OPINION: The right kind of long-timer

[TVGerry]

Fact of the matter is, a whole lot of foreigners have been taking advantage of this visa run thing for years. These people should ask themselves this. Would their own country allow such an obviously flawed system? Where it allows non tax paying people to work semi legally? No matter how much you think you contribute to the country, does your own country allow this? Or do they deport people?

These comments lead me to think that this poster really hasn't got a handle on the real situation.

Citing another country is tangential to the argument and has no real baring on the problem. He/she is also making nebulous assumptions about the nature of foreigners staying in Thailand and their numbers and demographics.

Unfortunately it IS in fact very difficult to gauge this as the government, whilst firing out loads of dictums, has released very little real info as WHY they are taking these measures and detailing their aims goals or targets.

Oh yes. Thailand is 'special'. Therefore we're not allowed to mention other countries to use as a comparison. It's amusing that some people are so delusional they don't understand that what they've been doing over the years is wrong and the government closed one eye to the problem because they were either too lazy or didn't care. Things change and it had to happen sooner or later. If you're here illegally, it doesn't matter if you have some money or you're contributing to the economy, you're still here illegally. As for tourist visa runs, I will say it again, tourists don't stay for years. That was a loophole which I'm glad they closed.

The why? It's their country. They don't owe anyone an explanation. But personally, the amount of 'teachers' I see here and the number of law abiding Russians in Pattaya makes me cheer their decision. Maybe after the trash return the Putinland, I may actually take a trip there.

[Pattszero]

Dire OP - I guess written by someone of no experience of the business environment in the wider area - and certainly with an excessive conceit of themselves.

The phrase "high quality foreigners," is laughable. I'm a businessman and have been for years - that doesn't reflect on my quality as a person. A woeful, witless and shameful article, written by someone that would be ridiculed down my pub - Hyacinth Bucket lives - and writes for the Phuket Gazette -

http://youtu.be/aKqc_BPXAsM

[LivinLOS]

... long stay tourism based on showing clear inward remittances to the country.

How would they then be able to determine that the source of such inward remittances were from clear outward remittances or remittances earned while working in Thailand?

Set a number of say ... say 10 million in a government bond account for a 10 -30 year extension -- they wouldn't even have to tie up their own money they could just borrow on their line of credit from their banker in Zurich.

First point.. Have you tried to wire large amounts out of Thailand ??

I do however get you issue it could be earnings.. But on the flip side at least they would be targeting the upper end spenders..

As to the second point, if they have a Zurich banker who will front them 10 mil, that in itself is due dilligence of a kind. Tho I think 10 mil baht is pretty light, I mean that's the current number they want remitted to Thailand fir a visa, if they get the right to leave it outside Thailand maybe a mil usd in cash equivalent assets would be more the kind of number I could see them asking. But simply having money does not mean they spend it here, which is what I would think Thailand wants.

I will also add.. I am not stamping my feet or holding my breath, I am merely saying that is an easy simple way, to adapt existing rules, allowing wealthy people who are able to remain perpetual tourists, to continue to import money into the Thai economy. A thing that is desirable for Thailand. The use of immigration law for a labor law problem seems like a clumsy way to solve the issue.

Edited July 24, 2014 by LivinLOS

[DrTuner]

If the guy is married to a Thai the requirmeents are halved, therefore he could employ his wife and a maid and its only cost him THB 1.0 million to set up the company

It's been mentioned here on TVF that this depends on the local offices where you apply for a WP. Some have required the usual 2M/4Thais for married foreigners. Too late for me to dig it up now, but I remember it.

[JLCrab]

A thing that is desirable for Thailand. A military junta ruling Thailand, and maybe even its successor, might very well like to have it explained to them what is desirable for Thailand.

[moto77]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

If they want real teachers they will have to pay real salaries.

man I wish everyone would think before they post or get a crying towel.

This comment is getting soooooooo boring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want UK, Canadian or US wages to teach then please stay in the UK, US or Canada.

Take a look at the cost of living here.

I am sorry but at the minimum of 30k a month a NES is getting paid a hell of a lot more than any other teacher and in most cases doing a lot less.

I am sorry if you can not afford a Ferrari and a 2 bedroom condo on Sukimvit.

life sucks.

Western PhD's here can easily--very easily--net 200k per month. 250k is common. 300k is not unheard of. And some have additional outside work that doubles or triples that.

*Of course I mean REAL PhD's, not the online/mail order variety. And yes they do check...

Edited July 26, 2014 by moto77

[Furryman]

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

Screw that guy. I'm not working, I'm retired at 48, 46 when I got here. I have a mess of in and out stamps under my tourist visas before I switched to ED.

I get cracking down on people who are working illegally, but lumping those of us who have done NOTHING illegal, who simply are not old enough for a retirement visa is stupid.

What a dick.

your not a migrant ? so why think you are!!!!! want to live here ??? get the right visa, ignorant to the extreme mate

Ignorant how? I have been here legally under a proper visa, following the rules as they were at the time. I'm on an ED visa now, going to classes, learning the subject matter. I am doing nothing illegal. Certainly not working.

