Traditional southern-style BBQ

[bigbadthaijohn]

Hi everyone,

I'm a long time Thailand resident, and have tried various BBQ in Bangkok. It has ranged from laughable to fairly decent, but I have always missed the bare-bones, no frills, straight up BBQ joints you get across the southern US.

I am considering running a kickstarter campaign to open a real, down home southern style BBQ and smokehouse here in Bangkok, and would like to guage possible interest.

Concept: bare-bones, comfortable, but extremely casual restaurant and smokehouse. We would serve 3 kinds of barbecue: South Carolina pulled pork (with the unique, tangy mustard-based sauce), Kansas City style beef and pork ribs (a drier style, more about the dry rub, less emphasis on the sauce), and Texas-style ribs and brisket (more emphasis on the sauce, which is a bit sweeter).

All the meat would be cooked in a giant custom-made smoker for 10-15+ hours until it is was fall of the bone tender.

Seating and service: Absolutely nothing fancy. Friendly, unpretentious atmosphere. "Family style" seating, meaning that there would be long picnic tables (some indoor, some outside) which everyone would share. All of the traditional sides (garlic mashed potatoes, collard greens, corn bread, fried okra, etc.) would be free and self-serve. Customers would only pay for meat, drinks and desserts (traditional southern favorites like bread pudding, apple pie, cobbler, sweet potato pie, pecan pie, etc. - all made in-house).

Anyway, I am just trying to see if there would be a demand for some good old, down-home comfort food.

Please vote on the poll and any comments are more than welcome.

BBTJ

[bigbadthaijohn]

thanks for casting your votes so far.

for those who haven't voted yet, it only takes a click or 2. i'm just looking for a little honest feedback.

thanks

BBTJ

[meatboy]

go for it I myself would think it would take off at the right price,pork is or was pretty cheap but getting good beef you need to do some homework.as for side dishes [serve yourself] that could be costly,just observe a thai siting at a table that has a bottle of ketchup on it,NOW YOU SEE IT,NOW YOU DONT.

[bigbadthaijohn]

Thanks for the feedback, meatboy. Point taken about the sides. At the same time, it's a give and take. Some people will eat loads, while others will fill up on meat (I don't plan on doing anything small, including portion size).

About the pork and beef, I ran a restaurant here for the past 2 years, so I have some good contacts for suppliers. Tell you what, I do miss some nice beef ribs, though. I always preferred them over pork because you can take a nice big bite out of them. Takes a bit more skill to do them right though.

Gotta stop. Making myself hungry!!

[meatboy]

Thanks for the feedback, meatboy. Point taken about the sides. At the same time, it's a give and take. Some people will eat loads, while others will fill up on meat (I don't plan on doing anything small, including portion size).

About the pork and beef, I ran a restaurant here for the past 2 years, so I have some good contacts for suppliers. Tell you what, I do miss some nice beef ribs, though. I always preferred them over pork because you can take a nice big bite out of them. Takes a bit more skill to do them right though.

Gotta stop. Making myself hungry!!

I buy my beef from the pon-yang-kham co-op and it is top quality but I was disappointed with their short ribs but everything else is fine.dont forget the garlic mash and the chips.

good luck.

[Langsuan Man]

So far every one of these Southern Style Barbecue places here in Pattaya or Jomtien have gone bust

Hope your feeling lucky

[bigbadthaijohn]

The advantage of opening in BKK over Pattaya is that you are less dependent on the flow of tourists. Also, the number of western restaurants per capita in Pattaya is higher, meaning more competition for far fewer customers. IMHO

[bigbadthaijohn]

Thanks to everyone for the votes and comments so far. Please keep them coming. I really need to guage interest before I decide to move forward or not.

BTW, the location would be somehere along Sukhumvit, possibly Soi 49 or Thong Lor in a house with large outside area (would need that for the smoker). Not too far from the BTS.

[GaryB1263]

So far every one of these Southern Style Barbecue places here in Pattaya or Jomtien have gone bust

Hope your feeling lucky

What style is Lone Star? Honest question.

[bigbadthaijohn]

Texas is the Lone Star state. So Lone Star is Texas BBQ. But I don't know which Texas BBQ.

Within Texas, though, there are 4 separate sub-styles: East Texas (marinated in a sweet, tomato-based sauce), Central Texas (rubbed with spices and cooked over indirect heat from pecan or oak wood), West Texas (cooked over direct heat from mesquite wood giving it a somewhat bitter taste) and South Texas (features thick, molasses-like sauces that keep the meat very moist).

