OPINION: The right kind of long-timer

[Lite Beer]

OPINION: The right kind of long-timer

The Phuket News

A Russian passport. The number of Russian visitors to the Kingdom has been steadily rising in recent years. Photo: MediaPhoto

BANGKOK: -- The nationwide crackdown on “visa-runners” is now firmly in place, and has yielded a wealth of anecdotal feedback. One example is the luckless farang – presumably one of the very first who got caught in the net – who, back in the first week of May, received an unexpected earful from an Immigration official on the Thai-Cambodian border.

As the official flipped contemptuously through page after passport page of triangular Thai departure stamps, he sighed wearily, before launching into a stern lecture.

It ended with the border-crosser – who had been anticipating a 15-minute saunter into Cambodia and back – being told to proceed to the royal Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh. He was also warned that if he simply returned later in the day at the same border-crossing would “be sent to the detention room”.

The days of Thailand being a Nirvana for feckless border-run drifters – as well as other types, some worthy some not – are now a thing of the past.

In recent years, particularity here in Phuket, there has been an increase in crimes committed by foreigners, often in dire financial straits. That kind of visitor with no visible means of support will now find Thailand less “the Land of Smiles” and more the land of “Sort your life out, instead of exporting your problems and yourself here.”

But there is another kind of long-term visitor. The entrepreneurial and/or honestly hard-working kind. So many nations’ economies have benefited from the skills and work ethic of economic migrants – the US, the UK and, closer to home, Singapore and Hong Kong, come to mind – that perhaps the time has come for the Thai government to bring about positive change for them.

The bureaucracy facing foreigners who wish to work here is more onerous than those of most other nations in the region, and other middle-income nations in general.

But skilled foreign manpower (and “womanpower” of course) would benefit the Kingdom economically as well as bringing the kind of diversity that characterises vibrant economies the world over.

As for that wastrel who was collared at the Thai-Cambodian border, we learned that he got a job and a work permit to go with it. Just in the nick of time, he jests, when recounting his turnaround in fortunes.

Thailand has always welcomed foreigners. Now that it has addressed the bottom end of the immigration issue, we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners. This would allow those with marketable skills and services to contribute to the Kingdom.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/opinion-the-right-kind-of-long-timer-47455.php

-- Phuket News 2014-07-22

[TVGerry]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

[ukrules]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

If they want real teachers they will have to pay real salaries.

[terryp]

guess some people are just perfect and contribute unknown quality's to Thailand ...the key word being unknown

I for one welcome the day IMMIGRATION will be actually sorted out and they treat people with respect instead of suspected criminals...it all starts with good day how may i help you ...not what you want ..passport now! ...as happened to me yesterday

[Mudlover]

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

[Lancelot]

In recent years, particularity here in Phuket, there has been an increase in crimes committed by foreigners, often in dire financial straits. That kind of visitor with no visible means of support will now find Thailand less “the Land of Smiles” and more the land of “Sort your life out, instead of exporting your problems and yourself here.

And there have also been crimes committed against foreign expats that the police were not interested in resolving.

Works both ways I'm afraid...

[JLCrab]

What I've read on these topics recently regarding 'The entrepreneurial and/or honestly hard-working kind' is that they are capable of doing anything they need by themselves and why should they have to hire 4 Thais to sit-around and do nothing.,or that they are not taking any jobs away from a Thai person.

Thailand has repeatedly stated the main goal of foreign investment is to provide jobs for young Thai citizens. Regardless of any change in regulation, I would expect that policy to remain the same and that it would also require an attitude change among those (mostly) young foreigners who would like to use Thailand as their base of operations.

[Lammbock]

I been through the progress of open a company, getting a WP and Business Visa in this country all by myself. I can tell you it's not a walk in the park.

How can Thailand be attractive for anyone to start a new life here or expanding your business if you are not a "big investor" or a high skilled engineer hired by an local/international company.

The options are limited. Maybe after all this is really just a holiday destination or retirement place. I don't know...

Edited July 22, 2014 by Lammbock

[zaphod reborn]

The entire work permit process needs to be overhauled. Thailand's AEC neighbors like Malaysia and Singapore have it sorted. Most companies must send their workers out of country to obtain work visas. This is due to a ridiculous invested capital requirement enforced at Chaeng Wattana. No company wants to report anything but minimal invested capital, because it is taxed at a very high rate. At Chaeng Wattana, there is a process for converting tourist or visa on arrivals to Non-B's. However, because the immigration officers are looking for a handout, they try to use the invested capital requirement as an obstacle to conversion. Chaeng Wattana looks at how many work visas the company has been issued, and then the amount of declared invested capital, and then almost always denies conversion.

