Gaza and Israel suffer deadliest day

[Pralaad]

 

 

Why do you people bother to make this stuff up? It is easily refuted. For the millionth time 'Semites" refers to anyone who speaks a Semitic language. It has nothing to do with biology. Plenty of people are Jews who don't practice the religion or believe in it. It is an ethnic group.  

 

Looking at all the new "Warriors" i would have to guess some old ones making new accounts,hard to believe so many different people would keep on posting same rubbish over and over again

 

 

Well stop posting then.

 

 

I was aware of your problems understanding what was written, now you have just confirmed it

[dexterm]

 

How low can Israel go?

 

Israeli tanks have shelled a hospital in the central Gaza Strip, killing at least five people and wounding at least another 50.

According to early reports the third floor of the al-Aqsa Hospital in Deir al-Balah had been hit by at least three tank shells on Monday.

 

The interesting thing is Netanyahu's spokesperson Mark Regev's knee jerk propaganda reaction..

 

"You are allowed to hit targets where their [Hamas] war machine is using to hide rockets."

"I have no doubt Hamas uses, has used and continues to use, hospitals … we do not target civilians," Regev said.

 

"But I am not aware of this specific situation."

 

 

 

How low can Hamas go by hiding rockets in the hospital? while hiding in the tunnels like rats?

 

By the way if Israel really shelled the hospital, there would be more than 5 dead

 

 

You'd better get up to speed with the news then..

 

Mark Regev beat you to it with the pretext propaganda line...he skipped the usual outright denial routine.

 

Gaza conflict: Five dead at hospital hit by Israeli strike

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28399292

 

Israel-Gaza conflict: Tanks 'shell Gaza hospital' killing four and wounding 30 medical staff, as seven more Israeli soldiers die

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-tanks-shell-gaza-hospital-killing-four-and-wounding-30-medical-staff-as-seven-more-israeli-soldiers-die-9619055.html

[englishoak]

 

Simple1 post # 96

 

From time to time some of us make errors by using unresearched sources, this is an instance of such error of judgement based on lack of research motives and bias of the source.

 

 

 

 

 

Note the article  concerning the matter you dispute  which was published in a British newspaper at the time.

 

Perhaps you should check this worlds modern history too. so as the facts you quote  are  truthful not distorted by  those with an interest in matters.

 

Links provided below

 

http://guardian.150m.com/jews/jews-declare-war.htm

 

http://guardian.150m.com/jews/jews-declare-war.htm

 

 

Special note to mods. 

 

This is I believe very much a relevant post, This is in no way supposed to be viewed as Anti Semitic. It is just facts and history with a few conclusions. it is intended to show the correlation and hypocrisy that Israel has shown by both becoming a victim of persecution ( as a race ) and persecuting another people as it is currently.

 

Indeed and Israel should not forget they have been willing to deal with literally anyone to gain and secure their state, and by any means, They should understand more than anyone the need of a  place for people to call their own. 

 

Daily Express full front page here http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Judea-declares-war-on-germany.jpg

 

 The attempted boycott and economic war declaration ( call it what it was ) was in response to the anti-Semitic actions by Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler. Three days after the headline was published, a meeting of representatives of British Jews, the Jewish Board of Deputies, denied that there was a boycott against Germany. There was no need to lie, it was true then as it is true now. There are many other examples of the declaration of economic war/boycott in many news archives around the world.

 

​The boycott, war or not was real and well documented... it would be considered certainly economic war by many and in Germany a country that had very recently been decimated by largely Jewish controlled banking and finance there was also a big disproportion of influential business and entertainment/ media  owned by a certain minority, the declaration was certainly not helpful. There is no point denying it both happened and further increased tensions and helped further the Nazi Anti Semite propaganda and ultimately tragically gave it more credence. 

 

There was no intention of including Palestine in the following plans and brokered solution even then if it could be helped. It also shows the disregard for fellow Jews outside the Zionist ideal by further stirring up a hornets nest as much as it has showed a disregard for Palestinians right to exist ever since on a similar level. 

 

The idea at the time was for a state of Israel long before what happened in the real war, it was also supported by Germany and was brokered by Zionists seeking a Jewish state. This is fact not fiction or a conspiracy theory. 