Then there's "barbacoa", which is different still (traditionally prepared in a hole in the ground which is covered with leaves and uses goat or mutton).

[bigbadthaijohn]

So far every one of these Southern Style Barbecue places here in Pattaya or Jomtien have gone bust

Hope your feeling lucky

What style is Lone Star? Honest question.

Sorry, you meant the Lone Star restaurant in Pattaya? I misunderstood.

HonestIy, I haven't been there, but I just looked at their menu. I would find it unlikely that the owners are from Texas. Their "Texas BBQ Feast" includes pulled pork and sliced smoked pork tenderloin. That is definitely not Texas style. They say their ribs are St. Louis style. They have pan-fried ribs "cooked to an old Italian recipe", which has nothing to do with BBQ.

And where they talk about booking the cantina upstairs for parties, they call the upstairs "the first floor", which is the British way to say it. An American would say "the second floor".

Don't get me wrong, I am not in any way saying their food isn't great. Like I said, I haven't tried it. All I'm saying is that they don't seem to serve one particular style. They seem to use a few different ones. Plus, they focus on Tex-Mex, which has nothing to do with BBQ. (I do miss a really good plate of fajitas sometimes, though)

[bkkjames]

My 2 cents:

Focus on the food first, decor last. Just keep it clean and dumb down the menu for your staff. Location is important as always but Roadhouse springs to mind if one thinks that it's Sukhumvit or bust.

Did you say beef? When do you open?

[boike]

In pattaya I use pastramionryethailand.com

https://www.facebook.com/pastramionryethailand

Maybe you can talk to them.

It's very good but they started with a delivery service and will have a sit in place next month.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[bigbadthaijohn]

Hi Boike - Are you sure you're posting to the right topic? I think you might want the one on the price of corned beef. This is about BBQ. Thanks.

In pattaya I use pastramionryethailand.com

https://www.facebook.com/pastramionryethailand

Maybe you can talk to them.

It's very good but they started with a delivery service and will have a sit in place next month.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[bigbadthaijohn]

Couldn't agree more about food over decor. I'm one of the people that, as long as a place doesn't look dirty, if the food is interesting and price reasonable, I'll try any place once. And if the food is good, atmosphere friendly, I'll be back.

One of the great advantages in terms of running a BBQ place is that you really can't get much more simple for the staff. Nothing complicated about good BBQ.

You're right about location, within reason. I have a friend who opened up a place out on Rama 9. He couldn't overcome the distance, which is a total shame because the food was terrific.

My 2 cents:

Focus on the food first, decor last. Just keep it clean and dumb down the menu for your staff. Location is important as always but Roadhouse springs to mind if one thinks that it's Sukhumvit or bust.

Did you say beef? When do you open?

[BigBadNIN]

I just moved here 2 weeks ago from Kansas City so my fingers are crossed that it works out for you. I would also like to request adding burnt ends to the menu if you get that far along in the process.

Just curious. Would you have servers for a traditional sit-down place or more of a counter where you pay at one end and pick up your food at the other? You could save a lot of money not needing as much staff with a seat yourself style.

Good luck!

[bigbadthaijohn]

Most likely, place orders at the counter, then have a seat and runners will bring it out to you. But a lot would depend on the physical layout of the location we chose.

I'm with you on the burnt ends! As far as I'm concerned, one of the best parts. So much great flavor. I've never understood why anyone would just toss that part away. Makes no sense.

[boike]

Hi Boike - Are you sure you're posting to the right topic? I think you might want the one on the price of corned beef. This is about BBQ. Thanks.

In pattaya I use pastramionryethailand.com

https://www.facebook.com/pastramionryethailand

Maybe you can talk to them.

It's very good but they started with a delivery service and will have a sit in place next month.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

Thought you could talk to them about things in general like suppliers etc, my mistake

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[bigbadthaijohn]

Ok. I appreciate the input. Just wasn't sure if it was meant for me.

If things move ahead, I'll definitely contact them and see if we could be of any help to each other.

Thanks

Hi Boike - Are you sure you're posting to the right topic? I think you might want the one on the price of corned beef. This is about BBQ. Thanks.

In pattaya I use pastramionryethailand.com

https://www.facebook.com/pastramionryethailand

Maybe you can talk to them.

It's very good but they started with a delivery service and will have a sit in place next month.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

Thought you could talk to them about things in general like suppliers etc, my mistake

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[Ulysses G.]