It gets tiresome hearing people harping on anyone on an ED visa because they assume they must be doing something illegal. Thank goodness I'm only 14 months away from switching to retirement extensions.

[Furryman]

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

Screw that guy. I'm not working, I'm retired at 48, 46 when I got here. I have a mess of in and out stamps under my tourist visas before I switched to ED.

I get cracking down on people who are working illegally, but lumping those of us who have done NOTHING illegal, who simply are not old enough for a retirement visa is stupid.

What a dick.

Dear Furryman,

can you please explain me how is possible to be retried in middle 40ties..... Please, i would like to know.

I got lucky in the internet bubble, and I have some other stuff going on. none of it involves working here in Thailand.

[ColdSingha]

It gets tiresome hearing people harping on anyone on an ED visa because they assume they must be doing something illegal. Thank goodness I'm only 14 months away from switching to retirement extensions.

and then you'll become a fat old sexpat with an 18 year old girlfriend.. gotta love thaivisa

[anon676545345]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

Easier said than done mate. Unfortunately, it's not as black and white as that - not every foreigner who works here is, or aspires to be a teacher. How do you propose freelance programmers, for example, or YouTubers who work alone get a work permit? I'm sure there are many people who work online, and get contracts from abroad, want to work legally and pay taxes, but are simply unable to due to the archaic labour laws which don't have a place in the digital age. What about the jeweller, the designer, the artist, the entrepreneur or any other of the myriad freelance professions that require a currently unobtainable work permit, for whom starting a company (which they can't even fully own), renting an office and employing several Thai staff before they can employ themselves is just not a viable option? I'd love to hear your suggestions.

Here's hoping, as the article suggests, that the immigration laws will swing the other way too, and make it much simpler for these guys. It'll not only benefit them, but Thailand too.

You state this well. This is an obvious difficulty for any modern thinking person under the age of 50 - but most commenters here seem very angry in refusing to recognize possibilities outside of the extremes. One is either a) retired, b ) a corporate desk jocky, c) incredibly wealthy...or d) a shiftless bum / criminal who needs to be thrown out of Thailand immedtiately. There's no talkng to them, as for some reason they are determined to see it this way.

Myself, I'm an artist of some international success, and work online (at home, wherever that is). And while I can usually support myself (some months harder than other, it's normal), I'm not wealthy 'elite' status either, and I don't have millions of baht. That hardly means someone is a criminal. I've never taken (or would take) a job away from a Thai person, and all I do is pay for everything: pay for an apartment, pay the bills, pay the apartment staff and the people all over the neighborhood. That's not a complaint, and I take the responsibility very seriously. I'm not saying my money is 'needed' by Thailand either - but I'm not mooching at all. I never understand how that is called 'taking advantage' the way they repeat here every day. I don't even drink or go to bars, so what's this description of a shiftles, flip flop wearing, bum about? I sit in my apartment and work every day, and go out for about an hour to say say hello to people and buy food. Watch out for the big criminal, huh?

I truly love Thailand, and it's people. But...as you've said, the definitions of employment, and the options presented (retired or super rich), are truly archaic and don't apply to a large percentage of people today. And to compound it, now that the government is casting anyone outside of retirement/expensive options as 'working illegally', and commenters here being so enraged all the time, this adds unnecessary heartache to the equation. I know how hard I work, and I know how much I value the people around me here, and do the right thing. But, I am just a 'criminal' on this board.

It's a sad thing to see people actually deriving enjoyment out of this situation they infest all these threads like a dose of crabs, constantly repeating themselves and stating nothing more than unsubstantiated opinion. It states a lot about the quality of people they are that they live in a beautiful country such as Thailand yet can't find anything else to do with their day than spend it on an internet forum poking fun at those in a situation that generally doesn't concern them, sad individuals.

[nicolas18]

It's a sad thing to see people actually deriving enjoyment out of this situation they infest all these threads like a dose of crabs, constantly repeating themselves and stating nothing more than unsubstantiated opinion. It states a lot about the quality of people they are that they live in a beautiful country such as Thailand yet can't find anything else to do with their day than spend it on an internet forum poking fun at those in a situation that generally doesn't concern them, sad individuals.

Well, Thailand does tend to attract the creme de la creme, as far as foreigners are concerned.

And, yes, that was sarcasm.

[MrWorldwide]

It's a sad thing to see people actually deriving enjoyment out of this situation they infest all these threads like a dose of crabs, constantly repeating themselves and stating nothing more than unsubstantiated opinion. It states a lot about the quality of people they are that they live in a beautiful country such as Thailand yet can't find anything else to do with their day than spend it on an internet forum poking fun at those in a situation that generally doesn't concern them, sad individuals.

Well, Thailand does tend to attract the creme de la creme, as far as foreigners are concerned.

And, yes, that was sarcasm.