 

I assume people are aware of the scheme set up by both Germany and Jewish Zionists for repatriation of Jews wishing to relocate to what was then Palestine The Haavara Agreementhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

 

More indepth here in details and references http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html

 

Many of those leaving did not get value for their assets its true, its also true they did in fact often get a poor deal  from other German Jews that saw an opportunity and decided to stay and effectively ( naturally ? ) some took advantage of their fellows. Being the community it has always been the first point of call would nearly always be to sell within the community to another Jew before going outside it. This is well documented in numerous forms and very easy to verify.

 

In spite of the basic hostility between the Hitler regime and international Jewry, for several years in the 30's Jewish Zionist and German National Socialist interests coincided. In collaborating with the Zionists for a mutually desirable and humane solution to a complex problem, the Third Reich was willing to make extensive foreign exchange and effort, impair relations with Britain and anger the Arabs. 

 

Fact, during the 1930s no nation did more to substantively further Jewish-Zionist goals than Hitler's Germany. Ironic isnt it ? 

 

The point is Palestine was already being groomed and earmarked for a takeover, even before that, no one asked or bothered to consider what that would mean to those currently there and that cost is felt by both peoples there to this day.

 

Palestinians  must have their own country again and Israel needs to accept and broker that just as it was willing to negotiate its own aim with even Nazi Germany, it certainly wasn't about trust there but an overriding wish for a home. 

 

It was willing to deal with one devil so to speak and it must do so again as much for its own benefit and security as it must for Palestinians. 

 

Footnote: Morch by all means pm me and I shall try to explain what a megalomaniac Zionist is and the way the word itself has been hijacked subverted and twisted to mean by all sides and factions in many quarters, as you say and I agree, it can now mean many different things.

 

Unfortunately here is not the place to go into it, there are far too many hot heads about at both extremes. 

Edited July 22, 2014 by englishoak

[daveAustin]

To be honest I don't care for either side; perhaps they'll wipe each other out and give the rest of the world some peace.

[Pralaad]

 

How low can Israel go?
 
Israeli tanks have shelled a hospital in the central Gaza Strip, killing at least five people and wounding at least another 50.
According to early reports the third floor of the al-Aqsa Hospital in Deir al-Balah had been hit by at least three tank shells on Monday.
 
The interesting thing is Netanyahu's spokesperson Mark Regev's knee jerk propaganda reaction..
 
"You are allowed to hit targets where their [Hamas] war machine is using to hide rockets."
"I have no doubt Hamas uses, has used and continues to use, hospitals we do not target civilians," Regev said.
 
"But I am not aware of this specific situation."
 
 

 
How low can Hamas go by hiding rockets in the hospital? while hiding in the tunnels like rats?
 
By the way if Israel really shelled the hospital, there would be more than 5 dead
 

 
You'd better get up to speed with the news then..
 
Mark Regev beat you to it with the pretext propaganda line...he skipped the usual outright denial routine.
  Gaza conflict: Five dead at hospital hit by Israeli strike
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28399292
 
Israel-Gaza conflict: Tanks 'shell Gaza hospital' killing four and wounding 30 medical staff, as seven more Israeli soldiers die
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-tanks-shell-gaza-hospital-killing-four-and-wounding-30-medical-staff-as-seven-more-israeli-soldiers-die-9619055.html

Must have been a pretty small shell to kill 5 ,

Usually 1 shell takes down the entire building, but in this case hardly any damage.

But to analyze this, one needs the basic logic and capability's

[Pralaad]

 
All info in previous posts above..possibly deleted. Do your own research.

Why should I? You post utter and total rubbish and I should search for it?

Answer the simple question, who fired the first shot 6 October 1973 Edited July 22, 2014 by Pralaad

[Ulysses G.]

Israel has always fired the first shot from 1967 onwards.

There has only been one major war since 1967 and it was a sneak attack by the Arabs. How could Israel have possibly "fired the first shot"? In the real world, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who was the Air Force commander in 1973, said he personally flew a fighter jet and attacked an Israeli communications base. The future President of Egypt fired the first shot. 

Please keep entertaining us with the stupidity that you find on those nutty websites that you so kindly provided a link to.  

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/10322814/Mubarak-fired-the-first-shots-of-the-Yom-Kippur-war.html

[dexterm]

25 Israeli soldiers now dead who might be alive today had not Netanyahu started this reckless round of violence.

 

Just a popularity stunt to win the next election. The man's a war criminal.

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts have been deleted.   Many more should be, but have been allowed to remain.   Please stay on topic.  