So far every one of these Southern Style Barbecue places here in Pattaya or Jomtien have gone bust

I've never found one that was more than very mediocre in Thailand, but I have found a regular restaurant with good ribs or chicken from time. I'm not sure why Western places that specialize in BBQ never seem to get it right here.

[bonobo]

I brought a New Braunfels smoker with me to Thailand, and if I do say so myself, my pork ribs, brisket, and beer-butt chicken are pretty good, so I wouldn't be driving in to the Suk for that. However, having been stationed twice at Camp Lejeune, I would absolutely make the drive in for pulled pork. I love it and miss it. My Thai wife would probably force me to take her once a week as that is one of her favorite western foods.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

A few comments: Lone Star does not serve "Texas BBQ." I can't say anything good about the "BBQ" in the place, so I will not say anything more. Walk into virtually any smoked BBQ place in Texas and here is what is on the menu: beef brisket, smoked sausage (nothing like British crap ribs ) , smoked ham (not pulled pork like in the Carolinas), pork ribs, potato salad, beans, slice of bread, jalapeno pepper, some cobbler (e.g. apricot) and iced tea/cokes. The sauce is almost always tomato based (many varieties), not vinegar/mustard like in other areas of the USA. A huge problem with smoked BBQ in Thailand is the crazy price of beef brisket (down then way up). A related problem is the quality of the brisket--especially meat from Thai cattle. There is almost no fat, which makes the brisket way too dry. Nobody makes good beef brisket in either Bangkok or Pattaya-Jomtien, and I have tried them all. I have also never had decent smoked sausage or pulled pork. People focus on pork ribs because you can find decent quality ribs here at a decent price. It would not be that hard to make "pulled pork" but nobody seems to know how to do it over here (always too dry w/ virtually no smoky flavour). One thing I miss is a decent chopped beef brisket sandwich. Good luck!

[rucus7]

I built my own smoker. I have had my best success consistently with pulled pork. For me pulled pork is almost impossible to make a bad batch. Anywhere from 12 to 17 hours. Brisket on the other hand is hit or miss . Mainly miss. However my brisket is superior to the road house, which says a lot.

I agree about the mustard based sauce for pulled pork. I also agree whole heartily with the poster that said the food is much more important than the ambiance, forget the wagon wheels and saddles.

Starting a business in Thailand can be a major challenge. I have no idea what the market would be good American BBQ. Overhead on Sukhumvit could be prohibitive.

Best of luck in your endevor.

[GaryB1263]

A few comments: Lone Star does not serve "Texas BBQ." I can't say anything good about the "BBQ" in the place, so I will not say anything more. Walk into virtually any smoked BBQ place in Texas and here is what is on the menu: beef brisket, smoked sausage (nothing like British crap ribs ) , smoked ham (not pulled pork like in the Carolinas), pork ribs, potato salad, beans, slice of bread, jalapeno pepper, some cobbler (e.g. apricot) and iced tea/cokes. The sauce is almost always tomato based (many varieties), not vinegar/mustard like in other areas of the USA. A huge problem with smoked BBQ in Thailand is the crazy price of beef brisket (down then way up). A related problem is the quality of the brisket--especially meat from Thai cattle. There is almost no fat, which makes the brisket way too dry. Nobody makes good beef brisket in either Bangkok or Pattaya-Jomtien, and I have tried them all. I have also never had decent smoked sausage or pulled pork. People focus on pork ribs because you can find decent quality ribs here at a decent price. It would not be that hard to make "pulled pork" but nobody seems to know how to do it over here (always too dry w/ virtually no smoky flavour). One thing I miss is a decent chopped beef brisket sandwich. Good luck!

Agreed. Lone Star is edible for me but I am not from Texas. I would love to have a smoked sausage sandwich right now.

What type of American Indian is your avatar?

[bigbadthaijohn]

Actually, The Bagel Cafe made a terrific South Carolina pulled pork, if I do say so myself (I was the owner, but not any more ).