If you change jobs, you immediately must exit the country (I think the new rule is you have 7 days - how generous!). So, you fly out, go to a neighbor country embassy, and get a new Non-B. What a waste of money and resources!

Probably the most common employment for foreign workers, who are not migrant workers, is teaching. Anything they can do to make the work permit process easier on the schools is probably good. But, there are some foreign workers who really contribute to the Thai economy. Those are the foreign workers who make their companies more profitable, allowing them to grow and hire more Thai workers. Many companies need foreign workers for their expertise. It makes the companies more efficient and more competitive.

Thailand needs to stop biting the hand that feeds it. Clamping down on border runners is ok, but the country really needs to modernize its foreign worker regulations.

[TVGerry]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

If they want real teachers they will have to pay real salaries.

You're right. And by forcing all the faux teachers home, they'll be forced to pay for and get real teachers.

[JLCrab]

Good rant above -- now maybe when you can get people like this to say the same thing you might see some progress:

http://www.jfcct.org

Our mission is to promote trade and foreign investment, encourage skills development and transfer with the overall aim of contributing to the economy in which we live and work and to which we have made our commitments.

We thus do and will continue to propose and recommend positive developments and oppose threats which would undermine in the long term Thailand’s economic development. We draw on the experience and expertise of our members in making our contributions. We see ourselves as champions for the best ways to help make Thailand a leader in being attractive for foreign investment, and in attracting the most valuable kinds of foreign investment.

Edited July 22, 2014 by JLCrab

[CRUNCHER]

The main disadvantaged groups are the under 50 with no Thai wife and no (legal) job. Malaysia increases the financial requirement for the under 50's by about 50%. Of course the financial requirements are higher than Thailand and money has to be left on fixed deposit permanently (with exceptions).

Perhaps Thailand could find some milage in Malaysia's model.

I appreciate that I have over simplified things, but I am considering the general principle.

[scotbeve]

And what of the "comfortably living"expats that have/are contributing to the country's coffers...? To be more succint, those of us that are, indeed, in/out of TH and coming in on a 30 day walk-in visa. Many folks do this and have their homes here already in preparation of retiring here. Perhaps a card could be applied here - NO , not that rubbish Elite card!

[TerryLH]

"...as happened to me yesterday"

Perhaps they've been reading your posts here.

[lostsoul49]

This place will end up like Eastbourne

(The Brits will know what I mean).

Harwich for the continent.... Eastbourne for the incontinent.

[Furryman]

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

Screw that guy. I'm not working, I'm retired at 48, 46 when I got here. I have a mess of in and out stamps under my tourist visas before I switched to ED.

I get cracking down on people who are working illegally, but lumping those of us who have done NOTHING illegal, who simply are not old enough for a retirement visa is stupid.

What a dick.

[Time Traveller]

".....we look forward to a liberalization of business regulation..."

You could be waiting a very long time for that. No where has it been mentioned that this was even being considered by Thai authorities.

[PattayaPhom]

Written by a PC liberal that loves "diversity"...jess I hate that word alng with cohesion, vibrant and numerous others that are spouted off by that brigade. The laws do not need watering down so Thailand becomes cohesive and diverse....they need strengthing so the culture is maintained.

[Soutpeel]

Written by a PC liberal that loves "diversity"...jess I hate that word alng with cohesion, vibrant and numerous others that are spouted off by that brigade. The laws do not need watering down so Thailand becomes cohesive and diverse....they need strengthing so the culture is maintained.

I agree and think there most certainly there needs to be strengthening of the laws related to companies operating financial advice types services, and severe penalties for those caught operating "Boiler room" type "companies" as there is no regulation per se in Thailand about companies offering dodgy advice to people on a commission basis

[ETatBKK]

the Phuket News article is a hypothesis, nothing from the Thai official. we could debate it for pages on our own perspective and in our own advantage, but nothing we could control, nothing we could influence.

until we see some official document, stay cheers !

EDIT : adding on to this, this is a very debatable concept of discriminating people into 'high quality' or else. we are people.

Edited July 22, 2014 by ETatBKK

[Emster23]

I agree with Furryman's view. Love to hear one of those lectures at the border: "You come here many times. Spend money at stores, restaurants, pay rent, pay your 7% VAT. Many Thai people have job here because of scum like you. You not old enough for retire visa? What are you, smart? Retire early? Get out of our paradise. We want Russian tourists (as in Russian passport in photo) come on package paid in Russia, buy food at 7/11. Much better."