[dexterm]

 

Israel has always fired the first shot from 1967 onwards.

There has only been one major war since 1967 and it was a sneak attack by the Arabs. How could Israel have possibly "fired the first shot"? In the real world, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who was the Air Force commander in 1973, said he personally flew a fighter jet and attacked an Israeli communications base. The future President of Egypt fired the first shot. 

Please keep entertaining us with the stupidity that you find on those nutty websites that you so kindly provided a link to.  

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/10322814/Mubarak-fired-the-first-shots-of-the-Yom-Kippur-war.html

 

 

That was addressed in my posts above. Read them.

[Johpa]

I don't think Israel's withdrawal from Gaza was an altruistic land-for-peace deal, because at the same time and ever since they have been expanding colonies in the far bigger West Bank. They left Gaza because it was too costly in lives and $$.

 

I disgaree. The Israelis retreated from agricultural lands that were easily defended, forcibly removing the settlers. They had already withdrawn from Gaza City and yes, that earlier withdrawal may have been due to the high cost of occupation.  I agree wholeheartedly that the continuation of the expansion of the settlements in the West Bank is a travesty and should continue to be condemned by one and all.  I would urge Israel to forcibly remove the settlers from Hebron just as they once removed the settlers for Gaza if, for nothing else, as a token of good will and as a first step to get the peace process moving again.  As the more powerful of the two camps, it behooves the Israelis to take that first step.  But the current issue does not involve the West Bank or the Palestinian Authority, who are also at odds with Hamas.  The other day one could clearly hear the frustration in the voice of Saeb Erakat, spokesperson for Abbas, on CNN when Hamas failed to honor the first negotiated ceasefire.

 

By the way, I know he has grown a bit long in the tooth, but Wolf Blitzer on CNN does have good contacts in the Levant on both sides of the conflict.

[Ulysses G.]

Special note to mods. 
 
This is I believe very much a relevant post, [size=4]This is in no way supposed to be viewed as Anti Semitic.[/size]

Maybe you missed this the first time. It IS anti-Semitic and is from an anti-Semitic source, no matter how some want to pretend otherwise. Please stop spamming us with this anti-Semitic, conspiracy theory crap.
 

To put even more context to this, the article posted comes from "The Barnes Review":
 
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/barnes-review
 
 

Founded by Willis Carto in 1994, The Barnes Review (TBR) is one of the most virulent anti-Semitic organizations around. Its flagship journal, [/size]The Barnes Review, and its website, Barnesreview.org, are dedicated to historical revisionism and Holocaust denial.
...[/size]
amed after Harry Elmer Barnes, a prominent 20th-century anti-Semite and Holocaust denier, The Barnes Review was created by Willis Carto, who also founded the extreme right-wing Liberty Lobby and the Institute for Historical Review (IHR), another Holocaust denial organization. Carto created The Barnes Review as a rival to IHR after he was forced out by the IHR's leadership in 1993 for financial mismanagement. 
Claiming that its mission is to "tell the whole about history," TBR really practices an extremist form of revisionist history that includes defending the Nazi regime, denying the Holocaust, discounting the evils of slavery, and promoting white nationalism. The Barnes Review magazine has published articles entitled "Adolf Hitler An Overlooked Candidate for the Nobel Prize?", "Treblinka Was No Death Camp", "Is There a Negro Race?", "Reconquista': The Mexican Plan to Take the Southwest", and "David Duke: An Awakening." The Barnes Review, like most of the radical-right institutions started by Willis Carto over the decades, also gives voice to any number of wild conspiracy theories. TBR's website puts it like this to its readers: "Many intelligent Americans still believe Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack.' It was not. ... Many still believe Columbus (or Leif Ericsson) was first to America. He was not. ... Or what about proof that there was federal foreknowledge and complicity in the OKC bombing? There was. We can't even begin to discuss here the many questions that have never been answered about 9-11. The list of historical lies and distortions goes on and on and on. . ."

[dexterm]

 

I don't think Israel's withdrawal from Gaza was an altruistic land-for-peace deal, because at the same time and ever since they have been expanding colonies in the far bigger West Bank. They left Gaza because it was too costly in lives and $$.