A few comments: Lone Star does not serve "Texas BBQ." I can't say anything good about the "BBQ" in the place, so I will not say anything more. Walk into virtually any smoked BBQ place in Texas and here is what is on the menu: beef brisket, smoked sausage (nothing like British crap ribs ) , smoked ham (not pulled pork like in the Carolinas), pork ribs, potato salad, beans, slice of bread, jalapeno pepper, some cobbler (e.g. apricot) and iced tea/cokes. The sauce is almost always tomato based (many varieties), not vinegar/mustard like in other areas of the USA. A huge problem with smoked BBQ in Thailand is the crazy price of beef brisket (down then way up). A related problem is the quality of the brisket--especially meat from Thai cattle. There is almost no fat, which makes the brisket way too dry. Nobody makes good beef brisket in either Bangkok or Pattaya-Jomtien, and I have tried them all. I have also never had decent smoked sausage or pulled pork. People focus on pork ribs because you can find decent quality ribs here at a decent price. It would not be that hard to make "pulled pork" but nobody seems to know how to do it over here (always too dry w/ virtually no smoky flavour). One thing I miss is a decent chopped beef brisket sandwich. Good luck!

[Awohalitsiktoli]

A few comments: Lone Star does not serve "Texas BBQ." I can't say anything good about the "BBQ" in the place, so I will not say anything more. Walk into virtually any smoked BBQ place in Texas and here is what is on the menu: beef brisket, smoked sausage (nothing like British crap ribs ) , smoked ham (not pulled pork like in the Carolinas), pork ribs, potato salad, beans, slice of bread, jalapeno pepper, some cobbler (e.g. apricot) and iced tea/cokes. The sauce is almost always tomato based (many varieties), not vinegar/mustard like in other areas of the USA. A huge problem with smoked BBQ in Thailand is the crazy price of beef brisket (down then way up). A related problem is the quality of the brisket--especially meat from Thai cattle. There is almost no fat, which makes the brisket way too dry. Nobody makes good beef brisket in either Bangkok or Pattaya-Jomtien, and I have tried them all. I have also never had decent smoked sausage or pulled pork. People focus on pork ribs because you can find decent quality ribs here at a decent price. It would not be that hard to make "pulled pork" but nobody seems to know how to do it over here (always too dry w/ virtually no smoky flavour). One thing I miss is a decent chopped beef brisket sandwich. Good luck!

Agreed. Lone Star is edible for me but I am not from Texas. I would love to have a smoked sausage sandwich right now.

What type of American Indian is your avatar?

To a couple of the posters: 1) search Google for the legend of crow head to find out about the Indian in my avatar (same Indian that Johnny Depp copied for his Tonto character in the movie The Lone Ranger)....it was actually done by an artist; 2) I am sure the pulled pork at the Bagel Cafe was good, but I never tried it and never heard of the place (sorry). As far as the market goes, if the OP makes it, will they come? I sure will try the place. Real smoked BBQ is some of the best food on the planet, but that is my opinion. Will Thais and Russians it it? That might be the essential question. Whatever, good luck!

[rgs2001uk]

I dont doubt the OPs ability to cook, I dont doubt the quality of what he would serve up.

Two words spring to mind, Los Cabos.

I fear the rent would kill him, I doubt he would have the numbers turning up on a regular basis to make this viable.

As noted by another poster, there are other options than Suk, whats his target audience?

[bigbadthaijohn]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I don't have my heart set on Sukhumvit, although it would be my first choice if I could find the right situation. I will of course shop around. However, I will also say that there are deals to be found in the sukhumvit area if you are willing to search.

Y'all are right that rents can kill a business, but the wrong location can kill a restaurant, too. A balance must be found.

I dont doubt the OPs ability to cook, I dont doubt the quality of what he would serve up.

Two words spring to mind, Los Cabos.

I fear the rent would kill him, I doubt he would have the numbers turning up on a regular basis to make this viable.

As noted by another poster, there are other options than Suk, whats his target audience?

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^^,

the wrong location can kill a business, yet again two words spring to mind, Chocloate Ville, located in the ass end of nowhere in Bkk, yet the masses flock there in their droves.

I wish you well in your venture, I am waiting to eat your products.

Sorry to say have seen it all before, on these 3 years leases, the landowner gives a sweet deal to get you in.

Then kicks you out and tries to copy your business.

Best of luck.

[bigbadthaijohn]

Yes, I've seen that many times also. The only thing I'll say about it is that the landlord tries to copy the business. But in the case of restaurants, they never actually know what they're doing and it usually comes back to bite them in the rear end. Serves them right.

^^^^^^,

the wrong location can kill a business, yet again two words spring to mind, Chocloate Ville, located in the ass end of nowhere in Bkk, yet the masses flock there in their droves.

I wish you well in your venture, I am waiting to eat your products.

Sorry to say have seen it all before, on these 3 years leases, the landowner gives a sweet deal to get you in.

Then kicks you out and tries to copy your business.

Best of luck.