Tell me about it. Started an innocent thread about Khao Yai indicating that I was excited to be heading to such a green oasis and got ridiculous replies about leeches, tigers and how much better the country around Chiang Mai was. The mentality of some on this forum is just mind-boggling - if I wanted to go to bloody CM I would get on a plane.

[AYJAYDEE]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

Easier said than done mate. Unfortunately, it's not as black and white as that - not every foreigner who works here is, or aspires to be a teacher. How do you propose freelance programmers, for example, or YouTubers who work alone get a work permit? I'm sure there are many people who work online, and get contracts from abroad, want to work legally and pay taxes, but are simply unable to due to the archaic labour laws which don't have a place in the digital age. What about the jeweller, the designer, the artist, the entrepreneur or any other of the myriad freelance professions that require a currently unobtainable work permit, for whom starting a company (which they can't even fully own), renting an office and employing several Thai staff before they can employ themselves is just not a viable option? I'd love to hear your suggestions.

Here's hoping, as the article suggests, that the immigration laws will swing the other way too, and make it much simpler for these guys. It'll not only benefit them, but Thailand too.

You state this well. This is an obvious difficulty for any modern thinking person under the age of 50 - but most commenters here seem very angry in refusing to recognize possibilities outside of the extremes. One is either a) retired, b ) a corporate desk jocky, c) incredibly wealthy...or d) a shiftless bum / criminal who needs to be thrown out of Thailand immedtiately. There's no talkng to them, as for some reason they are determined to see it this way.

Myself, I'm an artist of some international success, and work online (at home, wherever that is). And while I can usually support myself (some months harder than other, it's normal), I'm not wealthy 'elite' status either, and I don't have millions of baht. That hardly means someone is a criminal. I've never taken (or would take) a job away from a Thai person, and all I do is pay for everything: pay for an apartment, pay the bills, pay the apartment staff and the people all over the neighborhood. That's not a complaint, and I take the responsibility very seriously. I'm not saying my money is 'needed' by Thailand either - but I'm not mooching at all. I never understand how that is called 'taking advantage' the way they repeat here every day. I don't even drink or go to bars, so what's this description of a shiftles, flip flop wearing, bum about? I sit in my apartment and work every day, and go out for about an hour to say say hello to people and buy food. Watch out for the big criminal, huh?

I truly love Thailand, and it's people. But...as you've said, the definitions of employment, and the options presented (retired or super rich), are truly archaic and don't apply to a large percentage of people today. And to compound it, now that the government is casting anyone outside of retirement/expensive options as 'working illegally', and commenters here being so enraged all the time, this adds unnecessary heartache to the equation. I know how hard I work, and I know how much I value the people around me here, and do the right thing. But, I am just a 'criminal' on this board.

The fact is you are breaking the law. If you can get away with it, good on ya. If you can't, dont whine to us.

[steven23]

you can find all basic infos about thai education at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Thailand

Unless you provide with evidence that Boris children will have better future in England then here, you have no right to maliciously criticize Thailand.

[ColdSingha]

Is this forum only for crusty old expats who have nothing to do but give out about everything and everyone.

thaivisa the hub of generalisations

[monk213]

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

Screw that guy. I'm not working, I'm retired at 48, 46 when I got here. I have a mess of in and out stamps under my tourist visas before I switched to ED.

I get cracking down on people who are working illegally, but lumping those of us who have done NOTHING illegal, who simply are not old enough for a retirement visa is stupid.

What a dick.

your not a migrant ? so why think you are!!!!! want to live here ??? get the right visa, ignorant to the extreme mate

Ignorant how? I have been here legally under a proper visa, following the rules as they were at the time. I'm on an ED visa now, going to classes, learning the subject matter. I am doing nothing illegal. Certainly not working.

It gets tiresome hearing people harping on anyone on an ED visa because they assume they must be doing something illegal. Thank goodness I'm only 14 months away from switching to retirement extensions.

I know the feeling. I am mid 20s though and have been here legally nearly 5 years, a few of those on ED. I am not frustrated because I am here illegally or have something to hide, I am frustrated that as usual the powers that be have gone about this in a haphazard manner, nothing is crystal clear, corruption will still shine through and it feels more like a police state than ever.

[Maestro]

Removed some off-topic posts.

[yellowboat]

Look folks.

It's about the cost-benefit equation that we all (implicitly) go through.

Is it worth going through the immigration, work permit, and reporting hassles to be able to stay here?

Most of the successful ex-pat residents have answered that question, and you will hardly ever see them on this Forum.

Those that feel done-hard by Thailand's immigation and Ministry of Labor have a self-defeatist mindset.

Wow, such clarity on a forum rife with bar stool philosophers.

I have had some simple electronics made here and a drone. Sadly there are some great people and wonderful resources here, but as you pointed out, they are not the only resources in the region. By scaring away entrepreneurs, and those who buy from Thailand, it will only benfit the all too willing neighbors. Truth is many successful types left long ago for Viethan, Cambodia or other less challenging place to do business.

I speak Chinese and am heading back to China where things are easier to understand.