 

I disgaree. The Israelis retreated from agricultural lands that were easily defended, forcibly removing the settlers. They had already withdrawn from Gaza City and yes, that earlier withdrawal may have been due to the high cost of occupation.  I agree wholeheartedly that the continuation of the expansion of the settlements in the West Bank is a travesty and should continue to be condemned by one and all.  I would urge Israel to forcibly remove the settlers from Hebron just as they once removed the settlers for Gaza if, for nothing else, as a token of good will and as a first step to get the peace process moving again.  As the more powerful of the two camps, it behooves the Israelis to take that first step.  But the current issue does not involve the West Bank or the Palestinian Authority, who are also at odds with Hamas.  The other day one could clearly hear the frustration in the voice of Saeb Erakat, spokesperson for Abbas, on CNN when Hamas failed to honor the first negotiated ceasefire.

 

By the way, I know he has grown a bit long in the tooth, but Wolf Blitzer on CNN does have good contacts in the Levant on both sides of the conflict.

 

 

I didn't see the Erakat interview...my Sophon cable TV not working ...  and I'm not sure what you mean by "first negotiated settlement"

 

If it was the Israel/Egyptian proposal they perhaps should have consulted Hamas first rather than just announce it unilaterally in the media with conditions they knew were impossible for Hamas with no Israeli concessions other than a ceasefire.

[englishoak]

 

Special note to mods. 
 
This is I believe very much a relevant post, This is in no way supposed to be viewed as Anti Semitic.

Maybe you missed this the first time. It IS anti-Semitic and is from an anti-Semitic source, no matter how some want to pretend otherwise. Please stop spamming us with this anti-Semitic, conspiracy theory crap.
 

To put even more context to this, the article posted comes from "The Barnes Review":
 
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/barnes-review
 
 

Founded by Willis Carto in 1994, The Barnes Review (TBR) is one of the most virulent anti-Semitic organizations around. Its flagship journal, [/size]The Barnes Review, and its website, Barnesreview.org, are dedicated to historical revisionism and Holocaust denial.
...[/size]
amed after Harry Elmer Barnes, a prominent 20th-century anti-Semite and Holocaust denier, The Barnes Review was created by Willis Carto, who also founded the extreme right-wing Liberty Lobby and the Institute for Historical Review (IHR), another Holocaust denial organization. Carto created The Barnes Review as a rival to IHR after he was forced out by the IHR's leadership in 1993 for financial mismanagement. 
Claiming that its mission is to "tell the whole about history," TBR really practices an extremist form of revisionist history that includes defending the Nazi regime, denying the Holocaust, discounting the evils of slavery, and promoting white nationalism. The Barnes Review magazine has published articles entitled "Adolf Hitler An Overlooked Candidate for the Nobel Prize?", "Treblinka Was No Death Camp", "Is There a Negro Race?", "Reconquista': The Mexican Plan to Take the Southwest", and "David Duke: An Awakening." The Barnes Review, like most of the radical-right institutions started by Willis Carto over the decades, also gives voice to any number of wild conspiracy theories. TBR's website puts it like this to its readers: "Many intelligent Americans still believe Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack.' It was not. ... Many still believe Columbus (or Leif Ericsson) was first to America. He was not. ... Or what about proof that there was federal foreknowledge and complicity in the OKC bombing? There was. We can't even begin to discuss here the many questions that have never been answered about 9-11. The list of historical lies and distortions goes on and on and on. . ."

 

 

 

Sorry but it  not anti Semitic and i take real exception as a historian to the term being used as a  cop out and refusal to accept historic facts   

[Pralaad]

25 Israeli soldiers now dead who might be alive today had not Netanyahu started this reckless round of violence.
 
Just a popularity stunt to win the next election. The man's a war criminal.

Thousands of Israeli might be dead by now , had not IDF started protective edge.

Hundreds of Palestinians might be alive now , had Hamas not started firing rockets, hiding weapons in civilian locations ,forcing civilians to be human shields .

Israel is not Palestinian problem , Hamas is.

[Pralaad]

Englishhoak, would you care to share your credentials as a historian ?

[englishoak]

Sorry guys but im not playing into your childish attempts at baiting, im not interested.  You'll just have to accept historic facts exist that might be uncomfortable to you... I can assure you British history is full of very uncomfortable truths but I deny none of it and its pointless doing so, it wont change the facts. 

 

I suggest you go away and find a way to deal with the uncomfortable and bad parts as well as the good and heroic, like we all have to. 

 

Have a good day. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry guys but im not playing into your childish attempts at baiting, im not interested.  

