that you don't need my help. Amazingly enough most of the whiners are concerned about money.

[kennypowers]

I think you don't understand what sin sod is, what it represents, and that it isn't a "peasant dowry".

I've been to about 10 Thai weddings; mostly Thai. All had Sin Sod except one. That one was a Thai marrying a foreigner. The lady didn't want a sin sod.

[macca3248]

I was asked for sin sot by brother so I told him to get @#$% and walked away from the lot of them ...

Plenty more fish in the sea !

[oldsailor35]

If you had to buy your wife, you should have gone to Pattaya, probably got cheaper deal.

[JAFO]

Each to their own.

I married my wife outside of Thailand so that confused them.

Same here. We decided to get married outside Thailand for a host of reasons but not to avoid sinsot.

Like the OP said, I personally respect the cultural history but I am not sure how I feel about it just being banished for the sake of foreigners. Typical westerner behavior though, "I do not like it therefore I am just not going to do it" mentality.

The passing of a daughter off to be married is a significant moment in a families life. It is a big deal like in any western country. I am not sure why foreigners always take a huge exception to the process. I have never heard of a Thai man ever arguing it and I have been to 6 or 7 Thai weddings. Most always get back a huge portion of it anyway especially if the woman is from a well off family. With that said one thing I do find a bit disturbing though is how much I hear foreigners pay yet you go to a Thai wedding that sinsot cost is far lower. Sadly it tells me that some Thais see an opportunity to exploit a foreigner for more. In many ways though I feel many foreigners deserve the inflated sinsot. They flash big money around to impress folks, buy high ticket items, always saying stuff like "its only 1,000 baht or 5,000 baht no problem". They set the table for their own grief. To some Thais 1,000 and 5,000 baht is big money. There is a lesson in being humble IMHO.

[oldsailor35]

According to my GF if a lady has been married before, or has had children, then family not entitled to Sin sot..............She i not a virgin so no value.

[nickcar]

To be honest I paid sin sot....only to find out later you don't pay it for wifes 2nd marriage..go on tell me I am stupid...was only wise after the event...stupid me.

Not true. In all the villages i know you will pay sinsot no matter how many times she has been married it will reduce though:). I know a man who left his wife for 2 years 'twice' and had to pay sinsot again both times he returned to her.

[kandi]

You've made a fatal error. Would've been better to ask for return of half of the dowry. What you did is show them you have little respect for their customs and zilch for them as parents who spent half a lifetime preparing the woman you chose as wife. Doesn't say much for you either, but, hey, that's the western minset set in proverbial rebellion and water tight self-righteousness. Good luck. You're gonna need it later, especually in a coutry you just insulted.

Bullshit. "Preparing" a woman? You mean sending them to the Walking Street to earn the money to satisfy dad's cock fighting debt? Okay, that was a bit harsh, I apologize. But why should I drop the mindset I consider as right and that fits my beliefs only because I live here?

Women who marry a foreigner should pay the exact same amount of respect towards their foreign partner's culture as he does (or is supposed to). Intercultural relationships are not a one-way road.

[thaibook]

My understanding for sin sots is they are only paid to the parents if your wife is a virgin. So that rules out just about everybody When the subject was mentioned by my future wife I simply pointed that under Thai culture sin sots are not generally paid if the lady has been married before or has children and as she was divorced that was the last ever mention of it - but as the Thai saying goes 'visiting farangs leave their brains at the airport'.

Sin sot is not a peasant practice. It may be more overt in peasant milieus, though. In Europe until a generation or two ago it was common for the woman to bring a dowry.

When I married we agreed, through my taokeay, on an amount but that this be used to buy my wife a diamond ring - effectively an engagement ring as the wedding was on an auspicious day some months later. It seemed an admirable blending of cultures with everyone gaining face.

[BrooklynNY]

It is not Sin Sot that is the problem...it is Sin Ros

Sin Sot provides a way for your in-laws to get their hands on your money.

Sin Ros provides the way for your wife to annex your fortu

There is no Sin Ros

Sin Som Ros สินสมรส is assets and earnings of both husband and wife after marriage would be split in half if divorced.

Some marriage couples would stash away his/her assets or savings during their marriage.

Edited July 20, 2014 by BrooklynNY

[arthurwait]

I've seen her surgery on suk soi 7/1.

[CharlieH]

A post was removed for using ALL CAPS,please, as a matter of netiquette do not use this method as it is considered shouting and is inappropriate.

[mrfaroukh]

At last come across an intelligent farang

[CharlieH]

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[Grindting]

I think you don't understand what sin sod is, what it represents, and that it isn't a "peasant dowry".

I've been to about 10 Thai weddings; mostly Thai. All had Sin Sod except one. That one was a Thai marrying a foreigner. The lady didn't want a sin sod.

Maybe so, some Thai men are paying sinsot..so what!??!