Yes there are cheaters, and there are long timers who support local economy during low seasons and coups. I was one before I got my retirement visa. I didn't set up a business (I had neither the need or interest in having a business). I bought one for girlfriend, she employed 8 or 9 Thais. But just looking at my stamps short sighted might think I am some kind of cheat. And they would be wrong.

[TechnikaIII]

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

Yep. Successful criminals are usually loaded. They will always slip through, lubricating their access to the Kingdom with the show of money. Thais love money, worship the goddess of money, and are intoxicated by the sight of it.

[moto77]

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

Sorry that you are offended by reality, but it's the same everywhere when dealing with immigrants.

You want to go to America or Britain or Australia? If you are a PhD, doctor or millionaire the door is open (wide open). PhDs are the one category of immigrant that can sponsor themselves into many countries, including the above.

High school diploma or less, or a BA in an non-marketable field? Please stay home. Thailand is not the first to do this and will not be the last.

Edited July 22, 2014 by moto77

[Tycoon]

The days of Thailand being a Nirvana for feckless border-run drifters – as well as other types, some worthy some not – are now a thing of the past.

​says it beautifully

[jmccarty]

The title is "Opinion" and as someone who was transferred here by my employer, and I would prefer many other places. I find that even before the crack down and this was several years ago. From the start, showing up at the Thai embassy with a checklist from my Thai employer, then being told the stack of paper was not enough, getting more paper and then told my wife also needs to be present, to get the visa. Then still not enough paper. It gave a sour taste of things to come once I moved here. But, since then, our HR people do most everything for us and there is no real hassle except for the expected city traffic, pollution and much of the same other unpleasent 3rd world things about. But my opinion, place is not so bad if you make it work for you.

The end of the long over staying back packer or ferral vagrant? I don't think I will notice, nor will any of my Thai neighbours. It will put a cottage industry of sorts out of business that has been running these "unwanted" back and forth for years. And they will just settle in a more friendly nation, the Bht200-300/night hostel style or just cheap end of tourism will go out of business, but that is of no concern I suppose.

I expect the thinning crowds in what was once bustling Khao San Road and Soi Buakaow will likley improve the traffic, so I will not have to worry about running over another old falang in a Chang singlet. Hate it when my wing mirror gets damaged by those barefoot old drunks!

With the new heavy hand, will it really lose that charm that is the reason so many actually do come here?

Test of Bernoulli's theorem is in the works and my slightly educated guess is that there will still be at least 50% below the standard they are hoping to attract. Anyone care to wager?

[Malthus101]

I certainly agree with the idea of getting all the useless, broke-ass, flip-flop wearing sex-pests out of Thailand and back to a coal mine where they belong.

There should be no one size fits all for allowing folks to stay - good recognizes good - it should be as simple as that.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Malthus101

[synchronise]

As a few have mentioned, you need 4 Thai staff per 1 work permit, plus 2 million paid up capital for each work permit. If you are married you need 2 Thai staff + the 2 million Baht paid up capital. Education work permits may have different requirements.

Before you get the work permit you need a non immigrant B visa (I understand that you may use an O visa - but that rule flip flops), which means various paperwork and a letter from the company which intends to employ you at a min salary and for a job that requires a foreigner (UK 50K/month).

All of this makes it difficult for SMEs (especially service industry) to take on the correct staff, but really do the Chambers or government care about SME's? It seems to be about big business clucking, rather than considering the chicks growing. So do not expect changes soon. Outsource as much as you can to neighbouring countries, or local companies that can do the job under the present constraints.

Whichever way you look at it the days of a tourist visa for long term stayers is over, unless you get hitched.

Side note: I agree with what immigration are doing, but they need to relax the business regulations to allow transfer of knowledge and to make the THAI company (Thai or Foreign owned) more regionally competitive. Everyone wins.

[Tycoon]

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

Screw that guy. I'm not working, I'm retired at 48, 46 when I got here. I have a mess of in and out stamps under my tourist visas before I switched to ED.

I get cracking down on people who are working illegally, but lumping those of us who have done NOTHING illegal, who simply are not old enough for a retirement visa is stupid.

What a dick.

your not a migrant ? so why think you are!!!!! want to live here ??? get the right visa, ignorant to the extreme mate

[manarak]

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

Not offensive at all. You confuse cause and consequence.

Strangely enough, people who work in highly skilled positions also tend to earn more.

[kannot]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

who in their right mind will work for 30k here when they can get much more elsewhere, Thailand gets what its prepared to pay for.