 

You claim to be a "historian" while calling well-known, discredited, anti-Semitic propaganda "facts" and expecting us to believe it. How is it baiting to ask you to share your "credentials" as a "historian"?

Edited July 22, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[kblaze]

 

 

Lies.

 

I read exactly what you are referring to, and it wasn't a "directive to the press", it was (supposedly...) a recommendation to what Hamas supporters should do to further its propaganda.

 

This is what you are talking about...it's hardly an unbiased source given that Alan Dershowitz, Ehud Barak, and many other Pro-Israel supporters are members of its board of advisors...

 

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/8076.htma

 

What kind of lala land do you live in where you think the BBC and New York Times and co. are going to be just happily taking orders from Hamas?

 

 

I don't know about Memri's version, but something of the sort was on a few Palestinian government Facebook pages a few days ago. And there are similar emails doing the rounds, although can't say whether they are genuine or copies or what.  Guess it can be checked via electronicintifada if one was really interested, then again, they could just as probably be the source...

 

 

 

 

"Don't know" about Memri's version?  There is no "version". The report talking about a directive at activists was published by Memri. They cited the facebook pages of Hamas. I linked it above. That's the end of the story. 

[englishoak]

 

Sorry guys but im not playing into your childish attempts at baiting, im not interested.  

 

You claim to be a "historian" while calling well-known, discredited, anti-Semitic propaganda "facts" and expecting us to believe it. How is it baiting to ask you to share your "credentials" as a "historian"?

 

 

I have been nothing but polite and im not doing this with you.  I do not believe you are entitled to my CV. im not about to show personal documents on a forum anyway so why ask when you know its not going to be provable no matter what I say or claim ? this is what is called misdirection and a pointless one at that.

 

Historian, look it up then look up my profile and you will get as much info  as I wish to convey on this forum. 

 

History that is verifiable and documented just IS. I'm sorry if that upsets you and it wasnt my intent but it was intended to make you and people think.

 

I suggest you stop trying to pick a fight with me because I wont engage in it, ive long since learned from debating on forums  most cannot deal with historical embarrassments or things they would personally rather hadn't have happened. It remains history nevertheless but the good thing is, its not the present.

 

Perhaps the only way to deal with history in the present is to learn from its past .... that is partly what it is there for after all and why some study it. 

 

I hope Israel and some day Palestine can find a way to live together, in harmony and this senseless killing of both sides stops.   

 

Now can we please get back on topic ? 

 

thanks  

Edited July 22, 2014 by englishoak

[kblaze]

 

I sincerely struggle to understand the attitude of non-Jewish supporters of Israel. It is as clear as day that Isreal is trying to expand and committing crimes and atrocities to do it. The apologists that cite "thousands of rockets" refuse to acknowledge that the rockets, aside from inflicting relatively little damage (relative to the damage Israeli weapons inflict on Gaza), are coming from freedom fighters fighting an aggressive occupier.

The Palestinians are the underdogs, brutally suppressed by Israel and unfairly treated by the West. If it was a different indigenous people invaded by a different occupier/settler, the UN would be doing something. But the Zionist lobby and the Zionist propaganda machine keeps certain UN members (mainly the US and Russia, and that's more than enough veto) off the subject of Israel's crimes.

 

 

Israel is simply attempting to survive in the face of an implacable enemy dedicated to the destruction of their nation-state.  There is no occupation of Gaza as the Israelis retreated from Gaza in a forlorn attempt in a land-for-peace deal that of course failed to deliver any peace, although that failure pretty much eviscerated the Israeli "peace movement" of that time.  The Palestinians are indeed perceived as underdogs, but are equally supressed politically by both Israel and Hamas. I agree, they, the Palestinians, are not treated fairly by the West.  Neither the UN, nor the pro-Palestinian groups in the West have said boo regarding the occupation of Tibet by the Han Chinese, the occupation of northern Sri Lanka by Tamils, the lack of self-determination for the Kurds, and the list can go on ad nauseum if you begin to start naming the countless  non-Slavic groups east of the Urals or the entire continent of Africa.  To paraphrase The Bard, thou dost protest too much, methinks.

 

 

"No occupation of Gaza". 

They are certainly INSIDE of Gaza now. They control all the borders, except for those on the Egypt side, they control nearly all the coastal waters, they control what goes into Gaza, they control who can go into Gaza and who cannot. 