You'll find a lot of these farangs do know what sinsot really is, they still disagree with it due to their personal circumstances which have not been considered by the greedy inlaws

The point here about most foreigners hating Sinsot is because are the thai men you know doing all of the following?:

- paying all of the wedding and associated expenses himself, with no financial support from anyone else, least of all the girls family?

- already supporting his future wife 100% financially, most likely for a number of years from abroad (I.e sending her A very generous wedge , often more than double or triple the thai average salary for Rent, Food, Travel, Pocket money,

- already paying for the same period of time for the provision of the girls existing kids, if any, and if not then some other financial burden such as college fees or debts??

- paying monthly sums to the inlaws so they can sit on their lazy bums all day and guilt trip their daughter into extracting as much cash as possible as often as possible from her husband to be.. Sums of which these ****kickers could never dream of earning even if they did bother to do a fair days graft.

A lot of these farang are paying ALL of the above, which I suspect the comparative thai man you mentioned would never dare step foot in such a relationship in the first place.

There is no comparison to local Thais more often than not, therefore the farang has a very good right to argue and disagree with yet Another layer of money shelled out ontop of what he's already kindly committed to.. It is simply A Piss Take!

There should be some compromise given the above, but no, these people want to have their cake and gorge on it like the pigs they live amongst. Greedy Thais is what most of the distressed farangs are complaining about when faced with sinsot. A cultural clash?.. What a heap of horse-poopoo

Edited July 20, 2014 by Grindting

[I Like Thai]

What can happen in the village when the Sinsot traditions are abused by outsiders

[BillyBobThai]

Take a $100 bill to the local print shop, and have a 100 copies made of the front of the bill only. Place these face up and tell ma in law that she is welcome to keep them. Everybody's happy until spending time comes around, by then you will be long gone.

[Thaiberius]

You imply she is a doctor and then go on to say this dowry system is a peasant custom. Then you go on to state they want 1 mill sinsot for a doctor? Just as I thought this story couldn't get anymore insane you then go on to say they will refund £10,000 of the sinsot. I doubt you have even even been to Thailand. If the bit about the doctor is true then I can assure you they wouldn't have any time for a farang who can't even come up with a mill baht.

The "Hollywood" farangs who feel as though they have to quality every statement about their tilac having a degree, big car, is a doctor blah, blah, bore bore, blah are living in la-la land.

It doesn't matter whether she is a doctor, dentist, bargirl, hotel receptionist or a som tam seller, the bottom line with Thai's is money and how they get that money is immaterial to them as long as there is money. Being unable to rustle up a million baht will do you no good regarding your social standing.

It sounds to me as though you are ripe for become a another Thai statistic.

[Bender]

I think you don't understand what sin sod is, what it represents, and that it isn't a "peasant dowry".

I've been to about 10 Thai weddings; mostly Thai. All had Sin Sod except one. That one was a Thai marrying a foreigner. The lady didn't want a sin sod.

yeah you forgot to add, out of these 9 weddings, where the thai men did accept to pay a sinsod,

exactly the 9 brides, didnt have children from a previous husband

the 9 brides were getting married for the first time

the 9 brides were worthy the sinsod...

yeah you forgot to add also, out there, there are a huge number of thai couple who live together, but will not get married

because the thai guy can not afford the sin sod....

or maybe you just dont understand thainess

[MichaelJackson]

[flyingsaucersarereal]

Never give a Thai more money then you are willing to lose.

[KhnomKhnom]

I respect the dowry system, of some reasonable amount relative to your ability to pay, because it is a safety check to see if you are serious and if you can take care of their daughter. I would want the same for my daughter.

If one is dealing with Thai HiSo or upper middle class, the situation looks to me more like an international standard, no real dowry. If below that class, I would tell the father to insist on a dowry or tell the man to take a hike. He is joining a FAMILY by Thai standards and by all customs and rights, should help the whole group.

I think in most cases, haggling over dowry poisons later relationships. The woman will never think of you the same and her family will feel her shame and their own. This is not a good way to start a loving relationship.

If what the man wants is a cute domestic and marries to get that, THAT IS ALL HE WILL GET. An shamed servant is not a wife. A foreigner will never CURE Thailand. Either get with the culture program or get your bride somewhere else. You understand NOTHING about Thai culture's family values and operational functions. Sad.

[Grindting]

Well my policy would be that id a pay a sinsot up to the value of what I'd pay for the wedding, and the Inlaws can then pay the wedding in full matching that value (up to the level they are comfortable provided it doesn't exceed my threshold, and should it be under then the sitsot will also reduce accordingly). This is a fair compromise!

If THEY refuse to do that or they can't afford that, then who are they to demand that sort of money from ME?!, and why would I want to marry into THAT family at all?!