 

"Attempting to survive".  

Killing hundreds of civilians, destroying whole neighborhoods, inflicting life-altering injuries on thousands while some of your farmland gets hit by rockets and a couple of your civilians get killed = attempting to survive.

[kblaze]

 

Israel is simply attempting to survive in the face of an implacable enemy dedicated to the destruction of their nation-state. 

...

Yes.

Exactly.

 

In my estimation, Israel now fights not just to clear out the tunnels and rid Gaza of its rockets but for its very existence.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/richard-cohen-a-fight-for-israels-existence/2014/07/21/085af564-10f7-11e4-8936-26932bcfd6ed_story.html

 

 

Clicked on your link, saw that it was an opinion piece by someone with the last name "Cohen" and laughed. Do you want me to start posting opinion pieces from the thousands of Muhammads writing about the conflict? Or shall we do what intelligent adults do and seek UNBIASED sources.

[kblaze]

 

25 Israeli soldiers now dead who might be alive today had not Netanyahu started this reckless round of violence.
 
Just a popularity stunt to win the next election. The man's a war criminal.

Thousands of Israeli might be dead by now , had not IDF started protective edge.

Hundreds of Palestinians might be alive now , had Hamas not started firing rockets, hiding weapons in civilian locations ,forcing civilians to be human shields .

Israel is not Palestinian problem , Hamas is.

 

 

Dear Pralaad. How would there be thousands of Israeli dead by now if they hadn't initiated "Protective" Edge? Rockets? Nope - thanks US for Iron Dome!

Tunnels? lol.

[Pralaad]

 

25 Israeli soldiers now dead who might be alive today had not Netanyahu started this reckless round of violence.
 
Just a popularity stunt to win the next election. The man's a war criminal.

Thousands of Israeli might be dead by now , had not IDF started protective edge.

Hundreds of Palestinians might be alive now , had Hamas not started firing rockets, hiding weapons in civilian locations ,forcing civilians to be human shields .

Israel is not Palestinian problem , Hamas is.
 

 
Dear Pralaad. How would there be thousands of Israeli dead by now if they hadn't initiated "Protective" Edge? Rockets? Nope - thanks US for Iron Dome!
Tunnels? lol.

Iron dome is not some magic . It does not catch each and every rocket. And if you were not aware rockets have landed in tel aviv

[kblaze]

 

 

 

25 Israeli soldiers now dead who might be alive today had not Netanyahu started this reckless round of violence.
 
Just a popularity stunt to win the next election. The man's a war criminal.

Thousands of Israeli might be dead by now , had not IDF started protective edge.

Hundreds of Palestinians might be alive now , had Hamas not started firing rockets, hiding weapons in civilian locations ,forcing civilians to be human shields .

Israel is not Palestinian problem , Hamas is.
 

 
Dear Pralaad. How would there be thousands of Israeli dead by now if they hadn't initiated "Protective" Edge? Rockets? Nope - thanks US for Iron Dome!
Tunnels? lol.

Iron dome is not some magic . It does not catch each and every rocket. And if you were not aware rockets have landed in tel aviv

 

 

Why not just answer the question? You said there might be thousands of Israeli dead right now without "Protective" Edge. How?

[Jingthing]

Clicked on your link, saw that it was an opinion piece by someone with the last name "Cohen" and laughed. Do you want me to start posting opinion pieces from the thousands of Muhammads writing about the conflict? Or shall we do what intelligent adults do and seek UNBIASED sources.

 

It appears this poster has asserted that it is logical to ignore the opinion of any and all Jews on Middle East matters. In my view, that represents a position of irrational bigotry. But not to worry, this policy won't be applied consistently. We will surely continue to see quotes from Jewish critics of Israel posted by those seeking to demonize Israel. In my observations, those seeking to demonize Israel often have a tendency to regard Jews who share their opinions with a bizarre special value. 

 

I would humbly suggest to give Mr. Cohen a read. Even though he's got a Jewish name. It couldn't hurt.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[up-country_sinclair]

25 people from 4 families (including 19 children) gathered to break the Ramadan fast, and they were murdered by Israel.

 

19 children.