If they are not up for that and the woman decided to leave me, good riddance, if she wanted to stick with me we would get married back in my home country where my loving and accepting family would accept her for who she is with no judgements about social status or money, big or small registry office wedding, or in the back of a limo in Vegas.

So happy I don't need to deal with Thais!

[Thaiberius]

I respect the dowry system, of some reasonable amount relative to your ability to pay, because it is a safety check to see if you are serious and if you can take care of their daughter. I would want the same for my daughter.

If one is dealing with Thai HiSo or upper middle class, the situation looks to me more like an international standard, no real dowry. If below that class, I would tell the father to insist on a dowry or tell the man to take a hike. He is joining a FAMILY by Thai standards and by all customs and rights, should help the whole group.

I think in most cases, haggling over dowry poisons later relationships. The woman will never think of you the same and her family will feel her shame and their own. This is not a good way to start a loving relationship.

If what the man wants is a cute domestic and marries to get that, THAT IS ALL HE WILL GET. An shamed servant is not a wife. A foreigner will never CURE Thailand. Either get with the culture program or get your bride somewhere else. You understand NOTHING about Thai culture's family values and operational functions. Sad.

There aren't many Thai/Thai weddings where a sinsot is discussed or even expected. A farang is expected to have money so therefore this rarely used custom is reintroduced. As has been mentioned in hundreds of bars and discussion forums the farang is seen as a source of money. Thai girls gave no shame in sleeping with farangscas long as they satisfy their mothers demands. Their very limited knowledge of the world outside Thailand leads them to even consider means of income.

Anyone ever see a Thai reading a book. Thought so.

[slipperylobster]

I respect the dowry system, of some reasonable amount relative to your ability to pay, because it is a safety check to see if you are serious and if you can take care of their daughter. I would want the same for my daughter.

If one is dealing with Thai HiSo or upper middle class, the situation looks to me more like an international standard, no real dowry. If below that class, I would tell the father to insist on a dowry or tell the man to take a hike. He is joining a FAMILY by Thai standards and by all customs and rights, should help the whole group.

I think in most cases, haggling over dowry poisons later relationships. The woman will never think of you the same and her family will feel her shame and their own. This is not a good way to start a loving relationship.

If what the man wants is a cute domestic and marries to get that, THAT IS ALL HE WILL GET. An shamed servant is not a wife. A foreigner will never CURE Thailand. Either get with the culture program or get your bride somewhere else. You understand NOTHING about Thai culture's family values and operational functions. Sad.

Not when it is used to scam farangs out of money. Look around at all the fish hooks on the Dating Websites. Please do note that these sites warn about these scams....they work for your sympathy or beckon to your ignorance on their customs...to grab at the wallet. They all have a disclaimer about sending money. Read it.

Do not...do not...send money or pay these huge pre-marriage settlements.

Do what most of the locals do....which is shack up/have a baby and worry about things later. It is not always about culture...

Life....live it.... Do not become a victim

Edited July 20, 2014 by slipperylobster

[Thaiberius]

Never give a Thai more money then you are willing to lose.

Add to this emotion and intellect and you have a full house.

[Nowisee]

Home owner ship is overrated.

Marriage is overrated.

Customs are overrated.

I'm keeping it simple: No sin sot; no marriage; no commitments; no promises; no home; no land; no car;

When the time comes to move on, simply move on.

Knowledge in knowing that nothing lasts forever and if it does, it's usually painful.

Meeting is only the beginning of separation

[MichaelJackson]

There aren't many Thai/Thai weddings where a sinsot is discussed or even expected. A farang is expected to have money so therefore this rarely used custom is reintroduced. As has been mentioned in hundreds of bars and discussion forums the farang is seen as a source of money. Thai girls gave no shame in sleeping with farangscas long as they satisfy their mothers demands. Their very limited knowledge of the world outside Thailand leads them to even consider means of income.

Anyone ever see a Thai reading a book. Thought so.

What an absolute pile of Sh*t. Never read so much ill informed nonsense.

Oh and that part of your nonsense "mentioned in hundreds of bars" just about sums up the credibility !

Edited July 20, 2014 by MichaelJackson

[Nebula]

And for all the foreigners that are more Thai than the Thais... why nobody commented the post where it says that the young Thais are for abolishing of this custom? None of you have read this post? None of you was informed about these discussions in Pantip? Why would they tell you , right? So what then, tell these younger people to go home to their country? Not this time!

To insult and attack the others who disagree with this is quite low. And that one, talking how if you dont have a million you shudnt .... blah blah...who are you mister millionaire to decide or tell? A doctor wont have time for a foreigner who wont be able to shell 1 million? Arent they people with hearts?

And to the fun , has anybody heard the song where its sang about the man who wants to marry a girl, but dont have the money for the sinsot. So he keeps working and asking wait for me, wait for me, 1 more year, 2 more years. And later when he s rich and can pay, he says its ok, I dont want you anymore. ( nice luktung song)