 

Justice for these war crimes will come for Israel one day. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/world/middleeast/questions-about-tactics-and-targets-as-civilian-toll-climbs-in-israeli-strikes.html

 

 

[kblaze]

 

Clicked on your link, saw that it was an opinion piece by someone with the last name "Cohen" and laughed. Do you want me to start posting opinion pieces from the thousands of Muhammads writing about the conflict? Or shall we do what intelligent adults do and seek UNBIASED sources.

 

It appears this poster has asserted that it is logical to ignore the opinion of any and all Jews on Middle East matters. In my view, that represents a position of irrational bigotry. But not to worry, this policy won't be applied consistently. We will surely continue to see quotes from Jewish critics of Israel posted by those seeking to demonize Israel. In my observations, those seeking to demonize Israel often have a tendency to regard Jews who share their opinions with a bizarre special value. 

 

I would humbly suggest to give Mr. Cohen a read. Even though he's got a Jewish name. It couldn't hurt.

 

 

I read it and was as I expected.

 

Is it bigotry to believe that OPINION articles written by members of the two sides of the conflict could be biased sources of information about said conflict?

I don't reference opinion articles written by Palestinians on Al Jazeera because the writer would likely have an innate bias.

 

Now do I read Reports by Jewish/Arab journalists? Yes. They could still have bias, but the odds are lower because of the purpose of the writing; reporting (vs. the purpose of opinion pieces; to persuade).

[Seastallion]

 

I sincerely struggle to understand the attitude of non-Jewish supporters of Israel.

It is simple. The Arabs started the conflict in the first place, they started a bunch of wars and lost them and they have acted like savages ever since. Israel are far from perfect, but they are far more on the side of good than their enemies and have far more reason to have done the things they have done. All the Palestinians want to destroy them and all they want is to be left in peace.

I struggle to understand the attitude of those that make lame excuses and justifications for Islamic terrorists that purposely target innocent men, women and children for murder.

 

If Israel wants to be left in peace, stop settlement building and withdraw all it's citizens from all settlements in Palestine. Retreat to the 1967 borders and recognise Palestine as a sovereign state. Very simple. They should also try to resolve Palestinian grievances because there are thousands upon thousands of Palestinians who have lost family members to Israeli aggression.. If they did that and let Palestine alone without blockades or embargoes, with no harassment, and then Hamas did something, I would support proportionate punitive action by Israel.

[Jingthing]

If they did  all that without massive security measures in place, Israel would be putting millions of their citizens lives at risk. Demonizers of Israel oddly seem to suggest that Jews should basically just commit suicide. Been there. Done that. They wouldn't expect that of any other people. Strange indeed. The tyranny of ridiculously high expectations on this one group -- Jews. Yes a first step for Palestinians to move towards peace is that all Palestinian governments need to recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Zionist state and to prove they have given up on unconditional right of return to the land of Israel and also given up on ending Israel. Reason for optimism? No. Not at all. 

 

Speaking of Jews with opinions we are supposed to ignore just because they are Jews, check out the thoughts of iconic New York Jew intelligentsia Woody Allen:

 

 

Jews from New York are a very different brand from the Israelis. What’s your take on the situation in Gaza right now?

More terribleness. Ever since I can remember, when I was 21 years old, they were telling me, “Peace is around the corner between the Arabs and Israelis. The next generation. Right now, there’s a lot of bitterness, but with time, new generations will grow up and be more peaceful with each other.” This would go on and on and on, and in the end, nothing’s changed. This situation remains tragic and terrible, and the leaders in Israel and the leaders in the Arab world have not been able to come to an agreement. It’s a terrible, tragic thing. Innocent lives are lost left and right, and it’s a horrible situation that eventually has to right itself—but I say that without knowing that it will. I hope that it will, but it seems, at this point, that nobody on either side is ready, willing, and able to.

But I feel that the Arabs were not very nice in the beginning, and that was a big problem. The Jews had just come out of a terrible war where they were exterminated by the millions and persecuted all over Europe, and they were given this tiny, tiny piece of land in the desert. If the Arabs had just said, “Look, we know what you guys have been through, take this little piece of land and we’ll all be friends and help you,” and the Jews came in peace, but they didn’t. They werenot nice about it, and it led to problems, and over the years, both sides have made mistakes. There’ve been public relations mistakes, actual mistakes, and it’s been a terrible, terrible cycle of mismanagement and bad faith.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/woody-allen-on-magic-in-the-moonlight-the-crisis-in-gaza-new-york-city-and-those-allegations.html

Edited July 22, 2014 by Jingthing